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BS: Bush's speech
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Subject: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:36 PM Ugh, the President of the U.S. made a speech tonight. Anyone listen to it? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: catspaw49 Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:38 PM Yes. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Gary T Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:39 PM I caught the last ten minutes or so. I liked what I heard. Is "ugh" your reaction to it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:44 PM I heard it. Got some laughs out of it. Got annoyed. He came off as a arrogant and chauvanistic, of course, but did surprisingly well for a 'special' president. ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: SINSULL Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:46 PM Did any of you notice that he just declared war on terrorists and anyone who harbors them? This will get very ugly. I have a 26 year old son and I am not laughing or ughing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:50 PM Not at all. I have scorned every public speech the man has made; I have belittled him as dysfunctional and illiterate and stupid. But this speech was a complete reversal. It touched every major issud that needed to be touched, and did it well. It was NOT arrogant -- but it was real. It contained enough humility to be palatable, enough threat to be meaningful, and enough compassion to win friends not only from the various camps in the US but also from the many camps in the middle East, except those who know they have been supporting or practicing terrorism. It was the first time I have cheered for a Presidential speech by a Republican since Ike warned us against the military industrial complex. I think it was the best speech I have heard in many, many years. It said some things that might appear frightening, but nowhere as frightening as the images that poured out of New York last week, and it was balanced but adequately determined. I'm sorry -- I never expected to think highly of a Dubya sopeech; I believe he has done some remarkable growing up in the last two weeks, for whatever reason, and I for one am at least willing to recognize that he has. If it was just his speechwriters, then I'll eat my words willingly. But I think he crystallized every major uncertainty in our minds about things since last Tuesday and address them eloquently and well. And that's what I saw on Mulberry Street, anyway. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Mudlark Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:53 PM I missed his speech...out on the porch playing honkytonk songs with my Okie neighbor (he actually IS from Muskogie)...but I've been dismayed and alarmed by the cowboy swagger Bush seems to have picked up along with his 80% approval ratings. There are a lot of cool heads in the US...I can only hope that rationality prevails. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Justa Picker Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:57 PM I watched the speech. I liked it, and I liked his delivery. I obviously want the efforts to succeed. I only have 1 question.
How can this "campaign" have a prayer of succeeding given that there are 60 nations harboring terrorists and terrorist camps. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:57 PM Watch rthe reruns Mudlark. Believe it or not, this is a different son of a bitch than the one you were dismayed by, I think!! I was absolutely taken by surprise. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: allie kiwi Date: 20 Sep 01 - 10:58 PM I thought the speach was well written, and was amazed at how good a speaker Mr Bush is. Inspirational. Countries need good speach givers when they are entering a time of war. Look at Hitler, look at Churchill. A shame about the content though. Allie
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:03 PM Oh well... Ya can't please everybody. But he did do a creditable job. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:04 PM Well Mudlark, if, in this time in our history, you couldn't take forty minutes to listen to what may well be the most important speech in many moons, I guess whatever you think doesn't matter much to me one way or the other. Others will feel differently I know. Hell! Many Mudcatters may encourage you to run for President! I thought it was a great speech. And I have yet to hear, from any of the individuals interviewed on any of the cable or TV networks interviewed ...liberal and conservative, that did not agree. His speech was well written and well delivered. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:06 PM The content, a shame? You mean the facts the content was about, i think? I heard no substantive part of the content of that address to which "shame" could easily be attached. It is a shame we have been attacked, true. It is a shame we did not somehow make allies with Islam long ago and tend the relationships so this never happened. All shames. But the content of the speech, in its context, was of high quality.
A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: ddw Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:07 PM Actually, Mudlark, I agree pretty wholeheartedly with Amos's assessment. I had never thought much of Dubya's thinking or speaking ability, but that was a lot closer to a masterful performance than I would have expected. I was particularly pleased to hear him very carefully reign in the rednecks who would beat the hell out of anybody with a brown skin by repeatedly stressing that the enemy is not Muslims or Arab and Asian friends, but a small group of extremists and their supporters. All in all, I thought it was much more level-headed than might have been expected. I was afraid he would go off half-cocked and rattle the sabre a lot louder to appeal to the ultraconservatives and reactionaries. That, since I have a son in the U.S. Air Force, would have been very scary for me. david |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Deckman Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:07 PM Since the bombing in New York and D.C. last week, I've been trying to make sense of it. I've been reading non-stop, talking with people I value as having sensible ideas. Here's where I am ... WE BOMB THEM ... THEY BOMB US ... WELL DUH! I know that at this early time, my expression will not be populiar ... populiar has never been one of my impotances. CHEERS, Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: allie kiwi Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:19 PM The speach was made by an american, for americans. And it pleased americans. However, what action President Bush takes, and the rest of america, affects us all. Some of his statements showed the insular thinking that frustrates many of us non-americans. That is 'a shame'. it shows that he in particular has learned nothing from the whole tragedy, about how the USA is viewed and why. Allie
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:24 PM Yeah, Allie, like his demands to Afghanistan, spoken as if it were a naughty U.S. state rather than a sovereign nation he was addressing. ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Mudlark Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:25 PM To Amos and ddw....Thanks for the review....I will definitely tune in to reruns....it cheers me to hear that nonfans thot highly of it....I don't WANT to think my president a John Wayne wannabe.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:29 PM Oh, he is, Mudlark. He just tried extra-hard to read the teleprompter tonight. (I know a little boy who's going to get an extra helping of Jell-O® after dinner tonight!) ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: allie kiwi Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:30 PM Do you truely believe that they out there *gestures widely* hate you because of that there democratically elected government in that there chamber, and because of your freedom of speach etc etc as he said? That is so simplistic and so wrong. But great propganda. Allie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:32 PM Why bother. Good night Lepus. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:39 PM What, no kiss? :) ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Jack the Sailor Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:39 PM THE QUALITY OF THE SPEECH!!!?????!!! WHO CARES?? HE JUST DREW A HELL OF A SCARY LINE IN THE SAND!!! Pardon me for getting excited. But I am afraid! I believe that we are a miscalculation or two away from World War Three. Imagine Vietnam with 800,000,000 Viet Cong! Oh God, please look after that man and show him the way through this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: heric Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:43 PM allie: I don't believe the aspects you complain of were borne from an insensitivity to world opinion. I think that after careful deliberation, they decided that under the necessities of the situation, the U.S. can only devote a certain amount of time to coalition building. I believe they tried very carefully to stress the importance to them of international support, but they cannot spend too much time garnering worldwide consensus; it would be like herding mudcats, and as time passes disagreement as to appropriate actions and specifics will increase, not coalesce. This is a time for action, and the U.S. cannot spend much time begging for support. They have to do what they believe they have to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Lepus Rex Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:44 PM I agree, Jack. Despite all my flippant remarks earlier, the speech really did concern me. I felt really sick listening to it. "We" really don't want to try and occupy Afghanistan... ---Lepus Rex |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:44 PM Some people hate "America" (whatever that means) for some reasons, others for others. If you publish a fatwah that declares all Americans fair game because they are Satan, you are making it pretty clear that your objection tot hem is based on the fact that they think poeple should choose their own religion. That's the big Satanic position which fanatacism can't tolerate. Or maybe it is just because we have been involved in so many stupid international blunders. I concur we have earned some of our enemies, on the whole. Allie, tell me why you think "they out there" hate "all of us". I know it isn't an equation with much substance, but what is your thinking on it? A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: gus C Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:52 PM I thought it was a lot better than "we're gonna get the folks who knocked down these buildings". I was very glad to hear it sounds like it is going to be a very tempered response. I think we should air drop loaves of bread , see how many people in Afganistan figure out what's in their best interest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: allie kiwi Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:53 PM I apologise for coming across as insensitive. But beleive me, we are just as afraid as you of war. and it looks scarily like no-one in power over there is considering anything BUT war. How about looking at other options? Instead of War, the USA should put money into the economies that prodiced these terrorists. we do not have a one country to fight - there are people from Lebanon, there are people from Afghanistan. There is also the United Arab Emirates. do we bomb them all? If we kill Bin Laden, 100 more will rise to fill his martyred shoes. And beleive me, and a martyr he will become. What is a fundamentalist? what produces a terrorist is what we should be asking. Why did they hate so much? what can we do to prevent it? I do not like war... people who often fight believe strongly so much in something that the others equally strongly oppose. You cannot do the same back to people - it makes you as evil. So if Bush goes in guns blazing and kills a lot of civilians, he will be just as bad - worse even, because he had a choice That is my simplistic view. I am sorry if I offend. Allie
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:54 PM I Hurricane: your example is hilarious! "It would be like herding mudcats!" That's terrific! Can you imagine what a job that would be? Jack the Sailor: Ok. So you weren't impressed with the speech. And you are afraid. What would you suggest we do? Invite the Terriorists in for tea? Maybe a chat about what they view as their justification for killing over 5,000 people? God forbid that you were ever on a highjacked airplane, but if you were, do you think it would help to tell the highjackers that you didn't agree with the "line in the sand?" Good luck if that ever happens. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:57 PM No offense intended, Allie, and none taken. I understand your fear. In New Zealand, are you? Don't think you have much to fear there. Thanks for your message, and its honesty. I wish the approach you have described could honestly be taken effectively. But I don't believe that it could. I have no idea what the costs would be to resurrect economies which have themselves failed to stand up and flourish. I am not sure all the money in the world could cure the inherent misconceptions that are at work. I don't ean to sound glib, really. I just have no idea how to think about so monumental an idea. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Amos Date: 20 Sep 01 - 11:59 PM If you missed the speech, it can be found at this site. I would ask that you review it before reaching your own conclusion about its import. A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:04 AM AMOS! How dare you? You're asking for INFORMED opinions? How unMudcat of you! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Jack the Sailor Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM None of them hate all Americans, But when American action or inaction starves them, cause their houses to be destroyed or kills their family members they get pissed off. George Senior gave lip service to the "oppressed" people of Iraq. Bombed the hell out of their infrastructure them stopped a few hundred miles short of liberating them. We Still Bomb ten years later. And our sanctions are causing the people to suffer. If George Bush does the same to Afghanistan, Iraq(Again), Syria, Sudan, Lybia, Lebanon, Etc. It will not end well. God Bless America. God Please help America. Israel is now accusing Arrafat of breaking the ceasefire. because a couple of gunmen attacked a car. The Israeli's are now considering Military action against civilian and police targets in Palestinian territory when they know damned well that Arrafat had now control over these terrorists. Of couse the next bombing will make a few more lads take up arms to avenge their friend and family. Do we want them to export this madness to the rest of the world? If Bush is going to destroy Taliban I hope to God that his coalition will be there to pick up the pieces. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: allie kiwi Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:06 AM Yes, I am from New Zealand. And I think we are in a tricky situation here being nuclear free - not a popular stance under most circumstances, and certainly not now. Also, our Navy and Airforce almost cease to exist in December, so even if we say, 'yep we'll be in with bells on!', we will need to add 'can you pick us up on the way?' As to my thoughts on why people have dislike and anger against the USA, I'll have to come back with that later, if you don't mind. I've needs must get my toad up from his nap (the resident toddler). Allie |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:09 AM Allie, economics has very little to do with it. Osama bin Laden is a millionaire many times over. Some of his recruits may well have joined because of poverty but most are fanatics as well. Their reasons for hating us are several. 1) bin Laden has stated that we have invaded the sacred soil of the Arabian pennisula because we have a base in Saudi Arabia. The fact that the Saudi Govt.invited us seems not to matter. 2)The treatment of the Palestinian Arabs by the Israeli Govt. We back the Israelis with Massive aid. Nuff sed. 3) The control of Jerusalem. The Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem covers the third holiest spot in Islam; the place where Mohammad ascended to heaven, and the Al Aqsa mosque is the associated Mosque. The fly in the ointment is that that's the same place where Solomans Temple once stood and that's sacred to the Jews who happen to control Jerusalem. This is simplistic but you get the idea. troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: CarolC Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:15 AM My honest response is that I was slightly more comfortable with him prior to hearing his speach. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: DougR Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:19 AM Jeeze, Carol, how could that be possible? You mean to say you were once comfortable with him? What a puzzlement. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: gus C Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:20 AM I didn't hear it being a scarier line in the sand then it was obviously going to be. I thought it was more diplomatic then most things he has said. I wanna know who's idea it was to name it OPERATION INFINITE JUSTICE, that scared the beegezus out of me, that someone could suggest that and it would leave whatever room it was suggested in, mineaswell call it OPERATION WWWIII. Maybe that is why I found the speech mild, I thought for the first time he measured his words, careful not to paint the whole middle east with a brush stroke and most importantly implying empathy with the citizens of Afganistan, as themselves suffering unfortunately with the taliban goverment. I think it will be the careful, focused response, more now than I did yesterday. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: katlaughing Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:26 AM I did not listen, I cannot stomach the sound of his voice, nor looking at his smug smirking face. I will, however, go read it. Thanks, Amos, for the link. Rog heard the Canadians were calling for trials at the Hague for bin Laden and/or whomever. This makes a lot more sense to me than any kind of war. Whatever America does will have repercussions around the world. Rog also heard on NPR or tv, that Bush had used the word "crusade" several times in the past few days. This, imo, shows his complete ignorance of world politics and history. Allie Kiwi, you make some very good points. If you look back through some of the threads immediately after last Tuesday, you will find many of us agree that the reasons why these kinds of things happen are of extreme importance. If America acts with cooler heads and manages to not get into a protracted worthless Viet Nam type non-declared war in Afghanistan, it will be because her citizens have let their voices be heard and also because governments and their people around the world have also spoken up. May (your) god make it so. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: CarolC Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:27 AM DougR, if you can find a place in the Mudcat where I have clearly stated what I thought of President Bush, please point me to it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST,Karen Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:40 AM With all due respect, Jack the Sailor, I tend to disagree with you as to who drew the line in the sand. The thought of any war makes me queasy, and this one in particular makes me feel very ill, frightened, and heart-sick. But then, I don't have to tell the relatives and friends of 6000 plus people what we're going to do about it. I thought the speech was very direct and, if he wasn't sincere, he sure has great eye control. I do agree with you that we need to really look at the events leading up to the current situation and work on finding solutions as best we can. The speech gave me more than a little hope that this will be done, I sincerely hope we won't be disappointed. I felt that the reasons given for why we are hated was a bit more patriotic than realistic but, he is new to the position, he didn't cause the past events (so far as I know or have reason to think), and...he's got a very hard position to hold at present. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: CarolC Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:41 AM In fact, if you can find more than a half dozen places where I've even made vague references to what I think of him, please let me know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Rosebrook Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:47 AM The speech, I thought, was well crafted, and delivered well. The speech scared my 14 year old daughter moreso than the events of last Tuesday. When she asked, "What's he trying to do - look tough? start a war?", I explained that it is perceived that a war has already been declared on America, and our country's leader is responding. Yes, it seemed to me that Bush is preparing the people for the beginning of WWIII. As for the choice of being for us or against us that each and every country must now decide, the dichotomy is remeniscent of bin Laden. Polls are taken of the American people - are you for or against taking military action in response to the attack against America? and people are saying yes moreso than no. To what are we saying yes? How will the events of military engagement effect the lives of those people being polled? No more silk stockings? Gas vouchers? Electricity rations? What are we in for? I appreciated Bush making the distinction between people of the Middle East and terrorists, between true Islams and those who would distort religious beliefs. It was good to hear those words from this country's leader. As did so many others, I condemned the Taliban several years ago when they began inflicting human rights violations on the people of Afghanistan. It took an act of terrorism directed at us of this caliber for America to take a stand against a regime so horrific. I pray that our world's leaders will look back and learn from history, and stop repeating the same mistakes. rose |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Don Firth Date: 21 Sep 01 - 12:55 AM I hardly expected to be, but I was pretty impressed with Bush's speech. Among other things, he made it quite plain that wemay see overt military actions taken, and then again we may not! Now, that may seem ambiguous, but under these bizarre (to Americans) circumstances, it isn't. It's pretty obvious that a lot of what is going to take place will be covert. And that's the way it should be. Has to be. I heard a couple of programs earlier today (9/20) that featured some pretty knowledgeable people (experts on terrorism) discussing how terrorists were handled in their countries, how effective it had or had not been, and what they thought the U. S. should do. Bush (or his advisors) seem to have picked up on some of the better ideas -- which do not include wholesale slaughter in Afghanistan. One of the ideas was the creation of a special office to handle and coordinate all matters relating to terrorist activity, and that is exactly what Bush has done by creating a new cabinet post. Using a sledge-hammer is a really dumb way to try to swat mosquitoes. You get damned few mosquitoes that way and you do a hell of a lot of unnecessary damage. If Bush doesn't know that, I'm pretty sure that his advisors do. Before you conclude that the country is under the control of a total idiot, listen to or read the speech -- carefully. No, I didn't vote for him. And if I had the chance, I wouldn't vote for him again. But there he is, and I think he did pretty well tonight. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: kendall Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:06 AM I forgot all about it. Gordon Bok came for the evening and overnight, and we made music and swapped stories until after 1 am. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: CarolC Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:15 AM (heh heh heh... that oughta keep him busy for a while ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:17 AM Carol, nevermind what DougR says. His attitudeis such that republicans can do no wrong. It makes me wonder what he thought of David Duke. Like, Kat, I cannot stand Junior. I cannot stand his voice, I cannot stand the fact that he either always has a smirk on his face or a look of utter stupidity. I did read the speach, though, and I have shivers going down my spine. I see war abroad with anyone who does not agree with the US. I see anybody who holds their own political beliefs being arrested. Freedom of speach will fly out the window once again. Such an elusive bird is that. Everyday I see cars and houses all of a sudden flying their flags and for the above reasons I have stated I have refused to fly one of my own. I also noticed that references were made to praying and God. That also I see as wrong. To me it says that only religions that believe in God (or Allah) are valid. That means that the hundreds of other beliefs floating around the country have no voice. To me this points to another threat besides terrorism. This points to a revision of the bill of rights. NIT |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: wysiwyg Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:23 AM I think how the speech was made, in terms of crafting it, is quite simple. He found a voice the other day in a press conference-- the stuff leading up to "Dead or Alive." (That line was a Bad BooBoo.) But before that line, he had begun to preach. He had begun to find a voice and to say what his heart had in it. This speaking from the heart shooting from the hip, continued since that day. So I think the speechwriters studied THAT-- George at his best till then-- someone they had probably never seen-- and wrote accordingly. Also some of the lines in tonight's talk also were clearly his. I think his lifetime of church-going simply kicked in-- he has obviously heard a lot of good preaching, that's all, and now he's using those lessons to preach what he thinks matters in this situation. In between talking about what matters, he is as dum as ever, and terrified about speaking-- see the fear just before and after he steps up to the plate. I mean podium. But in the grip of something that has affected him deeply, he is coming out of that terror to preach, because the "cause" is more important to him than the fear. And I don't mean the stuff about prayer-- for a Christian that part was amazingly restrained, I thought. I mean, preaching his mission, our need for resolve, etc., and to fight terrorism. Another thing that has changed is that he is actually being himself much more-- he is clearly having a lot of feelings, not just mouthing a lot of rehearsed positions his handlers have fed him. He is connected now to his gut-- a lesson George Senior never did learn. From this place I think he can actually think much more clearly. Finally I think he is finding (God help us all), a project he can truly own, completely separate from his father's legacy or the demands of the fragile Republican coalition who "elected" him and who have been running his game for him. He has had to be let loose to BE the Prezz, and he clearly relishes it--- poor Dick Cheney having to back off to stay in a safe place--- George is out of the nest now probably for good. Oh yes, and one other thing he did tonight-- didja miss it? I saw a man starting a project he knows full well will almost certainly require that we send him back to Penny Ave. for another four. First and ten! yours truly, I remain, ~Not a Bush Supporter, Just a Keen Observer |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: Troll Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:25 AM DiD he say YOU had to pray? Which God was he referring to? Did he say? NO? I thought not. As far as Doug thinking that Republicans can do no wrong, I think he holds the Republican leaders to a higher standard than the Democrats did Bill Clinton and his ilk. It is a bit strange to hear liberals (I'm speaking generically now) worried about the bill of rights when most of them have been working like beavers to tear up the Second Amendment. That's more than just a little hypocritical, wouldn't you say? troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Bush's speech From: GUEST Date: 21 Sep 01 - 01:33 AM Odd, but I don't recall ever saying that I am against the right to bear arms. Nor did I recall saying I was a Democrat. Living under that bridge must cause you to make too many assumptions. NIT |