Why do folk music radio programs fail?

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: bruceCMR
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 09:37 AM

I am one of the directors of Celtic Music Radio, a licensed community radio station and charity based in Glasgow. We broadcast 24x7 on 1530kHz to the west of Scotland, and stream on http://www.celticmusicradio.net/

Celtic Music Radio has a mission to be a strong cultural voice for contemporary and traditional music, arts and culture.We play a broad range of traditional and contemporary roots and folk music - 'connecting singers and songwriters around Glasgow and around the world'.

During January, we will be broadcasting 10 hours live every day from Celtic Connections - and we're optimistic that this will be relayed on a number of other stations throughout the UK.

Anyway - enough of the advert!

We've been "on-air" full-time for 3 years, and listener numbers are generally increasing. The biggest asset we have is that our presenters are all enthusiasts - all volunteers, drawn from the local folk community. Some performers, some listeners! We work very closely with the local folk community - every week we will have some local musicians in for a live set, or maybe just a chat, and we try to record and broadcast as many local music events as we can. It's all about being part of a community, broadcasting with it, rather than to it.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 09:56 AM

-Not only are folk programs failing but judging from reports on bbc folk programs that remain folk clubs too are closing down.
-yes interaction via facebook with listeners is a very very good strategy it puts viewers live in the studio
it is well worth the effort to keep the facebook page open and give it a comment or two when recordings are playing.

The important thing about facebook page is not the number of likes or friends but the number you get to comment on a regular basis. A few ways to encourage more to contribute would be a facebook quiz during the show, maybe information there that is not found elsewhere on radio web pages and play lists. Asking facebook friends to post their requests is also good.

Another strategy is to get a friend from the facebook page to take a role in posting information during the program on guests or tracks played. They could be ready with it and send it in for the presenter.
Often one has to wait for the play list for the web pages of those who perform on the show live. Spreading the work this way would allow the presenter to make the facebook page quite lively.

it is also important that people listening have many reasons for doing so. A program running along without variety in a few directions will not be so popular.

it is important to moderate the dimensions as well. One folk presenter in the DC area goes on and on and on with calendar items so much so that you can hardly find the music. while i think some event listing is important this is better accomplished on a web page or play list or facebook.

I also find that some presenters drone on with interviews taking up entire shows. these are best broken into short sound bites and broadcast over several programmes.

I do like background information on the songs but not too long after the song has been played. when a number of songs are played in a row one can not relate the background to the song.

again background information on facebook would keep the facebook experience lively.

Another problem is actually playing requests. One should not have to wait forever and a day to have the request played. yes does often take a while to track down recordings.

another important thing is to make sure that local grass roots talent is featured not just the big star who is promoting a concert tour or recording.

Festival season is also messy with this sort of promotion. i find that the summer programs are dominated by festival line ups and promoters. the same people on several programs. overkill. then you find that the tickets are sold out anyway.....so perhaps some of the big festivals dont need all that much coveraage all the time.

Is the recording on i tunes- I use i tunes a lot so it is helpful to know that a song is there.....one could go on and on it seems i have.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 10:49 AM

"Not only are folk programs failing but judging from reports on bbc folk programs that remain folk clubs too are closing down."

That is sort of like saying transportation is failing because fewer people are using horse and cart these days.

I cannot speak for the UK, but since this thread was started by a person living in the U.S., I can only relate to what is happening over here.   It is true that a popular BBC show was cancelled, and the traditional folk clubs may or may not be in danger in the UK, but there is alwasys something new on the horizon. Sometimes you just need to take off blinders and you will see clearly.

Over the years, there have been radio shows that were cancelled in the U.S., but there are still hundreds available and many of the hosts that were cancelled found new gigs elsewhere.    This is not very different from any other style of specialty program. There is greater access to a wider variety of music than ever before. If you cannot find folk music on the radio or the internet, you are either living under a rock or not trying very hard.

Venues are always struggling, but alternatives have been found. The house concert series has become very popular here in the states - although it is a concept that has not caught on overseas. I understand that what passes for homes and apartments in the UK is much smaller than here in the US, so it may be difficult to draw 30 to 5o people together in a private residence, but you need to be creative.   Here in the U.S., churches and community centers became the venues of choice once the coffehouse scene died out. Build it, and they will come. While pubs might not wish to present this style of music, you can find another place if you are creative.

Festivals are also holding their own. They might not be money making operations due to rising costs, but there is a wide circuit of events across our nation that supports our community.

Don't kid yourself - folk music IS growing, as long as we do not wring our hands and say the sky is falling, we can continue to create positive messages and make the music attract. It will speak for itself, it always has. Young people are doing some amazing things, and I am confident that our future is safe.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 11:37 AM

As listmeister for cresby.com I can tell you that Folk Clubs are disappearing at approximately the same rate that new ones are springing up.

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 12:12 PM

That is good news Mr. Red!

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: josepp
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 12:33 PM

The fault lies with the listeners. There too few and those few think as long as they keep listening everything will be okay. They are wholly ignorant of what is going on around them and attempts to raise their consciousness a few degrees concerning the issue is hopeless and met with pointless resistance.

If you say, "Well, Christ, look at this crap that's being peddled around today as music--what are we going to do about that??"

You get: "You're just giving it more publicity by talking about it!" as though this is some brilliant response. It is really the same as: "Let me bury my head in the sand and stop bugging me about it. People like you are the problem--always stirring up a fuss about nothing!!"

Then they come to places like Mudcat and start whining that great folk music programs that have been on the air for ages are getting tossed out the door. Or they say that because the one dinky program they like has somehow managed to hang on simply because it has little in the way of competition, that means everything is okay. And they can delude themselves this way because--as pointed out---they are wholly ignorant of what is going on around them and believe that ignoring it makes it go away. No, sooner or later, it will make them go away. And I almost welcome it if there was anything worth listening to that could replace it.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 02:50 PM

josepp: "If you say, "Well, Christ, look at this crap that's being peddled around today as music--what are we going to do about that??"

Absolutely correct!....The answer lies in your minds, hearts, and instrument cases!!!!!!

When asked, "Where did you come up with that?"..after someone heard on of my pieces, I simply reply, "I couldn't hear anything but crap on the radio, so I'll write it myself!"

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 03:09 PM

I was interviewing Eric Andersen and we were talking about the emergence of singer-songwriters during the folk revival (although they were not called singer-songwriters at the time.)   Eric's response was that they needed to write new songs that spoke to the issues and emotions that they were facing - the same reasons that spawned what would become "traditional" music in the first place.

For all the hardcore "traddies" out there, you can probably trace the first sparks for you love of trad back to a time in your youth when you discovered something in the music that touched you.   You cannot expect subsequent generations to have the same reasons as you did - nor can you expect the same modes of transmission.

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Dec 10 - 04:30 AM

Atta Baby, Ron!!
It's true...and that being said, you CAN remember the reason it hit you, the way it did....and you can't get it again, by just repeating different versions of the same song..or stay exclusively in the same genre...but YOU CAN, grab stuff from one genre and incorporate something that caught your ear, from something entirely different, and combine it with you already got..and make it work!
AND in that case, I point your attention to SOUND..and PRECISION!
After Barry McGuire did 'Eve of Destruction' out of nowhere, that, by the way, was MASSIVELY politically and socially INCORRECT..so much so, that you nearly had to 'duck' to admit there was SOMETHING about that song, you just sorta liked...IT was all alone, in every thing....THEN, came this beauty, with a compassion, clarity, and CARE, for your fellow human.....in a time when people sang about cars, surf, proms, doo-wop, and generally shallow stuff...while the early 'Beatles' were narrating their/our journey through puberty..and of course, we ALL perked up our ears..then came THIS song, out of NOWHERE sung by someone nobody ever heard of, ....and you couldn't hear it played enough....:

Remember the clarity, precision and spirit of compassion?????

It virtually switched the train tracks, in our ears!

"What was she saying?" "What was that lyric?"..."Wow, what a clear voice!".."Have you heard this song?..what was her name?", God! She's my favorite singer!".........ALL COMMENTS WE ALL heard....and it put her on the map!..So much, even Dylan went for it...and along with the masterful lyrics of Phil Ochs, Who really had a lot to say, in a LOT of his stuff, it became one of the building blocks of a style, or form of music, that we've played for years after!!..though it has evolved, and sometimes not for the better!

I have a hope, and an optimism, that someone out there 'gets' what I'm talking about, and starts thinking, and disciplining, and innovating something so damn likable, with something REAL to say, that there is NO holding it back!! WE can, and could be, and should be hip to that, and pull it off!

A lot of the 'folk' market is nostalgia based....somebody fresh, will blow the lid off it...and it might not be folk!..but it can be..and probably SHOULD be..though not so much 'traditional' but may have traditional roots.

Its open game.
I'd love to share what's been going on here, with it, and how it came to be...and has roots in guitar..but it's on keyboard.
So, in closing, take it seriously on a new level. Harness creating. Get outside your 'finger tendencies' and figure out new stuff. Remember precision!!!...and say something DIALED IN to more than extending a 'political overtone'.

Humanity, is in huge demand of understanding, nurturing, and having their hearts touch with compassion..without an ideology attached to it!! IT WILL GET AIRPLAY, if the demand dictates it. Hell, if the stuff is hot enough, maybe it could change what the radio stations play!!!!

Make sense???

GfS

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 01:33 AM

Hello??

Gfs

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 27 Dec 10 - 03:16 PM

I couldn't find this thread yesterday, so I'm reposting and editing what I wrote to the Radio Success thread yesterday:

"On my desk have I a 6+ page list of US and Canadian stations which play(ed) Folk music by day and time, The list is dated FEB. 22, 2006.

I just checked six stations that broadcast folk programs on Sunday morning, then; five still do: KLCC, WOUB, WUWF, WORT, & KRFC. About 10 min. ago KFRC back-announced a tune by Seamus Kennedy (our own compatriot?).

Based on this small sampling, I'm supposing that folk music is alive and picking (with apologies to MKAlden) on the radio."

Note: since yesterday I found three or four more programs still kicking around all these years. FAIl? Many do not!

Subject: RE: Why do folk music radio programs fail?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Dec 10 - 05:07 AM

John, Nice post! To all other 'compatriots' John just posted a list of stations, that you might have a shot at being heard....make it a good one, should you have the opportunity.
Just hope that whatever is sent in, is a great one....one that might cause people to listen to 'folk music' again!

GfS