Etiquette question

Subject: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 11:52 AM

This may seem like a dumb question. I went to my first folk session last night. Everybody was playing along. I tried to join in on a few songs but was having a lot of trouble, and getting a few glares from some of the other musicians. There was finally a song that I felt like I was able to play, so I played along, quite happy with my progress. About halfway through the song, a man left the circle. After the song was over, he came back, snatched my guitar from me, and proceeded to cut each of the strings with a pair of pliers. Then he threw my guitar on the floor outside of the circle and sat back down. Nobody said anything, so I just left my guitar on the floor, and went home. Needless to say, I am quite hurt and humiliated by the whole event. If this is how things are normally done, I don't know why everyone enjoys playing together so much. Maybe in a couple of months I'll buy a new guitar, then never play it outside my home again. Is this standard behavior for these gatherings?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:01 PM

I have never heard of more outrageous behavior! This is absolutely not the way jam sessions work!

This hateful man probably rules the rest of the group, who wouldn;t speak against his hateful actions. Of course you should get a guitar and play, and of course you should find a session where you are welcome, and where you can play and sing with people who respect themselves and each other. Shake the dust of this event from your sandles, and move on. Life is too short, and music too important to let this abusive event hold you back from the joys that music, and good sessions, have to offer you!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:07 PM

What an a**hole!! I don't like violence, but sometimes there is a place for it. I hope you are going to make him pay for the strings, and GO GET YOUR GUITAR!!! Give him a kick in the shins for me. Blast!

And don't give up playing. Just join a nicer group. Geez!

Love, annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: moonchild
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:11 PM

Christie ... that is the worst story I've every heard, bar none! I feel so badly that it happened at a folk music session and can assure you that this behavior is not the norm. Certainly, you should retrieve your guitar, apply new strings, and go forward. If you're not used to playing with a group or just learning guitar, tell the session people just that. We all needed to garner experience at one time and this is how you get it. Don't hold it against the rest of us because I cannot imagine any of my mudcat peers doing something so outrageous. Maybe it was what is called an "elite" session which seems to cater to those who only think of themselves as the best musicians around and many of us, included seasoned musicians, would not be in that type of session. As I said, go forward ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Marion
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:15 PM

Somebody please tell me that this is a joke.

Marion

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:19 PM

Right on Marion. It's a joke.

Sorry everyone. Sometimes the demented freak in me comes to the surface.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:22 PM

annap's comments express my original thoughts ... I would certainly have put the bastard's lights out if I was there!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: radriano
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:35 PM

Dear Christie:

I have never heard of such a thing happenning! This is in no way typical behavior, especially in the folk music crowd which is usually pretty tolerant and forgiving. It is amazing to me that any crowd would condone this kind of thing.

If you want to join this crowd again you might want to get in touch with whoever leads or sets up the event. Talk to them and find out what the local rules are. There are usually etiquette guidelines for any gathering. Having said that I still can't condone his behavior. He destroyed your property!

radriano

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:42 PM

Christie, I'm sorry. Did you say this whole thing was a joke? Were you being sarcastic? Welll...the laughs on us, isn't it.

annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:45 PM

Yep. It's a joke. Didn't mean to embarrass anyone. Just felt like telling a good lie.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:49 PM

Well, Christie, it was a good lie. Here lies one dead thread.

annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Tony Burns
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:01 PM

Great trolling Christie!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:01 PM

You killed my thread!

You bastards!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Tony Burns
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:02 PM

... and a South Park fan too.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: DougR
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:03 PM

Christi:

I think it was a rather poor joke in very bad taste. You got a lot of nice people's heart's racing. If that was your intent, then you accomplished what you set out to do. You must feed on a very weird sense of humor.

DougR

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:18 PM

I think it could be refered to more appropriately as flaming, phoaks. And, you are right, DougR!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:34 PM

I'm glad I stayed quite on this one! It almost produced some very unpleasant suggestions (like using the pliers for a different purpose) from me.

Jon

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:45 PM

chuckle ... warped humor ... I did rise to the occasion!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bbelle
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 02:30 PM

And I certainly feel like a fool. It will probably be a cold day before I rise up to any other threads such as this one. Christie, whoever you are, I hope never to meet you and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Easy Rider
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:22 PM

That was TERRIBLE!

You shouldn't play such tricks on your friends. I was really getting upset, till I found out it was a joke.

NOT NICE! BAD GIRL!

EZR

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:23 PM

Now, does anybody know who Christie really is?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: emily rain
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:28 PM

oh, come on, you guys.

i had an art teacher once who faked a heart attack in the middle of a lecture... just for the hell of it. he ended by lying motionless on the floor, and when the TA rushed over to help him he leaped to his feet and went on with his lecture. i was livid, having been scared spitless for him, and ever after have envisioned all the things i should have done: told him off, stormed out, dropped the class, complained to the principal, etc. instead i did nothing, and in time he received a more appropriate reprimand: two years later, a well loved history teacher died of an authentic heart attack one morning just before class began. school was cancelled and everyone went home crying... imagine the shame of that insensitive fool as it suddenly dawned on him that sudden death was no laughing matter.

if you're truly offended by this thread, i'd advise you to brush it off, move on, and trust in karma.

but personally, i thought christie's little joke was pretty funny. for me the difference between each instance of wolf-crying is this: people who use folk music as an outlet for their egomania _are_ a laughing matter. i mean, honestly! what a ridiculous concept! true, they cause real hurt to nice people just like any other bully, but the best way to deflate a bully has always been to laugh in his face. the sooner we learn to take them (and ourselves!) a little less seriously, the sooner we can get back to singing some good songs.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Chet W.
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:40 PM

Be careful what you joke about, sayeth the sage, lest it come true.

Chet

Subject: RE: Impractical Jokes
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:12 PM

I am flashing back on when I started working construction as a "gopher" (that's go-for to the uninitiated - as in someone who fetches). I was just returning to where a crew was digging footings when one of them yelled at me, "Quick, run to the supply trailer and get a sledge hammer! We've got a man with his hand caught!"

Soon I was running back up the muddy hillside as fast as I could with a ten pound hammer in my hand. I was almost halfway up the hill when the idea came to me that a ten pound sledge hammer would probably be of little use in getting anyone out of a ditch. Then I saw the smirks on the faces of a couple of the guys. I knew I'd been had.

Not quite as silly as being asked to fetch a bucket of steam or a styrofoam cup full of gasoline.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:38 PM

Thinking of hammers, an adjustable rubber mallet seemed to be something that was apprentices used to be asked to get. The favourite that I have heard of people falling for was to go and ask the storeman for a long stand - I believe some have stood waiting for hours!

Jon

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Melodeon
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:44 PM

Hey Allan, you've brought back memories there. Hundreds of years ago when I was an apprentice engineer(that's english for an engineering worker - not a locomotive driver) we were sent to the stores by the skilled men for long weights, left handed mandrils, blind drills and all sorts of other non existent bits of engineering tools. I suppose it's all part of the lore of learning a trade, we played the same jokes on our apprentices and I'm sure the will do the same - even in this high tech, no time for anything world that we now live in. Thanks for the memory.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: MMario
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:52 PM

A scout camp I used to attend had a staff that for years "hazed" new and younger campers by sending them off for various items...."smoke benders" etc. My troop, not finding this particularly humerous, assembled a chest we would bring with us each year, which included most of the items -- or at least items we could claim were the desired ones. We had left and right handed screwdrivers, ditto for wrenches, we had smoke benders, sky hooks, weasel oil, barber pole paint, right and left handed saws etc. Really bugged the staff when they would send a tenderfoot back to our site and we would probide them with the requested item. Ironicaly, this started when our scoutmaster, who had not grown up in the area, tried to organize a classic "snipe hunt" and had 4 different teams come back with snipe!!! (He didn't know that there is actually a shore/marsh bird known as a snipe, or that they were found in our area)

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 06:02 PM

this brings up a very very bad memory for me.

My brother in law, of whom I confess I was not very fond, used to be an incorrigible practical joker. did the fake heart attack thing, and this with fatal sudden aneurysms running in his family.

He was home alone with my then-13 year old neice when he kicked it for real. She thought it was the usual joke and left him lying. When she looked outside 2 hours later and he was still lying, she went over the edge.

Don't ever, ever ever, do this kind of trick on people you love.

MOST sincerely, MA

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: radriano
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 06:54 PM

To Christie from Wisconsin:

Enjoy having fun at other people's expense?

I'll have to remember to ignore any threads from you in the future.

WITHOUT regards,
radriano

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bbc
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 08:03 PM

Christie,

If you were a member, I would have sent this as a personal message. As it is, I hope this thread dies soon, so people will not think of you this way, should you choose to post again. I feel that this thread was attention-seeking & in poor taste. The folks who make up this forum are loving & responsive & many, I'm sure, snarled or wept when they read this thread. Put bluntly, it's just not nice to jerk people around. You will have to earn credibility after this stunt. If you're interested in making meaningful, sincere comments, please do stay. We'd like your input.

bbc (born in Wisconsin & insulted)

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 08:06 PM

May I point out the waywardness of a cookie.....Especially since these are "Christie's" first posts.........just a flamer I guess.............good html knowledge though....and why does "demented freak" sound so familiar????......Speaks well too, 'course a lot of people do at times.......generally on the music threads though..........."bastards"....hmmmm..................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: O'Boyle
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:04 AM

Let's find her and cut the strings out of her guitar with a pair of pliers.

Rick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:35 AM

Actually, Rick, I think that's what many of the people above just did: Christie just played a riff and a bunch of you were so offended by the outsider's clumsy picking that you just jumped her, took her guitar, cut the strings, and sent her home to nurse her broken spirits. One of you in particular, I feel, seems to have taken on a guardian of the gate role and is playing it with a heavy hand...for the best of reasons, I'm sure, but anyone telling people to piss off, you ain't our kind, makes me awfully uncomfortable.

--seed

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:17 AM

I don't particularly want to spend my time wondering whether a thread is genuine or a wind-up. So - I'll try to continue to take things in good faith, and never mind if I get taken for a fool. This whole thing is either a malicious wind-up or a genuine bit of off-beat humour. Life's too short to figure it out or to worry about it. I think that's part of the trouble with text-based conversation - its hard to judge the intent. I reckon if you give the benefit of the doubt then you can be wrong without actually wronging anyone. If the original intention was malicious, well then you have taken the wind out of their sails. That's my considered opinion - after initially getting really miffed & feeling that I would be suspicious of every posting from now onward. Kris

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 07:31 AM

Does this mean I've got to leave my pliers at home in future?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:12 AM

Steve - of course not - tolerance in all things. I defend your right to carry pliers. To the death if necessary.

:)

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:40 AM

I'm sorry if I overreacted, but I don't feel that I did. I have a strong mother instinct, and when one of us gets hurt, I become very defensive of that one. My fight or flight reflex was way up on this one and I don't need the stress, nor do I want to waste that much karma and energy on somebodys kicks.

Was that too rough? I'm sorry. NOT. Damn! There I go, wasting karma and energy again.

Love, Damn it!! annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:40 AM

Damn! Damn! and Damn again!! Duckboots told me about this after I got home from a rehearsal, and instead of racing to the computer, I went to bed like a fool. Oh how I wish I'd gotten here earlier (like second in line). I would have wanted Christie to tell me HOW he cut her strings with a pair of pliers. Short of defusing bombs, that would have been one of the most dangerous things a human being could do. Ya got 3000 lbs. of pressure on those strings, and even clipping one (assuming you could get the cutting part of the pliers onto one string at a time) could result in very serious injury to the cutter. The recoil of each string would be like a bullet. To actually perform this heinous act would have meant loosening each string first, and since there was no mention of a "string winder" the whole process would have taken at least 4 or 5 minutes, thus dramatically reducing the shock value.
Had you (guess you've gone away, or back to another identity) said "he'd bashed your guitar over your head", I might have bought it and suggested you start working on your "F" chords...after a couple of Tylenols.
Duckboots thinks your Catspaw. (much beloved in this house) If you're an actual other person with a wicked evil twin, I'd welcome you with open arms. I've gotten suckered at times, but holy cow, I'd be worried if I couldn't laugh at myself after stepping into a pile of doo doo. Folks who fake heart attacks must live in some strange parallel universe.

Rick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:11 AM

Rick, I hadn't thought of the danger aspect. I carry a set of wire cutters in my banjo case and frequently cut the strings to speed up the proces of changing them. I do reduce the string tension to a safe level first though - as you said, cutting a properly tensioned sting most certainly could cause serious injury.

Jon

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:12 AM

annap, you didn't overreact and have nothing to apologise for! Your heart is in the right place. There comes a time when it isn't wise to turn the other cheek.

Rick, in this case, I don't think this is a wicked evil twin, I think it is the original parading under a pseudonym.

kat

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:22 AM

When I was in high school, my art teacher plotted a "happening" - what is now probably called "performance art." He had scripted out his own shooting by a disgruntled student, played by my best friend. I knew about it in advance. If I'd had a little more warning, I might have been able to get another blank bullet, and reversed the un-funny joke a bit.

Wait until teacher begins to get up and explain the "joke"... "I knew about this stunt - it was a blank cartrige. Now let's see what happens when I put a real bullet in..."

Seriously, nobody thought this was funny - it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to provoke an emotional response and get people thinking. It got me thinking how much I hated people being manipulative. (At that time, there had been no incidents of school shooting that I'd heard of, and kids didn't bring weapons to school. The teacher would probably have been fired in a New York minute these days.)

And to you folks who are trying to laugh at yourselves for being had, don't. You responded appropriately, and there was no reason to suspect anyone would pull such a dumb-ass stunt.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:39 AM

... and here I was wishing I could have been there at Christie's most embarassing moment to cause grevious bodily harm to that ignorant (though it turns out imaginary) bastard! And it was sooo unnecessary! As Rick Fielding points out, the fellow would undoubtably caused himself harm by releasing those powerful strings so suddenly. Whatever was I thinking!!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:39 AM

... and here I was wishing I could have been there at Christie's most embarassing moment to cause grevious bodily harm to that ignorant (though it turns out imaginary) bastard! And it was sooo unnecessary! As Rick Fielding points out, the fellow would undoubtably caused himself harm by releasing those powerful strings so suddenly. Whatever was I thinking!!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Ohio
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:05 PM

This may seem like a dumb question. I bought my first guitar yesterday, from a small used shop downtown. I'd never really played before, but the guy at the store tuned it up for me. I asked him why there was only five strings and he acted as though I was the biggest idiot he'd ever met. I managed to get this guitar for quite a good price, but I've been having problems trying to play it. I'm not really convinced that he tuned it properly. Then a friend told me that guitars are only supposed to have four strings, so I don't even know what kind of an instrument I purchased. Needless to say, I am quite hurt and humiliated by the whole event. Any advice?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Mudjack
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:07 PM

I think Christie from Wisconsin was really Bob Dylan Zimmerman ceeping into the Cafe.......,
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Rita from Wisconsin
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:15 PM

Perhaps Christie, my fellow Wisconsiner (Wisconsinite? Winsconsonian?), had been reading the multiple etiquette threads and decided lighten things up a bit, on the topic. It would appear that she was a little too convincing in her attempt at humor, then was unable to back out gracefully enough.

Christie from Ohio, on the other hand, has a serious problem and needs our help.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:23 PM

well Rita - I think Christie has been convincing but her humor has been appreciated, at this point!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Marion
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:28 PM

Now I have a serious problem and need your help too!

If cutting a tense guitar string is that dangerous - don't the strings sometimes break on their own in the middle of a hard-strumming song? Do people get hurt that way?

And is it the same for fiddle strings? If they snapped during play and swung wild, you could lose an eye, couldn't you?

Is there a word for phobia of your instruments?

This is a serious question - I don't want to feel like I'm strumming/bowing a time bomb.

Marion

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:33 PM

strings do break during performance sometimes, and players do sometimes get hurt ...

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:43 PM

It ain't me folks......like I said before, I think its a stone cold joke.........and now we add the Ohio bit...Very entertaining.........but it ain't me babe (or Boots)

Spaw--Still having doubts about Hiroshi Ogura