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BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D.
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Richard Bridge Date: 19 Jul 01 - 04:34 PM I fear that the election of Walker (funny, that "l") will not just be a temporary problem for the USA but will cause many long term problems for the wrold - climate change and nuclear war being just two. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Gareth Date: 19 Jul 01 - 04:08 PM Naemanson, The British people elected a woman Prime Minister, we are still recovering. But more to the point things are improving slightly, but I fear it will be a long time before positive discrimination becomes uneccessary. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Naemanson Date: 19 Jul 01 - 03:55 PM We don't need to add more liers to the pack. We need one person of integrity to stand up and expose the whole process as a fraud. Unfortunately that person is immediately labeled a kook or a crank and is shuttled off to a funny farm. Consider, it takes money to get elected. Who has the money? Businesses and the wealthy people. Consider, people want to believe what is presented on their TVs. Why? Because, for some reason, being on TV confers some kind of credibility. Consider, to be on TV you have to be either young and handsome or old and distinguished. There is no requirement to be intellegent. Consider, to be seriously considered for any elective office you have to conform to the preconceptions of the majority of the voters and contributors. There is no room for independence of thought. If there is any danger of independence you do not have an opportunity to run. Based on the above, what is our future? Dim and dark. Where are the women and minorities to run for the highest office in the land? They don't fit the stereotype for the big political parties. Apparently only white males are acceptable. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: thosp Date: 18 Jul 01 - 10:20 PM i guess you forgot me -- i prefer Naders' lies (or Green Party what have you) |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 17 Jul 01 - 10:12 PM I was prepared to close the door on this one until I listened to Hannety and Colmes on the Fox News Network tonight. For those who do not recieve it, the Fox News Network, is on Cable and professes to present a fair and accurate report giving equal time to the left and the right. On the show tonight, Colmes, who is liberal, asked Dick Morris, former advisor to President Clinton, his thoughts on the New York Times article that prompted this Thread. Morris chuckled and produced a piece of paper. On it were printed federal regulations governing the handling of ballots of service women and men serving overseas. The regulations clearly state that no postage is required for Service men and women to mail absentee ballots. Sixty percent of the questionable ballots cited in the New York Times article were so classified. So naturally they had no postmark. Yet the Times says they should not have been counted? Wouldn't you think that at least one of the twenty-four reporters assigned to the New York Times story would have discovered this federal regulation? If they did, it certainly was not included in the story. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 17 Jul 01 - 04:04 PM Gareth, I suppose you're right. Guest UBDan: I suspect you would garner a lot of rehetric, but I doubt that would put an end to it. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Gareth Date: 17 Jul 01 - 02:58 PM Sorry Doug, of course Fidel C, and Batista would make perfect observers, but I am not to sure unrecontituted elemnts would alow it. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: GUEST,UB Dan Date: 17 Jul 01 - 02:47 PM Perhaps we could have a new permathread created so that everyone can register their personal feelings about the past election and be done with it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 17 Jul 01 - 12:58 PM Naemanson: Cynical? Hmmm. Perhaps. :>) (with some justification I admit) |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Naemanson Date: 17 Jul 01 - 11:50 AM How can you tell if a politician is lying? His/her lips are moving. Applies equally to any politician in any party in any system you want to point to. Fact of life. Change of party in an election just means we have to get used to a whole new set of crooks. As one who follows politics you just have to decide which set of lies you prefer to believe. It looks like Greg prefers to believe the Democratic lies and Doug prefers the Republican lies. The magic lies in steering a path between the two sets of liers and finding ourselves safe on the other side. So far so good. For those who want to institute additional parties the thing gets even more complicated. With 3 or more poitical parties we would have to find our way through more and more complicated lies and treacheries. I don't believe it would be worth it. Who me? Cynical? Perish the thought. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 16 Jul 01 - 08:58 PM **LOL**, Greg! |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 16 Jul 01 - 08:16 PM True enough, Doug, but I don't think anyone would seriously propose her/him for President. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 16 Jul 01 - 07:59 PM Greg, I think the Tooth Fairy serves a useful purpose if you have kid on the verge of losing a tooth! Gareth: Why did you leave out Fidel? LH will be offended.:>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Gareth Date: 16 Jul 01 - 07:07 PM Ah I can see it now - all them international observers at the next United States Prezidential Election.
Perchance the spirit of Tricky Dicky could preside. We must not leave Africa out of the line up, Mugabe, Amin, and Nekrumah would qualify. And of course from euroop -...... Native observers would, of course, include, Kissinger, Timothy McVie, and David Duke. All of which would be happy to certify that the reelection of George W Bush by a new minority, was in the best democratic ( Ooops ! I mean Republican ) tradition. My God such a proud and mighty nation, in the past the arsenal of democracy, and to whome europe owes so much !! Satire fails me ! Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 16 Jul 01 - 06:21 PM Well, Doug, as you're so fond of reminding us: 1. That's just someone's opinion and 2: You're certainly entitled to believe anything you wish. What's your take on the Tooth Fairy? Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 16 Jul 01 - 03:21 PM There was an additonal follow-up story in today's paper about the Florida election. The overseas ballots that were counted were not done so as a result of pressure from Republican Bush teams, as was reported in the New York Times article, but were counted "only because the county was under federal court orders to do so." "In a case brought by Republicans, U. S. District Judge Lacey Collier ordered six counties to reconsider overseas ballots rejected for lack of a postmark or date or for other reasons." Elections suprvisor acknowledged, "You don't ignore a federal judge. We allowed the Republicans and the Democrats file their protests. We took note, filed them away ...and did what we thought was right." Elections Supervisor, Pam Iorio, who serves Hillsborough County acknowledged the pressure that canvassing boards felt but said it came from both sides. Now, someone will probably ask, "Who appointed Judge Lacey Collier to his position on the federal bench?" I don't know. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: mousethief Date: 16 Jul 01 - 02:24 PM I too deplore the "security over freedom" direction our courts and legislators seem to be taking. Did you know you could have your car seized and not returned without ever being found guilty of possession? The founding fathers are weeping in their graves. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: LoopySanchez Date: 16 Jul 01 - 02:06 PM Gore is not unlike a football team that has the ball with 30 seconds on the clock, down by 4 points, and runs 3 consecutive illegal plays (recounts) trying to score a touchdown. Then the referee says, "sorry, you're out of time, you should have run a legal play (recount) when you had a chance)", and the team throws a little fit. And keep in mind that the counties in which the election results were disputed, Democrats were in the majority on the election boards. Thus, they set the rules, designed the ballots, decided which type of voting machines would be used, etc. ALSO keep in mind that the vote was SEVEN TO TWO (7-2) on the U.S. Supreme Court that Gore's Democratic county recounts were ILLEGAL. The 5-4 vote was only over whether Gore would get more time to make yet a FOURTH attempt to organize a legal recount. That being said, I'd probably be thinking like the Democrats and vice-versa if our places were switched. I'm just disappointed that the Libertarians don't have a fighting chance with the "pro-government expansion", "security over freedom" mentality that seems to be ever-increasing in America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 15 Jul 01 - 09:34 PM Greg, I agree we are beating a dead horse. Neither of us will convince the other of his point of view. However, I fail to see why your are so critical of the methods the Bush team used, when the Gore team used the same, or other equally questionable tactics, and you do not include them in your criticism. Isn't that being a bit hypocritical? Or perhaps you feel the Gore team was justified in using whatever methods they felt would produce a "win" for their man? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: mousethief Date: 15 Jul 01 - 09:27 PM No, Doug, he didn't use the same tactics. He used a politically charged Supreme Court. His opponent didn't; or rather, his opponent had fewer fans on the Court. What is really disgusting about the whole election is not the vote counts in Florida. It was the vote counts in Washington, DC. Alex |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 01 - 08:25 PM One last whack on the dead horse & I'm thru- The fact that Dubya "won" is a temporary misfortune that the country will get thru with some pain; we've survived similar misfortunes before. The real tradgedy for the country is the elastic morality and corrupt tactics employed to obtain that "win" AND the fact that there are people that see nothing wrong with employing such tactics and urge others to "get over it". THAT is going to have negative repercussions for the political system down the line. Some folks seem to view elections as a sort of football match- I think them of more import than a childish game in which "winning is everything". Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 15 Jul 01 - 07:13 PM An "international" body? Boy, you are far out Greg. But I think your a nice guy anyway. The POINT is, he won, using pretty much the same tactics as his opponent! Show me in the article you suggested people read where it says either side did anything illegal. That would be the only basis for "having the results thrown out." DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 01 - 06:16 PM You're missing the point, as usual, Doug- it is not THAT the man won so much as HOW he won. If the Florida election had been monitored by an internatonal body, the results would have been thrown out. The election was a fraud- "get over it!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 15 Jul 01 - 02:46 PM Hmmm. Wonder where they got that idea, Greg? I heard this discussed on "This Week with Sam and Cokie." Evidently the "Times" assigned 24 reporters to this particular story and they came up with a 4.5 page report. The bottom line is, no one can say with any certainty that the result of the election would have been changed. Bush won. Get over it everybody! Kendall has the right idea, get busy and find someone to beat Bush in 2004 (if you can). :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 01 - 02:12 PM Read closely indeed, Doug- the Repubs. are claiming "no controlling legal authority". Hmmm..... Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Ebbie Date: 15 Jul 01 - 02:04 PM I read the article on Yahoo! (www.yahoo.com) Ebbie |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: kendall Date: 15 Jul 01 - 12:45 PM RE ELECT GORE IN 2004. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: DougR Date: 15 Jul 01 - 12:28 PM Just be certain you read the whole article, folks. No illegal activities were found on the part of the Republicans or the Democrats. That is not reported until well into the story, however. You have to wade through a bunch of Republican bashing before you get to that little tidbit. It just points out the Republicans were a bit more "on the ball" than the Democrats. **BG** DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 01 - 12:14 PM Just trying to be polite, LH. ;-)There's a guy here picks on me regularly if I'm "sarcastic". Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 01 - 12:11 PM Naemanson: Just double-checked & got the "Subscription" nonsense myself. Use "mudcat1" (that's numeral 1) as both subscriber ID & password (anonymous account)& it'll work if your browser accepts cookies. Then delete the cookies if you've a problem with them. Good luck. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Jul 01 - 12:03 PM Greg - LOL! "tend to" is hardly strong enough... - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: paddymac Date: 15 Jul 01 - 12:02 PM Fascinating article, Geg. Thanks for posting the link. While it is true that Gore would have won the Presidency if he had carried Florida, it is also true that he would have won had he carried his home state of Tennessee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 01 - 11:59 AM RATS! Not sure why you're getting the Subscription bit- I've no NYS times cookie on the machine here(just checked) & works OK for me- you could maybe try the basic address www.nytimes.com & navigate to the article from there?? Maybe some other computer-savvy types could assist- I'd post the article, but its a multi-pager.
LH- most 'conservatives' have no problem with the NY Times- it is hardly a left-wing publication. Now loony right-wingers, on the other hand, tend to dislike it... |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Little Hawk Date: 15 Jul 01 - 11:28 AM Oh my God...not this again. And we all know how conservatives just LOVE the New York Times...they'll all be rushing off to read it (with utter loathing) and then fire off a rebuttal, with lots of capital letters and exclamation points in it to show just how DANGED ANGRY THEY REALLY ARE!!! As far as I'm concerned, the Democrats and Republicans both stole the electoral process from the American people a long time ago...but I'm Canadian, and that gives me a certain cynical detachment regarding the whole situation. Mind you, I feel the same way about our political parties here as well. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Naemanson Date: 15 Jul 01 - 10:33 AM I couldn't get to the article. I ran into the offer to open a subscription. Is there another path? |
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Subject: RE: BS: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Gareth Date: 15 Jul 01 - 09:59 AM Intresting - here in the UK the laws on Postal Ballots have recently changed. It is now a lot easier to get a postal ballot. Without boring M'catters with the minute details here in Caerphilly (Electorate 62K) - 1.9K postal ballots were sent out by the Returning Officer. As opposed to the normal expectd 0.45K. I was one of thuse appointed by the Labour Candidate to witness the opening and verification of the postal ballots. In the UK the law is simple - only ballots received before the close of poll are eligable to be counted. They can be handed in at polling station up to that time. Of that 1900, 1450 ish had been receive by post. Another 150 ish came in with the ballot boxes to the count. Of the received ballots circa 20% were disqualified through tchnical matters ranging from neglecting to sign, or have witnessed the declaration of identity, to not returning the actual ballot paper (Yes Really !!!) But the proceedure was conducted with scrupulos fairness. Rejected returns were shown to the witneses and we were asked to note and if neccessary coment on the reasons for rejection. No decision of the counters was questioned, by any of the assembled party hacks. Any attempt to overide the law would have been howled down, by all involved. Not only fair, but seen to be fair ! Oh Florida would that you have followed the same rules. Gareth |
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Subject: BUSHWHACKED IN FLORIDA? Q.E.D. From: Greg F. Date: 15 Jul 01 - 09:17 AM More evidence, were any needed, of how His Fraudulency cheated his way into the Presidency HERE Sure has restored dignity to the office- maybe we can get some of these Law And Order Republicans to mount some election fraud prosecutions?- LOL!! Best, Greg |