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Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? Related threads: Lyr Req: Hop Along Peter (Frank Dumont) (11) Lyr Req: Hopalong Peter (6) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: PHJim Date: 11 Nov 13 - 01:11 AM Just reading over this old thread and I'm surprised no one's given me shit for saying that I taught "scool" for thirty years. I do know how to spell school...honest. The "New Lost City Ramblers' Song Book" gives Fisher Hendley credit for this song and dates it in the mid-30s. The NLCR Songbook has been re-released with a title "The Old Time String Band Songbook" or something similar. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: GUEST,Pam Date: 10 Nov 13 - 09:43 PM Bee-Another possibility is that according to my father (deceased), Winton Chance, a PeeDee is a German name for a frog. So, Dutch might refer to Deutch as in German. Just sayin". |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: Ross Campbell Date: 06 Nov 11 - 09:21 AM I think I heard Norman Block and Nancy McDowell singing this at Blackpool Folk Club in the Raikes Hotel (Blackpool, Lancashire), late '70s or early'80s? I couldn't have remembered it from just one hearing, so it might be on the LP I bought at the time? Ross |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: babypix Date: 05 Nov 11 - 05:54 PM @ Bee-dubya-ell I must respectfully submit that I disagree with your assessment here. I believe that being "Dutch" or "in Dutch" is old colloquial parlance for "broke" or "out of money". Anyone else have thoughts on this? Kindly, Deborah |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 04 Nov 11 - 08:18 PM I sing the first line of the second verse "Old mother Hubbard and her dog went Dutch" instead of "were Dutch". "Went" is what I thought I was hearing when I got the song from a Highwoods Stringband recording about 30 years ago. Maybe they sang "were" and I misheard, but I think the idea of Old Mother Hubbard and her dog going Dutch (going on a date in which each person pays his/her own way) adds to the nonsensical humor of the song. Their simply being Dutch adds no such humor. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: babypix Date: 04 Nov 11 - 07:39 PM PHJim-- yep, it's big fun, that song, any way you slice it! Best, Deborah |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: PHJim Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:23 PM I taught elementary scool for thirty some odd years starting in 1967 and taught this song to every class. I learned it from a NLCR album. About10 years ago Zeke Mazurek and I played a house concert. A couple of kids asked Zeke if he knew any weird tunes and Zeke started singing Hopalong Peter while playing his fiddle like a mandolin. He was surprised to hear me put on a harmony and play along with him. Neither of us had played it for about 8 years, but we added it to our repertoire that night. |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: babypix Date: 04 Nov 11 - 12:27 PM Thanks, Richie-- it's a lovely one! Deborah |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: Richie Date: 04 Nov 11 - 09:09 AM Hi, I put my version on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5kAzSQ__rU Richie |
Subject: Origins: Hopalong Peter From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Nov 11 - 02:31 AM Here's an article by Bob Waltz (Traditional Ballad Index) from a website called Remembering The Old Songs:Hop Along Peterby Bob Waltz(Originally published: Inside Bluegrass, August 2001)As I was typing Jerry Barney's transcription of Gentle On My Mind,I couldn't help but notice how unusual the song is. Each verse is a whole sentence! Although it's going somewhere, it sounds very stream-of-consciousness. This style is, to put it mildly, very rare in traditional song; I can't recall any other piece with that sort of long, drawn-out stanza. But there are many songs, especially in American tradition, with a sort of "stream-of-consciousness" feel -- something happens, then something else happens, and there really isn't much connection between them, or much point either. Such songs are often humorous, sometimes bawdy, sometimes dependent on wordplay. (You need something to keep the listener's attention, after all, when the song doesn't have a plot to help you along.) The trick in this first verse is common; Bob Bovee and Gail Heil, for instance, have a song called George Washington which relies on the same trick, and Vance Randolph has a political song along the same lines. Less suitable for publication is the song family called Bang, Bang, Lulu (given some of the verses, I'm rather glad I don't know Lulu, or her duck -- or the song, for that matter). Hopalong Peter isn't very widely collected, and I suspect that means it isn't very old. There seem to have been two recordings on 78s: By J. E. Mainer and by Fisher Hendley and the Aristocratic Pigs. (Until I discovered the Mainer version, I thought Hendley might have made this thing up. Lyle Lofgren tells me that the Mainer version sounds to be derived from Hendley; maybe my first reaction was right.) The Hendley version was recorded by the New Lost City Ramblers, who put it in their songbook (the only version in print, to my knowledge). I've heard other recordings (I think I first heard it sung by Roxanne Neat and David Stoeri), but they all seem to go back to the NLCR version. I still think the song was slapped together by someone; most songs of this type repeat the wordplay, but this one has only the one verse where you expect a word and don't get it. The missing word probably seemed much more scandalous eighty or ninety years ago; maybe they didn't dare repeat the trick. The NLCR version puts fermatas in the music all over the place. They slow down particularly at the end of the first verse, to make sure you get the point. The music as I hear it in my head differs a bit from that in the NLCR songbook -- notably in the chorus; they show the words "where you" as being sung to an A note, I hear an F#. Lyle says he learned it with an A note. For safety, I've shown both. You could obviously add a lot of nonsense to this song if you had the mind. Or maybe it would be easier if you were out of your mind. Complete Lyrics: CHORUS: Old mother Hubbard and her dog were Dutch, Down in the barnyard playing seven-up, I've got a sweet gal in this here town, |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: babypix Date: 04 Nov 11 - 02:00 AM Thank you one and all. Time to hop along off to dreamland. Warmest regards, D & L |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:56 AM ...and Stewie is every bit as credible as Richie, so you have double verification.... -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: babypix Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:52 AM Zounds! That's pretty compelling stuff, Joe. We'll go with this unless someone else wants to come out of the woodwork and refute it! Best, Deb 'n' Larry |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: Stewie Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:48 AM Earliest dates given by Meade et alia, 'Country Music Sources', are 'Frank Dumont before 1875', 'Wm Courthwright's Flewy, Flewy, Flew Songster (1875)' and Old Yankee Robinson's Comic Songster (1875)'. Meade gives numerous other 19th century references. [Meade et alia p473]. --Stewie. |
Subject: Origins: Hopalong Peter/Hop Along Peter From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:33 AM I've rarely found Mudcatter Richard "Richie" Matteson to be wrong. he claims the song dates back to about 1875, which would put it in the public domain. Here's what he says on his Bluegrassmessengers Website:
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Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: babypix Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:28 AM Hiya, Joe-- I agree about the Haywire Mac connection seemingly terribly unlikely-- A prior Mudcat discussion on this song lists the following: The U.S. Catalog of Copyright Entries lists HOP ALONG PETER, copyright filed by Fisher Hendley of Columbia, SC, in 1939. That seems right to me, in light of Lyle Lofgren's research and other comments. Is it gooseberry time yet? Thanks for all this info. Warm regards, Deborah |
Subject: RE: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:24 AM Hi, Deborah - I don't think I'd believe a Haywire Mac attribution, but J.E. Mainer seems possible. Here's what the Traditional Ballad Index says: Hopalong PeterDESCRIPTION: Nonsense song. "Old mother Hubbard and her dog were Dutch/A bow-legged rooster and he hobbled on a crutch/Hen chawed tobacco and the duck drank wine/The goose played the fiddle on the pumpkin vine" and similar verses.AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1937 (recording, Mainer's Mountaineers) KEYWORDS: nonsense animal chickens drink wordplay FOUND IN: US(MW,SE) REFERENCES (2 citations): BrownIII 160, "Get Along, John, the Day's Work's Done" (1 text, of only three lines, but two of them correspond to this song) Cohen/Seeger/Wood, pp. 104-105, "Hopalong Peter" (1 text, 1 tune) ST CSW104 (Full) RECORDINGS: Fisher Hendley & his Aristocratic Pigs, "Hop Along Peter" (Vocalion 04780, 1939, on CrowTold01) J. E. Mainer's Mountaineers, "Hop Along Peter" (Bluebird B-6752 [as Mainer, Morris & Sherrill?]/Montgomery Ward M-7131, 1937) New Lost City Ramblers, "Hopalong Peter" (on NLCR10, NLCRCD1) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Hallelujah" cf. "Johnny Fell Down in the Bucket" (technique) cf. "I'll Rise When the Rooster Crows" (lyrics) cf. "Hannamaria" (theme) NOTES: Although most people who hear this song probably think this is about a lagomorph, probably a rabbit (thanks to Beatrix Potter and Peter Rabbit), this may not be the case. Pamela J. Chance of North Carolina knew about it from her father, Winton Lewis Chance of Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan (born July 27, 1920); his version gives the chorus as Hop along a PeeDee, Hop along a PeeDee, Where you goin'? Where you goin'? She notes the following: "[Winton Chance] was taught this song by his father, Floyd Alden Chance of Indiana when Win was a boy. Win's mom's name was Alma Nellie (Weber) Chance. The family lived in Napoleon, Indiana where they ran the general store and then moved to Muncie, Indiana. Alma ran a pie shop in Muncie from their home.... on the edge of the Ball State University campus. Floyd's side of the family was English, (possibly Scottish) and Alma's side German. Germans use the name 'PeeDee' or�'PeeDee�dinks' for a small frog." This might indicate a German origin for the song, but a similar word in fact occurs in English; according to Alexander Warrack, The Scots Dialect Dictionary, Waverly Books, 2000, p. 397, a paddock (also spelled puddock) is a frog or toad. There is even a version of "Frog Went A-Courting" titled "Puddy He'd A-Wooing Ride." So an original in which the word was "peedee" or perhaps "paddock" or even "paddy" is not unlikely, with that form later corrupted to "Peter." A number of verses to this song rely on the "unexpected final word." For example, a common first verse runs Old Uncle Peter, he got tight, Started up to Heaven on a stormy night. The road being rough and him not well, He lost his way and he went... to... (Chorus) Hopalong Peter, where you going (x2) Hopalong Peter, won't you bear in mind I ain't coming back till the gooseberry time. - RBW Last updated in version 2.5 File: CSW104 Go to the Ballad Search form The Ballad Index Copyright 2011 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
Subject: Origins: Hop Along Peter + Haywire Mac? From: babypix Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:09 AM You GOTTA be kiddin'! Looking up "Hop Along Peter" for music licensing purposes, and came across two (!) citations: one attributing the song to Wade Mainer, the OTHER, to Sterling Sherwin and Harry McClintock. I've never heard Haywire Mac sing or be attributed to writing this song. Anyone care to posit a guess-- according to Lyle Lofgren, this song seems more likely to be derived by Fisher Hendley (Aristocratic Pigs). Oink? Anybody? Mark Ross, are you there? Kindest regards, Deborah Robins-Hanks |
Subject: Lyr Add: HOPALONG PETER From: Pene Azul Date: 29 May 01 - 02:02 AM Found Here (email sent) HOPALONG PETER (Traditional) Old Uncle Peter, he got tight Started up to heaven one stormy night The road being rough and him not well He lost, his way and he went to ... Chorus Hopalong Peter where you goin'? Hopalong Peter where you goin'? Hopalong Peter won't you bear in mind I ain't comin' back 'til the gooseberry time Old mother Hubbard and her dog were Dutch A bow-legged rooster and he hobbled on a crutch The hen chewed tobacco and the duck drank wine The goose played the fiddle on the pumpkin vine [chorus] Down in the barn yard playin' seven up The old tomcat and the little yellow pup The old mother Hubbard she's a pickin' out the fleas The rooster in the cream jar up to his knees [chorus] I've got a sweet gal in this old town If she weighs an ounce she weighs seven hundred pounds Every time my sweet gal turns once around The heels of her shoe makes a hole in the ground [chorus] |
Subject: Lyr Req: Hop Along Peter From: Mackinaw Date: 28 May 01 - 11:53 AM Hey! I used to sing "Hop Along Peter" years ago, but mainly played it on the fiddle. Ah needs the words so ah kin sang it! Thanks!! Send words e-mail to: marcusdrake@hotmail.com Thankyew! |
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