ADD: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc (bawdy)

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 11:13 PM

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 11:26 PM

Yeah, The Pooka. I guess maybe you're right. It was the word "divvent" in the song "Divvent Bother Us" that made me think of Geordie dialect. They've had some good threads on that subject in the past and for some reason that one stuck in my mind.

So now my big question is; are Geordies just from Yorkshire or are they also from Northumberland? Or does Northumberland have a dialect that is similar in some ways to that of Yorkshire?

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Tweed
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 11:37 PM

L.John C., Ya poked the snake and look at it go! Good on you!

Tweed

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: little john cameron
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 11:44 PM

Aye it disnae take much Tweed. ljc

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: The Pooka
Date: 26 Mar 02 - 11:51 PM

CarolC - I dinna ken who's "right" but hurrah! fer we've provoked ol' ljc inter commentatin' a weebit upon the eff-aw' *music*! In betwixt th' Prayers & the Guns y'know. :)

Geordie, Yorkshire, Hieland, Northumberland, it's still rock 'n' roll tae me.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 12:10 AM

Ye're haudin' the cat's erse tae the sun again, ljc!!!!!

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 06:12 AM

JP: his point was that we have replaced Christianity with something that ignores spirit... namely a void... Morals and Law, are all based on Judeo/Christian morals. Your form of government was based on Indian beliefs, which include a supreme deity are they not?

And for the individual who was emotional and somewhat deranged. Guns dont kill people, people kill people (with whatever implents and devices they can) If you attach moral culpability to an inamiate object, you are being irrational as well as arrogant and unpleasant in your arguments.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Tweed
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 06:42 AM

Exactly correct, I'd much rather be shot down in the street as to being blown up in the street, or paperweighted to death in Pier One and give thanks for Charleton Heston every morning for the NRA, who works to be sure that if you,as an American citizen,happen to piss somebody off you can be dispatched quickly and efficiently by the superior fire power available to any loony who can sign their name. A far more civilized death than can be attained with a paperweight, shoehorn or scented candle.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 06:54 AM

I knew if it went long enough I could find a good laugh in this sucker...............

Spaw

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 07:35 AM

Charleton Heston and the NRA are largely responsible for promoting safe gun handling, by education and supporting existing gun legislation, and law enforcement. The NRA are a group of responsible gun owners involved in the shooting sports, who are as horrified as you are about rampant violence. Every time I hear of the Social Engineering Liberals who ignore these facts and criticise such endeavours I cringe...

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 07:47 AM

I must have mis-read the thread title. Ignoring the expletive, I thought it was a thread "all to do with music"

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 08:16 AM

"How amusing that someone complaining about the separation of church and state, and claiming that morals are not taught in schools, uses extreme profanity in the title of a thread on an open forum." (JohnP)

Profane? I can't see profaniuty in that thread title. "To treat sacred objects with irreverence, violence or disrespect." I suppose you could say that sexual activity is in some sense a sacred object, and that in some way the thread title is treating it with disprespect. At a pinch.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 08:16 AM

"How amusing that someone complaining about the separation of church and state, and claiming that morals are not taught in schools, uses extreme profanity in the title of a thread on an open forum." (JohnP)

Profane? I can't see profaniuty in that thread title. "To treat sacred objects with irreverence, violence or disrespect." I suppose you could say that sexual activity is in some sense a sacred object, and that in some way the thread title is treating it with disprespect. At a pinch.

CarolC: Geordies come from Yorkshire in the same sense that Yankees come from Texas. There used to be a little bit of Yorkshire which to outsiders where the accent sounded a bit like Geordie, but they cut it off and made a separate county called Cleveland. And they don't count as Geordies either.

Here is a site arguing about these things Basically Geordie means from Newcastle, but it's extended often to mean the people who speak thelanguage, living in the area where the language is spoken, which is essentially that part of the old kingdom of Northumbria which is on the English side of the biorder with Scotland.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 08:29 AM

The men who drafted our constitution over two hundred years ago were much better educated and more politically sophisticated than any politicians we see hanging about today. We thank God that they left us the benefit of their wisdom!

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 09:37 AM

Kevin (McGrath) says, "I think there is much more danger that a ban on public prayer is likely to generate fundamantalism than the reverse. If people laugh at you for praying in public and you go ahead and pray in public anyway, that's very brave – but you could be well on the way towards becoming vulnerable to fanaticism. Whatever your religion." Boy, ain't that the truth. But that fanaticism would be generated by the church of that person's faith, not by a school that refrained from choosing one faith's god to pray to over another faith's god.

Kevin also says: "Profane? I can't see profanity in that thread title. 'To treat sacred objects with irreverence, violence or disrespect.' I suppose you could say that sexual activity is in some sense a sacred object, and that in some way the thread title is treating it with disprespect. At a pinch." My take on it is that some people consider prayer to be sacred, and more people consider the deity to whom (or which) they pray to be sacred. To make the spurious statement that prayer has "fuck-all" to do with music is not only profane, but in many cases untrue! Many people who pray, pray in song!!! (In fact, some schools get around the prayer issue by having their choirs sing some classical-music piece that is actually a prayer.)

John P (re your post of 26-Mar-02, 10:09 PM): Right on!! No one's outlawing or banning individual prayer.

ljc: Y'mean this whole teenager-poem thing was e-mail spam???? So we don't really know who wrote that poem, or how old (s)he really is. Sorry, but that poem's credibility has just plummeted to zero in my mind.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 09:41 AM

Oops; there was supposed to be an end-italics HTML after Kevin's quote (after the words "At a pinch") in the 2nd paragraph of my last post.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: little john cameron
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 10:09 AM

Right Sharon,ah got it fae a wumman wha sends me photies o weemen wi' humungous t**s covortin wi' men wi' unbelievable c**ks!! Bit o' a contradiction there eh?
lj(new image) Cameron

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 10:15 AM

LJC, you're in a flyty mood these days!

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 10:18 AM

I own a gun. It's never killed anything except a few paper targets, and that was only because I was putting blackpowder and balls into it.

Behind every weapon of destruction is a human being wielding it, who has made a conscious choice to do so. Weapons are only a symptom, not a cause; if we want to stop people from killing each other, we have to get at the cause. If you want the dog to stop biting, you don't cut off its tail.

Now. When I was in public school, in the 80s, religion was never an issue until a bunch of government people got together and said we needed to make it an issue. I don't recall race ever being an issue at my school either. Perhaps I have forgotten many things over the passage of time; but I do remember that I had black friends, Asian friends, Jewish friends, and Catholic friends. (At that time the Middle Eastern population in Nashville was very, very small; it has grown quite a bit since, as well as the Hispanic population.) In our little microcosm of the world, you either liked someone or you didn't, and where they came from or where they worshipped didn't figure into it.

I don't really understand where that changed, or even why. People are people. Why do we insist on dividing ourselves along racial & religious lines?

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: John P
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 12:57 PM

Guest, you wrote: JP:
"JP - . . . Your form of government was based on Indian beliefs, which include a supreme deity are they not?"

Huh? What are you talking about? I don't think I have described my "form of government", whatever that means, or my beliefs, which don't have anything to do with India or a supreme deity. This reads like a complete non-sequiter. Can you explain your point more fully?

And then you wrote: "Guns dont kill people, people kill people (with whatever implents and devices they can) If you attach moral culpability to an inamiate object, you are being irrational as well as arrogant and unpleasant in your arguments. "

I have never ascribed motive or culpability to an inanimate object. In fact, the only people I've ever heard say something like that are pro-gun folks trying to make the anti-gun folks look stupid. What I have said is that the easy availabiltiy of guns makes it a lot easier for people to kill each other. Give me an assailant with a kitchen knife instead of a gun any day. I'll bet I can outrun someone with a knife. I know I can't outrun a bullet. I'm sorry if I have come across as arrogant or unpleasant. That has not been my intention. Can you point to specifics for me?

McGrath of Harlow: Did you really not understand what I was saying when I said there was profanity in the thread title? Why do you retreat to an argument based on a pedantic, leagalistic defining of words, rather than trying to communicate in any real way? If you don't have anything to add to the discussion, perhaps you should stay silent. And, if you want get all dictionary about it, you should read all the definitions listed under "profanity". In my dictionary it says, "(2)Abusive, vulgar, or irreverent language. (2a)The use of such language." You might also note that ljc's use of the word "fuck" has nothing to do with sexual intercourse. Maybe you were just trying to be cute, which I don't have a problem with. If so, you didn't make it obvious enough. If you were seriously trying to shoot down my statement, you failed.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 01:00 PM

Hey Catspaw, how come it took you so long to find a good laugh here?

Rick

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 01:17 PM

"I must have mis-read the thread title"

How can you tell, given that stupid affected accent that LJC insist on posting in...

Comes off as about as dumb as the kids and their T3xT 5p3ak...

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: annamill
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 01:26 PM

I really agree that guns don't kill people, people do. Guns just make it easier for people to kill people.

Bill Kennedy, you have already written all my feelings on Religion and State.

Just my 2cents.

Lousy choice of a thread title too.

Annamill

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:10 PM

I appologise JP.... I dont have time to teach history to you today. I suggest you read about the Iroquois Confederacy and the Constitution of the United States.

"To be ignorant of what happened before you were born is to ever be a child. For what is a man's lifetime unless the memory of past events is woven with those of earlier times" Marcus Tullius Cicero 106-46 BC

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:13 PM

"But that fanaticism would be generated by the church of that person's faith, not by a school that refrained from choosing one faith's god to pray to over another faith's god." (Sharon)

I'd see it more as one of the consequences of intolerance on the part of the people who laughed at someone for saying their prayers. Intolerance generates fanaticism in all kinds of contexts. Sneer at people for being different, and just now and then that's going to push someone over the edge.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:29 PM

Pigs and cows both have four legs, and they get raised on farms and get eaten. But we find it useful to have separate words for them.

So on my understanding, while saying either "fuck-all" and "Jesus weeps" might fall into the category of "bad language", it'd be no more appropriate to call the first expression "profane" than to call the second "obscene".

Of course words change their meaning, and when you try to hold on to a meaning that has gone, that's pedantry. Maybe some day the word profane will have lost all it's associations with "sacred things". Maybe that's already happened, and it hasn't got to me yet.

Either way, it's not something I can imagine getting angry with someone over.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:34 PM

There was little sign of intolerance or fanaticism at the schools I attended. People who were of non Christian religions were excused service/assembly and had rooms they could assemble together temporarily (approx 125 out of a school of 800)or invited to attend without joining in prayers. For the most part Muslims, Jews and a few Communists sat in with their Christian friends, because after the short service there were announcments and other activities that included them. Respect for all was the norm, and racism was simply not tolerated by the staff. Now it seems that a vocal minority are offended by any display of worship. Strange isnt it?

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:54 PM

amazing how much talk a bit of religious right spam can generate

McGrath of Harlow et. al. let's say I just delete that aside about Jimmy's lips moving. It was a cheap shot, and I took it (but it may be true anyway). That is not the gist of my argument or at all my concern.

So many 'urban legend' type stories begin with 'little Jimmy couldn't say his blessing in the cafeteria'. (That's how Rush gets the folks riled up, that's how the Anita Hill thing got twisted by someone who now admits it was all lies.) I'm not from Missouri, but I say 'Show Me' anyway. Let's deal with hard cases, of factual insensitivity, but not made-up 'what ifs?' that generate emotional responses. That's all.

I'm against intolerance in ALL its manifestations, though I wouldn't call kids making fun of someone talking to himself 'intolerance', I'd call it 'kids making fun of someone talking to himself', & no big deal.

As to moral degeneration, everyone should read a little more history, this has never been a 'moral' nation. Statistically, per capita crime is no more rampant or sordid or horrible or unspeakable than it ever was. Old newspapers are full of much the same stuff we see today. There has been no 'backsliding' or turning away from religion. That is a smokescreen, also thought up by the right, to make people who naturally remember 'better days gone by' and naturally for the most part forget the rotten stuff that was going on back then (lynching, etc.), believe that it was a golden age when everyone was in church and right with god, and christians ruled and governed wisely.

It never happened like that.

Today is not that different, EXCEPT,

- and this cannot be controverted by facts, no matter how loudy you feel the need to claim the 2nd amendment -

there are way too many guns, available to way too many people, for no good reason, (except that people who sell guns make money, & people who are afraid stay indoors and watch more tv advertising,) and very often, innocent people get killed by gunfire.

this could spawn many other threads about parenting, rights and responsibilities, violence, mentoring, etc. and it would all be worthwhile, I think, to air our views in a largely positive, public forum like this. You religious people out there, enjoy your right to pray to whatever god you like, the rest of you out there, stand up for your right not to have someone else's beliefs shoved in your face. and everyone work for peace, there are some scary times ahead, i'm afraid.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:55 PM

There was more than a little sign of fanaticism at the schools I attended! I remember that, when I was in junior high school (grades 7-9) from Fall 1968 to Spring 1971, there was a Christian bible-study movement championed by the school-band director that started out as an evening meeting once a week and evolved/devolved into sessions in the band director's office – during school hours – wherein some students performed the "laying on of hands" upon others and were "speaking in tongues". It scared me, but not half as much as it scared my Baptist-style fundamentalist parents!

As far as I know, the guy was never criticized by the school or the school board for his actions. About a year after I left for high school, the junior-high band director left the school to become a Pentecostal minister. But who knows how many kids were drawn into Pentecostalism by his "ministry" and how many were driven away from religion altogether.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: SharonA
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 02:58 PM

...Sometime I'll tell y'all about my high school, and the "New Age" baccalaureate service held my senior year!

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: little john cameron
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:14 PM

fuck-all \'fuk-all\ n - Absence, nothingness, devoid of substance; "It was snowin' so hard ya couldn't see fuck-all." The term "dick-all" is a common, somewhat less pejorative substitute Here is anither ane for Mister Clinton(wan gig)Hammond!!
Fuck-off an gae ower tae Mingalay an' hae ah blether wi' the teuchters.See how lang they pit up wi' yer constant carpin. ljc.

Rick,nae sign o' oor photie yet!! john

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:34 PM

BIOHOP'S ISLANDS, a chain of small islands among the Hebrides, the chief of which are Bernera, Mingalay, and Pabbay. Long. 7. 35. W. Lat. 56. 48. N.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: little john cameron
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:42 PM

Jings ,ta muckle Guest.Ah wid never hae guessed that.ljc

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:46 PM

BLAUSTEIN, Richard (East Tennessee State University) STALKING THE ELUSIVE TEUCHTER JOKE: EXPLORING SCOTTISH INTER-REGIONAL HUMOR. Are teuchters Scotland's hillbillies? Though Scottish inter-regional humor concerning highlanders and Gaelic speakers does exist, teuchters are overshadowed by the residents of Aberdeen, typified as exceedingly canny and thrifty, also overly intimate with sheep. Just as other people tell demeaning jokes about Scottish misers and "sheepshaggers," Scots tell these very same jokes about Aberdonians. The principal numskulls in Scottish humor are not teuchters but the Irish. It is noteworthy that the Irish tell these same jokes about Kerrymen, just as American jokes about hillbillies become West Virginia jokes in Southern Appalachia.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM

So Clinton, it would appear that ljc has clearly and blatantly displayed his credentials of authenticity, in a manner of lifting his kilt for you, cyber-wise.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: little john cameron
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM

Jist make sure ye dinnae tell that tae an Aiberdonian. ljc

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 03:59 PM

He lifted his kilt? That'd be why I didn't see anything...

Nothing there to see...

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:11 PM

I never said Jimmy was prevented from praying in the cafeteria. I said some people misinterpret the law to mean that he should be. There are plenty of people out there who think there is a zero-tolerance policy on any sort of religious expression in a public school, or any public place, for that matter. If you don't believe me, read the news.

Here's what happened to Misty Newberry when she and some friends were caught praying before school

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:27 PM

"Only in America" - or as I sometimes find myslef saying when watching the box "You know, Americans really are different". (Nothing wrong with being different, but the more or less common language sometimes disguises the differences. A bit like a fall of snow that makes all the different surfaces look the same for a bit. Remember that and you are less likely to lose your footing and come a cropper.)

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: little john cameron
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:28 PM

Ach guest he disnae get it!!! ljc

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:39 PM

The American Center for Law & Justice is hardly an unbiased source, I don't believe much of it, BUT, say there is a longstanding prohibition by the Capitol police against public demonstrations within the Capitol building, and they interpret that to mean no praying,

SO WHAT?,

as related, they were not prohibited from praying, just from making a public display that might be offensive to some and disruptive of government business. I don't necessarily agree with the policy, but how much work do you think would get done in Congress if every group that wanted to demonstrate were allowed to do so in the Capitol? Anti-abortionist praying, anti-Gay & Lesbian praying, even as noted anti-Masonic praying! It would never end. How has this minister been harmed except in not being allowed to fulfill his desire to make a spectacle of his faith?

If, in fact, this other Misty girl was indeed maced, handcuffed, etc., then justice prevailed by her being exonerated and compensated. I'd say the school administration erred in that instance, given these facts, but what was the context? was this right after Columbine shootings? or some other 'high alert' period? Was there some other history between this girl and her school? if not, the grandmother just happened to videotape the proceedings? or did she know that this was provocative and bound to cause a ruckus? again, anecdotes are anecdotes, & often colored a particular way, not always reliable. I don't believe everything printed in the Congressional Record, either, from a government that says it lies to its citizens, or maybe they were lying when they said that!

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Kim C
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:51 PM

Sir, you asked for evidence, anecdotal or otherwise. Do with it what you will. I have nothing else to add.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:56 PM

Thanks McGrath. So what's Bill Sables then?

Re: the subject of religion in the schools... I was harassed on a regular basis in grade school by the children who belonged to the majority religion for not belonging to their religion. I was told repeatedly that I was going to go to hell. It certainly does happen.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 04:57 PM

Madam, Do you think a group that is testifying in support of a constitutional amendment for 'Freedom of Religious Expression' is to be taken without question?

Yes, I thank you for your 3rd hand anecdotes, but not without some discussion of them. Now how about hearing from someone who has themself been discriminated against for praying in public?

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: DonD
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 05:06 PM

I just devoured the whole thread in on huge gulp, and like a shmorgasbord, it had some nice delicacies and some items to make you puke. What amazed me in the long discussion of prayer in schools on the one hand, and of guns on the other, is that I'm the first one to relate both to the Taliban. I'm sure you all know that 'Taliban' means students, and that the government of Afghanistan rose from the religious schools in Pakistan, where no one learned anything except how to pray, and perhaps how to shootan AK-47! As an atheistic anti-gun partisan myself, I can sometimes understand some NRA points and their gun safety programs -- BUT how in the world can anyone justify their indicrimainate defense of the right to bear arms that include assault rifles, anti-tank rockets, and probably intercontinental ballisric missiles. How big a paper target do you need for those 'sporting' weapons?

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 05:11 PM

I am usually pretty tolerant, even of oxymorons, but I can't stand bigots, which, it goes without saying, no Mudcatters are. My understanding (although I come from south of Watford and don't count) is that:-

The bit of Yorkshire that sounds a bit Geordie is Teesside, where the Wilson family and Vin Garbutt come from. It's the part of the world where railways were born and Stephenson ran the Rocket from Stockton to Darlington. It's now promoting itself as Tees Valley, which includes Darlington, which used to be in County Durham (where Jez Lowe comes from), the Land of the Prince Bishops.

Geordies come from North of the Tyne (at least Anni Fentiman who comes from Gateshead, south of the Tyne, says she's not a true Geordie. Neither Tyneside nor Wearside (Sunderland) is in Yorkshire.

The UK of course has an established Church (but only because Henry VIII wanted to divorce Catherine of Aragon, and had to become the Defender of the Faith and break from Rome to do so)and there are interesting debates going on as to whether discrimination on the grounds of religion should be prohibited as well as gender and race. There's also a fairly big row going on at the moment because a highly rated faith-based school in the North East (Emmanuel - I think it might even be in Gateshead) has been teaching Creationism, and our eminent scientists have been going spare and saying this should only be part of the bible teaching not the science course. A friend of mine, who teaches psychology, and is a churchgoer, moved to Canada (Monckton) and found that she was being denounced from the pulpit for being an evolutionist.

There's also an argument going on about whether our Government should fund Muslim schools which educate girls differently and to a lower academic standard than State schools.

But nobody ever argues that children in English schools should be taught English folk music. Or morris dancing.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 05:22 PM

I think that might be the death-knell, Kitty. What we need is an attempt to ban it, to give the music and the dancing more street-cred.

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 05:26 PM

Amendment 2

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Does the amendment imply that the right to bear arms is directly related to participation in "militias"? Are "militias" still in existence in America, or have they been modified into formal branches of the Military, such as the National Guard? How would you define "arms" ? Muskets and smoothbore cannon? or M16s, armor-piercing shells, hand grenades, and rocket launchers? Its pretty certain that the Founding Fathers couldn't have envisioned laying groundwork for the right of each citizen to possess a rocket launcher, but doesn't it come under the general heading of "arms"? Would you prohibit rocket launchers and hand grenades, but allow handguns and semi-automatic rifles?

Those who stand by the literal interpretation of the amendment prefer to ignore questions like these, and see every gun law as a violation of the "infringement" clause. Its a wonderful, clear statement of their position, and establishes an entrenched, beseiged mindset that polarizes the argument, rejecting rational compromises.

And someone who sees no difference in the lethal potential between a machine-pistol and a sharp stick in the hands of someone with intent to kill, has built an amazingly impenetrable wall between their mouth and their common sense. I don't deny that our society has problems with the breakdown of morality and the glorification of violence, but until the proliferation and ready availability of powerful firearms is controlled in some rational way, a great portion of the problem remains unsolved.

Item : the individuals who purchased the weapons and then handed them over to the under-aged Harris and Klebold were recently found innocent of any wrongdoing. Two final questions come to mind. 1) Is this an example of the efficiency of our existing gun laws? and 2) What are the bets that the two individuals involved had legal defense funded by the NRA?

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 06:15 PM

Oh, alright McGrath - it was pointed out in the Radio 3 Music Matters discussion on Sunday, with Billy Bragg, Martin Carthy and Alan Howkins, that the presentation of English folk song in the school curriculum hadn't enhanced its street cred or any other sort of cred.

Gun control in the UK has generally been tighter than in many other countries and got tightened after the Thomas Hamilton Dunblane massacre. Gun-related crime in England seems mostly to be linked with the illegal drugs scene. The worst incident I can think of so far this year is the girl who was shot for her mobile phone. The other nasty recent development is people being attacked by car thieves on steal-to-order jobs.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Fuck-All tae dae wi' music ljc
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 27 Mar 02 - 06:42 PM

I had to skim here...this thread is cumbersome indeed, so I apologize if this is redundant.

The law *should* protect a childs right to *choose* to pray here in the US. But the sad fact is that more and more people are getting the "Separation of Church and State" thing confused. It was intended to keep the state out of religion, not the other way around.

In any case, the law should protect a child's right to pray. However, there has been case after case where Valedictorians wanted to mention their faith, or pray during their commencement speach and were told they could not. Case after case of a child choosing Jesus as his "hero" for an essay, and being told he or she could not. Many of these have gone to trial *after* said event could occur, effectively blocking the child from exercising his or her (supposedly) constitutional rights.

There should not be a state mandated religion...but to banish all religion from schools is not only wrong, it's against the very reason this country was founded. Freedom of religion. The founders of this country never intoned "except in school".

Here's a link for more information: http://www2.oneplace.com/Ministries/Jay_Sekulow_Live/