BS: Wall Street Protesters...

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 02:50 PM

Songwronger is out to lunch on this issue. Fagettabowtit.

Good for you, Stringsinger. You are right that the OWS people need support and encouragement. Old adage in the military: it takes nine soldiers to keep one in the field.

IMO, the best way to deal with the chain-yankers is to

1) briefly refute them (they ain't gonna read what we write anyway)

2) and then ignore them

Dammit, we are right in supporting OWS. Those who don't are

1) wrong

2) not informed

We still live in a world that watches reruns of the integration movement and wonders what they did wrong that allowed good laws to pass. Sheesh.

The crap about Soros and Nazis: I got ten bucks that says most people would have played ball. Either that or Auschwitz.

I read the 'article' and visited the site. I left a message on the site that likely won't be printed. (Misspelled congress as congree.)

Anyway, if that's where this guy is getting his info from, it's no wonder to me that the elevator is only going up a floor and a half.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 02:23 PM

Songwronger's faith in the veracity of what he finds on Google is quite touching, but by searching Google, one can ALSO find "proof" for the notion that the earth is hollow and that we are ruled by a race of reptilians who evolved into super-intelligent beings from dinosaurs that survived the effects of the meteor impact 65,000,000 years ago by taking refuge in giant caverns and who now control us without our knowledge.

Web sites on Google are sort of like verses in the Bible. A critical survey shows that they are varied and sufficiently contradictory that one can "prove" anything by carefully selecting the sites/verses that support one's position.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 02:07 PM

"How come black folks aren't part of OWS?" is the latest crap to come out of the right..

So much for that MythTeology... This link alone shoots down that BIG LIE in flames...

Thanks for your link, Strings...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:53 PM

Occupy Atlanta

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:45 PM

I been playing drums at the rallies... Hey, it's acoustic but good and noisy...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:36 PM

We were down at Occupy Atlanta on Monday singing peace, justice and labor songs.
No amplification, just two of us and the traditional Pete Seeger style banjo.

We had some impact. It's so important for unamplified singers to go down to your Occupy and support the people there.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:17 PM

Come on, Lox... Don't be that way... The right loves George Soros... He is their favorite boogie man... The reality that the Kochs outspend him 100 to 1 doesn't matter to them... He's all they have now that they used lies to strip Acorn... If Soros died tomorrow the right would go into a deep, deep depression...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 01:06 PM

Songwronger,

I thought you were trying to prove the link between Soros and OWS?

Your "article" doesn't mention adbusters once, let alone OWS.


You say:

"Soros has to be brought down with the Koch's, right? If that can't be accepted, then OWS is indeed partisan. "

You seem to have ignored my answer before that OWS does not favour Soros but has a problem with corporatocracy (government by corporations) taking over from democracy (government by people).


OWS doesn't care if the corporatocracy is run by Soros, the Kochs or Ronald McDonald - they are against corporatocracy and pro democracy.

Got it yet?


Besides which, as has been noted, the "artcle" you referred to isn't an article, it is an opinion on an ultra right wing blog withh no facts to back it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 09:04 AM

From an article about George Soros:

CORRECTION: From a hodge-podge of unsubstantiated rants posted on a right-wing blog hosted by a site dedicated to "Make[ing] us Better Informed to Counteract the Radical Revolution".

Gimmie shelter.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 10:12 PM

Good analogy, brucie... Yeah, I get the heck outta what you are saying...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:48 PM

Those of you who support OWS and who do not know about the tactics used by the Sioux to win the battle at the Little Big Horn better check some reliable sources and read up on it, because the same thing is happening to you here, imo.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:30 PM

You got it, Greg... The right wing has hundreds of paid blogger son their payrolls and their only job is to fuck with people by speading as many lies and propaganda as possible over the internet... But the right wing is also the corporations (not who) that have the BIG $$$ to spend on this kinda stuff... The left doesn't have the BIG $$$...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:27 PM

From an article about George Soros:

George Schwartz was born in Hungary in 1930 — not the luckiest time and place to be born a Jew.

George's father Theodore tried to change the family's fortunes by changing their name to something less Jewish-sounding. It didn't help. And soon war came.

When the Nazis took total control of Hungary in 1944, the Holocaust followed. In two months, 440,000 Hungarian Jews were deported to death camps.

To survive, George, then a teenager, collaborated with the Nazis.

First he worked for the Judenrat. That was the Jewish council set up by the Nazis to do their dirty work for them. Instead of the Nazis rounding up Jews every day for the trains, they delegated that murderous task to Jews who were willing to do it to survive another day at the expense of their neighbours.

Theodore hatched a better plan for his son. He bribed a non-Jewish official at the agriculture ministry to let George live with him. George helped the official confiscate property from Jews.

By collaborating with the Nazis, George survived the Holocaust. He turned on other Jews to spare himself.

George moved to London after the war and then to New York, where he became a stockbroker. He's rich now. Forbes magazine says he's the 35th richest man in the world. Maybe you've heard of him. He goes by the name his father invented: George Soros.

How does Soros feel about what he did as a teenager? Has it kept him up at night?

Steve Kroft of 60 Minutes asked him that. Was it difficult? "Not at all," Soros answered.

"No feeling of guilt?" asked Kroft. "No," said Soros. "There was no sense that I shouldn't be there. If I wasn't doing it, somebody else would be taking it away anyhow. Whether I was there or not. So I had no sense of guilt."

A Nazi would steal the Jews' property anyways. So why not him?

That moral hollowness has shaped Soros' life. He's a rabid critic of capitalism, but in 1992 when he saw a chance, he speculated against the British pound, causing it to crash, devastating retirement savings for millions of Britons. Soros pocketed $1.1 billion for himself. If he didn't do it, someone else would, right?

http://itmakessenseblog.com/2011/01/28/george-soros-says-he-feels-no-remorse-for-collaborating-with-nazis-during-wwii-to-send-hi

I don't like the Koch bros, but I don't like Soros either. Right now he's trying to destory the European Union. Millions will die if he succeeds.

See...this is what OWS is supposed to be about. Soros has to be brought down with the Koch's, right? If that can't be accepted, then OWS is indeed partisan.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:22 PM

There's a great new site called google, where you could type in, say, "Soros adbusters Tides" and learn all kinds of things.

Hot Damn! I read it on the Internet so it MUST be true!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:21 PM

Well, as an OWSer, I come from a Green Party background... Okay, I did vote for Obama "hoping" he would step to the plate against the corportists... He hasn't... Is he better than anyone the Repubns have in the running??? Yeah, he is... Is he going to take on the systemic problems that corporate America has created??? No...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:19 PM

And as for google,

did you not read this in my post ... the one you were 'responding' to ...

"2. The best you can find online to support your view is a few pieces talking about 'possible' 'indirect' links between soros and adbusters."

There's nothing of any substance, let alone significance.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:15 PM

I detect the misappprehension that OWS likes Obama and the democrats.

This is a mistake.

OWS supports no political party.

It criticizes all political parties for being stooges of billionaires.

So post pictures of Obama in silicon Valley - thats exactly what OWS is attacking.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 09:02 PM

No, soros and kochs are NOT the same beast... The Kochs are spending 100X more in elections than is soros... There ahs already been a link here on this thread that I think TIA (maybe it was someone else) that has the figures...

Just because you righties want to make soros a boogie man it isn't based on facts... It's mythology... In other words... It's a lie...

Check out reality, wrongster!!!

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 08:54 PM

The link was to a piece about Lerner, not about Soros.

There's a great new site called google, where you could type in, say, "Soros adbusters Tides" and learn all kinds of things. That's Google, with two Os.

Koch/Soros. Same beast. Right wing, left. Corral the conservatives with the Tea Party, corral the liberals with OWS. Don't let them off the reservation.

So, do I need to post my pictures again of Obama's party with the Silicon Valley moguls, where he thanked them for his new bloodless warfare system after Egypt? The CIA can now foment revolution almost anywhere it wants with psyops and Twitter. But fortunately the OWS people seem aware of this. CIA man Assange (of Wikileaks notoriety) received a lukewarm reception at one of the OWS events. The way the Twitter thing works is first Wikileaks releases some embarrassing "classified" stuff about the target government, then later Obama's CIA starts a "spontaneous uprising of youth" with Twitter.

Again, use that new Google thing to piece all this together.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 08:41 PM

Hundreds of millions$$$$ from the Koch brothers, health insurance companies, FreedomWorks bought the Tea Party and own the deed... To date, $300,000 in donations to OWS...

Tell the truth, wrong-man...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 08:39 PM

1. The article you posted mentions the word "soros" exactly 0 times.

2. The best you can find online to support your view is a few pieces talking about 'possible' 'indirect' links between soros and adbusters.

3. If anyone wants to try and put together a convincing argument that the movements in Greece, Egypt, Hong Kong etc were orchestrated by an anti capitalist publication in America, they are free to try, but they may find it hard.

4. The idea that a billionaire capitalist would encourage a Mass movement aimed specifically at reducing the power of billionaire capitalists is clearly nonsense anyway - typical right wing audacity, intended to bog the debate down in spurious bull****, masqueradiing as serious commentary.

The story of these 'links' is not worth any attention, nor the alleged 'implications' (which are what anyway?)

No story folks!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 08:24 PM

Hmm. Occupy Wall Street was the brainchild of Adbusters, an anti-consumerist magazine based in Vancouver, British Columbia. Last July they declared that on September 17, 2011 they would begin the protest. Adbusters is partly financed by multi-billionaire George Soros' Tides Foundation.

Several labor unions are involved in the OWS protests. One of them is the Service Employees International Union (SEIU). Former SEIU official Stephen Lerner spoke last March about bringing down the stock market and destabilizing the nation... Read it for yourself.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/6808-former-union-official-exposes-plot-to-collapse-us-economy

OWS is far from spontaneous and leaderless and unorchestrated and all that. Soros. You don't get much more establishment than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 07:32 PM

You been "wronged", Richard...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 06:36 PM

Oops.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 06:28 PM

500! I never had one before!

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Songwronger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 06:23 PM

Well since I'm here, 500.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 05:48 PM

Yeah, when you think about the cost of replacing a blown engine in a 15 year old Honda then 1/2 of American families are one blown engine away from poverty...

I agree with Strings... OWS will "change the system" because the system has become badly corrupted by the crooks...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 05:46 PM

Would be for the "scam-ees" to complain, one would think- 'cept they're too goddamn stupid & they still love her. No facts need apply.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 05:14 PM

The mentiion of campaign contributions brings up a matter that may merit a closer look.

When Sarah Palin leapt into national prominence as a Vice Presidential candidate, one of the first things she did with the campaign contributions was spend about $150,000 on a new wardrobe.

Then she gallivants all over the country, does television interviews, provides vast quantities of material for comedians like Tina Fay, and generally gets her ego stroked.

She quits her regular job (Governor of Alaska) to concentrate more on the presidential election, which leads to more campaign contributions (from people more bewildered than she is)—then she withdraws from the race!

None of the contributed money is going to where the contributors intended.

Isn't that what is generally known as a scam?

Just curious. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 02:13 PM

No private money in elections.
Public financing.
Fixed amount, then that's it.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Amos
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 01:52 PM

$26000 a year would be plenty if gas were still 50 cents a gallon and bread was 30 cents a loaf.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 01:43 PM

Well, for starters, it would be nice to get 60 million people above the poverty line, no?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 01:24 PM

Just what do you mean by "change the system"?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 11:25 AM

The power of OWS is that it doesn't embrace a single soundbyte issue for the media.
It is powerful and will change the system and bring democracy back to America because
that's what Americans (overwhelming majority of them) want.

"Politicians hear our thunder. Get off the track or you'll fall under!"

People's Train, the Occupation.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Lox
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 06:03 AM

Surprise surprise - Melanie Philips of the Mail inventing crap about those getting more attention than her.

How sad.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 24 Oct 11 - 03:48 AM

I see the great unwashed have decided to block the path of those who wish to follow their faith. Tramps, send in the army and hose the bastards off the streets and stop their benefits.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2052650/MELANIE-PHILLIPS-Make-mistake-disillusionment-entire-political-class-blame-St-

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 03:57 PM

I hate to say it but if the OWS movement doesn't bust up Boss Hog's ballgame then the US is well on it's way to becoming a failed state...

1/2 of American families now live under $26,000 a year...

The government's "official" poverty threshold for a family of 4 is $22,400 a year...

This is a formula for not just a revolution but a violent one at that...

The righties think this a a big joke...

Yeah, haha...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 03:01 PM

Dick, I disagree. I think the key to a 'fairer' Senate would be a healthy number of Independents. At least enough to make the defeat of bad bills possible. I think neither Dems or Repubs should have the ability to get stuff through all by themselves. Imagine a Senate with a 40/40/20 split. Yes, it would slow things a bit, but that's not a bad idea. It would force bills to be debated and restructured. There has been altogether too much pushed through with 'attachments' or 'riders' that make for terrible precedent and even worse law. If I voted in your country, I would not vote for anyone aligned with either main party--hell, they were and are the parties that have brought the USA to the present state it's in. And it's ugly, despised and/or mistrusted around the world, hated (as it is) by millions of its own citizens.

I would hope independents would have the balls to tell lobbyists for Wall Street "You have five minutes of my time, and the clock starts now." It might begin to change a few things. But give people what they have had all along, however cleverly disguised, and your country will fall because Americans themselves will no longer 'believe' in their elected reps. OWS no longer do, and imo they are just the beginning of a real grassroots movement that will rock the foundations of your democracy. I think your founding fathers would be proud.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 02:58 PM

"Micromanage?'

Trying to see that people who otherwise couldn't afford it can get decent medical care is hardly "micromanaging."

Wanting to cut Social Security and Medicare, especially when some very wealthy people are paying no taxes at all, and are, in fact, getting hefty bonuses for such things as unethical business practices and laying people off their jobs, on the other hand, most definitly IS.

Which might just have something to do with Occupy Wall Street.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 02:45 PM

Just something to think about...

In 2006, with the House and Senate in Republican control, they (total for both houses) introduced 2759 pieces of legislation.

After the Democrats won the Trifecta of House, Senate and presidency in the 2008 election, Ried and Pelosi introduced 9071 pieces of legislation in 2009 including ObamaCare which had nearly 3000 pages in that one bill!

Yes millions of pages of legislation to micromanage every aspect of our lives.

No wonder the country went into apoplexy.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 02:05 PM

Thanks for the correction, pdq. I was writing that early this morning and must have been looking at old data. From my perspective, it then makes things un-doable in the Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: pdq
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 01:33 PM

Senate: at present, 57 Dems, 41 Repubs, 2 Inds. Of those seats, 23 Dems are up for re-election and 10 Repubs are up for re-election. ~ GUEST,999

Actually, that would have been the count ia a past Congress after Scott Brown unexpectedly took the Kennedy Seat away, reducing the Democrat's 60-vote fillibuster-proof majority to 59.

Current count is 51 Democrat and 47 Republican, with Lieberman and Sanders ostensibly independents, but they meet, caucus and vote with the Democrats. They were both labled Senate Democrats at one time.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 11:39 AM

Inds ain't worth much when it comes to getting things done. If the TEa Party can control the GOP nomination process to the point that Perry is too liberal when it comes to immigration an Cain is threatened because of hi "liberal waffling about abortion in cases of rape and incest, the pattern for taking over a party is pretty well established.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 08:12 AM

As long as the corporation have complete control of the language we use to discuss our dilemma and complete control of the media by which it distributes misinfomation voting will only give us SSDD...

Garbage in = garbage out...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 03:14 AM

Suppose you're right, Dick. Let's look at the picture.

There will be three 'sets' of elections for 2012's 'new' federal government.

1) President: Some Repub or Obama.

2) Senate: at present, 57 Dems, 41 Repubs, 2 Inds. Of those seats, 23 Dems are up for re-election and 10 Repubs are up for re-election.

Just suppose every contested seat could be filled with an Ind. The Senate would then look like this: 35 Inds, 34 Repubs and 31 Dems. There might be a workable Senate. However, I don't see that happening anytime soon. Unless people are as thoroughly fed up with Senators as OWS people seem to be, we can expect about the same numbers as exist at present.

3) House: At present, 242 Repubs, 193 Dems. Unless there is some fancy footwork, what's gonna change? How can the Repubs be caused to lose over 24 seats?

##############################################

Looks like the rocket launcher is gonna fizzle unless the power of the Senate can be broken. And who's gonna put cash behind independents, and if no one does, what's really gonna change? And if Wall Street does, it's just more same ol same ol and still nothing changes. IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Oct 11 - 12:55 AM

The rocket launcher of politics is the organized voting bloc.

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 11:36 PM

Well, gn-ze... Two choices... Let the rich continue playin' "Deliverance" with *US* or not...

Your pick...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: gnu
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 11:06 PM

Many are tired Bobert... gotta get big money outta governing... just one problem... big money pays and big money says... and there ain't nuthin you or I can do about it short of using force and that ain't viable is it?

Protest all ya want but what's it really gonna do? The rich use cruise missiles. I gotta a shotgun. Yer welcome to it. But I just don't see it makin any difference.

Maybe a rocket launcher?

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 10:25 PM

Seems that everyone who is threatened by OWS wants details...

Hey, the details are for Congressional staffers...

End the wars and tax the rich...

Income inequality...

Corrupt electoral system...

I mean, this ain't all that tough...

I'm tired... I was the "drummer boy" today and I drummed and drummed and I'm tired...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Wall Street Protesters...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 22 Oct 11 - 10:16 AM

Guest 999,

It's important to connect the dots. You are right. Naturally, the investors don't care about the American public. They wouldn't care about the stolen money in Iraq either.

I don't completely buy the theory that the effects of the war ended the great depression by itself. Roosevelt's policies in place had a lot to do with what followed.

One proof for this is that the US has conducted at least three wars and is still sliding
into a depression. One reason is that the country doesn't support these wars. There are holdouts from the 1940's who remember the so-called Great War and have a fantasy about it returning to the old days when life for them was less complex. Most Americans according to polls don't think the US incursions are doing much good.

This is another reason why people are in the streets. They are asked to pay for useless wars so that GE and other contractors can make money for their greedy CEO's.

You say it's business as usual but I say it's sociopathy.