BS: Who designs these things?

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 09:57 AM

I've got a Nokia phone Shimrod. I don't think I ever looked at the manual, just key in the number and hit the green button to make a call.

One reason I chose Nokia was that I saw someone lose one out of their car once. It bounced along the road, then it was hit a few times by other cars. The owner came back and found it and it still worked.

But Kyocera are on my bad list because the numbers wore off the buttons, they were just painted on. Neither Kyocera or Verizon would honor the warranty. Verizon said it was Kyocera's fault and Kyocera said it was normal wear and tear and offered to sell me a new faceplate.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: MaineDog
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 10:09 AM

I used to have a cell phone that had a really handy feature. You could program it to turn itself off after so many minutes of disuse, so as to save the battery.
To turn the phone on, you merely had to hit the on button once.
To turn it off you had to hold the button down for about 10 seconds. So it would seem that the auto turn-off feature would be really useful.
The problem was that its setting was forgotten every time you turned it off, so it always reverted to easy on, tough off. Go figure.
MD

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:03 PM

Changine a headlamp bulb on my Nissan is easy enough if you don't mind loosing most of the skin off the back of your hand.

On the other hand on my old Lada you could get at just about everything in the engine but the down side was that you needed to, regularly. The best bit was converting it to take unleaded petrol. Took me longer to open the bonnet than to adjust the timing. My mother's Fiesta required a trip to the dealer.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:12 PM

Liz:

Most of the curves and flutes are designed to ensure the contents get down to the blades and don't jam up in the corners. That's what a blender is supposed to do, right?

If the sides were just flat, the theory goes, the stuff in certain mixes would cling to them, or stack up in the corners.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 12:22 PM

Yes, there are a lot of machines out there with badly designed features for servicing and disassembly, no doubt about it.

But in the field of plastic model kits, I am happy to say, they just keep getting better and better! Why? Vicious competition, that's why, driven originally by the brilliantly high quality stuff that starting coming out of Japan in the 70's...and now just about everything that's coming out anywhere is simply worlds beyond what was available back in the "old days" of plastic modeling.

If it isn't, nobody buys it! ;-)

The accuracy, detailing, and fit on models now is incredible. The authenticity is superb. The packaging, decals, paints, and accessories are wonderful. The reference books have everything in them that you could possibly want to know.

What more could they do to improve these kits? Darned if I know. They have reached virtual perfection.

Same goes for wooden plank-on-frame kits of old sailing ships. Marvelous quality.

And then there are guitars...and electronic keyboards...man, the variety and quality that's out there now is almost beyond belief. There are so many fine handmade guitars out there now, and they have those great little touches, like the compensated saddle to correct the intonation on the individual strings. Great stuff! And there are some wonderful capos now too.

We are living in the golden age when it comes to model kits and musical instruments.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 02:49 PM

Scart leads are my biggest bug-bear, time out of number they refuse to connect, has anyone tried connecting them to the flat TV`s, they are situated at the back of the TV and are designed for hanging from a wall of your home, if sitting on a platform as mine is the Scart leads are almost impossible to connect.
I hate Scart leads.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 03:39 PM

The automatic-drip electric coffeemaker is the source of so much poor craftsmanship and so many good-but-obviously-not-fully-thought-through ideas that I can't look at one without shaking my head.

Most obviously, the carafes seldom pour worth a damn. Being able to pour a cup of coffee without making a mess is a feat worthy of a standing ovation. Having made hundreds of ceramic pitchers myself, I can tell you that it's not that hard to make a spout that works. How the coffeemaker folks can manage to make millions of them that don't is a mystery.

Then there are the coffeemakers with the little spring-operated drip-stop features that let you pour a cup before the batch has completely finished brewing without making a mess. They do that job pretty well, but they regularly hang up, overfill the brewing basket, and make a royal mess. The worst offenders are the ones with removable carafe lids that must be put on properly to prevent basket overflows. Don't the morons who design these things realize that the people who are going to be using them have usually just woken up and that they're not fully capable of doing anything that requires memory, logic, or more than three sequential steps? Granted, most carafes for drip-stop featured coffee-makers nowadays do have supposedly idiot-proof non-removable lids, but even they can create overflows if the carafe isn't fully inserted into its little nook.

And there's my current coffeemaker which exhibits a design flaw so fundamental that I can't imagine how the thing ever got on the market. The carafe holds more water than the water reservoir! I kid you not. If you fill the carafe anywhere near completely full of water and pour it into the reservoir, it overflows. If making something work involves filling A with a substance and pouring it into B, even the most lame-brained simpleton should know that B has to have at least the holding capacity of A!

And another thing that makes no sense to me is coffeemakers with a "dial-a-brew" type feature that allows you to make stronger or weaker coffee using the same amount of ground beans. If three scoops makes too strong a pot of coffee to suit you, just keep on putting three scoops in the basket, but turn the little knob to "less strong" and it performs some coffee weakening magic. Why not just put fewer scoops in the basket?

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:43 PM

That's just it Amos, the stuff sticks in the angle of the side and base, or else it creeps up the inside of the blade holder...

it's a bugger to scrape out.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 04:54 PM

Liz:

Fill it with piping hot water and detergent and let it run for a half-hour.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 05:05 PM

Have you seen what happens to detergent when agitated at high speeds? I tried that once and spent the rest of the day getting foam off the floor.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: MuddleC
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 06:23 PM

...what about the glorious invention of the automated telephone answering machine?? No, I don't mean the simple one with a tape recorder ..that worked fine... I mean '..welcome to the Acme Customer helpline, all calls are recorded to security and training purposes... please choose from the following options..press 1 to be patronised, press 2 to be lost in space.,.press 3 to hear totally unrelated information, etc.etc..from level one.. all the way down to level six, and still not the option I wanted....AAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHH!
----pressed '0' at one point..... got a human!!...who wasn't on the same continent and whoose accent was so bad that I had to tell him to shut up and just answer 'yes' or 'no' to my questions!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:11 PM

Liz -

Dishwasher soap - for the automatic dishwasher - is formulated to minimize foaming. Pre-rinsing dishes with ordinary "dishwashing" soap before putting them in the automatic washer can, in fact, prevent proper cleaning since even tiny amounts of residual "ordinary soap" makes enough bubbles to kill the efficiency of the water impact that's supposed to knock the crap off the dishes. (Even tiny bubbles make excellent shock absorbers.)

A very small amount of "automatic dishwasher soap" would be sufficient, and shouldn't make more than minimal suds even in a food processor.

And for getting the last of the suds rinsed down the drain after hand-washing things, cold water is much quicker than warm, since it reduces the "sudsing" action.

For killing really persistent suds, a sprinkle of "Epson Salts" (usually sodium sulphate) is very effective, and is kept on hand by many laundromat operators for clearing machines that people have overloaded with suds. Getting rid of the suds actually has little effect on the "cleaning power" of a detergent. The "bubbles" are added only because people expect to see them - and are really there only for marketing purposes.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:42 PM

My new Dell has four USB inputs plus earphone and some other stuff in front, as well as the usual in back. Really nice.
My wife couldn't get the hang of that touchpad on her laptop, but a cordless mouse has made her happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:49 PM

May I say a word in support of the modern automobile, most of which are now very well designed, again due primarily to the influence of the Japanese, who showed the rest of the world a thing or two about designing really good cars.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 07:59 PM

Ah, Little Hawk, you are mistaken there. They learned everything they knew from us here in the good ole USA; they learned how to do it better from one of our Process Improvement gurus. It is just that they were much more willing to listen and apply it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:50 PM

I once heard (or read) this quote from a designer, in reference to a "push" and/or "pull" sign on a door:

"When something as simple as a door requires instructions, there is something wrong with the design."

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Rapunzel
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 08:11 AM

I used to have a Ford Ka - lovely drive. All the commonly driver accessible things under the bonnet - oil, screenwash, etc - were brightly colour coded. The salesman said it was designed for women drivers, which seems sexist, but maybe true. Either way, it made life easy - except that to change a headlamp bulb you really needed hands the size of a ten year old...

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: The PA
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 08:20 AM

There used to be saying round our parts, "buy a range rover get a bag of spanners thrown in". Seems its simple to do all jobs with a couple of spanners, 20+ years ago anyway. Not so sure about those new ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:23 AM

Then there's the Phillips DVD player. When you switch it on it automatically goes into 'LOAD' mode so you have to wait there, swearing at it, while it makes up its mind to respond to the eject button.

When it finally opens, you try to take the DVD out but there's a little lip where the finger slots are so you can't get your fingers under the egde of the DVD.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:33 AM

Every part is visable and easy to get at. (I have a wife like that).

kendall
Date: 21 Jan 08 - 08:32 AM

May he rest in peace. Jacqui, when you kill him, just remember the estate owes me one laptop. This one is beyond cleaning.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:48 AM

Japanese cars are not automatically better designed. I had my local shop change the leaky gasket around the oil pan of my Honda. For some reason, that required removing the box that holds transmission fluid. The mechanics said that an American car would not have somehting goofy like that.

About those buttons with tiny labels - I buy peel-off letters at the hardware store and place them above the buttons. For example, PH fits above the PHONO button quite well.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 10:53 AM

Don't talk to me about Japanese cars. Designed by people with little feet and similar brains. I can't drive Rachael's Isuzu with my work boots on because there's no room for my feet.

And how about cell phones with buttons so small that you hit three buttons at once.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:03 AM

They design Safeway stores so that the carts block people from entering or leaving the store.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 11:22 AM

And then they build displays in the aisles so you can't easily get past.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Rapunzel
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:02 PM

Then, just when you've got used to where everything is in the store, they change everything round again to confuse you.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Grab
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:13 PM

Bert, what they don't mention is that the bag of spanners is *inside* the transmission and gearbox. At least all the Landies I've ever seen sound like that!

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 12:42 PM

The Japanese have better quality control than we do, because they work on a different philosophy. They don't simply aim for marketability. They aim for perfection. As a consequence of that, they are constantly improving on what they do as a matter of principle.

And that makes all the difference. I have seen the results of it, not only in the field of auto design, but in many other fields as well.

North American manufacturers are concerned about only ONE thing: will it sell? It can be very flawed, very badly done, but if it sells well, "Who cares?"

That is a shoddy way of doing things, and it results in shoddy workmanship and poor quality products.

The Japanese constantly improve the things they do because it is their philosophy to constantly improve the things they do. That's brilliant. It's a credo that anyone would be wise to follow in any field of endeavour.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: kendall
Date: 22 Jan 08 - 09:37 PM

Poppa Bear said, "My porridge is too cold." and Baby Bear said, "My porridge is too hot"
and Momma Bear said,









Bitch
Bitch
Bitch

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,misty eyes
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:49 PM

What do you do walk away and take it?.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:53 PM

Avoid porridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 12:54 PM

Especially STOLEN porridge!

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:12 PM

Avoid Stollen especially stolen Stollen.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Grab
Date: 23 Jan 08 - 01:29 PM

And Momma Bear said, "Poppa Bear, what's that blonde doing in our bed...?" ;-)

(Dragging it back to music: "My husband's got no porridge in him")

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 07:59 AM

It's a fashion thing. Leads are ugly. and with small equipment is there enough room for all the buttons, DVD tray and display and leads that will obscure the infra red receiver?

Maybe they should make the connections wireless and see what that does to the rf front end of digital TV tuners. You wait till they sell off the old analogue TV spectrum to phone companies. Then look at your digital TV picture. Wireless ain't the answer - PAL.

USA - 2009 not long now, UK 2012 ish

I have my satellite dish ready. Which covers the same stations until snow/rain gets heavy.

Broadband landlines are your only real alternative.

Be thankfull the mess of cables has kept the airwaves clear this long.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: kendall
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 12:24 PM

What do I do? I practice my sailor language and scare the hell out of the dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bee
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 01:28 PM

I'm with Liz on Stuff Designed for Mostly Women to Clean which have crevices and lumps which can't be reached by any cleaning tool larger than a toothpick.

Part of it is price, too. I've started noticing as I get older and smarter (or more pissed off) that, for example, a bathroom sink I can afford will have a gasket around it which will gum up around the edge, and after a few years will reveal it has collected a disgusting toxic goo under, which seeps out endlessly when you try to clean it up. An expensive sink will have a smooth easily cleaned transition between porcelain and vanity top.

Even faucets are hard to clean if they are cheaper ones, like those common clear plastic topped affairs which inevitably get scummy inside and can't easily be taken apart.

Then there are the coffeemakers. You cannot reach down into the water receptacle to clean all the weird curves and crevices (when the vinegar rinse just isn't enough). You cannot clean between those little reinforcing flanges in the bottom of the coffee grounds receptacle. And I've yet to spend enough to get one that makes the water hot enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Joe_F
Date: 24 Jan 08 - 09:15 PM

Bert: Order a Torte instead. Then you can sue.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 06:45 AM

Since the thread started off with a comment about cell phones, perhaps the current US situation as viewed in a recent article would be of interest:

Most Americans are in cell phone jail

Providers have worked hard to lock customers into losing situations

A "customer correspondence" quoted in the article sums up much of it:

I'm currently in the middle of a two-year contract with Verizon Wireless. They just notified me that they are dramatically increasing the charges I pay for receiving each text message from 2 cents to 10 cents.

When I called to complain, they left me with a few choices, and I was unhappy with all of them. I could simply accept the increase in charges. Alternatively, I could sign up for an unlimited text messaging plan for another $5/month, but only if I renew with Verizon for another two years. Or, I could end my contract and pay an early termination fee of $175.

If I don't pay the fee and change my plan to get the best rate for text messaging, then I'm locked in with Verizon for even longer than I originally would have been had they just kept the rates the same. And since the new plan also has an early termination fee, I'll face the same problem if they decide, without my agreement, to change the plan again to suit their needs.

There's more at the link, and other tricks and gimmicks that are common.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 07:19 AM

Ah, the good old Contract handcuffs. I like my phone, I like what it does, how it does it and how much it costs me. I don't like it when they try to upgrade me before I've learned how to use my present phone. When I tell them I don't want an upgrade, they act like I asked for their firstborn child. I've managed to get around it so far, but that's the advantage of being blonde and middle aged.

I'd like to know who designed the door to our washing machine - because it's just broken. If it hadn't been made to look pretty with an outer covering, I could get the springy thing that's fallen out and maybe effect a repair... but I can't get the outer covering off without breaking it completely, so it'll have to have a new door, or we get a new machine.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: GUEST,The black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:00 AM

Don't start me on washing mashines.
I think I'm going to buy a house next to a river with handy size rocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 08:35 PM

I you take your clothes down to the river and beat them with rocks, you will end up wearing the "fertilizer" that runs off the feedlot, along with the "other fertilizer" that runs off the cornfield on the other side a few miles up the stream, the heavy metals dumped by the plating tanks at the manufacturing plant just aroung the bend, and probably will be rendered sterile (or strangely fertile) by the "outdated hormone tablets" flushed down the drain by your sister-in-law two states upstream - if you don't acquire a fatal infection from the "resistant bacteria" created by excessive use of antibiotics at the chicken farm.

Or you might be lucky and just wear clothing with lots of holes beaten into them.

Then there's the down side ...

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Jan 08 - 10:23 PM

Get a home cement mixer. Use like a washing machine. They're really very reliable and you can also use it to pour the driveway.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Jan 08 - 12:30 AM

I always preferred the "hang 'em on a rope and turn a hose on 'em" method, but zoning laws prohibit a "clothesline" in most neighborhoods around here. It you sneak it up after sundown so the neighbors don't squawk, the stuff don' get dry by daylight when ya have to take it all down.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 04:51 AM

Here in Colorado Springs they paint SCHOOL on the roads approaching schools (well they got that bit right) but they put the sign in the fast lane NEARER the school than the sign in the slow lane.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 07:06 AM

1. A 60's Corvette had a panel in the wheel-well to use to get to the spark plugs.

2. The 90 Lumina sedan required one to unbolt half the engine mounts and rotate the engine up 30 degrees to get to the back three plugs- or even get the wires on. This one also had 2 computers and 3 coils for high voltage ( spark)- all of which get replaced when there is a problem.

3. My old 72 Charger had a 400 cu in. engine- which required the removal of the exhaust manifold on the driver's side to get to the rear two sparkplugs.

Has anyone else heard about the problem with the Prius? It seems a main battery cable runs inside the frame over the door- and presents an electrocution hazard to rescue workers who try to cut through to get the driver out.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 07:30 AM

After about three years, Seattle has decided that their five (total cost $5,000,000) "self-cleaning public toilets" weren't working out too well.

A report is that they are offered for sale on eBay right now - starting bid $89,000 each. (Bidding not too fast at last report.)

The article doesn't make completely clear whether they just "didn't work well" - like most of the items discussed in this thread, or whether the real reason was that "the wrong kinds of people" were "working" them, although both complaints were implied.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 07:33 AM

from Bee:

"Part of it is price, too. I've started noticing as I get older and smarter (or more pissed off) that, for example, a bathroom sink I can afford will have a gasket around it which will gum up around the edge, and after a few years will reveal it has collected a disgusting toxic goo under, which seeps out endlessly when you try to clean it up. An expensive sink will have a smooth easily cleaned transition between porcelain and vanity top."

Strange, that they might want to pass on the greater engineering cost of designeing for actual use rather than minimal production cost to the consumer.

I have found that (most) expensive things ( cars, washers, dryers, etc) sem to last longer than the cheaper ones. My solution has been to get the top of the line either used, or after a new model has come out.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: Bert
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM

I find that it is the older things that seem to work better and last longer. An old blender we picked up at a thrift store has a glass bowl that cleans perfectly in the dishwasher.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 02:32 PM

True.

I collect cast iron cookery, and find the 1920s- 1930s seems to be the peak of quality. The cast iron after that point ( ie, after alluminum became the standard for pots) seems porous and brittle.

Subject: RE: BS: Who designs these things?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 02:34 PM

Also, the older items that are so good are

1. the ones that survived to today
2. Often quite expensive in cost at the time they were new
3. made of materials that would be cost-prohibitive today


100!