BS: Who designs these things?

Subject: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:24 AM

DVD and video players.

They have connections on the back where you can't get to them. Not only that they often recess the connections.

Then they label them with tiny raised black letters on black plastic.

So you have to buy extra long leads so that you can pull the machine out to get to the back, then you still have to get a magnifying glass and a flashlight to read the letters.

I wish someone would pay me money to design crap like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:27 AM

Had a neighbour wh needed to change a spark plug on his then-new truck (was about seven years back). He found the one he had to change way the hell behind the motor and getting at it required a tool ya could only draw if ya did 1000 mcg of bad acid first.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:36 AM

Yeah Peace, they should take all car designers out in a blizzard, give them a set of K-Mart tools and make them strip down and repair parts that they designed.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 03:15 AM

Yeah, I wish each component had a single USB cable that handled everything, including power. Computers seem to be finally improving, but audio-visual equipment is getting worse.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,DB
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 04:00 AM

You should always remember that, in any 'modern' business - even ones who claim to be 'hi-tech', the technical people are regarded as lowly, expendable menials. The company will be run by marketeers - big-mouthed, know-nothing egomaniacs usually in their 20s and 30s. These people are a menace and it is no wonder that the things they sell are often badly designed.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 04:19 AM

I noticed the headlights on my car weren't very bright and decided it was actually running on sidelights. Changing the right hand bulb was easy, but I couldn't get at the left. In the end, even a garage mechanic couldn't get at it and we ended up booking the car in for a service, removing the battery and the rack it sat on and then re-installing the whole lot again. For a bulb.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:35 AM

A Chrysler built Military Truck (experimental prototype) that I participated in testing ca. 1966 actually did require that you unbolt the engine mounts and lift the engine a minimum of 10 inches to change the oil filter - every 1,000 miles of the 80,000 mile test.

The (dis)service manual for a 1970 Chevrolet Van that I once had specified unbolting the engine and raising it 3 inches to change one (the #8) sparkplug. That's how they did it if you paid an "authorized service agency" to do a tuneup for you. (Recommended every 30,000 miles.) I "redesigned" that one with a hacksaw to remove about a half inch of a sheetmetal flange (non-structural) to provide enough clearance to make the change without any such crap.

On a number of the "raised black letters on black plastic" I've used "Wite-Out" or "Liquid Paper" typewriter correction fluid to paint the tops of the letters* so that they're much easier to see; although it doesn't avoid having to drag the device out of place to get it where they can be seen.

* You can also just smear it on and wipe it off the tops.

Manufacturers and their advertising/marketing people, especially for anything that's considered a "consumer" item, have no interest in whether it can be used. Their only interest is whether people will pay their money and carry it out of the store. The mantra is "Made to Sell -- Not to Use."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 07:47 AM

I knew someone who raced Porches (about 911's or the next later model, can't remember exactly). He said the only way to change the spark plugs way to drop the engine out completely - that only took about 15-20 mins to finish the job completely - trying to do it any other way took hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 08:35 AM

I once spent about 9 hours helping an experienced mechanic change an alternator belt on one of those mid 1980s "sporty" little cars - name not recalled. We knew the "book" said pull the engine, but we didn't have an engine jack to do that. His daughter called me to see if I had a slightly unique tool, which I had; but we ended up fabricating several other "very special purpose" tools before we got the job done. Fortunately he had some scrap iron and a welder...

I once considered buying a very conservative Fiat family sedan (124?)until I learned that an oil filter change (every 600 miles?) required removing 38 screws to drop the full belly pan before you could get to the filter. The pan was about 6 feet long, and heavy enough that the service book recommended "an assistant" to help put it back on.

Several fairly recent model trucks had front "ball-joints" that can be safely lubricated only if you jack the vehicle up to remove the weight from the suspension. If you had enough pressure (about 125 psi) to force grease into one with the weight on it, it would split the housing and destroy the joint. GM finally got smart after a couple of years and put a small shield over the grease fitting. When you jacked it up, the rotation of the lower control arm moved the shield out of the way so you could get a grease gun onto the fitting. Ten years later mechanics were still cursing that "hard to reach" fitting, and still trying to "grease without jacking" because GM never explained why they did it that way in the service manuals.

Horror stories abound in the auto trades. It only really gets scary when you talk about airplanes.

Home electronics usually are just annoying.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 09:37 AM

Food processors get my back up. Who designed them with all those ridges, lips and interesting fluting? I'll tell you who, PEOPLE WHO HAVE NEVER WASHED UP IN THEIR LIVES!! That's who. All those pictures of a newly manicured hand rinsing a pristine blender jug under a tap..... bet they never had to pick bits of pureed carrot out of the blades....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:15 AM

It is just stories like this that make me appreciate some improvements in a few things in recent years. A VCR with front panel jacks for dubbing etc...and a PC with a 2nd set of mic & USB jacks behind a sliding front panel, (along with slots for major camera cards).

There will always be enough horror stories, but with a teeny bit of care, you may be able to avoid the worse ones.

(An old boss of mine bought an early Edsel, and told stories about mechanics cursing because there was almost no easy way to get AT many engine parts.)

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:18 AM

Reiterating...things are not necessarily designed with their use in mind, although the marketplace is much more of a patchwork quilt these days, with some lovely glaring exceptions to what is being discussed here. Anyone shopped at IKEA lately? And SOME electronics DO have excellent designs, and so do some other products as well. But all too often things are not designed well enough.

I remember reading a book back in the early 70s called "How Things Don't Work" that talked about this very phenomenon. One thing mentioned in the book that stuck out in my mind was the ubiquitous can opener. The more common ones failed to consider the can that they opened. They created two very sharp edges once their work was done. Another (superior design) opener actually rolled the sharp edge under to create two safer edges and a fited can top that could be replaced to cover the unused portion of the contents.

Never figured out why the good one never made a bigger splash in the marketplace. They are still available in some home speciality shoppes, but do not come close to dominating the sales figures. So much for the free market assuring that superior ideas and gadgets rise to the top.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Alba
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 04:45 PM

"On a number of the "raised black letters on black plastic" I've used "Wite-Out" or "Liquid Paper" typewriter correction fluid to paint the tops of the letters* so that they're much easier to see;"

That's a really good idea John.
Thanks for the tip.

Liz, right there with you on the design of Food processors.
One that sat proudly on my Cabinet top for all to see is now at the back of a cupboard. Cleaning the grooves and niches was a nightmare...... but it looked nice when I bought it..**BG**

Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:07 PM

I've had the same problem with the food processors, but a friend who has the real "Cousin Art" (her name for it) seems to use it for nearly every meal and just tosses all the parts that need cleaning into the dishwasher. The cheap ones I've had all said they were "dishwasher safe" - and I'll admit they didn't destroy the dishwasher, but about 3 times through the dishwasher and the plastic was pretty well destroyed.

That may be a place where buying the "premium brand" is worth it, although I haven't really investigated how much difference there is in the various kinds.

Cooking utensils in general are an area where it's extremely difficult to find anything functional, although everything looks really flashy on the rack at the sellers. Spatulas, serving ladles, etc invariably have handles that fall off. Bowls won't stack, so they take exhorbitant space in the cabinets. ... I've been looking for a usable pastry rolling pin for about three years now, with no success in local markets.

An article in the local rag this morning comments on how the publishers of recipe books can't use instructions like "saute," "fold in," etc, because "modern cooks" are so ignorant don't know what the terms mean. The old editions used to explain what those "exotic terms" meant, but I guess the new generation can't read big words either.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:11 PM

Nuclear power plants that leak. But hey--don't worry, they all leak, and the Bush administration has a great energy plan to build more.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: frogprince
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 05:15 PM

Some little Chevy sedans, Monza I think (not the Corvair Monza)also had to have the engine at least loosened on the mounts to get the back spark plugs. That car was designed for a rotary engine, then fitted with a piston engine when G.M. abandoned plans to use a rotary. When the word got out about the sparkplug situation, someone from the media got a chance to ask a G.M. exec how they explained something like that. He said, "we call that a design variation".

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 07:30 PM

Some time back, my wife and I got a Sony bookshelf system (pretty big for a bookshelf, but we keep it on top of a low bureau) that includes a CD player (up to three CDs, all possible formats), an AM/FM tuner complete with programmable pre-sets, a dual cassette deck, and a couple of features I haven't figured out yet. We liked the sound of it in the store, and I read lots of reviews and consumer reports before we bought it, and it was rated best in the category by several sources. With four good-sized speakers and a sub-woofer, it has a terrific sound, with enough oomph (450 watts) that, were we not the neighborly type, we could get the whole building organizing a lynch mob to come and get us.

But—it has two rows of buttons down each side of the front panel and an instrument cluster in the center that doesn't look like an instrument cluster from a few feet away. All the controls are labeled with black letters on what appears to be a brushed aluminum surface, but the lettering is very, very small. With the rows of buttons and the instrument cluster, you can change radio stations, start and stop CDs, skip cuts or whole CDs if you want, start, stop, and record cassettes from various inputs, along with the usual fast-forward and reverse, etc., for CDs and cassettes, plus all sorts of tone adjustments. We can go to sleep or wake up to the radio or a CD if we like. Very versatile. It will do just about everything but wind the cat, put out the clock, and brew the morning coffee. And it has a remote!

But after reading the manual that comes with it while studying the machine itself, I've come to the conclusion that to figure out all the features of the thing—and then, which combination of buttons to press to make them work—would take a committee of NASA engineers, a whole firm of Philadelphia lawyers, and a couple of psychics to figure out. The remote is just as enigmatic.

And I used to be a radio announcer, run broadcast boards, produce commercials and newscasts, and run all kinds of electronic equipment. And I have an FCC First Class Radiotelephone Operator's license.

Another snarl:

I'm sure that lots of orthopedic equipment is not designed by the people who actually have to use it—or, for that matter, who even try it out before putting it on the market. For years, the hand-grips on aluminum forearm crutches came equipped with a rubber grip cover like those on the handlebars of a bicycle. After using the crutches to walk a block or two, the palms of your hands would start to burn from holding onto the rubber grips. For decades, this was all that was available, but a few years back, someone got smart and started making them out of plastic.

I have an electric power wheelchair (Clicky). Great machine. It gets up to 25+ miles on an overnight battery charge, it can tackle fairly steep grades, manage rough terrain, and it's amazingly maneuverable. It can turn within its own radius (you could sit in one spot and spin if so inclined). But whoever designed the electronic controller that sits in front of the armrest just wasn't thinking. You can change the speed setting on it from a slow creep up to six-and-a-half miles per hour (a fair jogging speed) with the twist of a small rheostat. But to operate the joy-stick that you use to steer the thing and modulate the speed within the range you've set on the rheostat, the heel of your hand has to rest on the rheostat. Small movements of you hand while operating the joy-stick can inadvertently move the bloody rheostat, and you could find yourself suddenly speeding up or slowing down. So I have to really watch it when I'm cruising down the sidewalk in my Tom Swift electric chariot. When designing it originally, it would have been no problem at all to set the damned thing to one side or the other—or in front of the joy-stick, and the problem wouldn't occur.

They ought to put out beta versions of these things before they start marketing them!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 08:41 PM

And speaking of wheelchairs, there is the matter of those who allegedly design public areas for wheelchair access.

In a medical building near where I live (yes, a building full of clinics and doctors' offices!), the booth in the men's room is wide enough to easily accommodate a wheelchair, and it's complete with grab-bars. Very good! But the entrance to the rest room itself:   you have to enter a small alcove, then turn 90^o to get through the door to the restroom itself. There is not enough room in the alcove to turn a wheelchair 90^o! All the rest rooms in the building are designed that way. Useless!

This sort of thing is a common problem in private homes. The entrance to the bathroom is often a 90^o turn from a hallway, and both the hallway and the door are too narrow for the wheelchair to make a 90^o turn. A wider hall, or, easier, a wider doorway would solve the problem.

I encountered another rest room in a public building in which, once again, there was a large booth complete with grab-bars. The problem was that the door didn't swing out like they do on a properly designed wheelchair accessible booth, it swung in. So when you backed into the booth, the door was between you and the toilet. And with you and your wheelchair in the booth, you couldn't swing the door closed to get it out of the way. Again, useless!

It would be idiot-simple just to have someone who uses a wheelchair do a run-through on these things before declaring them finished. Or better still, have someone who uses a wheelchair involved in the design.

I've written a fairly long article on accessibility problems that I've run into during the past fifteen years, but it's too long to post here. Fairly humorous, but with a bit of a bite to it. I take a sort of Dave Barry approach to the problem. Gotta send it in to some appropriate magazine.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 09:26 PM

Some companies, unnamed, design their parts that way deliberately. The idea is to force the customer to bring it in to an authorized shop so they can make a few extra bucks on the service parts. That and they may also design them to require special tools that only their techs have.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 02:04 AM

Don Firth:

At the link you gave for your chair, there is a downloadable "operators manual" that shows 3 different controllers, none of which look like they have the rheostat speed control you described. That raises the possibility that your chair is the beta model and they have changed the controllers for newer models. It might be worth talking to your dealer about whether a controller replacement might be possible; but it depends of course on whether it's worth it to you and of course on whether other things might have to be u$p$g$r$a$d$e$d to accomodate a different one.

The problem is similar to the laptop computers with the "touch pad" mouse built in just below the space bar. If you inadvertently brush against the touch pad while typing, the insertion point moves as if you'd "moused it" to some new position. If you're a touch-typist and don't watch the display at all times, you may find your text mangled into disconnected fragments splattered all over the place.

You can turn off the touch pad, but if you plug in an external "real mouse" it's on the same connection as the touch pad, so the pad has to be turned on for a normal (cheap) add-on mouse to work. Fortunately, a "USB Mouse" will work with the pad turned off (on the ones I've seen); but you have to figure that out for yourself. The documentation that comes with most such laptops doesn't mention the problem. (My observation has been that most people who think laptops are just as good as a real computer are "two fingered typists," so their opinions are easy to ignore. There are a few exceptions of course.)

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: jonm
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:06 AM

Volkswagen Golf GTi : removal and replacement of headlamp bulb on (UK) offside requires the front bumper to be detached and lowered to allow the lamp unit to by moved forward (there is insufficient room behind it). An hour's dealer labour. As an alternative, get the version with Xenon lamps - then you have to remove the bumper and lamp unit entirely, three hours' dealer labour. And no, the special tool required to remove the bumper is not commercially available!

I can't say I mind the small indistinctly-labelled buttons on home stereo equipment too much - you get used to the major operations quickly. What gets me is the stereo systems where the buttons are even smaller and even more indistinctly labelled, which are "designed" for use in the car i.e. for operation by feel alone without taking concentration from the job of driving.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:22 AM

Morris Minor - otherwise largely user-friendly, but:

Brake Master cylinder: dismantle right hand front suspension, remove torsion bar, finally access the bolts that secure the master cylinder inside the chassis rail. (or CAREFULLY grid heads off bolts without nicking the torsion bar, then replace them fromt he other side, the way it should have been done in the first place)

Heater control valve - easiest to remove the cylinder head.

Bypass hose - either remove water-pump or remove cylinder head, unlsess you retrofit concertina hose.

Gearbox - the support crossmember has two bolts at eather end, that are securid incaptive nuts inside the chassis rails. Result? the bolts rust in the captives, and applying excesive force destroys the captive housing so now the but and bolt go round and round together. ALso the gearbos cover in the car had 38 (if I remember correctly) phillips-headed quarter witworth bolts. The early models had brass ones that did NOT rust in. Later some accountant designated them as mild steel, with the reuslt that they rusted in. Excessive force would strip the Phillips heads, and then you had to drill 38 little bolts out!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:40 AM

"But after reading the manual that comes with it while studying the machine itself, I've come to the conclusion that to figure out all the features of the thing—and then, which combination of buttons to press to make them work—would take a committee of NASA engineers, a whole firm of Philadelphia lawyers, and a couple of psychics to figure out. The remote is just as enigmatic."

Don, the answer is easy... get a four year old child to play with it. Limpit can work our video camera far quicker and easier than we can.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Moses
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:27 AM

In the newly refurbished ladies toilets in my place of work, the toilet pan is situated centrally between the two side walls. There is only just enough room for the sanitary disposal unit to slide between the toilet pan and the wall so that it is impossible to sit on the loo without also sitting on the disposal unit.

Would it have been too much effort to have sited the toilet pan off-centre so that there would have been room to fit the disposal unit by one side of the loo with space to allow a little distance between the sitter and the disposal unit?

Almost all new loos have this fault. The designers KNOW they will be installing a disposal unit. Are they brain-dead?

I personally like the very old loos that were designed in Victorian times that HAD to be big to accomodate the voluminous dresses fashionable at that time. Todays loos are barely large enough to be able to stand in front of the pan and close the door behind you!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:29 AM

They're designed for 4 year old children with an adult's wallet...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:34 AM

I was addressing your post LTS, not Moses... I think...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 11:36 AM

I've always suspected that "Intelligent Design" was an oxymoron.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 03:22 PM

I symapthise with yourwheelcahir problem Don. I had a friend in England who was a polio survivor and had lost the use of his legs.

He was issued an invalid carriage with a kick start.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 06:06 PM

Has anyone else here wasted a couple of bucks on a "garden weasel"; the thing actually works pretty well -- for maybe 30 seconds at a time. That is literally about how long you can use it before an essential set screw loosens up again.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:19 PM

". . . invalid carriage with a kick start."

John Hockenberry, television newsman and former NPR foreign correspondent, is paraplegic due to a spinal cord injury when he was 19. In his remarkable book, Moving Violations, he describes flagging down a taxi in New York City (which was somewhat unusual in itself, because he said that generally when cab drivers see the wheelchair, they tend to drive right on by). He transferred from his wheelchair into the back seat of the cab. The driver just kept sitting behind the wheel. He and Hockenberry sat there and stared at each other for awhile. Finally, Hockenberry said, "Aren't you going to put my wheelchair into the trunk (boot)?" The driver said, "Hey, man, I gotta bad back!" To which Hockenberry replied, "You have a bad back!!???"   

Sometimes I suspect that thinking is becoming a lost art.

Regarding the power wheelchair controller, thanks for calling my attention to that, John.

The controllers shown in the PDF owner's manual are somewhat different from the one that came on my power chair. Figure 27 shows a much more logical layout than on mine, as do the other illustrations. I notice that in the one shown in Fig. 27, the speed control consists of a couple of "speed/profile" increase and decrease keys rather than a rheostat, and the whole shebang is positioned in front of the joy-stick where it ergonomically ought to be. And it has a couple of other features that mine doesn't have.

I got my "Jazzy" (why do they always have to give these things "cutesy" names?) about five years ago, so I guess the controller that came with mine was either a "beta" version, or maybe enough owners griped and squawked about the location and nature of the speed control that they redesigned it.

Now, I wonder if my chair can be equipped with one of the newer ones—and how much it might cost. I'm going to check it out.

Again, thanks!

On the laptop computer touchpad thing, I had a Dell Inspiron for about three years, and I was having the "Where the hell did the cursor go!??" problem all the time. But the Dell hauled off and died one day. I replaced it with a HP Pavilion zv5000z (great machine, with all kinds of neat options!). I've used the touchpad a lot, but lately I've switched over to a USB mouse and turned the touchpad off. Nice feature.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: bobad
Date: 20 Mar 06 - 07:26 PM

frogprince - use Loctite on it - won't loosen.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Scoville
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 11:18 AM

(Warning--I don't know ANYTHING about computers or electronics)

So, we have some cordless keyboards and mice here at work. Has this technology been adapted to DVD player/TV connections? Seems like you could make a fortune if you could make it reliable.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Joybell
Date: 21 Mar 06 - 05:35 PM

We have these toilet paper dispensers in our public restrooms that won't let you get at the paper. Big round metal things with a narrow slot underneath. After about 10 minutes you might just be able to get hold of a few torn pieces the size of postage stamps. Saves on paper of course.

Also our DVD player is pre-programed to say "Hello" and "Good-bye" and tell us our bio-rhythms but everything else is REALLY hard to set up on it. Even the antenna man couldn't tune in the channels. We've never been able to record from the TV on it. He could have checked up on his bio-rhythms though. Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:35 PM

The award for bad design in 2007 has to go to Bissel. We recently bought one of their vacuum cleaners and it has to be the worst design I've ever seen (worse than Volvo, and you know how I feel about them).

On the first day it picks up dirt fairly well. But don't go near it without your shoes on because it is top heavy and falls over at the slightest touch. It is heavy and gives your bare toes a healthy whack, Ouch!!!.

On the second day it clogs up, because there are several small airways in it that won't allow the smallest piece of paper to pass (Now why did I buy a vacuum cleaner? It wasn't to pick up pieces of dirt and paper was it?).

So you have to dismantle it to clean it out (remember the days when you could just change the bag? Well this one is advertised as being easier because you don't have a bag). Out comes the Philips screwdriver and you take it all apart. Then you get your wire coathanger which you straighten out and put a hook in the end to try to unclog the thing.

Finally you get it unblocked. You then empty the box and wash out one of the filters. The other filter has to be replaced, but the store (Home Depot), where you bought the machine doesn't stock the replacement filters. AND, nor does ANY STORE IN TOWN. In fact the cleaner doesn't even have the size of the replacement filter printed ANYWHERE on it.

So, not knowing where to buy the replacement, you make do with a generic piece of filter cloth which you cut down to size.

GREAT! you've got it working again - FOR ANOTHER DAY.

So back to ...The award for bad design in 2007 has to go to Bissel...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Sorcha
Date: 20 Jan 08 - 11:57 PM

Bert, did you mention you hate Bissel?

Sorry buddy, just had to do that.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:01 AM

Oops! I'm not sure that I quite got the worst there. I also bought a Black and Decker Juicer. The picture on the box showed a model with an input container with some fruit in it and an output container almost full of juice. When I tried it, I filled the input with fruit and turned it on. It thrashed and ground and spat out juice all over the counter top and the output container had less than a quarter of an inch of juice in it.

It went back to the store the next day.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:05 AM

Then there is the Cuisinart toaster.

The slots aren't big enough to take a full slice of bread.
You have to run it at least two times to get the toast brown.
AND it doesn't have a removable panel in the bottom to remove the crumbs; so if you get a piece of bread break off, you have to turn it upside down and shake it and hope that the piece falls out.

Next time I'm buying a toaster from an antique store.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:06 AM

It's not Bissel that I hate, but bad designers.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:15 AM

And then there are traffic engineers!!! Who pays these people? They are of course paid with public (YOUR) money.

Here in Colorado Springs, You come up to some traffic lights and there is a left turn lane. But NO LEFT TURN LIGHT! How the Fu** are you supposed to turn when there is a lot of traffic?

Do you pull out and hope that there is a gap before the light changes (and get a ticket for running a red light if it doesn't) or do wou wait and block the road for ten light changes?

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Sorcha
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:22 AM

Yes, Bert, that is exactly what you do. Take a chance, Columbus did!
Just take your life in your hands and GO FOR IT!

PS...did you know that in most places left turns are actually illegal? The only time you get cited is if you are involved in a crash. You are technically 'in the wrong' because you were in the wrong lane making the turn.






Yea, yea...I'm going to bed now.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:33 AM

...PS...did you know that in most places left turns are actually illegal? - So why design a left turn lane?

Sleep tight!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:55 AM

There are SOME companies where the engineers--not the marketing guys -- are the deciders, and the problems and pleasures of actual use of a technical instrument are the first concern, They are typically founded by engineers who are also too smart to let bureaucracy run rampant. I work for one, and it is satisfying. Just so you know it is not all insanity out there.

And there is Steve Jobs.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:54 AM

In my area, left turns not only were legal, but the person turning left had the "right of way" over any vehicles approaching from the opposite direction - at least up to around 1960 or so. That particular rule survived from the days long before "turn lanes" of any kind, and was to allow a driver who had to stop in the middle of the highway to turn to "get the f&@#$&! out of the way" as quickly as possible.

The rule doesn't appear in current regulations that I've found, and I don't find any indication of whether it was changed or just forgotten. Quite probably it was changed "officially"¹ when the rule-makers finally caught on to what most drivers then knew - that being right doesn't mean you'll live through attempting to assert your right.

¹ There was a massive general revision of statutes sometime around 1960, and I believe it was then that they amended the State Statute from a century earlier that said - verbatim: "If two trains meet on the same track both shall come to a complete stop and neither shall move until the other is gone."

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The PA
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:08 AM

What every home needs is a 17 year old.

Our's programs, connects, sets-up everything. The latest being his dads new laptop. Out of the box 2 hours - later all done, webcam the lot.

Its second nature to them cos they're not scared that they'll buggering it up. Tims been brought up with technology from the age of 4 at first school (and probably before when you consider todays modern toys).

I can rent him out if you like for a reasonable hourly charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:47 AM

I recently bought a mobile phone (Nokia). I haven't owned one for a while because, normally, I have very little use for one (all those people walking around with one glued to their heads must, surely, be much more important than me and must have lots of interesting things to say?).

Anyway,I thought I'd just check the manual to find out how to make and receive calls (surely the basic functions of a phone?). These functions weren't covered until page 12 - and two thirds of this page was taken up with how to make "conference calls" - very useful!

One of my key criteria for judging manufacturers of electronic equipment, software etc. is by how clear their manuals are. I have removed Nokia from my list of 'good' manufacturers.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:54 AM

I keep telling a colleage in wotk that he ought to become a design consultant for the disabled. He has had a lot of experience escorting his wheelchair bound wife.
Problems such as the RADAR key(for the disabled toilets) being kept in the upstairs office, disabled toilets in a new building being upstairs, whether a couple should use the gents or the ladies etc.

He does say the the Royal Albert Hall is the most user freindly concert venue that he has been to though, and he got in free as his wife's carer.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: kendall
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:32 AM

I think I could do a major overhaul on our 1930 Ford in less time than it would take to change a headlight bulb in our 2002 Dodge van.

That old Ford is a pleasure to work on. Every part is visable and easy to get at. (I have a wife like that).

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:16 AM

Looks like Kendall and the PA are headed for the cellar...

PA - "I can rent him out if you like for a reasonable hourly charge."... isn't that sort of illegal? If not, put me down for a couple of hours next Saturday evening.

I'd like to meet the guy who designs food processors with lots of sharp angles and interesting ridges in the bowls... absolute bugger to get all the cake mix out of mine because it's a cylinder - sharp angle where the bottom joins the sides - it has a depression for no apparent reason which none of my spatula or spoons will fit into - and the mix creeps up the centre spindle and into the socket on the mixing blade so I lose cake mix up there and it's the very devil to clean if you can't find the miniature bottlebrush.

The picture on the box shows it being rinsed clean under the tap... all I can say is that it must have been through the dishwasher twice before that picture was taken!

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The PA
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:21 AM

LTS - Sorry he's busy with my new car cd player! and I dread to think what's lurking in my food mixer, I've had it 20 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: MaineDog
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:51 AM

Guest,DB is on the right track. It's about selling stuff whether it works or not. Most things are not designed or engineered, just cobbled together to look good to a certain subset of foolish (targeted) consumers, especially those who have been identified as needing to be the first ones on the block to buy the newest widget.
I am not exempt from this problem. My list of unacceptable stuff that I have bought is far too long.
MD