BS: The way it should be......

Subject: BS: The way it should be......
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 24 May 05 - 05:48 PM

While reading the following article, I came to realize that most liberals are the way they are because of the fact that they are following what they have seen their parents do or because of peer pressure or even just the fact that they, while in the liberal frame of mind, are incapable of independent and responsible thoughts. It may take something, such as one of their own, to step forward and show them that it's ok to say that you're wrong and to step to the right is actually a good thing.

So...without hesitation....read away!


A real eye opener


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 24 May 05 - 06:16 PM

Liberal and Conservative are not the only two choices. Thank goodness.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: PoppaGator
Date: 24 May 05 - 06:46 PM

Amen, CarolC.

I agree with a whole lot of what's being said in that article, believe it or not, even though I haven't often found myself in agreement with the Neocon doctrine I've seen Hubby post.

There are many characteristics of the doctrinaire academic left that have always turned me off. All in all, however, my views fall into the left-of-center category. That said, I observe even more hardheaded dogmatism and unthinking meanspirited vitriol coming from the right than from the bigmouthed but ultimately ineffectual voices of the blowhard ivory-tower "politically correct" left.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 24 May 05 - 06:53 PM

Although I do find it ironically amusing that in the opening post to this thread, people are being encouraged to exercise independent thought by following the example of someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Bill D
Date: 24 May 05 - 06:56 PM

"... I came to realize that most liberals are the way they are because of the fact that they are following what they have seen their parents do or because of peer pressure or even just the fact that they, while in the liberal frame of mind, are incapable of independent and responsible thoughts..."

umm-hmm....and most conservatives get the way THEY are by careful, considered, reasonable, analytical processes? Right...and I'm sure Rush Limbaugh would agree.

(I'm still reading the article, to better respond to the thrust of the post..)

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 May 05 - 07:49 PM

The 'liberals' that Keith Thompson is slagging are not the liberals I know.

I agree with this early belief of his: "All my commitments centered on belief in equal opportunity, due process, respect for the dignity of the individual and solidarity with people in trouble." (Incidentally, I wonder how many 'conservatives' would agree with that statement? An approach that exemplifies what I consider the essence of civilization.)

I think a great many of his other opinions are sweeping, shallow and superficial. I don't know who he hangs out with.

When he talks about how 'liberals' feel about the carnage in Afghanistan and links the war to 9/11, he ignores the fact that Osama is/was a Saudi, and that the Afghanistan populace is suffering the consequences of his presence in the country. As sexist, fundamentalist and cruel as they were/are, even the Taliban did not necessarily have anything to do with 9/11.

As for SH thinking that liberals have grown up that way, I would guess the reverse is far more likely to be true. My own family is/was conservative- and so was I. The first president I voted for was Nixon. (the time that he didn't make it. So there.) Even Kendall was Republican at one time; so were many others. As we got older we started seeing the inconsistencies, and probably gradually, in most cases, started realizing that our beliefs were bearing the wrong label.

Susu's Hubby, what are/were the politics of your birth family?

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: frogprince
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:12 PM

Who do you know, at any point in the political spectrum, who didn't start out following what they saw their parents do, wherever they have or haven't gone from there since?
My reaction to the linked article is so mixed it makes my head spin. Part of me says Thompson has picked the easiest straw figures to tear apart. But, again, there does seem to be mass support for any whacked thing some of them may say.
Thompson is letting the most regretable aberations on the current American political/sociological scene define the word liberal for him,
and then supposedly fleeing from liberalism itself in response. If in fact he lands in "progressivism", to me that amounts to liberalism in a more genuine sense than what has been on the political table recently under that name.
As for Susu's Hubby, he's pretty much bouncing around on the usual end of his chain. But the article is at least provocative

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 24 May 05 - 08:59 PM

well Ive changed my mind with respect to the invasion of Iraq.
While not wholeheartedly in favor, I was not against it mainly for humanitarian reasons, however whether its worth it in the long run it depends on the outcome. And the outcome doesnt look that great,
as it was one screwup after another. (disbanding the Iraqi Army with their weapons (one of the dumbest military decisions of the last century), Abu Ghraib.

of course we all know that Bush and Co. didnt go in because of the 'long suffering people of Iraq' the argument was Weapons of Mass destruction, and we of course know (after David Kays report) that the authorities have long since given up looking for these fictional weapons.

what about the 'long suffering people' of Uzbekistan, whose 'president for life' Islam Karimov received 500$ million US in aid in exchange for airbases on the 'War on Terror', how did George Bush react to the 500 people that were killed in a demonstration two weeks ago when the were fired upon by Uzbek troops? did it even make the news in the US?

the outcome also depends on how long the US intends to stay in Iraq,
we know they are building 14 superbases, but when only 2% of the people in Iraq view the US as liberators, one wonders how viable those bases will be.

what it really depends on is just how much increased costs and US dead the American population is willing to accept - the socalled MOGADISHU line.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Amos
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:07 PM

Hub me boy, your reasoning powers are deserting you faster than National Guardsmen home on furlough.

You invent a class of paper tigers with few or no genuine attributes that can be actually found in the people you accuse of occupying the class and then practice armchair psychology on the mock-up. Talk about inheriting the wind, lad, you need to find the real world. Your demon liberals aren't in it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 24 May 05 - 09:20 PM

We read this article in the Chronicle and dismissed it out of hand because of the statement near the beginning that reads:

"Leading voices in America's "peace" movement are actually cheering against self-determination for a long-suffering Third World country because they hate George W. Bush more than they love freedom."

We have not heard anyone express this sentiment, here on Mudcat or elsewhere. Everyone we know cheered the election in Iraq. The complaints were not against the election, they were against Bush's claims that the election constituted success in and of itself. As we have seen, it was only one small step in a process which, on the whole, may or may not succeed.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Matt_R
Date: 25 May 05 - 04:14 AM

According to The World's Shortest Political Test, I'm a socialist...make that a revolutionary socialist. DAMN THE MAN!

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 05 - 08:22 AM

"America must now focus on creating healthy, self-actualizing individuals committed to taking responsibility for their lives, developing their talents, honing their skills and intellects, fostering emotional and moral intelligence, all in all contributing to the advancement of the human condition."


The quote above was from the story written by Thompson. According to quite a few of you that post regularly to this forum, the above statement, evidently, is the fly in your ointment. I've seen many of you post your opposition to people who agree that personal responsibility is the way to live your lives. In fact, from the posts that I've read, the larger the welfare rolls grow, or even the larger the government grows, the happier you are. That is really shameful.


Ebbie,

My parents were strong and proud democrats. My dad actually voted for Nixon as well as you. But before and after, he always voted for the democrat in or running for office.

But one big difference. My father was like Mr. Thompson. He believed in personal responsibility and taught each one of his sons (4 in all) the same values. Now my mother, since voting for Clinton in his first term, has changed her tune and now votes conservative because that's the way that she believes. Her beliefs have not changed. The democrat party is the one that has changed. The far left has taken control and has the party on a downward spiral that shows no sign of stopping. The republican party is now spouting the beliefs of JFK and the early democrats by stating that over taxation is not the way to healthier government. They wanted to stop the spread of communism and fascism. They wanted to stop the spread of socialism. The democratic party of today, by their policies and ideas, have, for the most part, stated that those types of systems are the way that we need to go.

My mother, who is currently working in addition to receiving partial social security, would like to see the SS system reformed for the good of her sons and her grand children. She knows that it's not the administration's goal to stop social security but to make it better for all involved. The goal for social security should be to have people take responsibility for thier own lives in their retirement years and not have to depend on their children or your children's taxes in order to make it. Until now, nobody has had the guts to stand up and put the topic into the forefront. Bush, who I DON'T always agree with, has brought it to the table. Now all we hear is how there is nothing wrong with the system and that his numbers are wrong. That's funny because, evidently, there was nothing wrong with the numbers whenever Clinton tried to champion the same cause.

I'm glad to see that Mr. Thompson has now decided to speak out against the wrongs and inconsistencies found in today's version of the democrat party. Maybe now, we can get to the real issues and start making a difference.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 11:28 AM

The irony being, of course, that the federal government is growing more and faster under Mr. Bush than it did under Clinton. Bush is more pro-big government than any other president in my lifetime (I'm 49 years old). That's one of the things that scares me about him.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 05 - 11:55 AM

Hubby:

Personal responsibility, in my book, includes wearing the hat of a citizen and seeking the greatest good for the commonweal at all levels. If your version ends at the narrow, hard boundary of your own self-centered flesh, then you haven't a clue.

Your accusations about welfare-happiness are ridiculous, unfounded, and not supported by anything beyond your own blathering.

Take your fuzzy and bigoted thinking elsewhere. You not only do not have a monoploly on responsibility, you are to a large degree a mockery of the real thing with your paper tiger hatred and your dramatized misconceptions about what other people believe. Get thee to a rednecked nunnery, sirrah, you are a jackanapes.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:22 PM

Great tap dance, Amos. Obviously the article disturbed you as you saw you and your ilk described for what they are.

Hubby, this was a fabulous article and I am glad you posted it. some of the perverted radicals on this site are realizing that they have lost their once almost exclusive stronghold of thought here.

It's such a pleasure to see Mudcat not such a radically liberal cess pool that Amos and some of his stooges want it to be.

Thanks and I hope you will find more as I have tried and successfully done.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:36 PM

What Amos said. I was preparing to say that YOUR statesments are what is shameful- they are distorted, deceitful, knowingly false, disengenuous and slopping over with declarations that have no basis in fact.

Then I decided not to say a word. Other than: Susu's Hubby, you are full of it.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 12:54 PM

Ebbie, typical response.

There are so many others who can't stand now to be associated with the perverted liberal left thinking and political correctness of today that was described in the article.

No, Ebbie. You can't stand to see your ideology logically shot full of holes.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Alba
Date: 25 May 05 - 01:34 PM

I thought the article was pretty poorly written and basically more of the same hysteria that just feeds the hungry right.
Smells a bit like any press is good press (and boy could the right be doing with some good press lately huh?) but not all articles are good articles and just because it drums up hysteria and woopees from those that are willing to grab at anything in order to make them feel better about their Political views doesn't make it accurate....
Na...I won't be running towards a drowning ship any time in the future and the fear expressed by a terrified Keith Thompson ..lol.. isn't likely to make me do it either.
Oh and by the way..I think for myself, just as my Parent's did....we did not all share the same thoughts politically...none of us actually did, not even my Father and Mother.
Made for some great discussions in our House..***bg***
If they were still with me I'd have them both come in and tell you what they thought....now that would have been good reading.
I hope that Mr. Thompson finds solace in his new political home but to me it would appear that he has jumped out of an imaginary fire and right (sorry unavoidable really) into a real one...I look forward to reading about his next 180 in the near future.
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 02:17 PM

Another irony is that GW Bush is probably the most fiscally non-conservative (fiscally irresponsible) Republican president in the history of the Republican Party. His *"borrow and spend" policies have created the largest national debt in US history, as well as the largest deficit in US history. But instead of embodying the "conservative" principle of personal responsibility, and taking care of the debt and the deficit himself, he is passing it along to future presidents and future taxpayers.

And he is also the biggest "welfare president" in US history. Only with GW Bush, the welfare money paid for by US taxpayers doesn't go to needy people who need a leg up... it goes to huge corporations that are already making enormous profits. And of course, far more money is given to corporations as corporate welfare than has ever been given to social welfare programs. Social welfare programs are a tiny, tiny drop in the bucket compared to corporate welfare. But the US taxpayers are still the ones who are footing the bill.

* "borrow and spend" - the same thing as "tax and spend" except that the taxpayers will be paying for it after GW leaves office.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 02:59 PM

...and the ironies just keep piling up, one on top of the other...

Hubster, do you still work for a Chuch? If so, then you are a socialist, because churches are socialist enterprizes. And if you make your living working for one, you are making a living from socialism in practice.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:14 PM

I would think that in this fine country that separates church and state, if Hubby is working for a church, than he is probably doing a lot of good for people regardless of their political differences instead of just shooting their fat mouth off from some trailer park somewhere. socialist? I think Hubby just has some belief in God. The socialists in China and the old USSR never worked in churches.

Your barking at your own behind.

CarolC, doesn't your blouse get dirty crawling on your belly all of the time?

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:20 PM

Whether or not churches are good is irrelevant to the fact that they are socialist in nature and in structure. But you're just pissed off because you're jealous of the fact that I am a true capitalist, and you are nothing but a bureaucrat who works for capitalists.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:35 PM

Yeah right. Your about as much a capitalist as Chairman Mao.

Anyone who knocks religion as much as you do and the people who have any has that chairman Mao picture up in their trailer.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:40 PM

I don't have any problem with religion (as long as people don't try to force theirs on me). My husband is a Christian, as are several of my family members. My husband is a true capitalist, too, unlike you. You're a bureaucrat, which really amounts to just about the same thing as a Socialist.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:43 PM

Complete BS, CaroldC.

cross your legs. Your breath is killing me.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:43 PM

Same old tap dance from the Martoonster.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:45 PM

"Hubster, do you still work for a Chuch? If so, then you are a socialist, because churches are socialist enterprizes"


If you use that line of logic then I guess that if you've ever worn your husband's shirt or jacket then that makes you a man.


You're reaching CarolC. As usual.


And by the way....even though I still do work for our church from time to time, I do not get financially compensated for the work that I do.

But with you being a "true capitalist", I guess you don't understand the concept of volunteering. That's very sad. But not surprising considering your vile hatred of all things American.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:46 PM

Hey Hubby! Looks like Martoon is trying to get this thread of yours deleted just like he did that other thread of yours. He must really disagree with your political philosophy to keep wanting to shut down your threads.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:50 PM

Hubster, that is a libel. I do not hate all things American. You just made that up so you could feel better about the fact that you keep lying about me. Not a very Christian thing to do... bearing false witness and all that.

If you volunteer for your church rather than making your livelihood in that way, then you are not a Socialist for that reason. But since I don't know what you do for a living, I have no idea whether or not what you actually do for a living is capitalist or socialist in nature.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:51 PM

I do agree with it. but I won't try to get it shut down. didn't on the other one, either.

too bad truthful passion gets that result here sometimes, though.

Hubby's article is one of the best I've seen on the growing number of disillusioned liberals, like I was once upon a time.

all folksingers are not radical liberal perverts you know. some of us actually like this country.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 25 May 05 - 05:57 PM

Which one of my threads was shut down?


I always thought that they just fell below the date line because nobody could successfully defend their positions on how right I actually am.



Hubby ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:08 PM

Hubby:

There is no doubt about how "right" you are.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:08 PM

Hubby:

There is no doubt about how "right" you actually are.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:11 PM

Your Socialism vs. Capitalism thread. It has been completely deleted, as of the last time I looked for it. If you click on your name in blue letters in your last post, you will go to a page with your posting history. If the thread is still deleted, you will not be able to find any of the posts you made on that thread in your posting history.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 25 May 05 - 06:15 PM

ok...ok....my bad


slip of the fingers....


as a college professor once told me...

"Listen to what I mean...not what I say."



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: The Shambles
Date: 25 May 05 - 07:26 PM

Those on the right are defined as those who have a selfish gut reaction and then only look for others on the right - to confirm and agree that this was right.

Those on the left are defined as those who have a selfish gut reaction and then only look for others on the left - to confirm that this was wrong.

*Smiles*

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 05 - 07:44 PM

SH and Martin really deserve each other. Your mind smells worse than any of the fecal matter or other bodily functions you throw around, MG. It twinkles in the moonlight like a rotten mackerel full of reactionary automaticities and no analysis or insight worth speaking of. You and SH have the same sort of garbage mouths and lame brains. Maybe you were produced in the same Petri dish, I guess.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 25 May 05 - 07:59 PM

Amos,

It is really beneath you to resort to such name calling and denial of the truth.

Now that you have completely embarrassed yourself and lost any credibility with anybody who even thought of you as being somewhat intelligent, slowly back away from the dictionary and thesaurus and tell us what you really think about the article. I know that you're a big fan of posting articles that support the MANY opinions that you have and then waste valuable time trying to support your weak positions. But the only thing that I've seen here is your denial to face many of the truths found above in the above article.

So are you going to post your response? Or are you going to join with CarolC and bad mouth the messenger because you have no argument left?


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 May 05 - 08:19 PM

SH, are you serious? Are you really this lame? Do your truly believe the garbage you are serving? Who are you, really??

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: CarolC
Date: 25 May 05 - 09:54 PM

Badmouth the messenger? I believe it was you who badmouthed me, Hubster, and I can only imagine that you did it because you had no argument left.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Amos
Date: 26 May 05 - 12:52 AM

Well to start with, lame-brain, the left did not demur at the interim triumph of the Iraq election.

The force wielded by democracies in self-defense has nothing to do with Iraq, as self-defence was not part of our actual rationale for being there.

The author did not watch the left's response to the Iraqi elections, he is simply projecting from the responses he saw from a few people. He asserts this representation is a valid extrapolation of a whole class he calls the left, but god only knows what he thinks that is. It is a meaningless and sardonic generality. The kind you specialize in.

"These days the postmodern left demands that government and private institutions guarantee equality of outcomes" is a meaningless sentence, since their is no center to the vaporous cloud he calls the post-modern left. The legacy of liberalism that I think of as meaningful goes back to SOcrates, and was dramatically boosted by Jefferson and Adams, but it has nothing to do with this stupid imaginary whipping boy you like to throw your half-baked generalizations at. To this nameless and formless imagining, your author then proceeds to attribute all kinds of ideas which he insists "they" hold, without specifics, ideas which are prima facie ridiculous as he names them; this is the worst sort of rhetorical chestbeating.

Whatever this guy chooses to do is his own business, but generalizing hius little upset and making arching generalities out of it is just juvenile in style and watery in reason, much like your own.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 26 May 05 - 07:39 AM

Man....MG was right. This article DID get your panties in a twist, didn't it?

Like I always tell my son.....

I'd rather tell you the truth and hurt your feelings rather than lie to you just to make you feel better.

From your above post, I sense that you don't feel better.

I apologize if I hurt your feelings. Truth is important in my book.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 May 05 - 11:48 AM

Of course I was right, Hubby. amos always shows his true snake like colors when his pseudo-intellectualism isn't all it's cracked up to be, which is usually when someone easily shows him that he is not the supreme being of Mudcat. He just starts swearing and accusing and showing he is a poor example of a human being with common sense.

This is the far-left radical liberal way. Amos just proved a definitive moment of the knee-jerk species.

Those with hurt feelings from the truth show how weak their character is.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: GUEST,petr,
Date: 26 May 05 - 03:58 PM

I must say I enjoy reading Amos' rejoinders, makes MG's and Hubbys responses more like the obvious blithering idiots they are and the president they emulate.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Amos
Date: 26 May 05 - 04:40 PM

You guys are coming on as bigger bloviators with each post you make. The truth has never hurt my feelings. It is the wild generalizations of sardonic hate -- which are untruthful, adversarial and essentially without any referent by which they could be called truth -- that annoys me.

Hub-old-fart, as I recall you upbraided me for not responding tot he article. Then when I told you exactly why the article was fallacious you bragged that the article had upset me. If you think that is an example of reason and rational discourse, I would hazard a guess that you were raised in a snakepit, or perhaps a roach nest.

I think your head must be banging into your tonsils from below.

With Martin's right behind.

A

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 26 May 05 - 05:02 PM

Amos, for a pseudo-intellectual, you are quite the crude one which shows how ridiculously phony you are.

I don't know Hubby too well, but I would figure he is laughing at your knotted up rhetorical and struggling answers as much as I am.

You are such a schmuck.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Alba
Date: 26 May 05 - 05:13 PM

I went in search of more 'enlightment" from the Author of the Essay..Keith Thompson....hey if that guy was ever on the Left in was only when he was driving on the highway so how he could have jumped ship is beyond me!
Fallacious is far too kind a word to describe such a piece Amos...

When at a loss for Truth it would appear the 'Right' will grab anything, even Lies and hype, in the hope that in doing so they may get back at least some of their credibility.
This article and Keith Thompson unfortunately will not assist in that goal. As my journey into his other masterpieces...***cough*** have shown me.
Banal at best and completely without basis, kind of sums up how I feel about a lot of these "Let's bash the Left" articles showing up at the end of a blue clicky lately on the Mudcat... in a weird way they are strangely laughable....but when looked at from a serious prospective....it is disturbing that some actually swallow and promote this non sense!
Being Right and being right.....now there is an oxymoron these days.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 May 05 - 08:39 PM

"He just starts swearing and accusing and showing he is a poor example of a human being with common sense.
"This is the far-left radical liberal way. Amos just proved a definitive moment of the knee-jerk species." Marvin G

It appears, m'dear, that you have joined the ranks of the "far-left radical liberal". I don't know *anyone* who does more "swearing and accusing and showing he is a poor example of a human being with common sense."

I commiserate with you. It must be a terrible thing.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 May 05 - 11:08 AM

Ebbie, I at least have been consistent.

amos is just a phony. I turned in my left wing card already a while ago. I was on the corner of Michigan & Balbo during the 1968 Democratic convention chanting "the whole world's watching."

I grew up and made it in the world. You still haven't and never will, no matter how old you get.

Subject: RE: BS: The way it should be......
From: Amos
Date: 27 May 05 - 11:39 AM

I grew up and made it in the world.

Nope. You ain't made it yet, pal. MILES to go before you rest.


A