The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 19 Mar 07 - 07:33 AM

Azizi wrote, "Also, I remember reading somewhere that there Saint Nicholas {Santa Claus} has a Black helper who brings bad children stones instead of toys."

The story is from German and Austrian folklore. Saint Nick's assistant is called Krampus (or sometimes Grampus, although Grampus is also the name for a killer whale) and he leaves lumps of black coal for little boys and girls who have been naughty. The whole scenario is to teach children about the Final Judgement, when God the Father (also a white man with a white beard) will welcome the righteous into Heaven, while the Devil (like Krampus, black as an iron kettle) will take the sinners down below. Coal is the perfect symbol for Hell. It is black, it burns, it comes from deep under the ground, and, if it is the high sulphur variety found throughout Europe, it smells really bad when it burns.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 07:45 PM

I remember there was a traditional rumour that if you weren't good then at Christmas you might get lumps of coal in your stocking instead of presents. But I think it would have been Father Christmas putting them there.

I think in Europe at any rate the use of black in proverbs and epithets - black moods and so forth - don't have anything historically to do with black people, they are tied up with the idea of the dark as being a time of danger, carrying over into the term black.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 06:17 PM

On the color black in Egypt:
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/colors.htm
In ancient Egypt, black (kem) was a symbol of death and of the night. Osiris, the king of the afterlife was called "the black one." One of the few real-life people to be deified, Queen Ahmose-Nefertari was the patroness of the necropolis. She was usually portrayed with black skin, although she was not a negro. Anubis, the god of embalming was shown as a black jackal or dog, even though real jackals and dogs are typically brown.

As black symbolized death it was also a natural symbol of the underworld and so also of resurrection. Unexpectedly perhaps, it could also be symbolic of fertility and even life! The association with life and fertility is likely due to the abundance provided by the dark, black silt of the annually flooding Nile. The color of the silt became emblematic of Egypt itself and the country was called "kemet" (the Black Land) by its people from early antiquity.

Black pigments were created from carbon compounds such as soot, ground charcoal or burnt animal bones.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 06:12 PM

The Virgin Mary in the guise of The Immaculate Conception has her foot on the head of the serpent which represents the devil. The serpent tempted Eve. Rambling here.


Of course, the caduceus shows the snake as healer.

And Medusa, the Gorgon had snake hair and her gaze turned a man to stone. I have a neighbor like that. I always found it interesting that the beautiful Pegasus sprang from the blood of the beheaded Medusa. What the hell was he doing in there?

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 05:28 PM

Q, you asked a question upthread about African beliefs about cats.
While this doesn't address your question about cats changing to human form {or specifically to the form of witches}, here's a quote from http://www.goddessgift.com/goddess-myths/egyptian_goddess_bast.htm

"Egyptian goddess Bast, Goddess of Protection and Pleasure:

"Bast, Egyptian goddess of sensual pleasure, protector of the household, bringer of health, and the guardian saint of firefighters -- she was the original mistress of multi-tasking!

Also called Bastet or Basthet, the goddess Bast is widely known today as the "Cat Goddess". Legend has it that, by day, Bast would ride through the sky with her father, the sun god Ra, his boat pulling the sun through the sky.

Ever watchful, she protected Ra from his enemies. Thus she became known as the Lady of the East, the Goddess of the Rising Sun, and The Sacred and All-Seeing Eye.

But by night, she was a different creature entirely! Bast transformed herself into a cat (renown for its superb night vision) to guard her father from Apep (also known as Apophis), a serpent who was her father's greatest enemy.

Ra's priests burned wax models of the snake and wrote his name with green ink, trying to put a "hex" on him -- but to no avail. Finally, with her cat eyes shining in the dark, she managed to kill the evil serpent.

Credited with killing the vile Apep, the goddess Bast ensured the warmth of the sun would continue to bless the delta of the Nile with fertile soil and abundant crops and was honored as a goddess of fertility.

Because of her all-seeing sacred eye (called the utchat) that magically saw through the dark, Bast is one of the few sun goddesses that is also classified as a moon goddess...with her glowing cat's eye reminding us of the moon that it reflects".

-snip-

Information about Egyptian religion and other cultural components is relevant to a discussion about beliefs and customs in certain other African ethnic groups because-as I'm sure Mudcat members are aware- Egypt is in Africa and because a number of East African, Central African peoples are of Nilotic and not Bantu ethnicity.

For instance: "The main groups of tribes [in Kenya, East Africa] are the Bantu who migrated from western Africa, the Nilotic people who originated from Sudan and the Hamitic group, who were mainly pastoral tribes from Ethiopia and Somalia. The main tribes are Kikuyu (21%), Meru (5%), Kalenjin, Luyha, Luo (14%), Kisii, Kamba, Swahili, Masai, Turkana".
http://www.africaguide.com/country/kenya/culture.htm

-snip-

I've also read that specific West African ethnic groups [Akans ? Yoruba? ]have traditional beliefs that they migrated from Egypt an/or the Sudan. However, I'll have to look for online documentation or other documentation of that at another time.

I recall reading about African & Afro-Caribbean beliefs in cats changing into malevolent beings [not so say that real witches as in wica are malevolent].

However, I'll have to look for those online and off-line resources and post something on that another time.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Bee
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 04:57 PM

The song version I have goes:

Watch that woman shake.
Dancin' with a snake.
Dancin', dancin' all night long,
by the moon-lit, candle-lit voodoo lake.
Dressed in flamin' red,
Dancin' with the dead.
Dancin', dancin' all night long,
with a big red fish held over her head.

Carry on!

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 03:37 PM

Black snakes in North America-
Pilot Black Snake- also called Rat snake and Rattlesnake Pilot. It vibrates its tail like a rattlesnake, but is not venomous. Eats mice, birds, eggs, etc. A constrictor. Up to 8 feet in length.
East coast; Maryland, etc.

Black racer- Canada to Florida. Fast and agressive, up to 6 feet long. Vermin destroyer. Bites, but not poisonous. Often confused with the Pilot Black Snake. It can be tamed, and was one of the snakes sometimes kept by old time grocers to keep down rats and mice.

Lots of myths about both.
In the Sea Islands of South Carolina, there is a story about Buh Rabbit capturing a child-eating black snake (Library of Congress recordings). I heard it some time ago and don't remember the details.
The tale may have come from Africa; In Georgia, Joel Chandler Harris collected the story of "The "Cunning Snake," About an 'Afficky' woman and her child, the child is taken by the snake in revenge because the the woman was taking the snake's eggs. The woman finds the snake, cuts it open, and rescues the child. "Nights with Uncle Remus," 1883.

Some of the snakes called 'black snakes' in Australia, Africa and elsewhere are venomous.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 03:29 PM

Here's more about the snake loa {god} Damballah:

In voudun religions Damballah is considered the loa of life; fertility, and wisdom; He is recognized by the color white or rainbow colors; symbols snake, serpent, lightning.

To appease the loa, songs would also be sung desceibing the qualities, behavioral patterns, and needs, asi in this song sung to Damballah, the snake deity:

He cannot be drown in the water
Papa Damballah, you are a snake,oh!
Why don't you drown?

He cannot be drown in the water
Papa Damballah. you are a snake, oh!
Why don't you drown?
Why don't you drown in the water?

Joseph E. Holloway, editor "Africanism In American Culture" ;Jessie Gaston Mulira} 'The Case of Voodoo In New Orleans', quoting Courlander, "Drum & Hoe", pg 78; {Indiana University press, 1990; p.46}

-snip-

For additional information on loas and voudon, click http://www.swagga.com/voodoo.htm Origins of Voodoo

Here's a brief excerpt of that article:

"Voodoo is a derivative of the world's oldest known religions which have been around in Africa since the beginning of human civilization. Some conservative estimates these civilizations and religions to be over 10 000 years old. This then identify Voodoo as probably the best example of African syncretism in the Americas. Although its essential wisdom originated in different parts of Africa long before the Europeans started the slave trade, the structure of Voodoo, as we know it today, was born in Haiti during the European colonization of Hispaniola. Ironically, it was the enforced immigration of enslaved African from different ethnic groups that provided the circumstances for the development of Voodoo. European colonists thought that by desolating the ethnic groups, these could not come together as a community. However, in the misery of slavery, the transplanted Africans found in their faith a common thread.

The word "voodoo" comes from the West African word "vodun," meaning spirit. This Afro-Caribbean religion mixed practices from many African ethnics groups such as the Fon, the Nago, the Ibos, Dahomeans, Congos, Senegalese, Haussars, Caplaous, Mondungues, Mandinge, Angolese, Libyans, Ethiopians, and the Malgaches...

The serpent figures heavily in the Voodoo faith. The word Voodoo has been translated as "the snake under whose auspices gather all who share the faith". The high priest and/or priestess of the faith (often called Papa or Maman) are the vehicles for the expression of the serpent's power. The supreme deity is Bon Dieu. There are hundreds of spirits called Loa who control nature, health, wealth and happiness of mortals. The Loa form a pantheon of deities that include Damballah, Ezili, Ogu, Agwe, Legba and others. During Voodoo ceremonies these Loa can possess the bodies of the ceremony participants. Loa appear by "possessing" the faithful, who in turn become the Loa, relaying advice, warnings and desires. Voodoo is an animist faith. That is, objects and natural phenomena are believed to possess holy significance, to possess a soul"...

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 03:11 PM

This post is also about snakes, and New Orleans voudon, and traditional African religion...

See this excerpt from a post from the Mudcat thread 'Lyr Req: Voodoo Queen Marie' whose link is provided above:

Subject: Lyr Add: VOODOO QUEEN MARIE (Holy Modal Rounders)
From: GUEST {reggie miles}
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 04:52 AM

chorus-

Watch that woman shake.
She's dancin' with a snake.
Dancin', dancin' all night long,
to the moon-lit, candle-lit voodoo lake.
Dressed in flamin' red,
she's dancin' with the Grateful Dead.
Dancin', dancin' all night long,
with a red rose over head.

-snip-

The voodoo queen probably refers to Marie Laveau. For online information about Marie Laveau, click http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Laveau

The snake probably refers to Damballah. Damballah is "Also known as Da, Dan, Obatala, Danbala, Dumballah, Dumballa and Dan, Damballah Wedo is Dahomean in origin and one of the most revered of African gods. Damballah Wedo, one of the oldest of the ancestors, is the serpent spirit who existed before any other gods to serve Mawu Liza (or Nana-Buluku, the creator).

Damballah Wedo is the loa of peace and purity, the loving father figure who is benevolent and innocent. Da is rather uncommunicative; a loving, quiet presence who does not declare exact messages, but rather radiates a comforting presence that sends a general spirit of optimism. He is the loa of white metal (platinum and silver) who grants riches and sustains the world. Hougnans and mambos in his service dress in white."

http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:x9-xIO9y9CoJ:www.folkart.com/catalog/damballah-wedo_4158354.htm+damballah&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:56 PM

This post is about snakes..

Here's two examples of the snake as a symbol {representation} of the devil:

THE ORIGIN OF THE SNAKE
Up de hill an' down de level!
Up de hill an' down de level!
Granny's puppy treed de Devil.

Puppy howl, an' Devil shake!
Puppy howl, an' Devil shake!
Devil leave, an' dere's yo' snake.

Mash his head; de sun shine bright!
Mash his head; de sun shine bright;
Tail don't die ontel it's night.

Night come on, an' sperits groan!
Night come on, an' sperits groan!
Devil come an' gits his own.

Source: Thomas W. Talley: "Negro Folk Songs, Wise and Otherwise" {Port Washington, N.Y., Kennikat Press, Inc.; 1968, p. 165; originally published,1922,The Macmillan Company}
thread.cfm?threadid=99864

**

"Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Voodoo Queen Marie
From: Stewie - PM
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 09:31 PM

Folks tell fabulous lies
They say the green light shines from her eyes
Say she's the cat in disguise
Say there's horns on her head
Say she's married as well
It's said she married the devil in hell
Turned him into a big black snake
And keeps him under her bed"

thread.cfm?threadid=24033#273277 Lyr Req: Voodoo Queen Marie
{Excerpt}

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:45 PM

Thanks to all who have shared information and remembrances thus far about the cultural meanings of the color black...

I very much appreciate your contributions to this thread.

It's just that I'm on a roll* re: this other subject about snakes...

*whole wheat

But, to show you that I can walk and chew gum at the same time, check out information from these two online sources about color meanings:

Black: Modernity, power, sophistication, formality, elegance, wealth, mystery, style, evil, death, fear, anonymity, anger, sadness, remorse, mourning, unhappiness, mysterious, sex, seriousness, conventionality, rebellion, sorrow, January.

White: Reverence, purity, snow, peace, innocence, cleanliness, simplicity, security, humility, sterility, winter, coldness, clinicism, surrender, cowardice, fearfulness, unimaginative, air, fire, death, hope, Aries, Pisces (star signs), January.
-snip-

[see information about these and other colors at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_Symbolism

**

"SYMBOLISM OF COLOR:
USING COLOR FOR MEANING

Color is considered one of the most useful and powerful design tools you have. People respond to different colors in different ways, and these responses take place on a subconscious, emotional level. In our American culture, black has long been associated with death, while white is believed to signify life and purity. In the Orient, however, white is the traditional color of mourning. In the United States, black has also come to suggest sophistication and formality. Americans generally associate trust an stability with the color blue, while Koreans have this reaction to pink and other pastel colors...
-snip-

For the complete article and links, click
http://www.princetonol.com/groups/iad/lessons/middle/color2.htm

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:36 PM

I just found a song that Jim Dixon posted that compares a woman to a snake.

"Subject: Lyr Add: A BLACK WOMAN IS LIKE A BLACK SNAKE^^
From: Jim Dixon - PM
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 03:29 PM

2. A BLACK WOMAN IS LIKE A BLACK SNAKE
A black woman is like a black snake. She will strike and run.
A black woman is like a black snake. She will strike and run.
If you believe you'll have to hit her, she'll kill you and call it fun,I mean, and call it fun."

thread.cfm?threadid=40621#582152 excerpt

-snip-

But since it's a simile and not a ---whatever the English word is {allegory?}, I think that example would still be listed under
#1 in the meanings given to snakes in songs.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:36 PM

I read somewhere that chimney sweeps had a fertility connotation at one time. (I presume for the blatantly obvious reason.) This would be in England. Don't know if it applied anywhere else.

The Irish would sometimes describe someone as a "black (insert word or insult)". I don't think this has anything to do with race though. The most common use (and it'd be dying out) would be "black protestant" or "black presbeterian". I imagine there'd be a link to blackguard as well. Might support the whole devil thing.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:30 PM

This post is about snakes...

I think that the black snake in "Frog Went-a Courtin" is just a snake. I also think that the black snake in "Old Bill The Rolling Pin" is also just a snake, though "Old Bill, the Rolling Pin" is a coded reference for the White patrollers/vigilantes who were active during the end of African American slavery.

See this excerpt from one of my post in another Mudcat thread:

OLD BILL THE ROLLING PIN

Bessie Jones, Bess Lomax Hawes,"Step It Down" {University of Georgia Press, 1972, p. 208}

Mister Frog went swimming down the lake this morning.
Mister Frog went swimming down the lake this morning.
Mister Frog went swimming down the lake.
But he got swallowed by a big black snake this morning.

Now, Old Bill the Rolling Pin this morning.
Now, Old Bill the Rolling Pin this morning.
Now, Old Bill the Rolling Pin,
He's up the road and back again.
Big eyes and double chin this morning.

-snip-

Mrs Jones say that Old Bill was a "patterroller" and that people made this song up to make fun of him. During slavery, when Negroes were not allowed to leave their home plantation without a pass, "patterollers" were armed guards, hired to patrol the roads at night, enforcing the pass system. This particular 'patteroller' had "big eyes and a double chin", apparently reminding the singers of Mister Frog {the same one who went a-courting and who got "struck by a big black snake"}. The mule,who dances instead of working,is not as extraneous as he may seem either."

thread.cfm?threadid=81179#1486850 Subject: RE: African American Secular Folk Songs

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:23 PM

For those who want to focus on the discussion about the meaning of the color black ...sorry...Of course, you can skip the posts that present information/discuss snakes...

This post is about snakes...

I'd like to amend my 18 Mar 07 - 01:35 PM post that referred to the various meanings of snakes in songs etc. I shouldn't have limited the subject to just black snakes...

My sense is that in the floating verses about a person running through a field, getting their heel bit by a snake {black or otherwise}, and running into a hornet's nest, the snake is a snake {just like there are times when "a cigar is just a cigar".

Another example of a snake being just a snake is this children's rhyme:

Theres a place on mars where the women smoke cigars
Every puff they take is enough to kill a snake
When the snake is dead they put roses on its head
When the roses die . they put diamonds in its eyes
When the diamond break .. they begin to make a cake
When the cake is done ... it'll be 1991

-heather at March 18, 2006
http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

**
However, in this children's rhyme, the snake is a phallic symbol:
I was dreamin of genie
With a ten foor weinie
And I showed to the girl next door.

She though it was a snake
And she hit it with a rake
And now it's only five foor four...

-Cassi at April 17, 2004; http://blog.oftheoctopuses.com/000518.php

**

Of course, a prime example of the snake as a phallic symbol is Blind Lemon Jefferson's Black Snake Moan:

See this excerpt from:

"Subject: Lyr Add: BLACK SNAKE MOAN (Blind Lemon Jefferson)
From: Jim Dixon - PM
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 07:21 PM

BLACK SNAKE MOAN
Blind Lemon Jefferson

Oh-h, ain't got no mama now.
Oh-h, ain't got no mama now.
She told me late last night. "You don't need no mama nohow."

Mm-m, black snake crawlin' in my room.
Mm-m, black snake crawlin' in my room.
Some pretty mama better come and get this black snake soon."

...

Mm-m, what's the matter now?
Mm-m, honey, what's the matter now?
Sugar, what's the matter? Don't like no black snake nohow.

Mm-m, wonder where my black snake gone.
Mm-m, wonder where the black snake gone.
Old black snake mama done run my darlin' home.

[Sung by Blind Lemon Jefferson on the various-artists CD "The Story of the Blues," Columbia Legacy 86334.]

thread.cfm?threadid=43536#1378950


['black snake' here may refer to both 'man' and 'man's penis'].

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 02:03 PM

See this long excerpt from one of my post on the thread.cfm?threadid=78748#1419907
which documents the New Year's tradition that considered [considers?]it to be an omen of good luck to meet up with sooty faced chimney sweep:

"Subject: RE: Padstow Darkie Days
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 04 Mar 05 - 11:53 PM

Here's a bit of information that seems to explain why kissing a chimney sweep was considered lucky.

"A chimney sweep's lucky as lucky can be..."
Many people will be able to sing along with that song from the Walt Disney version of Mary P. Travers' "Mary Poppins," but not as many know that In Germany, Austria, Hungary, and contiguous regions, the chimney sweep is considered a particularly auspicious omen of good luck if you meet with him on New Year's Day.

The postcard shown here is inscribed in Hungarian "Boldog Ujevet" (which, according to reader Marcell Revisnyei, means "Happy New Year"). It was postally used on January 1st, 1938. It is typical of Central and Eastern European New Year's postcards in which a chimney sweep -- often a blond child -- is shown frolicking in the snow, tossing out lucky talismans by the basketful.

The imagery on this card is unusual to American eyes because the slipshod young chimney sweep is not only sprinkling the ground with four-leaf clovers, he is equally generous in his distribution of toxic red and white Amanita muscaria mushrooms. This is not as strange as it seems, however, for while the four-leaf clover is considered lucky throughout Europe and North America, the Amanita muscaria or "gluckpilz" ("lucky mushroom" in German) is deemed fortuitous in Central and Eastern Europe, where there are remnants of respect for its ancient use as a shamanic hallucinogen.

When i asked my mother Lilo Glozer, who was born in Germany, about the chimney sweep as a bringer of New Year's luck, she replied:

New Year's was not celebrated in Germany until the l7th century, according to an old book I have on German folklore, so originally, this took place on Christmas or Saint Nicholas' Day, but anyway, gifts were given on New Year's Day to people who delivered bread or did household chores that were not performed by live-in servants. In exchange, these purveyors of services often handed out little cards with a blessing or good wishes.

Meeting a chimney sweep -- called a Schornsteinfeger or Schlotfeger --at New Year's meant good luck for the year, especially if he would give you his card. However, by the time my sister and I were children, in the 1910s and 1920s, chimney sweeps were sufficiently rare that meeting one at any time of the year was considered lucky.

Chimney sweeps can also be found in the form of silver bracelet charms, small figurines, Good Luck Semi-Sweet Chocolate labels like the one shown here (which also depicts a lucky horseshoe), and even edible mid-winter gifts in which the chimney sweep's body is made of dried prunes.

Other European postcards in my collection show chimney sweeps giving people money bags, riding in toboggans with lucky pigs, and strewing about prodigious amounts of four-leaf clovers and Amanita muscaria mushrooms.

Perhaps i am fingerpainting here, but i see in this sooty New year's mushroom-bringer the folkloric remains of a shamanic Winter Solstice tradition now long lost to history. "

This article is accompanied by a photo here http://www.luckymojo.com/chimneysweep.html

[This hyperlink was given as "Luck and Chimney Sweeps" in my post]

****

This is an example of how historical information found on the Internet can be used to help explain present day customs..

The photo that accompanies this article is of a white faced blond haired boy. It's interesting to note that in this article the chimney sweep was not considered lucky because of a 'sooty face' but because of the good luck charms that he distributed.

Certainly one article is not good research. But if the tradition of the chimney sweep emphasized the distribution of good luck charms more than the 'skin color' of the sweep, how did the color become more dominant as my readings thus far of the modern day customs suggests? Are there other articles that might support a belief that 'black' color itself was good luck? This would be counter to the tradition in the United States, at least, that [for instance] seeing a black cat is bad luck...But am I correct that in financial terms, 'being in the black' is good? And Europe does have Chritian traditions of Black Madonnas..[which may or may not have anything to do with this guising tradition]

In summary, as a result of reading this one article on chimney sweeps, I have a better understanding of the reasons behind the traditional custom of blackening up. The chimney sweep explanation sounds more believable to me than the disguise explanation [which as I understand it from this and other Mudcat threads is that lower class people who were going door to door begging at a particular time [New Years?]used cork to blacken their faces as a means of disguising themselves from their upper class masters. However, it seems possible to me that the black face disguise explanation/customs were grafted onto the older chimney sweep good luck traditions"...

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:57 PM

Forgot to reference the tale of the martin and the jay- Collected by Miss Susan Showers, JAFL vol. 11, no. 40, 1898.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:52 PM

Oh, Black Peter!

That's who I was thinking of. Thanks, patty o'dawes

Here's an excerpt from the link that patty shared:   

..."Often the subject of winter poems and tales, the Companions travel with St. Nicholas or his various equivalents (Father Christmas, Santa Claus), carrying with them a rod (sometimes a stick, bundle of switches or a whip, and in modern times often a broom) and a sack. They are sometimes dressed in black rags, bearing a black face and unruly black hair. In many contemporary portrayals the companions look like dark, sinister, or rustic versions of Nicholas himself, with a similar costume but with a darker color scheme.

Some of the companions take on more monstrous forms, namely in Austria or Bavaria. Krampus and Klaubauf are variously depicted as horned, shaggy, bestial, or demonic. In many depictions the Krampus looks like popular images of the Devil, complete with red skin, cloven hooves, and short horns. They whip everyone that comes on their path.

It is unclear whether the various companions of St. Nicholas are all expressions of a single tradition (likely Knecht Ruprecht), or a conflation of multiple traditions. Various texts, especially those outside the tradition, often treat the companions as variations on a single Knecht Ruprecht tradition.

Traditionally, Knecht Ruprecht would sometimes be portrayed as being Black African, like Zwarte Piet in the Benelux. However, over recent decades this became regarded as offensive by some as Zwarte Piet is the silly helper of Sinterklaas. So, the black on his face is sometimes explained as soot collected as he descends into chimneys"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:46 PM

Thanks for your response to my question, eanjay.

**

So is there another country that has a tradition that Santa Claus has a Black helper? And, if so, does this helper only give out stones or rocks to children who have misbehaved?

I'm trying to get to the root of "black as devil" comment that was posted in that other thread...If white Santa Claus gave presents to the 'good' children, but his Black servant [?] gave something of much lesser value to 'bad' children, then maybe tangentially anyway, this addresses that "the devil is black" meme.

I suppose I should look up images of Satan, and may. But I've
re-focused now on the occurances of images and uses of 'black snake' and other snakes in American culture {including the Caribbean, and South America}.

Btw, historically and currently, are there no accounts of vodoun {voodoo}, santeria, candomble religous songs/chants/practices in Canada?

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:42 PM

This link refers to what I remember above.


It sums it up as I recall, the black colour as we understood was from his down the chimney escapades and he was a man to be avoided. I never knew what a switch was as a kid - but knew I didn't want to see one!

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:41 PM

Black, in folk culture, has many meanings, only some applying to race. Some of the following references to black I found interesting, but not necessarily pertinent.

Pot calling the kettle black- both were heated over open fire in the past, hence both became blackened.

In the old horse operas, the villain wore a black hat, to provide visual distinction from the hero in the pure white Stetson. When these films were made, both characters were white.

A black cat may be a witch. A very old superstition in Europe, but it also was found among slaves. Did they pick it up from whites or is the superstition African as well?

This is digression, but interesting- In South Carolina (late 19th c.), Negros, when speaking of crows and the corn crop, said, "If he come, he no come; if he no come, he come." It meant if the crows came, the corn would not be allowed to grow, and if they did not arrive the corn crop would be all right (JAFL, vol. 8, no. 30, p. 252).

The dark is often treated like black in superstitions. One from Connecticut- Comb your hair after dark, come sorrow to your heart.

The Black String:
A powerful love-charm. It is composed of a strip of skin from the body of a man who has committed suicide for love; "it must be 'peeled from the head to the heel and back without crack or split'." The charm, known in New York, is Irish in derivation (JAFL, 1895).

The Jay-bird and the Martin.
It was once a common belief in the South (both Black and White) that the jay-bird was never to be found on Friday, because he visits Hell on that day. That's a whole nuther tale, but it comes up in the following tale (much abbreviated here) collected from from Virginia Af-Am story-tellers (1890's).
A jay had a nest near to a martin's nest. The jay would steal the martin's eggs when the martin was away. The martin said, "Something is carrying away my eggs. I wish you would notice for me when I am not at home, and I will do the same for you when you are gone off." "I will," said the jay.
The martin goes off, and the jay waited until the martin was in sight, and begins to look around, spotting a crow. "Here he is, out here in the tree," says the jay.
"All right," said the martin; "I will go out there and see him. Come and go, Mrs. Jay."
"No, no, I will watch for another while you are gone."
Mr. and Mrs. Martin go out to see the crow. "Mr. Crow, said Mr. Martin, "Mr. Jay said you were at my house today."
"Where is your house?" asked the crow.
"Yonder, where you see that little round house on the pole."
"I have never been there in my life," said the crow; I will go and see the jay about it."
On a Friday morning the crow goes to see the jay. "Hello," said the crow.
"Mother is not here," said one of the young jays.
"Where is she?" asked the crow.
"She went to carry some grains of sand to hell."
"When she comes, tell her Mr. Crow was here to see here."
When the jay came, the young bird said, "Mother, a big black man has been here to see you."
So the jay moved to another home the next day.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:40 PM

"But I'm curious if other people were raised with the image of the devil as the color black?"

I don't believe it's a current thing, but dates from medieval times. Too bad I don't read Italian, because the guy in this photo of a painting is an example of the type of image I was talking about. The 'black' isn't the brown color of a human being. It's black, like cast iron, as in a pot or kettle.

I'm only speculating, but I think black was associated with evil because it's the complete absence of light, and light is usually seen as Good.

When I grew up, 'black' was a racist thing to call people, because you were essentially saying they were evil because they were dark-skinned.

The meanings of words change though, and people have accepted being called 'black'. I don't have a problem with that, but, some people now object to the use of the word according to its earlier meaning. I DID once have a big argument with a guy once who thought 'black mood', 'black sheep', 'black heart', 'black magic' were all racist uses of the word because he didn't accept they came first and had nothing at all to do with race. Of course, he also insisted the Smurfs were teaching kids devil-worship.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:38 PM

I remember reading the story azizi mentions when I was young, and can even remember the illustrations in the book. At a guess I would have thought it German possibly? I know it wasn't UK/Irish.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:35 PM

I'd like to switch up and turn to the subject of snakes in religion, song, and other art.

There appears to be at least 5 separate meanings for 'black snake' in African American folk songs [or chants}, and other American folk songs:

1. an actual snake
2. a phallic symbol referring to a Black man's penis
3. a man {regardless of race}
4. the devil
5. a loa {African Deity/Force}

I suppose it is possible that more than one meaning can be operative in a specific song. But I'm inclined to think that-with the possible exceptions of #2 and #3-the phrase "black snake" only has one of those 5 meanings in each specific song.

I'll provide some examples of each meaning in subsequent posts to this thread.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:30 PM

I haven't ever heard the Saint Nicholas story you quoted (11.59am) so I don't think it can be part of the British tradition of Christmas.

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:25 PM

Those interested in the topic of early Greco-Roman attitudes regarding Black people may also be interested in these books:

Black Athena Revisited by Mary R. Lefkowitz

Black Athena: The Afroasiatic Roots of Classical Civilization (The Fabrication of Ancient Greece 1785-1985, Volume 1) by Martin Bernal

The Invention of Racism in Classical Antiquity by Benjamin Isaac

Black Women in Antiquity (Journal of African Civilizations ; V. 6) by Ivan Van Sertima

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 01:23 PM

For those interested in the topic of the history of color prejudice, here are two books by Dr. Frank Snowden that books that I found very informative:

Before Color Prejudice: The Ancient View of Blacks
by Frank M. Snowden

and

Blacks in Antiquity: Ethiopians in the Greco-Roman Experience
By Frank Snowden,Professor Emeritus, Department of Classics, Howard University.

The following is a review of "Blacks in Antiquity":

"According to Professor Emeritus Frank M. Snowden Jr., (AB, AM, Ph.D., ) Howard University Classicist Department... the Ethiopians "pioneered" religion, and were key to the origin and propagation of many of the customs which existed in Egypt. The Egyptians, it was argued, were descendants of the Ethiopians. Snowden states that the term Kushites, Nubians, or Ethiopians is to used in much the same way as the modern term "colored", "black, or Negro". "The experiences of Africans who reached the alien shores of Greece and Italy constituted an important chapter in the history of classical antiquity," he writes. "Using evidence from terra cotta figures, paintings, and classical sources like Herodotus and Pliny the Elder, Snowden proves, contrary to our modern assumptions, that Greco-Romans did not view Africans with racial contempt. Many Africans worked in the Roman Empire as musicians, artisans, scholars, and generals as well as slaves, and they were noted as much for their virtue as for their appearance of having a "burnt face" (from which came the Greek name Ethiopian)."

-snip-

Also, see this review of "Before Color Prejudice"
"Further developing the themes he so eloquently outlines in Blacks in Antiquity, Frank M. Snowden Jr. continues his investigations into attitudes towards Africans in the classical civilizations of Rome and Greece. Snowden identifies the African blacks from Egypt, Nubia (the modern Sudan), Ethiopia, and Carthage (Tunisia), discussing their interactions--including intermarriage--with the Greco-Romans. (He also notes that many of the artistic representations of these people resemble present-day African Americans.) From the trade missions of the Egyptian dynasties to their conquest of the Mediterranean and ultimate downfall at the hands of the Romans, Snowden unravels a complex history of cultural exchanges that went on for several millennia in which racial prejudice was not a factor. "There was a clear-cut respect among the Mediterranean peoples for Ethiopians and their way of life," he writes, "and above all, the ancients did not stereotype blacks as primitives defective in religion and culture." --Eugene Holley Jr.

Book Description

In this richly illustrated account of black-white contacts from the Pharaohs to the Caesars, Frank Snowden demonstrates that the ancients did not discriminate against blacks because of their color. For three thousand years Mediterranean whites intermittently came in contact with African blacks in commerce and war, and left a record of these encounters in art and in written documents. The blacks--most commonly known as Kushites, Ethiopians, or Nubians--were redoubtable warriors and commanded the respect of their white adversaries. The overall view of blacks was highly favorable. In science, philosophy, and religion color was not the basis of theories concerning inferior peoples. And early Christianity saw in the black man a dramatic symbol of its catholic mission.

This book sheds light on the reasons for the absence in antiquity of virulent color prejudice and for the difference in attitudes of whites toward blacks in ancient and modern societies."

http://www.amazon.com/Before-Color-Prejudice-Ancient-Blacks/dp/0674063813

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 11:59 AM

Also, I remember reading somewhere that there Saint Nicholas {Santa Claus} has a Black helper who brings bad children stones instead of toys.

Am I correct that this is part of the British tradition of Christmas?

Subject: RE: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 11:45 AM

I'd like to first focus on the cultural meaning of the color 'black'.

Rather than re-post the all of the exchange that I had with Jeri about the song which I shared in my first post to this thread, I refer folks who are interested in reading our entire exchange to the Nashville Students Jubilee Songs thread, particularly the posts that start here.

I believe that the "blackbirds" and "the crow" in that rhyme/song were coded references for Black people. I also believe {but less strongly than my first point} that these lines reveal attitudes about skin color differences among Black people.

Rather than incorrectly or incompletely summarize Jeri's first comment to that thread, I'm taking the liberty to repost it here:

"Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nashville Students Jubilee Songs
From: Jeri - PM
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 07:50 AM

White folks calls you black, but I say not;
Caze de kittle musn' talk about de pot.

This isn't talking about skin color, it's talking about the reason 'black' was a perjorative term. 'Black as the devil' - look at some old artistic portrayals of the devil - he was BLACK. He wasn't a dark shade of 'flesh', he was black as a cast iron pot or kettle. A person can have a black heart or soul, be in a black mood - in that context, it means evil/bad. When I was a kid (early 1960s), I was taught never to refer to someone as 'black'.

I don't believe the adjective, or the song, referred primarily to skin color, but to evil. 'Black' was a bad thing to call a person, because it indicated the darkness of their skin meant they had a 'black', or evil, soul.

Blackbirds and crows are black in color, so they must be evil. After all, they steal corn! I think the song is quite clever. It infers white men steal too, and so are as 'black' as the blackbird and crow.

~~100% opinion~~ "

-snip-

Here's one of the posts that I wrote in response to Jeri's comment:

"Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nashville Students Jubilee Songs
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 17 Mar 07 - 08:23 AM

"'Black' was a bad thing to call a person, because it indicated the darkness of their skin meant they had a 'black', or evil, soul."

-snip-

Maybe.

But when and why was the word 'black' associated with evil or bad?

True, black has been associated with evil for centuries, but it wasn't always so.

've got a copy of a book called "Before Color Consciousness" which includes quotes of early Greeks praising Ethiopians.

I can't find the book as it's packed with other books in some box because of home renovation...I'll have to look for it and posts some quotes later today as I have to go to work soon...

**

When I was a child until I was a young adult, I thought that the devil was always depicted as being the color red or at least wearing red. I don't recall seeing any images of the devil {Satan} wearing black or being black in skin color.

It wasn't until my middle adult years that I read anything about the devil being black in color.

**

In the late 1960s or early 1970s, I recall hearing a poem written by a Black person that listed all the things in our society that were white and considered good-I can't remember the lines but it was things like the Easter bunny, Santa Claus, snow, Ivory soap [100% pure], Jesus [though he wasn't really white}, Cinderella, Rubunzel [let down your golden hair]etc...And then the poem ended with this line:

"White, white, white, white!
No wonder I hate myself."


**

Another quote from Jeri's post:
"A person can have a black heart or soul, be in a black mood - in that context, it means evil/bad."

I'm in a black mood. I have a black heart and I have a black soul. My complexion is black. And as far as I'm concerned, all of this is great!

It's all about context {who says what, when, and how}. "

-snip-

As it turns out, I gave the wrong title for the book that I was referring to.

More on that book later.

But I'm curious if other people were raised with the image of the devil as the color black?

Subject: The Color Black & Snakes in Folk Culture
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 07 - 11:29 AM

I'm interested in presenting information about and discussing with other folks the cultural meanings of the color "black", and the cultural meanings of snake {serpent, dragons} as found in religion, songs, and other art forms.

The meanings of the color black was raised in this recent thread thread.cfm?threadid=99864&messages=22 Lyr Add: Nashville Students Jubilee Songs, particularly as it relates to this song:

THE HATED BLACKBIRD AND CROW
Dat Blackbird say unto de Crow:
"Dat's why de white folks hate us so;
For ever since old Adam wus born,
It's been our rule to gedder green corn."

Dat Blackbird say unto de Crow:
"If you's not black, den I don't know.
White folks calls you black, but I say not;
Caze de kittle musn' talk about de pot."

Source: Thomas W. Talley: "Negro Folk Songs, Wise and Otherwise" {Port Washington, N.Y., Kennikat Press, Inc.; 1968, p. 183; originally published,1922,The Macmillan Company}
-snip-

I disagreed with another poster's interpretation of that song, but agree with her that "the debate would (I believe) be better in its own thread" {except that I'd substitute the word "discussion" or the word "conversation" for the word "debate"}.

The discussion of the cultural meanings of snakes was also raised in that same thread, as that thread included the floating line about a person being bitten on the heel by a black snake.

In July 2006, I started the Mudcat thread Songs & Rhymes That Mention Snakes thread.cfm?threadid=92940. However, that thread doesn't seem to me to be an appropriate place to present information and to exchange conversation about the cultural meaning of snakes {and serpents, and dragons}.

Why are both of these topics in the same thread? Well, truth be told, I couldn't decide which one I most wanted to focus upon. But the more I thought about it, the more I felt that aspects of both of these topics were or at least could be connected, by me, if not by any one else :o}.

Please join me in presenting information and discussing these topics.

Thanks in advance for your participation in this thread!

Azizi