BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 13 Jun 08 - 02:59 AM

As a poet Rod McKuen is marginally more interesting than WalkaboutsVerse.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: EBarnacle
Date: 12 Jun 08 - 12:23 PM

My objection to Warhol is not his choice of subject. Much of his work is definitely archetypical. My question is: Is it art? This is the same question as our original analogy about McKuen and about our regular Shatner threads. Good art is another question.

It is the same as my objection to Kinkade. Even what he does well he reproduces endlessly and in various sizes. The public is not getting real value for their money.

The problem with Dali and Kinkade is not the quality of their work. It is the massive reproduction of so-called limited editions which are so large that they may as well be unlimited posters. There is a non-apocryphical story that, even as he was dying, Dali's wife and business manager were placing blank pieces of paper under his hand so he could sign them for eventual production as authorized limited editions of his work.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 11:23 PM

Last night PBS played Independent Lens:

"'The Cool School' recalls the Ferus Gallery in Los Angeles, an art gallery started by curator Walter Hopps and artist Ed Kienholz that exhibited works from 1957 to 1966."

It addresses some of this.

SRS

Subject: ADD: Tone Deaf (John Forster)
From: GUEST,Billy
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 10:29 PM

John Forster summed it up in his song "Tone Deaf".

His Mama sang soprano at the Met.
His Dad was in the Juilliard Quartet.
His brother played as well as Horowitz.
His sister'd had a string of country hits.
But he was tone deaf.
He couldn't find his pitch.
Tone deaf
By some genetic glitch.
He couldn't tell an E-flat from an F,
The bass from treble clef.
He was stone tone deaf.

They tested him for blockage
Or a broken chromosome.
He finally got the message
And ran away from home.
He wandered sad and lonely,
Till one night in Srinigar
He met an fascinating lady
Sitting in a bar.

Her mother was a prima ballerina.
She had three sisters, each a brilliant "trina."
Her Dad was a hoofer extraordinaire.
In fact, her godfather was Fred Astaire.

But she had no sense of rhythm.
She couldn't feel the beat.
She had no sense of rhythm
And two left feet.
Her family danced, but when she joined in with 'em
Oo, the criticithm
Cause she had absolutely no sense of rhythm.

From the start these tortured souls
Were tunelessly in tune.
They danced together clumsily,
Reciting Rod McKuen.
And when they wed, their pain
Turned into never-ending sun.
They had a bunch of children
And every single one--

Was tone deaf
And rhythmless combined
And also goofy looking
And also colorblind.
The story has a moral
That is very hard to knock.
Two black sheep
Is all it takes to start a flock.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 05:17 PM

Not a particular fan of Pollock myself. Art is in the mind of the beholder; whether one gives it a thumbs up or thumbs down is a personal decision. The more one studies art, the more tolerant one becomes, even though 'understanding' is not achieved.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: PoppaGator
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 03:31 PM

I don't understand Pollock, either ~ thanks for the spelling correction, Q, by the way ~ but I admit that I don't understand visual art in general, and I accept the judgement of others that his work is worthwhile, somehow. I do know that "the average two-year-old" could never truly duplicate what he was doing, whatever that was.

However, I do more-or-less understand Warhol. It's not about how faithfully he was able to depict the can of soup, it's about how his choices ~ of subject matter, of technique, genre, etc. ~ reflect a modern understanding of the big new interconnected world we live in.

Not everyone is going to understand, and not everyone who understands really wants to look at the stuff every day. So what? Think of it like TV: if you don't dig it, change the channel.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 03:20 PM

Discussion of modern art would seem to to be outside the purpose of this thread. Trying to fit people who reshaped concepts in their field into comparisons at this level doesn't work. Warhol and Pollock don't belong here.

Warhol's work mirrors the present commercial age; he created a new way of regarding our culture through art; his importance is evident in the increasing regard his works are held throughout the world.
His "Green Car Crash" sold for $71 million recently to an important Russian collector, and other works are bringing ever rising prices as museums and art collectors vie to obtain his works for important collections.

Jackson Pollock (note spelling) did his best work in a rather short period, alcoholism took over in later life. His better works bring ever-increasing prices, though it is doubtful the the price of $140 million, paid by a German collector for one of his works, will be exceeded.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 12:18 AM

While Pollack meets the definition of originality, his later work is within the capability of the average 2 year old.

Andy Warhol will probably fade over the years as he seems to be famous for being famous. His work lacks originality, being largely remakes and renditions of others' efforts.

The definition of art was fatally debased when a major artist exhibited a urinal as art and responded to the critics saying It's art because I say it is."

Gresham's principal is constantly at work.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: PoppaGator
Date: 10 Jun 08 - 03:37 PM

No serious literary critic or academically recognized literary scholar EVER took McKuen seriously as a "poet."

On the other hand, many serious artists, art historians, critics, curators, etc., have high respect and serious regard for Jackson Pollack and Andy Warhol. It's not unusual for regular folks like us to dislike weird art, I suppose, but I still don't think it's quite fair, or even logical, to plug those two names into this exercise.

I like Stringsinger's proposition that songwriting is a higher calling than poetry. I agree; I enjoy and admire thousands of songs, and couldn't care less about most poetry (especially modern/contemporary).

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 05:45 PM

Poetry- "writing that formulates a concentrated imaginative awareness of experience in language chosen and arranged to create a specific emotional response through meaning, sound and rhythm." 3a. "something likeened to poetry esp. in beauty of expression."
3b. "poetic quality or aspect (the --- of dance)."

Song- 1. "the act or art of singing."
2. "poetical composition."
3a. "a short musical composition of words and music."
3b. "a collection of such compositions."
4a. "a distinctive or characteristic sound or series of sounds."
5a. "a melody for a lyric poem or ballad."
6a. "a habitual or characteristic manner."
etc.

(One of the definitions for doggerel- "marked by triviality or inferiority.")

Those are pretty broad definitions; all are from Webster's Collegiate Dictionary.

Should stringsinger be obeyed? Or should he be renditioned?

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 01:23 PM

Rod McKuen is not a real poet. He is a popularizer of light verse and his song lyrics are
not poetry. Neither are Bob Dylan's or John Lennon's. What we see today is an ignorance about what constitutes poetry. Artsy-fartsy songs by many of today's young songwriters are not poetry.

Poetry is not lyrics. It has to be evaluated on the printed page and sometimes read aloud.
When you put music to it, then it becomes a song. Not all poetry will work as a song.

To call a songwriter a poet is to call an oil painter a decal designer.

Songwriting is a special talent and skill and lyric writing only works when there's a melody for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Padre
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 12:56 PM

Rod McKuen : Poetry :: K Schori : Theology

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 11:39 AM

RodMcKuen : Poetry : Disney on Broadway : Musical Theater

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 11:37 AM

The one who gets so much play at MOMA. I believe his first name is Gerhard.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: RangerSteve
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 08:05 AM

R.McK. - poetry, Andrew Lloyd-Weber - Musical theater.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Jun 08 - 07:57 AM

EBarnacle: There are a lot of photographers named Richter. Google turns up John, Diane, Mike, Ulli, Kurt, Amy, Jennifer.... Which one did you have in mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Slag
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 11:40 PM

Oh, I thought the title was an example of his blank verse.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Padre
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 10:01 PM

Rod McKuen : poetry :: Richard Brautigan : literature

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 08:03 PM

Rod McKuen:Poetry :: Jackson Pollack:Painting :: Richter:Photography

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 10:54 PM

as Canadian (American) Idol is to music

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Greg B
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 09:38 PM

I'll be the first---

It's nearly as good as the Vogon stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Janie
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 09:09 PM

Can't resist....

William Shatner: acting :: William Shatner : singing

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Alice
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 08:39 PM

William Shatner:acting :: Red Sovine:singing

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 08:07 PM

Miller and Roberts, songwriters. "There's a Star-Spangled Banner Waving Somewhere."

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:46 PM

Rod McKuen : poetry :: Partridge Family : Rock 'n Roll

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:42 PM

Joe Clone, link fixer. He fixed that Keane link. One is painful enough!

McKuen to poetry as Martha Stewart to design.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:38 PM

Lawrence Welk:musician::Wonderbread:cuisine
(Actually, both very popular examples)

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:33 PM

Lawrence Welk, musician? Dead, but persists on PBS.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:22 PM

Rod McKuen is to poetry what George W. Bush is to intellect

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:17 PM

Stan Roger:lyrics::Rembrandt:painting

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: pdq
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 07:10 PM

Rod McKuen : poetry :: Andy Warhol : painting

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: frogprince
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 06:27 PM

Rod McKuen:Poetry::Deep fried twinkies:Healthfood

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 06:17 PM

Keane 1 is a bad link but Keane 2 is OK, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 06:15 PM

Margaret Keane. Paintings of kids with large eyes. My life as a famous artist
OR
Keane eyes gallery

Sharae. Paintings of angels. Original fine art angel paintings

Link fixed. --JoeClone, 07-Jun-2008.

Subject: BS: Rod McKuen : poetry :: ------- : -------
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Jun 08 - 05:45 PM

In another thread, Joe Offer made some insightful comments about Rod McKuen.

In an effort to explain what Rod McKuen meant to me, I came up with this analogy:

Rod McKuen : poetry :: Thomas Kinkade : painting

Time to sharpen up your analogy skills!

Can you think of others?

Please put them in the form

(name of person) : (type of artistic or cultural activity)

I'm putting this in BS because it isn't necessarily about music, but it could be.

Just in case you mention someone we've never heard of, please insert either a link or a comment, or both.