BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right

Subject: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:25 PM

As of late, I have been engaging my mouth before engaging my brain. As a result, I have said some unkind things and have made poor decisions. Kharma, being what it is, has come to visit. While noting that I had it coming I have made some apologies in order to try and make things right. People have been very gracious yet I am miserable. I know the only thing I can do is move forward and try to not make the same mistakes again yet I am feeling like a failure and wondering why I continue to screw things up. Any suggestions as to how to move forward feeling somewhat positive about doing my best to make things right would be welcomed.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:29 PM

I know the only thing I can do is move forward and try to not make the same mistakes again

That's the important part. Best ofluck.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: jacqui.c
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:37 PM

1. Think before you post about how you would feel if someone else wrote that post to you.

2. Read the post before you send it, not only to check spelling and punctuation but to confirm that this is REALLY what you want to say.

3. Reread just to make sure.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: *daylia*
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 01:39 PM

I'd suggest that you be at least as kind and gracious to yourself as the people you think you hurt have been to you. If you're human, being less than kind (read not perfect) at least once in a while just goes with the territory.

Everyone lives and learns. Or, maybe not everyone learns but apparently you have! So give yourself LOTS of credit for that. Don't allow your ego and human pride to stop you from laughing at your own imperfections, forgiving yourself for past mistakes and letting them go. Only then will you be ready to move forward.

ANd remember - angels can fly because they take themselves lightly!

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:12 PM

You're going through a transitional stage, which could be termed remorse. That's natural. It is also temporary. Focus on what positive things you can do and say for yourself and others now. Do something that makes you and someone else happy. It works.

If you think bad thoughts...bad things happen.
If you think good thoughts...good things happen.
If you think nothing at all...nothing happens! ;-)

Therefore, think good thoughts and then put them into action ASAP.

Best wishes,

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST,Memory of Martin Gibson
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:35 PM

Don't be such a wimp, Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:08 PM

Guest 1:25, there are times I question whether I've progressed beyond the age of 15, when I struck out whether or not my buttons were pushed. Thankfully, most of the time, I realize that my greatest hope for a clear spirit, a hopeful soul and a learning, retentive brain rests in cultivating the love and friendship of people smarter than I, more giving than I, more loving than I. Most of the time, it works.

Good fortune to you.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:36 PM

"Continuing to screw up" is not likely a message straight from yourself to yourself; more likely to be a message acquired from someone else which you have been trained to swallow. It doesn't particularly matter who, as long as you can separate from that source and that message and drop it on the roadside, so to speak. You don't need it, because you have already demonstrated you have the strength to face errors and seek to remedy them. There is an overabundance of voices in the world willing to make nothing out of and nullify; why join forces with them? Whose life energy is it anyway?

Life is in you and of you today; tomorrow is what you make from it.
Who you really are is much better than you are usually given credit for.

A

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:52 PM

Guest 1:25 ... are you Martin Gibson?

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 03:58 PM

Not a chance.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:00 PM

GUEST--welcome to the club. You have a good set of real brass ones. You have done what you can. Never having made a mistake before, I am not exactly sure what you are going thru. (That's a joke!)

If you feel like talkin' to someone who's been in the same boat, message me. It'll be between you and me. Please cut yourself some slack, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:03 PM

The essential characteristic of human beings as opposed to rocks is that while we too have to obey natural laws, and cannot take things back once they have been said or done, we can ask for forgiveness, charity, compassion, or make amends. Whether there is karma or not,   there is room for deep change, which is again not like the law of gravity.   The same thing that gives us room to make mistakes (unlike rocks), gives us room to make amends. Welcome to being flawed!!!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 04:36 PM

Well said, Peter.

Bruce, I think you mispelled the word "massage" in your last post (of 08 Jul 05 - 04:00 PM). ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 05:52 PM

Very good advice. I just wish I could follow it ALL the time. But, sometimes, ya just want bite into that big, juicy hamburger and let all the fixings run down yer chin and ya don't care about... oops.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:29 PM

one of the most pleasing things in the world is watching someone really trying to improve themselves after getting on the wrong side of their relationships. 'Almost' anyone will be forgiven if they show genuine regret and progress! This 'can' be accompanied by direct reference to the situation, but sometimes is best not mentioned, just changed.

(Note...'guest' did NOT say this was specifically a posting problem..)

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:33 PM

So, you'll forgive me, Bill?

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:48 PM

No.... don't answer.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 06:50 PM

*grin*

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:24 PM

NEver mind, Gnu. I forgive you. So there.

A

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:47 PM

Well, since I haven't received any apologies from a Mudcatter who did their best to be very offensive to me lately, I'll cross one guess off of the list of who might this anonymous Mudcatter be?

And since another who has done their darnedest to be as nasty as possible in the past is also posting advice to this thread, I'll take it with a large grain of salt.

No one is perfect, I certainly am not. I can get in there and duke it out with the best of them, but I have a set of rules for myself that stops at name-calling and trying to hurt feelings. Reader interpretation has worked against me in the past--the tone of voice in the head of the reader can make just about anything sound snide, if that is the inclination of the reader. But when I tangle with people who go out of their way to be really offensive or nasty, I find it a disengenuous for them to do an obsequeous "sorry!" and go on as if nothing has happened.

Once Burned, Twice Shy

I have seen a couple of Mudcatters do a real about face when it came to dealing with others, and have been pleased to see them take the mature step forward. The best advice I can offer the anonymous 'Catter is to expect those you've burned to be cautious around you for a while until they see that you really do mean to reform your act.

My final thought: apologizing anonymously carries about a tenth of the weight of signing your name, or your Mudcat moniker, to the statement. Do you really mean it? Then own up to your acts and your contrition completely. Sign on with your own name and I think you'll see that an apology goes a lot farther.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM

Sometimes in the effort to clear things up, you just make them worse. People are not always ready to give a fresh thought to the incident. Some of them dig their heels in.

In AA it's considered important to make amends, unless doing so would cause more pain to the other person.

In the Bible there is some good advice about dealing with a conflict with a neighbor or brother-- in summary, to go first privately to discuss the matter. Then if it's not resolved, take an elder along to help mediate if possible or adjudicate if not "mediable." And if still not resolved, go public.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:20 PM

Go public?! What does the public have to do with it?

What about "Play pass it?" {i.e.= ignore the person who is attempting to get a rise out of you?}

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST,Guest 1:25
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:33 PM

Perhaps I should have made it clear, this is not about an online disagreement. My stupidity and apologies were made person to person.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:01 PM

you've apologised, GUEST - good on you. you deserve respect for looking at the situation and wanting to repair it.

learning to have understanding towards yourself is harder than understanding others. if you've apologised, keep on walking. those who understand how to apologise will walk on with you. those who don't will be stuck behind. be nice to them, one day they'll be walking too.

good luck

freda

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:24 PM

Read your Bible, Azizi, it's all in there.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:25 PM

One additional bit of advice -

Sometime saying sorry is not enough. It is often more effective to follow the apology with a statement that explains what you plan to do or say next time something like that happens.

I don't know the details of your problem but sometimes people do not really believe that you are sorry unless you verbalise a better approach to a disagreement.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST,Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:26 PM

GUEST doesn't say whether or not there were any intoxicating substances involved in this "being stupid". If so, it's pretty darned simple to solve the problem. Note that I said "simple", not "easy". It's usually not easy worth a damn.

There are a couple of Mudcatters who are pretty prone toward getting in their cups, totally misinterpreting what someone else has said, giving them hell for all the wrong reasons, and apologizing for it the next day after they've reread everything with sober eyes. It's no big deal here because it is, after all, only Cyberspace. But if the same type of thing happens regularly in 3D, then somebody needs to take a hard look at their behavior. And drinking/drugging behavior is usually the first thing to look at.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST,Guest 1:25
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:30 PM

No drinking or drugs involved; just a mouth, a big fat mouth and not a brain cell to be seen.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:58 PM

it's called Foot In Mouth disease, guest! its treatable!

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST,TLR
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:07 PM

Susan, so you like giving out orders do you! That was a very rude remark you directed towards Azizi and a sweeping assumption into the bargain! Not nice. Not nice at all.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:16 PM

Thanks GUEST,TLR.

And may I say that some people are easier to play pass than others.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:17 PM

TLR, I dunno what sweeping assumption I could have made; I merely directed her to the source of the information I posted earlier rather than continuing the summary that is better explained in that source material. It's not rude to assume that she's a big girl and can do her own homework. And I doubt she needs you babysitting her.

Some of us don't have 24/7 to post details readily available elsewhere.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:21 PM

Just love the editorializing and shots on this thread. I haven't seen all that many apologies from the editorialists. Ever. There is probably a lesson in there somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:23 PM

Holy Shitfuck, Batman!

This is not a referendum on people posting here in this thread; it's a variety of life experiences shared in a friendly way with someone who asked. What a troll you are, Guest!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST,TLR
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:26 PM

Yes Susan whatever you say.
I doubt very much that Azizi needs me babysitting her and I very much doubt she needs you telling her what to do. So there you have it.
I still think your post was rude. So there you have it.
I do not enjoy reading anyone shoving their Beliefs down someone elses throat. It is arrogant and rude.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: wysiwyg
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:27 PM

TLR,

SHE ASKED ME A QUESTION. I directed her to the answer, you idiot! And the Bible reference was ONE PART of a post containing other info from other sources.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 12:06 AM

Susan, I am not a bible scholar. Perhaps you would be so kind as to direct me to the passage that says, "And if still not resolved, go public."

I do read the bible and use it as a reference on occasion but I don't remember the part about going public with a personal grievance.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: freda underhill
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 12:15 AM

at least, Guest, we have shown in this thread that many of us are just the same as you when it comes to foot in mouth disease - at least you realise it!

advice is a dangerous thing - especially for those who enjoy giving it!

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 01:07 AM

Susan and others,

I would prefer that we drop this sidebar discussion, and move on.

It's a new day and we've more important things to do & to say.

Best wishes,

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 07:04 AM

All you can do is apologize, then stand back for a while to let the steam boil off or the irritation heal over. You can't just go from being pissed off and reacting to laughing about the dumb things you did/said without a bunch of time in between.

The only thing you can do to prevent future occurences is to pay attention to when it starts happening. Let the guilt give you a reason to plan for how you'll deal with anger in the future, then let it go. Maybe you can tell when you're beginning to get pissed off and nip it in the bud or walk away before you do something about it.

Maybe you're beating yourself up over something others have barely noticed. THAT happens too, especially in those with Type A consciences. In this case, your anger-based words and actions aren't the heart of the problem. The problem is that you feel guilty for becoming angry and reacting to anger as any normal person would. Daylia, in the 4th post to this thread, talked about treating yourself with the same kindness as you'd treat another person. What advice would you give another person if they asked what you've asked?

In simple terms, let the person you feel you wronged decide what moral penalty they're gonna impose. If they say "Aw, forget it already," then you have to forget it already.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 07:32 AM

Guest, TLR is just a troll. But trolls don't bother me as much as the reaction to them.

I heard absolutely nothing wrong in what Susan said. I hope she would have said the same to me, because I'm interested in answers. I'm familiar with the "shake the dust from you feet" and move on passage, but I'm not familiar with the "go public" passage.

Original guest, it's hard to answer your original question without more details.

I always hated the "Love means never having to say you're sorry" phrase from the old movie "Love Story," but I do know there is a common bond between people who love each other where there is a tendency to not get offended by words because there might be some misinterpretation.

I once had a boss who was overly conscientious about verbally thanking people and giving them positive credit and praise, even when they didn't deserve it. It was a bit embarrassing for me sometimes, but sure was a wonderful atmosphere in which to work. ie. we would have arguments like, "You did something wonderful" "No I didn't." "Yes you did." ;-)

Original guest, I think it depends on how well you know the person and how well you understand them.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:15 AM

Yo, GUEST, who started this discussion...

Congrates on taking the largest and most important step in changin' the way you deal with others. Apparently, the *reactive* side of yer personality had gotten the upperhand over the *thoughtful* side and you found yerself havin' to backtrack in keeping yer relationships afloat...

Problem is that with all the backtracking and apologizing that with every slip the relationship takes a *hit* no matter the bandaid apologies.

Ive mentined a few times that Einstien said that "Insanity is repeating a behavior expecting different results"... Well, I'm not going to say that yuou are insane but there is a nugget of logic in this quote...

Doctor Phil says it a little differnetly when he asks "Is it working for you?"

Somewhere between these two statements you may find that there is something fundementally wrong with the way you cope with situations. That the bad news... The good news is that there are ways to tweak yourself but it may involve either counselin', meditation, prayer, a change of diet, a change of careers, etc... Each of us is wired differently and what works fir one may not work for others...

But given that you don't want to "repeat the bahavior and expect a different result" I'd think a good start would be a few sessions with a good humanistic counselor...

And I'd shy away from the self help books because they can mess you up...

Good luck, and as bruce said, my PM door is always open...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 08:54 AM

Mary in Kentucky, given your comment, I have to for the moment retract my post of 09 Jul 05 - 01:07 AM as I feel I must say this.

Mary, I disagree with you that Guest TLR is a troll.

I believe that we shouldn't rush to judgment about who is or who is not a troll. IMO, a person is not a troll that person writes a comment or comments that is critical {or is interpreted by others to be critical} of some other person or some position that does not conform with another person's beliefs.

Unlike trolls I have experienced here and elsewhere, it is my opinion that TLR was polite in her {or his} comments. There was no profanity or politically incorrect references used in her {his} comments, and there was no name calling.

In addition, she {or he} also affixed an identifier to the name Guest, which we have recommended the folks do who use that Guest referent.

I know that TLR's comments were in response to a post that was directed to me. However, I believe that I would have thought {if not posted} my assessment of her {his} non-troll demeanor if the comments that TLR had posted were supportive of someone else.

That said, I have no intention of continuing what I consider to be somewhat of a sidebar discussion. I hope that others don't continue it either.

Have a good day.


Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 09:53 AM

I believe that Susan is right and wrong. The order of which she speaks is right, but the passage is directed toward the offended, not the offender.

The offended is to go to the offender privately. If the offender doesn't acknowledge the wrong, then the offended brings an elder with them to confront. If there is still no aknowledgment, then the elder will bring the offense ..... and this is no small thing ..... before the church.

The whole thing is not only part of trying to set things right in the church, but also...

It's not about minor offenses -- the idea was to get the early church to not bring lawsuits against one another before the secular courts. The church was already a terrible pain in society's collective ass, and Paul, mindful of this, and mindful of how much more winsome the church would appear if it was able to settle disputes in love, and not in courts, directed this kind of settlement where possible.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 10:28 AM

It isn't a Pauline passage, Guest; it's in Matthew, and attributed to Jesus.

It applies to any conflict between members of a shared community, regardless of who "started" it. If the offender asks forgiveness and does not receive it, then in the matter of an unforgiving heart, the one who had been the offender has been offended.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 10:36 AM

I doubt it. I guess now maybe it would be a good idea if you rounded that'n up and showed us.

Admittedly I couldn't find the passage either, try as I may with online concordances, but I'm pretty sure it's a church thing, not a gospel thing.

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 11:06 AM

Check out This American Life for the June 3, 2005 program (under the "Episodes/RealAudio, by year originally produced" link on the left). Look for Act Two ("God Said, Huh?") that is Julia Sweeney's talk. This is the best articulation I've heard of late why the christian Holy Bible is the last place I would want to go to learn to get along and live together.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 11:13 AM

I think you're looking for this passage in Matthew, folks:

"If your brother does something wrong, go and have it out with him alone, between your two selves. If he listens to you, you have won back your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you: the evidence of two or three witnesses is required to sustain any charge. But if he refuses to listen to these, report it to the community; and if he refuses to listen to the community, treat him like a pagan or a tax collector.

I tell you solemnly, whatsoever you bind on earth will be considered bound in heaven; whatever you loose on earth shall be considered loosed in heaven."

(Matthew 18:15-18, Jerusalem Bible, Reader's Edition)

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: *daylia*
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 11:15 AM

PS   So how did were 'pagans' and tax collectors treated back then, I wonder? Like lepers, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: On Being Stupid and Making Things Right
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 03:26 PM

You know, I used to be able to say that Mudcat "regulars" rarely posted anonymously. It seems that lately there's a trend toward anonymous and pseudonymous posting by Mudcatters, and I don't think it's healthy. If you post anonymously, even if your post is innocuous, I think it violates the trust that other people place in you.
Just an observation.
-Joe Offer-