BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,ToryBoy
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:16 AM

Don T
Sorry mate if you don't understand that W's foreign policy is about democracy.


But that reminds me I have forgotten my manners.
I have to say a big thank you to all the lefties who were anti-war and loved saddam and who voted LD or something else and ensured that the pro-war Conservative party gained 54 seats!
I love that!
Not only that, labouring party are left with a load of marginals. They will topple next time for sure.

Yes Ted, un-ban hunting (though we can all ignore the law anyway as no-one bothers about it).

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,john
Date: 11 May 05 - 11:45 AM

Interesting fact=
In England more people voted for Conservative than for Labour.
Conservative=37%
Labour      =36%
result =Labour Win!


The tories were robbed, its like a football match-
Arsenal-5 Manchester-4 and Manchester been declared the winners.

I voted Conservative, I had Conservative posters in my windows, though I didn't see any other houses with Conservative posters up in Hull.
I usually vote Labour, but Tony Blair is a lying sack of shit, and I can't stand him, George Galloways speech was brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: DougR
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:38 PM

McGrath: I agree that Tony Blair will be in the history books but for an entirely different reason than you probably think. He will be in the history books BECAUSE he, along with Bush and the other coalition forces overthrew two despotic regimes and helped to bring democracy to that region.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:39 PM

Back in the real world 71 Iraqis were killed today (wednesday) and Mr Blair was given a standing ovation by a meeting of the parliamentary Labour Party.

There are on this forum people of the left, I am one of them, but I will never understand any who support those who knowingly took this country to war under false pretenses.

If we support this action, our socialist principles have gone, and Im afraid that I feel those principles were not there to begin with in the case of many Mudcatters.
Apparently those MPs who protested at todays meeting were shouted down by the Blair loyalists.

Isnt "Democracy" wonderful.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Ramblingsid
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:50 PM

Ignore the law Tory Boy? What a disgrace! How are the conservatives to reclaim their place as the party of law and order if they fail to obey the law- to the letter!!

Could it be that tories are hypocrites?

George Galloway's speech was a disgrace. The man is a ranting demagogue and the sooner we are all rid of him the better. Quite happy to shake the tyrant's hand. Another cup of tea Mr Galloway why thank you Mr Saddam and Happy christmas Mr Aziz. Well at least the SWP has an MP - of course it could only get an MP elected by them pretending not to be the SWP.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 11 May 05 - 02:52 PM

Tory Boy,

I'm sorry that YOU don't understand that Dubya's policies are all about control, and oil. He can't even manage to run a democracy in his own country.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 May 05 - 03:15 PM

"Out of Europe"
Uh, why? What's wrong with Europe? They have nice cheeses. And i'm sure you'd still be allowed the odd union jack toting drunken football hooligan :)

"Low taxes"
I agree, totally. Why have taxes at all, when we can visit the little public services fairy who lives under the bramblebush?

"Controlled immigration"
Certainly, we wouldn't want anyone bringing any skills into the country... unless of course they're white. In that case, fine!

"Support USA foreign policy"
What, unconditionally? Fantastic! I'll go grab my gun and lets shoot some infidels!

"Proper Grammar schools"
I suppose you're right here....there's no point improving the education system as a whole. It's only the little rich boys who are gpoing to get the decent jobs anyway, after all...

"End welfare scrounging"
Indeed. I, for one, want to know that absolutely none of my money ever goes towards helping someone worse off than myself!


Good Lord, i think i'm a Tory...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 11 May 05 - 03:29 PM

Great post BI.

Fancy a golfing weekend at Gleneagles?

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 11 May 05 - 03:54 PM

Hi ya Tory boy, your absolutely right, the points you make do make sense, only you wont put them across with an eltist attitude. of course we should not be a part of europe, we are in a unique position, we are the U.S.A's european ally, that is the way it should remain, this doesnt mean that we shouldnt trade with europe to the benefit of the people of this nation. there are many wealthy nations that need our services, lets not neglect them.
As for low taxes, of course anyone can see that we are taxed too highly, Labour conned it's way into power on a manifesto that it would not increas income tax but would increase spending by slashing beauracracy, it has not done this, but has increased the tax burden to hard working decent families.if the tory party truly follows this line, taxes will fall, if we stop being petrified by the dreaded words "PRIVATE HEALTH CARE", and realise that the rest of europe uses both private and public, and laugh at our system, taxes will be falling, everyone from the richest to the poorest will get the same healthcare.

Controlled immigration, your right again, lets process people quickly, lets set a policy that provides emergency accomodation within a controlled environment. that then gives people private accomodation, paid for 6 weeks with a job in the area, then you on your own as a tax payer in the system,,,, just watch the immigration problem stop.

Support USA foreign policy, O,K should we suppport a policy blindly, are we not worthy of voicing an opinion in the wider world, while i agree the U.S is a power for the general good of the world, it doesnt mean that they are always right. why can we not be a friend who just puts the voice of reason to good friend,,,, it's always wise to take a mate with you when you buy a car. it stops the wow factor.

Proper Grammar schools, again your right, academic excellence should be properly directed, but with that in mind, should we not give trades the same respect, it takes 5 years to train to become a doctor, it takes a lifetime to become a proper joiner. everyone has their worth. if we carry on with the view that you can only achieve anything if you go to university, we will carry on kidding ourselves that our politicians will make a change.

End welfare scrounging, this is a massive problem, it is seeded in the depths of desperation. when you need to earn 36 grand a year to break even, and you can only earn 15 grand, what do you do, this is a problem that can only be adressed by pushing people to achieve self ambition, get people out of the poverty trap by giving support to start own businesses, lets drop the level of lower income tax, if you take a part time job, why should you pay extra income tax. lets not tax overtime to a certain amount.... all these things will push people to achieve a standard of living. life is only worth living if your living it to your full potential, although, a ford focus on the drive bought and paid for, when you have come from a deprived background, is worth much more than 20 rolls royces when you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth... this is a long term problem that starts with school, what we need to do is stop being wooly liberalist and address these problems.

O.K Tory boy, we think on the same wavelength, the Tory party must unite and put forward coherent policies, if it is clever enough it will see that it can steal left ground that appeals to everyone, and put them forward with a Conservative agenda.... but lets not look to the marginals, when Sunderland returns a Conservative M.P, we know we have won........heart and soul.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 11 May 05 - 04:14 PM

I really am gonna have to become a member.... this soooooooo addictive.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: akenaton
Date: 11 May 05 - 04:33 PM

OH fuck!!!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: DougR
Date: 11 May 05 - 06:00 PM

akenaton:has it ever occured to you that the continued failure of socialists to have their way might be ...because it is a failed philosophy? I didn't think so.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:32 PM

Akenaton...i would, but i can't afford it, me being a communist and all. A communist- one who has nothing, and wants to share it with you.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:36 PM

"akenaton:has it ever occured to you that the continued failure of socialists to have their way might be ...because it is a failed philosophy? I didn't think so"

And have you ever considered that the continued failures of both capatalism and socialism might be due to that most disgusting part of human nature, the desire for ultimate power?

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST
Date: 11 May 05 - 10:40 PM

BINGO!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 May 05 - 11:01 PM

Bingo? Full fucking house, mate...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,ToryBoy
Date: 11 May 05 - 11:13 PM

Thank you Stevie D, with you on most of that.

On "elitism" though, I believe that some people have indeed had it better than others and that's just tough, life's like that, we can't all be equals.

However for our leftie friends, a few thoughts on how to reduce the tax burden.
Reintroduce secondary modern schools and reduce the compulsory leaving age to 15. Sec Mod kids, who just cause havoc in schools anyway, can learn a trade and leave at 15 to work on building sites etc.
With money saved on education, reduce income tax.


There are far too many new hospitals being built. Transfer their ownership to the private sector. With money saved that Blair spends on running new hospitals, reduce income tax.

With reductions on income tax comes choice.

Many people will choose to educate their children in the independent sector therefore less money needed for state schools, then more income tax reductions possible.

Many people will choose private health insurance and thus less money needed for the NHS. Reduce income tax.

All that is required is a relentless assault on public spending and a redistribution of the money saved into the pockets of joe public.

Life will be transformed. Now we need a decent leader with the will to push forward and not get embroiled in nannying people who just want to scrounge off the state - leave these to labouring party!

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 11 May 05 - 11:32 PM

Many people will do this, many people will do that....many people will not. Rich people will, and sorry mate, but they're in a minority. That's why they're rich. I suggest you take a good look at your own education, especially at those parts of history you seem to have skipped. You know, the ones that prove how repression leads to unrest...how inequality leads to crime...how discrimination starts running under it's own momentum and conquers a whole nation....

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,11 May 05 - 10:40 PM
Date: 12 May 05 - 12:11 AM

Time for a bit of Cohen, perhaps...

Everybody knows that the dice are loaded
Everybody rolls with their fingers crossed
Everybody knows that the war is over
Everybody knows the good guys lost
Everybody knows the fight was fixed
The poor stay poor, the rich get rich
That's how it goes
Everybody knows

Everybody knows that the boat is leaking
Everybody knows that the captain lied
Everybody got this broken feeling
Like their father or their dog just died

Everybody talking to their pockets
Everybody wants a box of chocolates
And a long stem rose
Everybody knows

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,ToryBoy
Date: 12 May 05 - 01:19 AM

Bliss



"unrest" "crime".....

ahem, I think the answer is more police and better policing.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 12 May 05 - 01:52 AM

Ahem, i think the answer is to remove the need for crime. Prevention being better than cure, and all that...

You should study the political system and crime statistics in Sweden, for example. More egalitarian society....and, surprise surprise, less crime.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 12 May 05 - 02:46 AM

if you look at the majority of street crime in any country, you'll see a pattern emerging, most street crime is done by teenage/early 20's. most criminals are male, most criminals come from broken homes. Most of these criminals have never had a father.
When i was a kid, i lived on a housing estate, we were'nt wealthy. but everyone in the street was in the same boat, Mum looked after us during the day, Dad went to work, when he got home Mum would go out cleaning. We didnt have a car, so on shopping days we all had to go, because we had to carry bags. the rules werent strict, but there was rules. This was the way everyone lived.
If you now look at the way people live these days it's very different. These kids arent bad kids, theyre crying for attention. but thats not to say we should be soft on them. society cant be all carrot or all stick, it has to be a mixture of both, send these kids to young offenders institutions, 6 weeks punishment breaking rocks, working chain gangs etc, then onto rehabilitation, show them what they can achieve, help them get qualifications, assist them to get jobs, make them believe their own worth. it will be a lot cheaper in the long run. the system has to take the role of the father when the father fails to do his job. and you dont have to be rich to love your children, you just have to be together.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 12 May 05 - 02:57 AM

Oh yes, we all need a good strong male influence in early childhood, and regular beatings, of course. All these single mothers are just absolutely useless, eh? The youth of today...i just don't know what the worlds' coming to...

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 12 May 05 - 03:17 AM

Hi B,I,,,,,,When did i say that kids needed to be beaten, when did i say single mothers were useless, when did i say the youth of today were any worse than yesterday's, it might surprise you to know that most fathers are kind caring and supportive, some are useless, i would never take a swipe at single mothers, it must be a hell of a life without the support of a partner.... it seems you are unable to digest anything other than your own view of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 12 May 05 - 04:07 AM

Socialism = Getting someone else to pay for you.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 12 May 05 - 04:09 AM

Chill out, i'm only messin:) Sorry if i caused any offence:)

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Stevie D
Date: 12 May 05 - 05:07 AM

Thats O.K, no offence caused, i'm just really gettin into this mudcat thing. Great to hear all the opinions though.

Remember. Opinions are like belly buttons, everyones got one, none of them hold much water.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 12 May 05 - 05:48 AM

Lol! Bellybuttons indeed :)

As a matter of fact i do think a lot of kids aren't getting enough....well, i hate the word discipline, but you know what i mean! People need to be taught to take responsibility for their actions, is all...having said that, i think if it were more of a level playing field to begin with, crime (especially property related crime, like theft) would be less attractive.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 May 05 - 06:31 AM

Opinions like bellybuttons...........Like it Stevie D, and I think that belongs on the Mudcat quotes thread.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,Tory Boy
Date: 13 May 05 - 01:19 AM

labouring party are dangerous because they harbour in their midst revolutionaries who seek nothing less than the overthrow of all the political systems in the country.
To achieve this they must cause unrest, just some examples:-
- inside trades unions by strikes and disruption.
- by rioting in anti-globalisation demo's.
- protesting against justified wars.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 May 05 - 04:56 AM

My early days were very much like yours, Stevie. I agree wholeheartedly with the premise that we need that combination of punishment/encouragement. What I find it doesn't address is the yobs who DO have a male presense and that the role model created by that male presense is exactly the boorish behavior that the offspring inherits:-(

You see it all the time, unfortunately. We even had a neighbor who threatened his sons teachers with violence because they punished the son! What kind of adult is that kid going to grow up into when he sees his Dad using violence as an answer for everything? In my day, and I suspect yours, If I got home from school and said the teachers had punished me for wrongdoing I would get it in the ear from my Dad as well!

Eeeeeh - Them were the days;-) To bring a little folkiness into it I love the song with the chorus -

When I were a lad, things they were bad
But they weren't half as bad as whn my Dad were a lad
And when my Dad were a lad, things weren't half as bad#
As when my Dad's dad was a lad...

Perhaps in forty years time the yob in the baseball cap who just put a litter bin through the bus shelter window will look back on how well behaved he was:-)

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 13 May 05 - 12:06 PM

Wonderfully comic stuff again from Tory Boy.

Hopefully, his particular brand of narrow-minded bigotry will continue to prevail amongst his 18th Century Tory think-tanksters and thus give this Government the chance to re-assemble a decent society after the pitifully devisive administrations that were the trademark of the ghosts of Tory past.

The dreary mantra of "Reduce Income Tax" worked well for them and their kind of course - manifesting itself in a reverse Robin Hood strategy of robbing the poor and giving to the rich. Worked well for a while - until middle England got wise to the damage it was doing.

Keep up the good work TB - your brainless brand of politics will help to keep the Tory party in it's harmless minority for at least another 10 years or so, which gives the "dangerous labouring party" the 18 years it deserves to balance up the 18 years of shameless gunk that was supposed to pass as Government policy.

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 13 May 05 - 02:30 PM

"labouring party are dangerous because they harbour in their midst revolutionaries who seek nothing less than the overthrow of all the political systems in the country."

No, they don't. If they did, i would have voted for them...:)

Subject: RE: BS: MARGINALS: We're winning (UK)
From: GUEST,doggerel dave
Date: 13 May 05 - 11:05 PM

Blissfully Ignorant - so well-named
Though I love your bleeeding heart
Tell me were you named and shamed
Or do you look the part?