BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: el ted
Date: 19 May 04 - 06:38 AM

post no 100. I thank you. My work here is done.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Green Man
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:30 AM

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

I ain't suffering at all!

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: s6k
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:46 AM

ted you bloody idiot you got post 101, or 102. I GOT 100. jeez are you losing your mind in your old age or what!

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 May 04 - 12:09 PM

s6k - it doesn't count if you post twice to get 100.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: s6k
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:17 PM

oh my god. i will fight this rule to the death!

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 May 04 - 01:27 PM

It's more powerful than a rule - it's a common assumption.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Two_bears
Date: 19 May 04 - 03:28 PM

You have an incorrect quote. The original is " Thou shall not suffer a poisoner to live." Check the Hebrew

You are ABSOLUTELY correct Bruce. The verse "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" does not talk about witches at all. It was about people that poisoined wells.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 May 04 - 05:46 PM

And the old testament has all sorts of "witchery" going on.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Pogo
Date: 19 May 04 - 07:27 PM

[drawl] H'lo Blackcatter-piggle, yep still in th' swamp. An' wouldn't have it no other way. Places like Detroit or Fort Mudge is too high on th' high and lootin' with th' falootin' for a simple 'possum like me.

Hm all very interestin'. You learn somethin' new everyday.

Well, bottom-line I reckon my christianin' suits me fine an' I reckon your paganin' suits you fine :) Seely Vee as they say in Canada.[/drawl]

Now I think I shall go frighten some Jehovah Witnesses by telling them I'm Mormon. We have horns growing out of our head and we eat small children you know ;O) only with cocoa instead of coffee.

muwhahha...take care all!

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 May 04 - 10:21 PM

Well, if you ever feel like coming out of the swwamp and drying off - come on down to Orlando and say "hey."

I get along with many Christians just fine. Many mainstream Christians are pretty laid back about religion and are more accepting than their religious leaders would like. It's called living in the real world. People work in offices with people who have a pentagram necklace and the person is nice, professional, a hard worker and has a happy family life. Pretty hard to think that God is allowing all that to go on in some one consorting with the devil. Same thing with homosexuality. Most people have better things to worry about that other people who do things "weird" in the privacy of their own homes.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Two_bears
Date: 20 May 04 - 11:54 PM

I get along with many Christians just fine. Many mainstream Christians are pretty laid back about religion and are more accepting than their religious leaders would like. It's called living in the real world. People work in offices with people who

I get along with SOME "christians".

I had the pleasure of teaching a "Christian" how I do healings just this morning.

I taughts Reiki and Qigong to a Cathollic friend of mine about 10 years ago.

The proselytizing "Christians" that will not listen to reason; I threaten to call the cops because soliciting is not permitted in the apt complex.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 20 May 04 - 11:59 PM

Two Bears - I just answer the door naked. Usually sends them running.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:27 AM

About a week ago a couple of men came to the door with books in their hands. They looked like Mormon missionaries, but they were middle-aged, and they wanted to talk about religion. I told them I'd rather not, and they said all right, and then one asked me "Will you tell me if you believe in God?"

I thought that wasn't quite playing the game but I was polite; I said "Well, maybe not the same way you do. But I won't try to convert you." and they gave me funny little smiles and went away.

clint

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 21 May 04 - 12:10 PM

Good comeback, Clint, I must remember that!

..xx..e

(Blackcatter, remind me to always call ahead!) :-D

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Pogo
Date: 21 May 04 - 08:06 PM

{OD thanks Blackcatter for the laugh and the invitation!

Clint sounds like you were graced with the presence of Jehovos (as I call 'em) Mormon missionaries come in three kinds, the elders, the sisters and the old couples. The first two groups are generally kids nineteen and up, the last are grandmas and grandpas who've opted to serve a mission together

My mother visited a Buddhist temple as part of a religion class she took in school and she loved it. She said it was so wonderfully peaceful and quiet...they did a session of meditation which she wasn't so crazy about but only because she has a hard time sitting still for long periods of time.

So yeah...always been taught to love my neighbor as myself :O) and I really do believe that. Coming from a background of Mormon, Southern Baptist, Bahai'an, Catholic, Methodist, Moravian, Fire-Baptized Pentacostal Holiness...yeah it's all about the love, man. Otherwise it'd be frickin' anarchy |OD

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 May 04 - 10:00 PM

My family claims Catholicism back to around 800 CE. I dunno, I wasn't around then. One of 'em disagreed with Otto v. Bismarck back around 1860, when O. v. B. wanted to make Lutheranism the state religion of Germany or something.

Me, I'm against any state-approved religion, even atheism. I really and truly don't care WHAT you do a) in private, that b) involves consenting and knowledgable adult humans, c) doesn't make bother me, d) isn't forced on others, and e) doesn't make much of a mess if you do it at my place (or you clean it up and/or pay for the damage).

I've got my religious beliefs. It's the churches I got a problem with.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 May 04 - 10:11 PM

My son told me that the rules for Mormons concerning missionary work had changed. Evidently the young men used to have to go away for two years, or something, to be missionarys. Now he says they're allowed to stay home and work regular jobs in the daytime, and do missionary work at night, over the internet, through chat groups and such, instead.

He says the Church refers to this as a nocturnal e-mission.

Is this true?

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 21 May 04 - 10:51 PM

Ellen, do you seriously think that if you called before dropping by that I wouldn't be nekkid for you?!

As I said a long time ago (beyond how nice and intelligent you are, of course) you are easy on the eyes.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Pogo
Date: 21 May 04 - 11:01 PM

Hm *thoughtful* honestly I have not heard anything about that. I'm pretty sure though that run-of-the-mill proselyting is still going strong. Young men and women when they reach certain ages are still encouraged to serve missions, these generally last for two years and they are sent where-ever they are needed most.

It's a individual choice though and one that is approached with much thoughtfulness and prayer. Me personally I never served a mission but I'm still a member in good standing. One can be a missionary without the whole going around knocking on people's doors thing, you see.

I have a friend who served his mission in Rome, Italy...I'll ask him about it :)

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 May 04 - 12:02 AM

There was a documentary on it on PBS recently - followed a group of of young men in Germany doing their missionary work.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 22 May 04 - 05:27 AM

Hey Blackcatter, I wasn't concerned about YOUR eyes!

(But sure do like the compliments, though warning you that photos are only images caught in time...and time has passed.)

;-)

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 May 04 - 01:09 PM

Whatsa matter - you haven't let yourself go?

Or are you a "goer" Nudge, nudge.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: dianavan
Date: 22 May 04 - 03:19 PM

Went to the coffee house last night and heard a wonderful song. The chorus was something like: "They all love their Gods, Why can't they love each other?"

Thats why I couldn't relate to any of the Gods of my childhood. Churches are also a problem to me. Besides that, seems that all those religious folks had no trouble invoking the name of their God in war.

I found the Goddess quite by accident. It was a big surprise and I kept her a secret for a long time because I was afraid people would think I was a witch or crazy or something. Now that she has become more 'popular', I'm not afraid of mentioning her effect on my life.

I still do not like ritual or ceremony. I still have my 'private relationship' with her but I am very pleased that other women are discovering the Goddess within themselves. She is a gentle guide and protects me and my children.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 May 04 - 03:45 PM

And not just women.

I try to connect with the universal feminine energy as much as possible.

WARNING: Songs added to a B.S. Thread:


She Changes
Starhawk

She changes everything she touches
And everything she touches, changes
REPEAT

Change us, touch us
Touch us and change us
REPEAT

We are changers
Everything we touch can change

-----------

The Earth is our Mother
American Indian

The earth is our mother
We must take care of her
The earth is our mother
We must take care of her

CHORUS
Hai yunga ho yunga hey yung yung
Hey yunga ho yunga hey yung yung

Her sacred ground we walk upon
With every step we take
The air we breath renews us
With every breath we take

------------

We are the Flow
Shekhinah Mountainwater

We are the flow We are the ebb
We are the weavers We are the web

We are the weavers We are the web
We are the spiders We are the thread

We are the spiders We are the thread
We are the Witches Back from the dead

We are the Witches Back from the dead
We are the flow We are the ebb

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 May 04 - 05:14 PM

Another question (several) for the wiccans and pagans--

This "The Goddess" you mention-- is that all one person? I mean, if one of you knows the Goddess, and another one does too, do you know the same person, or do you each mean something so specifically personal that it is unique to you? Does the Goddess assert she is THE Goddess? Is she a person, in terms of being a defined indiviudual, or is it a catchword for your shared sense of the feminine?

I'm really asking. PM if you prefer.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 04 - 06:32 PM

You don't ask the easy ones, do you WYSIWYG?

I think you'll find it as simple and complex as each individual, as the Earth, as the Universe.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 May 04 - 06:56 PM

Susan,

The easiest answer is "yes."

Look back over the thread, we've sort of covered it, when talking about deities - goes, etc.

The Goddess is feminine energy or the female form or deity or something like that. For some, she has many names (as in the goddesses of mythologies you know such as Greek, Roman, Egyptian, Celtic, Norse, etc.)

Typically, in the Pagan religion of Wicca, there are two "generic" deities that are called upon during ritual - the Goddess and the God. These represent receptive and projective energy - sort of the ac (alternating current) of the Universe. The energy represented by the Goddess and God are felt to course through all living things as well as non-living things. and one cannot do magic without tapping into it.

Many Wiccans call on the Goddess and God and many other use particular gods for particular purposes. Some even have their own special gods that they call upon during all rituals. A good friend of mine considers herself a daughter of the Norse goddess Frigg, for example.

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Midchuck
Date: 22 May 04 - 07:05 PM

This "The Goddess" you mention-- is that all one person? I mean, if one of you knows the Goddess, and another one does too, do you know the same person, or do you each mean something so specifically personal that it is unique to you?

A very good question. But couldn't it be asked just as well about the conventional Jewish/Christian/Muslim God - the old sourpuss?

Of course, if you did ask it about Him, in the middle ages or the G. W. Bush administration, you'd probably be burned at the stake. So I won't ask.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: dianavan
Date: 22 May 04 - 08:30 PM

The Goddess is not a person. The Goddess has many faces but basically she is the virgin, the mother and the crone. She is the giver of life and the destroyer. She is the mother of God.

Does she speak to me? Not with words.

How did I discover her everlasting presence? When I studied history and anthropology. I realized that all of the paternalistic religions had, through the years, done everything they could to destroy her people, including genocide and slavery and yet, she was so strong that vestiges of Her remained with us today. I turned to Her and rejected the God of war.

In all Her forms, and all her names, she is essentially the same. The same Goddess that was worshipped worldwide before the separation of nations by the war God. She was one thing we could all agree on and She would provide my salvation and perhaps the salvation of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 23 May 04 - 06:30 AM

"I try to connect with the universal feminine energy as much as possible"-Blackcatter

"Um hummmmm"-Ellenpoly

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 23 May 04 - 03:50 PM

Well I did say I'm a flirt.

If I can't date women, I'll work with the Goddess.




As the old jokes goes: The Christians say that their God is coming - where mine came three times last night.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: beardedbruce
Date: 24 May 04 - 08:11 AM

Sonnet 27/11/00                                CDXCII

Are words all I may offer, to bring smile
To muse who brings those words out of my heart?
So far away, it is not just the mile
That measures distance: Years I've practiced Art
Now stand as barrier to further gift.
Yet, I would that my verse seal out the hours
To hold those moments when my muse might sift
Fingers through leaves, or seek the scent of flowers.
Maiden, mother, crone- Do I in muse seek
To turn back time, or hold to fate? I ask,
But fear the answer. Heart would have me speak,
Though I would not this muse's light now mask.
I pray heart and desire might know the Truth,
But fear it, for I know no longer Youth.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 24 May 04 - 11:37 AM

Bearedbruce, have you wandered away from the other thread which holds so many of your Sonnets? Or are you just sharing the Joy?..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 24 May 04 - 11:42 AM

Maybe we should have a competition for Poet Laureate of the Mudcat. I'd just give it to Bruce, but considering the membership (like one of my favorites: Katlaughing) we really should have a competition.

What do you all think?

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: wysiwyg
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:28 PM

I hoped and thought maybe b.b. was addressing my question. I very much appreciate all the replies and PM. Lot to ponder.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 May 04 - 09:04 AM

dianavan, I can understand your rejection of the "war god", but aren't you ignoring such as The Morrigan when you characterize all "war deities" as male?

No, I'm not being a smart ass; I'm quite serious. It seems to me that such characterizations are "male" and "female" are not only counterproductive, but ignore the historical evidence of beliefs.

Subject: RE: BS: A question for Wiccans and Pagans
From: Blackcatter
Date: 25 May 04 - 09:39 AM

Yuo're right to some extent Rapaire, though there are few goddesses that are specifically "War Goddesses." But many deities of either sex had their violent streaks for various reasons.

Most of the deities who's "lives" are commonly found in European mythology were the major gods what were worshiped on a large scale, by nearly all the people in the particular culture (Roman, Norse, Celt, etc.) Because war is not a new idea and is (ironically) as human a trait as preservation of the species, it is natural that there would be gods of war - but most cultures had male gods of war.

There are variations, of course. To me one of the oddest things is that both the Japanese and the Finns consider the sun to be feminine and there primary deity a sun goddess.