BS: Give it up for Lent

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: The Pooka
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 01:59 AM

(Parentheses.)

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 09:30 PM

It's fun to discver "original" versions of songs or stories, but songs and stories have a life of their own and keep on growing and changing.

I suspect the original of that story was actually about taming a mammoth, or something along those lines. And there's probably a version with a Texas governor instead of a king.

And Gloredhel - I think restraining yourself from strangling the singing headmaster is probably quite enough to be going on with. It might have been Thomas Merton who when someone was talking airily about how wonderful it must be living in a monastery where everone was having kind thought about each other, said that never in the outside world had he felt himself so drawn to violence as he was by a particular monk's voice when he was singing the office.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: CarolC
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 08:12 PM

Re: the opening post to this thread. If the goal is to solve the problem of trolling and flaming, I'm having a lot of trouble seeing how this is going to be accomplished unless people are willing to not only stop responding to trolls and flamers, but also to quit bitching about them.

If the goal is something other than solving the problem of trolling and flaming, then never mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Hollowfox
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 07:56 PM

As Mmario said yesterday, some Protestant churches follow the lenten tradition, and even abstain from meat on Good Friday. Myself, I'm giving up computer games (solitaire, free cell, etc), mostly to make better use of my time, and to see if I can do it. Attaching it to an ancient tradition, and a set time period, appeals to me more than giving them up forever. At least right away.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 07:34 PM

McGrath - just to be a pedant - in the original of the story that you started this thread with, the condemned man offers to teach the king's favourite horse to SING, not FLY.

Hmmm - perhaps I'll give up being pedantic AND being nasty to McGrath for Lent !

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Gloredhel
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 07:16 PM

I'm not really giving anything up for Lent-- I consider it a sufficient sacrifice to listen to the headmaster of my school sing the same two hymns at morning Mass for the next six weeks, and try not to complain about it. Our headmaster has a nice singing voice, but only one dynamic-- double forte-- and not much taste in music.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 05:59 PM

MEN??? Oh no I already did that...I'm not a lesbian...perhaps I should become a nun.....

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Burke
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 05:47 PM

Read this just before church yesterday. Have decided Mudcat is what must go for Lent. I expect maybe 3 people might notice. See you in 6 weeks.

WYSIWYG has my e-mail if anyone has Sacred Harp requests.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 04:37 PM

As Mario pointed out, giving things up for Lent is by no means specifically Catholic. It isn't even specifically Christian - well, it is for Lent itself, but the idea of having a time of the year like that has been very widespread. Notably with Muslims and Ramadan of course - now that is serious fasting.

The idea is to do without things that aren't bad in themselves, but you flex your muscles by doing without them for a bit, and maybe longer. Giving up on responding to trolls and suchlike fit the bill nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: GUEST,Skipjack K8
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 03:20 PM

I waddled onto the scales this morning, to confirm that the feasting four-fifths of the year have broken all previous records.

Yes, I'm a die-cast left-footer, and yes, I add another thing to the list each year, but I use it as a self-management tool rather than a penance thing.

This year I've added biscuits to the growing list of coffee, chocolate, alcohol and crisps, but 12 hours in and I'm as miserable as sin. It's the coffee cravings; all the other stuff is bagatelle, until the next session, when beer will replace coffee as the longest lost friend.

I just need to have eight blissful hours rocking in the arms of Morpheus, and I'll be off the bed like a long dog tomorrow morning, as Ash Wednesday is always the best night's sleep of the year.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 11:51 AM

I like the sound of the subject of this thread.
Bullshit - give it up for lent.
I'll try........

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: MMario
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 11:47 AM

Abstinence and fasting and "giving up something for Lent" are not strictly Catholic practices. There are protestant churches/denominations for whom it is traditional as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Mark Clark
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 11:42 AM

I may be wrong but I don't think the Orthodox Church has any “laws” concerning the Fast of Great Lent, it's really a Tradition. The fast is an opportunity to renew spiritual committment and prepare for the Feast of Great and Holy Pascha.

During Great Lent, Orthodox Christians are encouraged to abstain from eating all meat and dairy products each and every day. Lenten meals are also traditionally smaller meals. Fortunately, the cultures in which these Traditions originated invented a number of wonderful Lenten dishes to take up the slack.

Since the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches were one until 1054, I assume Roman Catholic tradition followed Orthodox practice for the first thousand years. It may be, though, that Western practice was already diverging prior to that time.

The Orthodox Church observes many more fasts than just Great Lent. In fact more than half of the days in each year are fast days.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 04:38 AM

I've been a Catholic all my life. I'm glad the Second Vatican Councile did away with most of the leagalism the Catholic Church suffered through. As shown in Blackcatter's post, the laws are still there - although greatly relaxed - but there is no longer an air of legalism that demands strict adherence to rules like this.
I never bothered much with the rules, anyhow...most of them were gone before I became an adult.
I miss the no-meat-on-Friday rule, though - it was a great excuse for churches to have Friday night fish frys (with beer, since prohibition has never been a Papist practice).
The idea of "giving something up for Lent" was something of one's own choosing, beyond what was required by tle now-relaxed laws of fast and abstinence.
One other, major change - they no longer tell you you'll go to hell for breaking the rules of fast and abstinence.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 01:03 AM

I recently talked to a friend of mine who is Catholic that mentioned that her priest was talking about how focusing on not sinning is a good thing during Lent, but it's kind of missing the point, since Catholics should be focusing on not sinning EVERY day. Lent is a time to focus on the situations of those who have to make do with less (i.e. the poor) This is why abstinence from meat is still expected by the church. Here's an article detailing the meat thing in detail:

What is the Church's official position concerning penance and abstinence from meat during Lent?

In 1966 Pope Paul VI reorganized the Church's practice of public penance in his "Apostolic Constitution on Penance" (Poenitemini). The 1983 revision of the Code of Canon Law incorporated the changes made by Pope Paul. Not long after that, the U.S. bishops applied the canonical requirements to the practice of public penance in our country.

To sum up those requirements, Catholics between the ages of 18 and 59 are obliged to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. In addition, all Catholics 14 years old and older must abstain from meat on Ash Wednesday, Good Friday and all the Fridays of Lent.

Fasting as explained by the U.S. bishops means partaking of only one full meal. Some food (not equaling another full meal) is permitted at breakfast and around midday or in the evening - depending on when a person chooses to eat the main or full meal.

Abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, milk products or condiments made of animal fat.

According to Father John Huels in The Pastoral Companion (Franciscan Herald Press), abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat. Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments made from animal fat are not forbidden. So it is permissible to use margarine and lard.

Huels states that even bacon drippings which contain little bits of meat may be poured over lettuce as seasoning. And Huels notes that no one considers gelatin or Jell-O to be meat.

Huels gives a norm long used by moral theologians: If in doubt whether a particular food is considered meat, look to the common estimation of persons in the area. Custom is the best interpreter of the law.

Each year in publishing the Lenten penance requirements, the U.S. bishops quote the teaching of the Holy Father concerning the seriousness of observing these days of penance. The obligation to do penance is a serious one; the obligation to observe, as a whole or "substantially," the days of penance is also serious.

But no one should be scrupulous in this regard; failure to observe individual days of penance is not considered serious. Moral theologians remind us that some people are excused from fasting and/or abstinence because of sickness or other reasons.

In his "Apostolic Constitution on Penance," Pope Paul VI did more than simply reorganize Church law concerning fast and abstinence. He reminded us of the divine law that each of us in our own way do penance. We must all turn from sin and make reparation to God for our sins. We must forgive and show love for one another just as we ask for God's love and forgiveness.

The Code of Canon Law and our bishops remind us of other works and means of doing penance: prayer, acts of self-denial, almsgiving and works of personal charity. Attending Mass daily or several times a week, praying the rosary, making the way of the cross, attending the parish evening prayer service, teaching the illiterate to read, reading to the blind, helping at a soup kitchen, visiting the sick and shut-ins and giving an overworked mother a break by baby-sitting: all of these can be even more meaningful and demanding than simply abstaining from meat on Friday.

from Ask A Franciscan, St.Anthony Messenger magazine

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Blackcatter
Date: 13 Feb 02 - 12:48 AM

Giving up what you feel like giving up is not a Lenten thing - that is a New Year's resolution. The Catholic Church has specific ideas on what you are supposed to give up during Lent.

And if you're not Catholic - it is a bit odd deciding that you're following a Catholic practice.

Lent also is one of many yearly reminder as to why I'm glad I'm not a Papist. (Not that individual Catholics aren't wonderful people).

pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:14 PM

Good idea art!!! Take the Anti-Troll Pledge for Lent

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Louie Roy
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 11:12 PM

Then there was the man who gave up sex for lent and after the 1 st week his wife asked what was wrong with him and he said honey its lent and she coldly said to whom and for how long.Louie Roy

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: GUEST,colwyn dane
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 07:43 PM

Just a slight drift from midstream but this reminds me of the story about
the German industrialist who had "renounced" the material life
and had come out East and was living in the jungles of Sri Lanka as a "swami".
In his white robes and beard he came to one of Krishnamurti's meetings.
At the end of the talk he offered a comment: "I do not think that it
is possible to reach the point of 'choiceless awareness' you speak of as long
as one remains in the material world. It is essential to renounce the material world.
It is essential to renounce everything in life if we wish to attain enlightenment."
Krishnamurti: "What have you renounced, sir?"
Swami: "I was an industrial magnate in Germany. I had great wealth and power.
I renounced my wealth and the power it gave me. I had many women.
I used to drink. I had many vices. I renounced my vices."
Krishnamurti: "Ah - but sir, have you renounced your virtues?"

Fast hard and sleep well.
CD.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Mad4Mud
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 07:05 PM

Artbrooks, my dad gives up beer for Lent but he's always quick to remind us that Sundays are not considered part of Lent. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Cappuccino
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 06:49 PM

Last year, a guitarist I work with said you had to give up something you really enjoyed for Lent - so he gave up listening to blues for a month. The look on his pastor's face was a picture.

- Ian B

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: artbrooks
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 06:35 PM

I think I'll hijack McGrath's pledge and also try to ignore trolls and flamers. Rather do that than give up beer, which would have been herself's suggestion.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: SDShad
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 05:16 PM

"Netball?"

Ignorant or stupid--you decide,

Shad

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: bobby's girl
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 05:12 PM

My dad always used to give up fizzy lemonade and netball for Lent - I was never quite convinced!

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Mad4Mud
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 04:47 PM

I know, gnu. I got it the second time around...geez, and I really feel guilty for not reading it right the first time! :-[

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Mark Clark
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 04:28 PM

I'm still good to go. Great Lent doesn't begin in the Eastern Church until Monday, March 18 this year—we don't have the Shrove Tuesday–Ash Wednesday thing. Pascha is May 5.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: gnu
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 04:27 PM

Mad4Mmud... that's what I was getting at when I said... you'd only be damned for eternity.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: jup
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 04:20 PM

Could I give up work for lent??

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Mad4Mud
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 03:18 PM

Gnu, as a cradle Catholic myself I dare you to show me a Catholic who doesn't have guilt! *BG*

I find it more meaningful to try to change my own behavior during Lent...not always successfully but the effort is there!

An aside, one year my husband gave up meat for Lent. When a friend at work asked what we were giving up I told her, "Richard's giving up meat." She looked at me quizzically and said, "You're kidding? Why??". I thought that was kind of an odd response and asked, "What did you think I just said to you?". She thought I said that Richard was giving up me for Lent!

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: gnu
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 03:10 PM

Just give up something as a sign of reverence. Usually, it is something that makes you a better person, but not necessarily. It could be something that you indulge in only occasionally. But, I suppose, if you're not Catholic, you could break the vow without feeling guilty... you'd only be damned for eternity.

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 03:10 PM

Sharon, try here:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09152a.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: SharonA
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 03:07 PM

I'll give up gambling in the office (U.S.) football pool! *G*

But seriously, folks, how does Lent work? Do you have to tell a priest or someone what you're giving up? Can you repeat the New Year's resolutions that have fallen by the wayside already, or do you have to think of additional things to give up? Please educate me about this!

Sharon

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 02:09 PM

me, I'm giving up double posts...*grin*...and resolutions I can't keep, like double posts

Subject: RE: BS: Give it up for Lent
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:39 PM

Shrove Tuesday today, Forty Days of Lent now. I'm giving up responding to anything that feels like a troll, however tempting. Maybe by the time the Forty Days are up this nastiness about GUESTS will be sorted out. Or maybe I won't feel tempted to wade into action. Or something.

There's the story of the man being led out to die - and he tells the King, "Stop - I've a wonderful secret. I know how to teach a horse to fly. It'll take me six months, but I promise I can do it. And if I can't, you can execute me then - and what have you lost?"

So the King thinks, and it makes sense, because a flying horse would be a great thing to have. So he agrees, and the man is led off to the royal stables.

And a friend of the man slips up to him and he says "Are you mad - you don't know how to teach a horse to fly in six months or a hundred years!"

And the man says "Look, in six months maybe the King will die. Or the horse will die. Or I will die. Or, who knows, maybe the horse will learn to fly after all..."

Forty Days ignoring the parasites who infest this site, and maybe they'll all be gone. Starting with any who come on to this thread and make some pathetic attempt to flame me. (And that doesn't mean GUESTS as such - it means the kind of people who'd make any self-respecting person feel embarrassed at allowing that to appear at the start of their post in case they get associated with them.)

Subject: Give it up for Lent
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 01:35 PM

Shrove Tuesday today, Forty Days of Lent now. I'm giving up responding to anything that feels like a troll, however tempting. Maybe by the time the Forty Days are up this nastiness about GUESTS will be sorted out. Or maybe I won't feel tempted to wade into action. Or something.

There's the story of the man being led out to die - and he tells the King, "Stop - I've a wonderful secret. I know how to teach a horse to fly. It'll take me six months, but I promise I can do it. And if I can't, you can execute me then - and what have you lost?"

So the King thinks, and it makes sense, because a flying horse would be a great thing to have. So he agrees, and the man is led off to the royal stables.

And a friend of the man slips up to him and he says "Are you made - you don't know how to teach a horse to fly in six months or a hundred years!"

And the man says "Look, in six months maybe the King will due. Or the horse will die. Or I will die. Or, who knows, maybe the horse will learn to fly after all..."

Forty Days ignoring the parasites who infest this site, and maybe they'll all be gone. Starting with any who come on to this thread and make some pathetic attempt to flame me. (And that doesn't mean GUESTS as such - it means the kind of people who'd make any self-respecting person feel embarrassed at allowing that to appear at the start of their post in case they get associated with them.