BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?

Subject: More Fall Guys?
From: robomatic
Date: 07 Sep 09 - 09:09 PM

Three Found Guilty


I heard a blurb on NPR that Gordon Brown's government was facing great criticism at home over the release of the convicted Lockerbie bomber. I was wondering if the prevalent opinion in favor of 'compassion' was representative or not. Meanwhile, a second trial has found three guilty of planning mass destruction of aircraft in the case that three years ago resulted in many of use who fly having to do without our liquids.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: GUEST,Allan Connochie
Date: 08 Sep 09 - 02:41 AM

"Gordon Brown's govt was facing great criticism at home over the release of the convicted Lockerbie bomber"

The release fell into the lap of the UK government and though they almost certainly wanted it they had no control over it. The UK and Libyan governments wanted a prisoner release programme which was to include the bomber but the Scottish government was against the inclusion of the bomber in any prisoner releases, which put a dampener on it as the Scottish minister had jurisdiction not the minister at UK level. With the advent and worsening of the cancer then under Scots Law the bomber became eligible for release on compassionate grounds. Previously once it was shown someone qualified and the relevant agencies agreed no Scottish Secretary has ever refused a release - though MacAskill could have made a precedent because of the scale of the crime. The idea being thrown about that the Nationalist administration in Edinburgh would covertly aid the Labour administration in Westminster is more than a little unlikely. MacAskill is a lawyer and whether right or wrong he used due process. Brown seemed to have got what he wanted without involvement but of course it doesn't work like that. His refusing to comment and refusal to admit mechanisations at UK level doesn't sit well and makes Labour look ridiculous especially as they were, apart from one individual, condemning the release in the Scottish parliament.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 05:20 AM

Seven months later, Gadaffi's son says Megrahi is better than ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Jul 10 - 07:57 AM

The Lockerbie bomber could survive for 10 years or longer, according to a cancer specialist who last year said he would be dead within three months of his release.
No link. Sorry.
Google, telegraph lockerbie

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 11:40 AM

Three "Specialists" gave this wasted-ass piece of crap three months to live.....and a year later he's going strong and seemingly getting stronger! And now the BP connection has resurfaced. Both the excerpts below are from the Telegraph website.
Italics mine.

BP is facing fresh scrutiny into whether it was involved in the release of the Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmet al-Megrahi, after the oil giant admitted lobbying the British government over a prisoner agreement with Libya. BP admits 'lobbying UK over Libya prisoner transfer scheme but not Lockerbie bomber

AND THIS:

Lockerbie bomber Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed al-Megrahi "should have died in jail", David Cameron said as he sought to calm renewed criticism in the United States of his release amid fresh questions over the role played by BP.


Right........and good ol' BP was just protecting their right to drill and make shitloads of money. Gimmee a fuckin' break.........

I agreed with Sinsull from the outset of this thread that there was more to this than met the eye and now a monstrous shit pie has just been thrown in our face by the same wonderful company hell bent on destroying the Gulf of Mexico.

Humanitarian compassion my ass......BIg oil making money.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 12:55 PM

Spaw and Sinsull, I normally agree with just about everything you post here; but get your facts straight folks; BP did indeed lobby over the prisoner transfer agreement. Megrahi's release was not part of that agreement, as it fell within the jurisdiction of a different Parliament, i.e. The Scottish Parliament, who everyone agrees were NOT lobbied by BP. Besides; as Americans, what the fuck does it have to do with you? Would you let us Brits decide what happens to the 911 perpetrators, if you ever get round to catching them? More Brits died on 911 than Americans died at Lockerbie, remember, and our soldiers are still dying fighting your pointless oil war for you. I'm getting really tired of my country being regarded as some kind of annexe of the USA, and I'm starting to understand why the Arab world is so pissed off with American policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: catspaw49
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:39 PM

First Tim, I would be all for a "World Oragnization" of some sort being involved in the trials and decisions....or at least a system where countries directly involved have a say in matters such as this.

To me and probably to most Americans, the BP lobbying was suspect regardless. That's a mighty fine hair to split. Part of that distrust comes from the fact that most Americans are fed-up and distrustful of lobbyists for big oil (and a lot of other things) to begin with. No effect? Kinda' hard to believe for me.....but that's just my opinion.

I too find the "war" a pointless effort and I'm not alone in my non-support. I know that the feelings are pretty strong over your way and the best any of us can do is to continue to voice our opinions in any way we can. It doesn't always work even when you think it might. I think this country needs a revolution as our party system has worn itself out. Politics is a matter of methodology and the established method will override the occupants of the offices we elect.

Obama was heralded as "change." It hasn't changed and in my heart I knew it wasn't going to change.....its business as usual. No real movement forward on race or poverty or the economy and we're still fighting a pointless war. I would say to your point about the "annexe"......you have a similar problem.   Change isn't happening because our admin still treats YOU as such and your current admin still acts as such.

William Sloane Coffin said that to be a patriot is to have a lover's quarel with your country and I agree. Most times I love what this country could be and most times I hate what it is.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 01:49 PM

Two threads on this - here's what I posted on the other one:

The case against Megrahi was pretty suspect anyway. His release was a way of stopping an appeals process which could very well have overthrown that conviction and opened a can of worms.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 02:29 PM

BP has behaved very much like a nation unto themselves. In fact their behavior is much more benign if compared to actions by the United States military and decisions made by our Commander and Chief.
Reagan traded arms for hostages. Johnson supported spraying permanent mutagen poison on Viet Nam. Clinton spewed depleted Uranium oover Bosnia and both Bushs did so even more in Iraq.

Perhaps you don't like trans national corporations to behave like nations but you must have noticed their hiring of armies in numerous proxy wars in Africa and Asia.

As corporations they have no soul to damn and no body to kick but they do have a lifeblood of cash that can be made to bleed.
If you want to fight what a corporation does you can be killed as hundred in Bolivia were shot when Bectel privatized the water supply and made water unaffordable. It was a full fledged war and people died as a result. Corporations are as immortal as nations and will return to ravage each generation for profits that are often unbound by ethics, religion or law.

A less violent rebellion against evil corporate actions is the boycott. The lawsuit is another means that seldom works since time and money are on the side of corporations. Goverment regulations may establish law but then you need to police corporations to inforce the law which is most difficult.

The easiest thing to do is vote for candidates who are for consumer rights.

Foreign owned Fox news and business channels are on the side of corporations about 95% of the time and give a very emotional fear charged view of issues involving Enron heros and Wall Street genius'.

One thing that I have never seen in the Western World is a declaration of war against a corporation. Just look at the investment portfolio of any of the members of the foreign relations committee or the tri lateral commission. Look at the portfolio of the judge who overturned the US government request to cease only the deep water drilling that can't be reached by human hands.
Nope you can't commit war against a corporation yet they commit wars and unilateral decisions that kill, maim and bankrupt private individuals every day.

Free market you say? Look at the result of their free for all.
BP is a bit worse than most too big to fail corporations that routinely lie cheat steal and distort of a buck. They say Obama's government is out of touch. I say you need only take one look and listen to Tony Hayward to see who is out of touch.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 04:34 PM

Spaw; that's why I normally agree with just about everything you say on here; great reply to an overreacting and angry poster like me. I love it when you do 'voice of sweet reason', and please don't take my anger personally; that's not how it was meant, and never will be. I think my quarrel is exactly as you suggest; with my own government for their supine and feckless acceptance of interference in sovereign matters.
Tim

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 05:30 PM

Don't forget that our PM said, we are the junior party!

Fucking Etonian eedjit!

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: mousethief
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 05:54 PM

Besides; as Americans, what the fuck does it have to do with you?

Americans were killed on that flight. Ergo, it has to do with America.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 06:12 PM

The case against this bloke was remarkably thin, but no one in the USA seems to belive this read this

Many people who have looked into this seem to believe that Iran had a greater motive for destroying an American 'plane, in revenge for the Iran airliner destroyed (by a tragic mistake) by USS Vincennes in 1988.

My heart goes out to the families and friends of all the people who were killed by this useless sabre-rattling.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: mandotim
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 02:07 AM

More British people were killed in 9/11. How would Americans react if we started telling you how to run your justice system and hauling your President in front of our legislators to explain himself?

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 03:12 PM

More British people were killed in 9/11. How would Americans react if we started telling you how to run your justice system and hauling your President in front of our legislators to explain himself?

Has somebody hauled your PM in front of our legislators? Since our legislature has no subpoena power over foreign heads of government, if s/he stood before them, it had to have been voluntarily.

Maybe you're not familiar with it in Blighty but in America we have this thing called "freedom of speech." Meaning people can complain about Scottish justice all they want. You guys might want to look it up; it might be worth trying, if you can stomach it.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 04:05 PM

Maybe if the captain of USS Vincennes had been put on trial the Lockerbie atrocity might never have happened.

Instead he was given the Legion of Merit decoration "for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service as commanding officer ... from April 1987 to May 1989" - the period during which the Iranian Airbus 655 was shot down, with 290 civilian passengers killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 04:25 PM

RANT ON:

Maybe we can all shut the fuck up and quit using any tragedy which comes along to bring out the worst in each society; a tit-for-tat response gets so tedious and plays into the hands of those who love to divide, demoralize, and conquer in subtle and not so subtle ways. Yeah, I know we have our differences, it'd be damn boring if we didn't, BUT that does not mean we cannot join together to make the world a better place, starting right here in our own collective *home*, eh?

How far back do you want to go? I am sure we could dredge up stuff from a lot farther back than 1988...maybe we could work it up into an all out pissing contest as they've been having for thousands of years in the middle east? Your king probably ordered the hanging of one of my ancestors...how 'bout we start there? Sheesh!

Rant OFF

kathotandtiredofMudcatspats

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: mandotim
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 03:40 AM

Mousethief; I think Spaw was right; my quarrel is not with the US legislators, they have every right to ask for Cameron to meet them, although given the current world view of your country, this can easily be misconstrued as arrogance. My quarrel is with the craven lickspittle who agreed to meet, instead of politely saying 'mind your own business, this is a sovereign matter'. I was merely trying to point out the reverse situation; I can't see a US President agreeing to such a thing, can you? As far as freedom of speech goes, I'm not sure the USA has much to crow about. Remember the Dixie Chicks? Further back, McCarthy? True freedom of speech is an illusion in most societies, including the UK, and is generally the preserve of those who can afford expensive lawyers. I suspect it's going to become much more illusory over here with this bunch in charge.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: robomatic
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 07:43 PM

Well, the forces of enforced forgiveness have been able to justify a convicted terrorist returned to his loved ones, for what appear to be inaccurate, if not fabricated, justifications.

They should get on to the case of Nezar Hindawi who was incarcerated in 1988 for sending his Irish Catholic girlfriend onto an El Al flight with his baby in her belly and his semtex in her handbag. Questioning by the Israelis brought the truth to light and led to the capture of Hindawi.

He's already been up for parole but for some insane reason the forces of forgiveness were not strong enough. . .

They can find that strength in this thread which is bound to find that Hindawi and his familty (the ones he didn't try to kill) have suffered enough.

Oh the humanity!

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: mousethief
Date: 24 Jul 10 - 07:59 PM

I'm not sure the USA has much to crow about. Remember the Dixie Chicks? Further back, McCarthy?

Freedom of speech really has to do with the government, so the Dixie Chicks really don't signify. Consumers are of course allowed to boycott anyone or anything they please based on things said; the DC were unfortunate (or remiss) in that their fan base was way way to their right. Of course their fan base had bought into the Bush lies that criticizing the president was the same as criticizing the country. The same people have conveniently forgotten they ever believed that now that a Democrat is in the White House; they will suddenly remember it next time a Republican president is elected.

McCarthy was an aberration, although chillingly the Republicans look like they want to go back in that direction. They had one or two nutcases (whom the sheeple nevertheless elected) who have said things about "unamerican" this or that. I fear for people of my political beliefs if the Rethugs ever regain both chambers of Congress and the presidency. The Patriot Act will look like a bill of rights.

I understand the accusation of arrogance. US officialdom really has a bad case of it, and nobody more than Congress. And I agree an American president would probably not have done the same under analogous circumstances. Nor should Cameron have.

Subject: BS: Cardinal comments on Lockerbie bomber reaction
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 06:43 AM

It's not very often I approve of what comes out of religious leaders mouths (not being religious myself), but for once, I found myself agreeing with this gentleman.

Here is the link to the article


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-10905562

Subject: RE: BS: CardinalO'Brien on US Lockerbie reaction
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 06:49 AM

I agree too. It also sits ill with me, that this witch hunt by these US senators is in the furtherance of their political carreers, and has nothing to do with morality. Rather the reverse in fact.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 05:24 PM

Well that seems to have buried Arthur's thread quite successfully

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 05:39 PM

Well, John... it's just so inane and arrogant of the US politicians to even dream up such crap, let alone grandstand about it. I suspect Yanks whose reps are involved with this shite are rather pissed about them spending their tax money like uneducated boobs rather than attending to business that matters and that they could actually "do" something about. Twits.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 05:49 PM

Indeed John.

I didn't want it included on this thread. I wanted to discuss what the Cardinal had to say about America and although related to Lockerbie, it really has other implications, about how the rest of the world see the Yanks.

I will not be discussing any further on this thread. Thanks a lot Mudcat elfs. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 07:38 PM

A comment by Alex Salmon, the Scottish First Minister, is perhaps relevant in the context of the concerns raised by those complaining that al Megrahi has lived longer than predicted at the time of his release:

"I'm not a doctor, but I think it's entirely possible that life expectancy in Greenock (Prison)is somewhat shorter than someone's life expectancy on progressive drugs and treatment in Tripoli."

The average age for men who die of natural causes while in prison in the UK is 56.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 09:28 AM

Yes well, I could see the difference in aspect, from this largely redundant thread, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Aug 10 - 09:34 AM

Eh?
Are yo' lot communicating by ESP or summat. None of the above makes any sense at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 09:31 AM

Well here we are two years later and the fucker is still alive but supposedly on life support. We are now asked to feel pity for him as someone has stolen his meds in the classy and lavish secured home where he lives.

Ya' know, to be absolutely truthful, it would be impossible for me to feel pity for this guy if Lorena Bobbitt showed up and chopped off his dick.


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:06 AM

If he's guilty... That is a very big if, and some of those who think he wasn't include parents of victims of the bombing.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 10:21 AM

If you recall this thread Mac, I felt then that something was missing in this whole thing but at this juncture, I've lost all ability to give even one shit, let alone two..............


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 09:45 PM

They've found him at home, in a coma most of the time. I think he's about to face his maker.
Robyn

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 09:47 PM

Sounds good.

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 07:35 AM

I don't recall anyone "asking to fell pity for him" but the current report concludes that he's not long for this world. He did get an extra two or three years of "quality time" with his family and I suppose that is good reason for resentment. But he was dying on pancreatic cancer, no bed of roses.

I'm assuming he at least knew who gave the orders.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 08:53 AM

You missed the news report where his son whined about the meds with that "pity poor us" voice..............and yeah, I'd bet the farm this guy knew the details.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Lockerbie bombing fall-guy to go free?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 10:19 AM

Megrahi is innocent. All the evidence you need is out there. Yanks all over the crash scene within hours, degrading the evidence. Gauchi, the only real witness of substance, the Maltese shopkeeper bought by the yanks for two million dollars, his "testimony" inconsistent and all over the place. Libya admitting to the bombing just to get sanctions lifted. The real tragedy is that the real killers are still out there and that justice has not been done. Not to speak of one of the most egregious miscarriages of justice in modern times.

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/christine-grahame-almegrahi-is-home-and-he-is-innocent-1776188.html


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/18/lockerbie-bomber-megrahi-libyan-conflict