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Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric?
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Subject: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:24 PM My son turns 14 tomorrow and wants an electric guitar for his birthday, and wants lessons. He says he doesn't want to be like the kids who just hack around with them, he wants to really learn to play it. This is good. The question: Is an electric guitar the best one to learn on, or is there more to be learned musically on an acoustic instrument that would then translate to the electric guitar later? (I am aware that there are acoustic guitars with electric amplifiers, so include those in the mix of answers.) Obviously the guitar to get him is the one that he will actually play, so I'm not going to strong-arm him on this. I'll take him over to one of the musical instrument stores and will look at the guitars for students. But I'd like some talking points on the pros and cons of learning on one versus the other. In his lifetime he can buy as many guitars as he can afford, but where should we start? Qualifiers: My kids have been raised with a lot of classical music and folk music, though right now they tend to listen primarily to rock. My concern is that he learn guitar in such a way that he will have the broadest choice in the direction he goes. I grew up with music but have always felt guilty for not being able to afford lessons for the kids. My piano is an antique, it looks great but needs to be refurbished so it isn't an instrument for serious practice. The fact that he is interested in music now is good and I want to let him learn while he's interested. I don't want to let this interest cool and possibly miss the opportunity for a passionate amateur to make up for years of no lessons in his early childhood. We'll figure out a way to afford lessons (his dad has deeper pockets--we'll start there!) I'll ask around about classes and teachers, and a teacher might have a useful answer also regarding instruments. But until I get to that point, what can Mudcatters contribute to this family debate? Thanks for your thoughts! Stilly River Sage |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:28 PM Acoustic... if for no other reason than it can be played anywhere... and electric requires gear.... Also, because of neck thickness and string gauge, you'll develop more hand strength faster on acoustic.... |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Bert Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:34 PM Who is going to teach him and what does he/her think? Otherwise I'd go along with Clinton, and acoustic can stay out on the sofa and be played at any odd moment. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:42 PM I agree with Clinton. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:48 PM I learned on an acoustic Stella, then moved to a better guitar (which means almost any guitar in the world) which I think was some sort of Guild. I traded that after a few years--I was then going on 15 I think--for a Fender Telecaster. Played that for a year, and noticed that it was a completely different type of guitar playing. Traded the Telecaster for an acoustic and played acoustic for the rest of my life, with the occasional drift into electric now and then. As Clinton said, it makes the hands 'stronger' to start with acoustic, and forces the guitarist to pay attention to slides and technique, etc. I'd suggest acoustic first. Then electric. However, people may have views that are opposite and be 100% right for them. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 06 Mar 06 - 05:55 PM Accoustic electric, epiphone Red Dot, if he really wants to play more rock and roll than other types of music...That way he can learn how to use amplifiers and distorsion pedals, and still practise with the accoustics. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: RichM Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:02 PM Either one is a path to music. I have always played acoustic (then what's that fender telecaster doing in the corner ??) but if he wants to start on electric, i see no harm in that... |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,Jim Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:08 PM I started on acoustic, because I was listening to that type of music in the 60s. I later obtained a hollow body electric as my tastes changed, but now play mostly acoustic. My son started on a solid body electric, because he was a blues/rock fan. He later played punk through high school and now plays mostly bluegrass mandolin. The Les Paul sometimes stays in the case for months at a time, but he can't bring himself to get rid of it. I think the point I'm trying to make(I'm never too sure) is that I feel he should get the instrument that will motivate him. Also, a cheap electric (Strat clone) is often easier to play than a cheap acoustic. If you go for acoustic, get a reasonably good one. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:08 PM "learn how to use amplifiers and distorsion pedals" Learn how to play first... then learn how to wank.... |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:21 PM It's about his choice of music Clinton, not about your dislike of eletric guitars. If you want to play rock and roll an accosutic guitar will just get trashed in a year or two. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:24 PM Treu to what motivates him. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 06 Mar 06 - 06:29 PM Who said I dislike electric guitars??????? |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:02 PM simple compromise, an electric and an acoustic.. good quality low cost beginers guitars are easily available everywhere these days. eg.. a fender squier strat starter pack including small amp,[+ accesories] and an art of lutherie acoustic.. bet you could find the lot for less than $350 if you shop around.. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: michaelr Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:48 PM There are plenty of guitars that combine both worlds; i.e. acoustic guitars with pickups, low action and slim necks. Even Martin makes some such (originally marketed to women, I believe; some mention was made in the recent Martin thread). Seems to me that would be the ideal starter guitar. He can make up his mind later whether he wants to plug in or not; the option is there. Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Peace Date: 06 Mar 06 - 07:50 PM And THAT is a great idea. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:07 PM .. it is a good idea.. i have a chinese made fender stratacoustic [strat shape bowl back acoustic with electric guitar neck + piezo pickup] that i'm fitting magnetic pickups and tone/vol controls to.. so i'll have independent piezo and true 'electic' outputs to 2 amps.. ..however, dont foget a 14 year old guys priorities may be entirely different to ours.. and teenage girl impressing 'rockstar' image might be just as important to him as any of the more functional playing requirements we'd demand.. maybe, should also checkout Xtreme metal and skatepunk guitars !!? my 13 year old nephew was bought a 'run-of-the-mill' electro-acoustic last xmas.. which wasn't up to the job of running good through a grunge distortion pedal to meet the satisfaction of tthe school rock band he was hoping to join.. i dont think his parents took into account what he wanted to acheive.. so now a year later the acoustic guitar is dumped neglected in his bedroom while he now devotes his spare time to getting in with a skateboard gang.. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Mar 06 - 08:49 PM punkfolkrocker, I think you've hit it on the head. Thanks, all, for your observations--I'll have him read through this thread this evening. The goal for both of us is to have him enjoy music, but the goal of starting out in a way that cultivates the skills to do what he really wants, that's his mother speaking. Finding the teacher is my next goal. I'll call around and find out what the options are. There are various music stores in the area, the one I have in mind is old and well established. They should have some recommendations. Plus, I work at a university with a good music department where I might find some suggestions. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: freightdawg Date: 06 Mar 06 - 09:30 PM I think it would be important for him to sit down and express his ultimate (or, as far down the road as possible) goal. If it is true musicianship and the ability to move easily from one instrument to another I would say start on the acoustic. It is more demanding in several areas, and has been mentioned, can be played anywhere at any time for short periods of time (important during those "build up the callouses" stage). However, if he truly wants to focus on the electric side with no real plans to cross over to an acoustic guitar, mandolin, banjo, etc, then start him with a nice electric and amplifier system. It will not be as painful to learn initially, and with a good set of headphones he will not make the household pet too miserable. I would try to communicate to him (maybe a good salesman would help here) that the two instruments may LOOK similar, but in style and substance they are really two different animals. Many start with electrics and switch over to acoustics, that is for sure. However, I think the easier path is to start with an acoustic, and then add the electric. Skills learned on the acoustic are more easily transfered to the electric, but some less-than-exact techniques that work quite handily on the electric will have to be un-learned when the change is made to an acoustic. Bottom line is what is going to float his boat. He may think girls dig the lead guitarist in a rock band, but does he understand the sweet nectar of a lovely little love ballad and a moonlit night with just the object of his affection as the audience for his acoustic?? Some dawgs weren't born yesterday, ya know. Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: M.Ted Date: 06 Mar 06 - 11:17 PM Find the kids that really play, and ask who taught them--you need to find a teacher than understands how a 14 year old thinks about music--As to guitars, acoustic guitar will actually yield better music faster--there are a lot more things to get under control when you play an electric--even still, 14 year olds have a high tolerance for uncontrolled noise, so it can work either way. You can now get playable guitars for cheap at Target, and I suspect, if you check the newspapers, you can find them, or related ones used for even cheaper--Punkfolkrocker, you should re-post your list of good cheap instruments-- |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Cluin Date: 06 Mar 06 - 11:24 PM All the best rockers also play good acoustic and most learned on them. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Nick Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:15 AM I have a (just turned)14 year old son who started playing about 4 years ago. He now mostly plays electric guitar but will pretty much pick up anything with various numbers of strings and play it. There are 5 or 6 guitars knocking round the house so there is a choice. We started him with a Spanish guitar which was recommended by school where he started learning (because his friend was doing it - he had earlier said he wasn't interested!). We still have the Spanish but I tend to play it more than him now. I have a Squier Strat that I had bought in a moment of middle aged yearning and he increasingly moved towards playing that once he knew what sort of music he wanted to play (he is a Steve Vai - Joe Satriani fan). I would say that he now plays the electric guitar 90% + of the time mostly trying to play faster and more accurately (if your son is interested he has a site at here which has some of his music on). The Spanish guitar wasn't a barrier to him learning but the availability of the electric was useful at the right moment. I haven't played it very much since... The thing that has made a difference to him is the enjoyment he gets from it and the motivation to get better - without that it doesn't matter what guitar you get. Whhe plays every day and has started getting involved with a couple of bands as well as humouring his father by playing with him sometimes. The right teacher I reckon is really important - but the right teacher for a beginner may not be the right teacher in a year or two's time. When my son started he was taught at school along with others. When he left primary school we found him a teacher locally who was ok at first but increasingly I felt was not really thinking about Zander's development as a player; he would come along do a lesson jam a couple of twelve bars and go. The teacher decided at Christmas that we would give it a rest for a while and my son could keep teaching himself (via his ears and Guitar Techniques magazine)!! He has his first lesson tonight with a new teacher who has been recommended and who specialises in electric rock guitar and seems much more tuned into to what he is doing and seems enthusiastic (as well as being a mean guitarist himself) - we will see what transpires I hope your son enjoys himself and gets through the inevitable frustrating plateaux that he will encounter and comes out the end still loving to play. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: mooman Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:31 AM I've played both acoustic and electric most of my life and now play a very nice electro-acoustic... the best of both worlds and easy to play! Good luck to your son and his endeavours! Peace moo |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Tootler Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:34 AM Whatever the instrument, get what he *really* wants to play, otherwise you will waste your money. I had a daughter who wanted to play clarinet, but when she approached the school about lessons, they fobbed her off with a tenor horn (brass band instrument, not saxophone) which was not what she wanted and - surprise, surprise, she lasted very little time. Eventually we borrowed my sister's clarinet and she was away. As a result we bought her a clarinet and although she has not played for a while, she still has it and always enjoyed playing it. Geoff |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Hand-Pulled Boy Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:51 AM He may start to want to play songs so acoustic is the way to go. They can always to transformed into an electric 'style' at a later date. So long as you don't get him a banjo everything should be fine! |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker Date: 07 Mar 06 - 08:54 AM give me any oportunity and i'll recommend the Hofner Colorama.. amazing value for money as it was never advertised well enough to ignite mass market interest so is now being discounted at ridiculously low clearance bin prices. great minimalist Gibson style woodwork and slim fast set-neck superb sounding humbuckers [or P90 version if preferred] a beginner guitarists dream electric guitar sounds good from mellow jazz to heavy rock styles.. [hardtail, so no tremelo to blight the tuning and intonation for inexperienced players] then just need a 10 or 15 watt practice amp with headphone socket to sort out the basics ebay listings: http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Fws%2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=hofner+colorama&category only proviso, this is a potential working pro standard instrument, sold very cheap and underpriced, so depending where you buy them, may expect less than accurate straight from factory set up, and the occasional dud with uneven frets.. but if in that situation you should be able to demand a better replacement. an electric guitar like thi would leave plenty spare change to also buy an art of lutherie / epiphone/ yamaha/ samick/ etc acoustic.. seriously, these days, cost should be no barrier to providing a beginner with both a good acoustic and an electric guitar to learn to play equally well.. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Mar 06 - 10:00 AM Last week I was at Sam's Club shopping for something else entirely and walked past the entertainment section where they had both electric and acoustic (electric with an amplifier) guitars. I didn't take notes on what they were, just noticed them. One of each of those together would cost about $450 (US). This has been great advice. The birthday youth has made his request for dinner (chicken parmesan and chocolate cake for dessert) and we'll swing by a music store on the way home to start our search. I'm sure I'll have more questions. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: alanabit Date: 07 Mar 06 - 11:05 AM I would start on acoustic for all the reasons given. It is more flexible, you can build up the hand strength and you can translate the chords, scales etc to an electric later on. However, if all he really wants to do is sound like the rockers, he may as well start out on electric from day one. You can bend up a whole tone without risking a snapped string and you get round to using more of the fretboard earlier (though not necessarily better). My six year old had a few months of lessons on classical guitar, but now he likes learning Beatles and Stones licks on the electric, because it sounds noisier and more distorted. He is not turning into Eric Clapton, but he is at least picking the thing up and playing it. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: PoppaGator Date: 07 Mar 06 - 12:58 PM Electrified acoustic would seem to be the best bet, unless the kid is truly interested only in electric-guitar music, in which case give him an instrument he will want to continue to play, i.e., an electric. I wouldn't go for a straight unamplified acoustic guitar in this day and age ~ you might as well start learning the basics of amplified sound right from the beginning ~ not necessarily distortion and such "wanking," but simply how to coax a variety of sounds from your instrument, including the load-and-clear acoustic sound that any working folk-style performer needs, as well as some semblance of a blues/rock electrified sound. I'm a strictly acoustic player myself, and perhaps I'm oversensitive about my own abysmal ignorance of sound technology, but I think that electronics has now become an integral part of guitar playing and any beginner should be positioned to learn something about it. Whichever way you go, be glad that low-end mass production of stringed instruments has become so much better than it was a generation ago, thanks to reverse engineering, computer technology, and robotics. Cheap guitars are no longer as grossly inferior as they used to be; their tone might not measure up to that of a pricy top-of-the-line model, but the frets are going to positioned correctly so that the instrument will be tunable and the action will be reasonably low. Back when I was a boy, a cheap acoustic guitar would be impossible to tune up accurately and hurt like hell to play. Things are different now: I had occasion to borrow a Made-in-China electric/acoustic Washburn not long ago, and was really pleasantly surprised at its quality. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Mar 06 - 01:10 PM Stilly - You might want to look at Ridglea music over at the 6333 building on Camp Bowie Blvd. They have a nice selection of Seagull and Art of Lutherie guitars { basicly the same company }. They offer lessons too. Some friends of mine went there with their 14 year old girl and they were pleased. I can run by there this Saturday morning if you would like me to scout their stock. Send me a PM if you have any questions. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 07 Mar 06 - 01:43 PM Thanks, Wesley. Do you know anything about Mr. E's? They're closer to us than the Camp Bowie address, though Camp Bowie is only 5-10 minutes further. My daughter also mentioned a guitar store in the same general area (Hulen & I-20). SRS |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Wesley S Date: 07 Mar 06 - 02:02 PM Yes - they carry Martins and Ibenez I think. I haven't shopped there for anything other than picks. I'm have a brain freeze about the other place but it's in the Cityview shopping center. It faces the freeway - Brook Mays Music - that's it. Also if you decide to go electric there is a Guitar Center over on Hulen - close to Chili's. The service there is awful. Unless you want your sales people to stand around and compare piercings and "ink". But they do sell cheap. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Kaleea Date: 07 Mar 06 - 05:29 PM I tell my students &/or their parents that one who has always played an acoustic can always pick up an electric & play it. One who has always played an electric cannot always play an acoustic. When the guitar players popularly known for electric were at home, they picked up their favorite old acoustic. Go with the acoustic with electronics "on board." |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Bert Date: 08 Mar 06 - 02:13 AM And for the chocolate cake try Rigo Jancsi |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Nick Date: 08 Mar 06 - 06:49 AM I spoke to my son last night on the way to his guitar lesson and he reckoned acoustic was the more useful in retrospect even though he plays electric mostly now. Main reason was that the electric is easier to play - ie action, lightness of strings etc and so the acoustic was better for the development of his playing |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,Bob Dylan & The Band Date: 08 Mar 06 - 07:13 AM SO GET AN ELECTRIC AND RAISE THE ACTION ! that'll build up underdeveloped finger muscles and callouses.. then lower it back down again to gain all the benefits and advantages of late 20th & 21st Century guitar playing and technology. honestly, some people who should know better, don't. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,Richard Date: 08 Mar 06 - 09:17 AM I treat them as two (almost) different instruments. If he wants to play electric guitar, that's what he's got to have. And the various electro - acoustic combinations, while they may have their place(no-one asks to get born as a bastard)are neither one thing or the other. Love Richard |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Grab Date: 08 Mar 06 - 09:43 AM Start with a nylon-string classical. First off, it's better for toughening the fingers - you get used to having to hold strings down (there's some feedback from the strings which you don't get from ultra-light electric strings), but the strings are physically larger so he won't cheesewire his fingers to death (as he would with a steel-string acoustic). It also gets you better technique than you'd ever get from an electric - electric guitar teaches you shortcuts which don't make you a good guitarist. Learning these shortcuts is fine, but learn them *after* you know how to do it properly... Beware of starting him on an Art and Lutherie, or a Seagull, or a Martin, or anything expensive. A cheap classical which plays OK (maybe second-hand) should come in at about $100, if UK prices are anything to go by. (Get someone who plays guitar to check it out first though.) If he sticks it out for 6 months, the reward can be a Squier Strat plus amp. But don't buy anything over $100 to start with. One thing to check - how big are his hands? If he's big for 14, then a full-size is probably fine. Otherwise if his hands are fairly small then a 3/4 size might be better, and for that it's a 3/4 classical all the way. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Mar 06 - 10:08 AM The salesman at the music store we started with yesterday was quite frank about the guitars we were looking at--they are student guitars and they aren't something you buy today and sell next year for a profit. They're available for the work of learning to play the instrument, and are priced accordingly. I will PM Wesley about guitar locations and consulation on a selection. If I lived in Seattle still there would be no problem--since my guitarist father has passed away I'd call Don Firth and get all the information I need and probably lessons to boot. He's the best guitarist I know and a wonderful teacher (great voice, too!) SRS |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 08 Mar 06 - 10:23 AM At the risk of seeming pedantic, check out a good accoustic electric similar to the Epiphone Red Dot. Not overly expensive and he gets the best of both worlds. Plus, if he chucks it in when he discovers girls and cars, you can usually sell it close to what you paid for it. Anyway, my advice is let him choose, and discuss all options with someone who can teach him the best. Yours, Aye. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: mooman Date: 08 Mar 06 - 10:44 AM Not sure of the "bastard" label. An electro-acoustic is a type of instrument in its own right. My archtop electro-acoustic has an excellent acoustic sound (which several 'Catters will attest to) for a variety of styles and tunings but also has extremely good electronics when I need to plug in. Because of its versatility I have sold my other expensive handmade acoustic as being redundant and have just kept my steel-bodied resonator as a second guitar. My advice, check all options and go with what seems right for your son. Peace moo |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 08 Mar 06 - 10:52 AM If you go for an electro-accoustic I swear by the Yamaha DX range - But then again I play concertina so what do I know..;-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Mar 06 - 03:59 PM The guy at the music store agreed that as long as we stay away from banjos my son will be okay. :D |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Don Firth Date: 08 Mar 06 - 08:40 PM Well, blessings all over your heart, Maggie, for the kind words (he said, blushing modestly)!! I would have chimed in on this early, but the operational words seemed to be "electric" and "rock," and these are not my areas of expertise, so I thought I would leave it to those who know more about these things than I do. Were I to put forth my ideas of the best way to go, I figured I would probably have a whole batch of hard-charging folkies on me like pit-bulls on a pork roast. But then, I took note of where you say, "He says he doesn't want to be like the kids who just hack around with them, he wants to really learn to play it." Ah, SO!! And then Graham (Grab) said essentially what I would say. While I was cowering in the corner, he was A Man of Courage! No matter what kind of music a person wants to play, the Among pianists, there is no essential difference between the techniques of, say, classical pianist Artur Rubinstein, "country pianist" Floyd Cramer, and jazz/ragtime pianist Eubie Blake. Whether these virtuosi play on a concert grand piano, an upright, or an electronic keyboard, the technique is the same. Why should playing the guitar be any different? When watching guitarists of various musical styles (playing a wide variety of guitars, classic, acoustic, or electric), especially those who play with the right-hand fingers rather than with a pick, the better players' right hand position and technique duplicates or at least approximates that of classic guitarists. And, incidentally, a finger-style player can learn to use a pick in about a half-hour's practice, but not the other way around. The main difference in left hand fingering and technique that I've seen lies with the non-classic guitarists occasionally "thumbing" notes on the sixth string—having never learned how to properly do a barre chord (Wow, listen to those shrieks of protest!!). But most of the best guitarists keep the left thumb behind the neck, rather than wrapped around it. As far as the guitar itself is concerned, quite a number of jazz guitarists prefer a nylon-string classic guitar over a steel-string. Probably the best known is Charlie Byrd. And I once saw (on the "Glen Campbell Goodtime Hour") Chet Atkins (yes, that Chet Atkins!) walk out carrying a José Ramirez concert guitar (same model Segovia played), sit down, prop his left foot on a footstool, place the guitar on his left leg, and play Francisco Tàrrega's Requerdo de la Alhambra (Tremolo Study) as well as I have ever heard anyone play it. One doesn't do that without studying a fair amount of classic technique. Ever wonder how come Chet Atkins was so prodigiously nimble-fingered compared to many other finger-pickers? Efficiency. Classic technique on almost any musical instrument is the product of centuries of experimentation and gradual perfection. And, the process is still going on. Using classic technique doesn't mean you have to play classical music. But learning classic technique gives you the widest range of versatility. You can take off in just about any direction you want. Same as with the piano. But then, would the young 'un really be interested in putting in the time and, perhaps, deferring instant gratification for a bit (which, while learning the basics of any style, he would have to do anyway)? With a good classic guitar teacher (preferably one who is open to the idea that he may or may not want to go on to play classical music like Pepe Romero or Christopher Parkening), within a year or two of lessons and "woodshedding" with the instrument, he would be off to a darn good start for just about any musical direction he wanted to go. Worth his thinking about carefully. Music, if one wishes, can become a life-long study and a source of immense satisfaction and enjoyment. If he were to walk into a garage band rehearsal with a nylon-string classic and heard any hoots of derision from his confreres, would he have the courage of his convictions and the strength of purpose to imperiously stare the philistines down? To allow oneself to be a slave to mere image is to willingly fall victim to an insidious form of tyranny. As my drinking uncle used to say, "Them's my sediments." Anyway, more power to him, no matter what he decides to do. Good hunting!! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 08 Mar 06 - 09:28 PM Maybe I should have started this thread by saying "John Dwyer's grandson wants to learn to play the guitar" and that would have covered a lot of ground regarding intent--the kids share a family resemblance when it comes to pursuing interests. When they get their teeth into something, they want to learn how to do it right. :) Thanks, Don! I think an acoustic guitar wouldn't go to waste if it were set aside for an electric (his sister has perked up her ears with all of this guitar talk). We may need to do some careful negotiations so that while the theory and technique are being learned, the goal is always in sight, even if it is more Eric Clapton than Christopher Parkening. Maggie (SRS) |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,M.Ted Date: 09 Mar 06 - 11:20 AM With due respect to Don Firth, I think there are chords that comes up from time to time that cannot be played without wrapping the thumb around, but they are few and far between. ;-) The reality is that basic classical guitar technique and basic electric guitar technique are pretty much the same. There are a a lot of advanced classical guitar things that one will likely never use(though you could)--but the bottom line stuff is the same. There is a very simple reason for this--the underlying logic of the fretboard is the same. Twenty odd years ago, when I began teaching guitar classes, I called up lots of people who I'd known over the years who used to play guitar and didn't anymore, to find out why this was so--There was one answer--as time went by, their musical tastes changed, and they couldn't adapt their playing to the kind of music they liked-- The reason for that was simple--they had learned the specifics that they needed for a given style, but they'd never learned the basics-- That is, they could play Mississippi John Hurt's "Candyman" note for note, but couldn't play a simple quarter note scale, couldn't locate notes on the fretboard, couldn't play intervals, couldn't play a melody, and could't read music or follow a chord chart in time-- Anyway, I wanted to let Don know he isn't the only one who thinks that way-- |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Scoville Date: 09 Mar 06 - 01:01 PM I don't have a whole lot to say about guitar types since I've never been interested in electric and have never played one, but, from my perpective, I think it would be more important to find a good teacher who can offer your son a lot in whatever genre of guitar interests him. I did take lessons but I use almost none of what I learned. I didn't know enough about guitar to know what it was I wanted to play (well, I knew, but didn't know where to start). I could already read music since I was raised on piano. I had a good teacher but we were a poor match--he liked jazz and I was mooning over Norman Blake. The only thing I learned from him that still applies is the concept of chord melody. We also butted heads because he insisted on bar chords and I couldn't do them. I have small hands (I'm a girl) and I was using my mother's Guild F-30, which is a lovely little guitar and terrific for picking, but has high action and, even with medium-light strings, high tension (I like high action). He pestered me until I handed him the guitar and said, "Here, you do it," and it turned out that he couldn't play bar chords on it, either. My hands don't fit around the neck of a classical guitar so that was the end of that. I'm still not a great guitarist but at least I've been able to teach myself, or learn informally from others, the kinds of things I wanted to learn earlier. I wish now that I had the time/money to take flat-pick lessons. Sigh. Maybe when I'm out of school again. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Clinton Hammond Date: 09 Mar 06 - 01:06 PM Chet Atkins was self-taught... |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: Scoville Date: 09 Mar 06 - 01:19 PM I wouldn't dare. I have a lifelong reputation for bad fingering (on all instruments: Piano, guitar, dulcimer, probably on fiddle but I've never had a teacher so nobody's ever corrected me). Actually, I would dare. I do. Only I would never tell anyone that I'm "doing it right" because I know I'm probably not. I've taught dulcimer before and luckily, it's not that formal so I can tell people to do whatever is comfortable. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: PoppaGator Date: 09 Mar 06 - 01:44 PM All due respect, but I disagree with the position that all guitarists should learn to be classical guitarists first. Don's one of my favorite Mudcatters, someone who obviously has vast experience and knowledge, who always has something pertinent to say; someone with whom I usually agree, and by all accounts an excellent player, singer, and teacher. Do keep in mind, however, that he is a militant nylon-string-guitar proponent and player ~ not, strictly speaking, a classical guitarist, but someone who plays folk music on a classical guitar. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it's pretty unlikely that anyone's 14-year-old son is likely to take that particular direction. My own first guitar was a classical type, and I took a few classical lessons (one summer ~ just six or seven weekly lessons) which undoubtedly helped my development. However, I would not recommend the same kind of instrument to today's beginners. I think any new player (except one specifically committed to classical guitar music) should get accustomed from the git-go to the narrower string spacing and the feel of the strings on a standard steel-string acoustic or electric instrument. Also, I don't think it is always necessary to play barre chords. For certain styles (notably blues and ragtime, especially in regard to the F major chord as used in the key of C), barre chording is flat-out wrong. Advanced students may need to unlearn the standard barre-chord technique and learn to play the bottom string with the left thumb if they develop an interest in this genre. At least, that what Stephan Grossman says in his books and tapes, citing the Rev. Gary Davis as his source, and I for one respect his input. |
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Subject: RE: Learning guitar: Acoustic vs Electric? From: GUEST,banjoman Date: 09 Mar 06 - 03:46 PM Both my sons grew up surrounded by guitars & banjos and have both evolved into fine musicians with a very wide taste in music. Both started out on acoustic instruments but went on to electric and back and forth ever since. Fortunatley my wife is a good music teacher and I was able to pass on a few pointers as well. The important thing is to encourage your son to enjoy whatever he decided to play. There are also a lot of very good books and CD's which may help. Your local music shop should have a list of local teacher. Good luck hope he does well |
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