BS: republican president

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 01:12 PM

CarolC: Don't abolish the party system. What will people do on Saturday nights?

I have no answer for that, brucie ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Peace
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 04:36 PM

CarolC: Don't abolish the party system. What will people do on Saturday nights?

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: The O'Meara
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 10:43 AM

There's the truth and there's the myth, and people need them both.

O'Meara

ps We don't need no steenkin' polliticians!

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 12:42 AM

What say you sirs? Abe was a Baboon? How dare you besmerch one of the smartest of animals. You'd never find a self respecting Baboon posting to one of these foolish threads! Much less getting hot and bothered by it! Trolls, now that's a different critter all together!

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 09:29 PM

Well done, Strick...

I generally find myself on the the other side of the isle but when it comes to Lincoln and FDR, we're seein' it purdt much the way it went down...

Unfortunately, Bush is right in there with his trumped up lies for war.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Peace
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 08:58 PM

To be clear, I am aware that Lincoln wasn't all he's perceived to be. He's on the congressionsl record of September 18, 1858, as saying he was NOT in favour of freeing the slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 08:47 PM

So I vote that we abolish all political parties, we abolish the whole 'party system' even, and just have a bunch of candidates to whom we affix no labels whatever, and we vote for the one we think would be the best president.

All those who agree say 'aye'!

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: kendall
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 08:09 PM

Ad even the cherry tree story was a lie. Mason Weems mad that up

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Metchosin
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 11:22 AM

I copied this from the Canadian Politicians Stink too thread as I think it is semi appropriate here as well:

It always strikes me odd, as a Canadian, when I look at the other threads, and see how many Americans have such reverence for and ascribe such mythic, heroic attributes to their dead Presidents. Canadians on the other hand, generally do not view their Prime Ministers as usually anything more than dead politicians.

Trudeau may have been an exception, but he came at a time when Canadians wanted something of the sex appeal of Kennedy and saw in Trudeau, youth, fresh possibility and new beginnings; a different form of politics. Maybe some Canadians are cynical because a lot of that promise did not come to fruition, particularly for their children.

Or perhaps a Canadian's cynicism regarding politicians may have been set even earlier by the cynicism of Canada's own politicians. Whereas George Washington is remebered for "Father, I cannot tell a lie, I cut the tree", Canada's Conservative Father of Confederation, Sir John A. MacDonald was heard to say "The job of a politician is to shake the acorns from the tree to the pigs below". Maybe we can forgive him because he was also quite regularly drunk.

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Strick
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 09:45 AM

"Neither started hostilities because he had issues with his father."

But only political considerations held FDR from overtly starting hostilities. He did everything in his power to get the Axis to attack the US because of the powerful Isolationist movement in the US and more than a little common sympathy for the Nazis. I'll refer you to my post in the "worst president" thread where I posted a link to a copy of memo outlining how to start a war without seeming to.

Want to hear something funny? The day before Pearl Harbor, December 6th, the Chicago Tribune headlined a outraged report that Roosevelt's administration had prepared a plan for invading Europe, D Day style, all they while he was on the election trail and every in stump speach promised he would "not send our boys to war". If the Japanese had found a way not to attack the US despite the increasing US provocations, FDR's political legacy might be very different in deed.

To my knowledge Roosevelt never wore a uniform (that was Churchill and Stalin) but he flew to North Africa to be photographed with the troops for the propaganda and political benefits. He was facing a fourth re-election after all.

Lincoln's election was considered extremely divisive, and not just in the South which seceded over it. Draft riots, war protests, newspapers displaying open Southern sympathies and slashing Lincoln and the war, all that continued up to the point Grant finally got some traction. Then, after years of claiming the war wasn't about slavery, Lincoln freed the slaves! Only it was just the slaves in the states the Union didn't control, the Southern states not yet defeated and not the slave in states that fought with the Union. A totally useless proclamation, a politicaly ploy to prevent Britain from entering the war on the South's side. Nothing more than a distraction at the time, I'm afraid.

Lincoln was never photographed in uniform, but he sure made it to the lines to see the men and be seen by reporters after every victory few and far between they were until 1863. He faced a difficult re-election, too. You really think politicians have changed that much?

Please note I'm not trying to tear down either of these men. I just find the myths that have grown up around them so different from the reality It amazes me how people turn to them and why particularly when people have gone off the deep end in times like these.

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: LadyJean
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 11:55 PM

Yes, Lincoln was criticized. And you should have heard what some of my family said about Franklin Roosevelt.
Both of them were war presidents, but their wars were long in coming. Neither started hostilities because he had issues with his father. Neither created non issues, like gay marriage, to distract voters. Both promoted unity, rather than division. And neither one of them would have thought of dressing up in a uniform they had no business wearing, and playing top gun pilot on board a battleship.

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Strick
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 10:10 PM

Wasn't trying to call your hand, just confused. No problem, I've done worse.

You never know how far to trust what you find on the internet, but here are some quotes that I've seen something like many years ago in the real world.

Filthy story teller, despot, liar, thief, braggart, buffoon, usurper, monster, ignoramus Abe, old scoundrel, perjurer, swindler, tyrant, field-butcher, land-pirate.
- Harpers magazine, on Abraham Lincoln

Nothing more than a well meaning baboon.
- General McCellan, on Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln as a Monkey, holding a copy of the Emancipation Proclamation

Lincoln was a very unpopular man in his time.

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:56 PM

oops...excuse me while i extract my head from my arse and my foot from me mouth...my apologies...

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:28 PM

Guest: He's been called the original "baboon," a Western hick, a played-out imbecile, a murderer, a traitor and a destroyer of the Constitution??????????

I didn't call Bush any of those things. Was it Chretien that first called Bush a moron? Bush lied, not only to his own people but to
the world. Do you really think there is any comparison between what the others thought of Lincoln and what the world thinks of Bush?

Oh, oh - I think tarheel is back.

d

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Strick
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:11 PM

I'm confused Amergin, what does that Snopes article have to do with what Guest posted? I don't see that anything it this post is refuted by Snopes at all. Did I miss something?

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:03 PM

methinks Sir Guest should research his history a little before he posts crap... ;)

What Snopes Has To Say

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:38 PM

Ummmmm, who was it that pushed and pushed the southern states into a war that would pit brother against brother?

Who was it that freed the slaves in *only* the Confederate states?

Like I've said another thread, Lincoln was the worst president of all. The current crook, mind you, is definately on me Top Ten list of bad presidents but he's got a lot of company...

But, with that said, he is the one I am *most worried* about....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:26 PM

Yeh... George's resume looks like a list of Lincoln's mistakes... Um... are we supposed to be proud of him?
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: republican president
From: Peace
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:16 PM

Well, Bush has yet to write a Gettysburg Address or grow a beard or but a case of booze for one of his generals. So, when will Bush free the slaves?

Subject: BS: republican president
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 07:09 PM

As a Republican elected president by a minority vote, he's been
      ridiculed by political cartoonists, lampooned by journalists, both here and abroad,   
      and denounced for his lack of diplomatic skills.

      He's been called the original "baboon," a Western hick, a played-out
      imbecile, a murderer, a traitor and a destroyer of the Constitution.
      He's been criticized for having trouble putting sentences together and
      for using earthy language.

      A German newspaper took issue with his faith and criticized him for
      "sanctimoniously using Bible quotations instead of intelligent arguments."
       He's been outspoken on the issue of freedom and resolute with a sense of
       destiny. While many around him called for compromise, without consulting
       Congress, he took steps that led to war.
       Would a president like this deserve to be immortalized on a national
       monument like Mount Rushmore?
       He did and he was.

       You thought I was talking about George W. Bush.
      > >
       I'm speaking of none other than the now profoundly revered
       Abraham Lincoln.