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BS: Worst President Ever???...
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Subject: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 20 Feb 07 - 07:47 PM Okay, I think its safe to assume the the united Sates has not been blessed with too many great presidents... Might of fact, it has had more than its share of crummy ones... Yeah, folks always think of the present and, yeah, the current one certainly is in the runnin' as the worst but, hey, the US has had to suffer thru the likes of Polk, Lincoln ( my vote as worst), Grant, Hayes, Wilson, Taft, Nixon, Bush I and now Bush II... So, who gets yer vote and why??? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bert Date: 20 Feb 07 - 08:07 PM I dunno whether it's B2 or B1 for having him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: kendall Date: 20 Feb 07 - 08:54 PM HArding, Grant and Jackson. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: mack/misophist Date: 20 Feb 07 - 08:56 PM Why isn't Reagan on the list? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Ebbie Date: 20 Feb 07 - 09:36 PM Are we talking about presidents who accomplished the least? Or about presidents who did the most harm? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Ron Davies Date: 20 Feb 07 - 11:27 PM Bobert, I think you might get some argument if you stated that Lincoln had started a needless war. But there's absolutely no doubt that W has done so in Iraq. That puts him somewhere close to the top in your competition here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: able Date: 21 Feb 07 - 03:10 AM There is a book that lists the ten worst presidents Warren G Harding usually gets bottom honours, but I think Billy blow job is about to displace him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: alanabit Date: 21 Feb 07 - 03:27 AM Some Americans seem to think that undeclared blow jobs cause greater human misery than wars. This can give rise to cultural misunderstandings elsewhere... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Barry Finn Date: 21 Feb 07 - 05:01 AM No misunderstanding here. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: kendall Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:43 AM I can not imagine anyone thinking that Willy's lying about an affair is more serious than what the moron has done. What kind of values does that require? The fact is, Clinton presided over 8 years of unprecedented prosperity while the moron has run us into incredible debt, caused the deaths of thousands of innocent people, and now, in spite of the clear message we sent him, wants to escalate his illegal war! Who can explain this madness? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:01 AM Nixon gets my vote ... he was president in our lifetime ... I'm amazed just how much we have forgotten in such a short time ... if we had not forgotten, I think history may not have been/or is currently being repeated. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:03 AM Bobert, how about explaining why you voted for George Bush? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Arkie Date: 21 Feb 07 - 08:35 AM I can't speak for Bobert but the following do it for me: Ill advised war with Iraq Assault on the Environment Assault on Health Care Assault on Retirement Income Escalation of National Debt International opinion of United States at all time low Failures of diplomacy (or should that be failure to use diplomacy) Weakening economy I am getting tired. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,ib48 Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:05 PM probably the next one |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: kendall Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:42 PM How about when he was telling the soldiers what a heck of a job they were doing and at the same time slashing veterans benefits? Nixon was a very good president. But, he was a horrible human being. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 21 Feb 07 - 12:54 PM For the record, I didn't vote for George Bush senior or junior... This thread is just an attempt to get folks to think beyond the here and now, which I'll admit, is hard to do... An', Ebbie, I'll leave your question of harm v. do-littleness, up to one's interpretation... 'An explanation... My dislike of Lincoln has absolutely nuthin' to do with slavery, which was on its way out anyway, but his stubborness in not makin' a greater effort to prevent the War-Between-the-States... A great man would have made a greater effort... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 21 Feb 07 - 04:38 PM Whatever 'good' Nixon did is overshadowed by Watergate, his compulsive wire tapping, his illegal investigations on anyone thought to be subversive to his regime (his famous Enemies List, hell he even talked about having columnist Jack Anderson assassinated), the break in to steal Daniel Ellsberg's pshychiatric files, his lying, his dity tricks, the power bombing of North Vietnam, his advancement of U.S. troops into Cambodia, his responsibility in the assassination and overthrow of Chile's socialist leader Allende, and support of the subsequent tyrant Pinochet. If people had not forgotten the Nixon dark side, I'm sure there would have been more checks and balances in place to prevent it happening again (with Bush). How could his evilness have been forgotten ... do people wish to have these current dark days of the Bush regime forgotten? biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,number 6 Date: 21 Feb 07 - 04:55 PM Nixon should have ended the Vietnam conflict early in his first term of office .... the U.S. was already tired of that dreadful burden by then ... much like they are tired and burdened by the Iraq war as of now ... think of the lives he could have saved (American and Vietnamese). No ... I certainly don't think he was a very good president at all. biLL |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:02 PM I'll continue to think Reagan was the worst president, at least in my lifetime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:34 PM My vote would be for Reagan...by a whisker...because of: 1. His foreign policy maneuvers. 2. His encouragement of massive fiscal irresponsibility in the 80's. 3. His general mental incompetence. 4. His very nearly getting us into World War III (in my opinion) by pressuring the Russians very hard. We were lucky that Gorbachev was on the other side, and not inclined toward such rash and aggressive an attitude in international give and take. Was he likable in a number of respects? Yeah, probably. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,282RA Date: 21 Feb 07 - 06:55 PM >>My dislike of Lincoln has absolutely nuthin' to do with slavery, which was on its way out anyway, but his stubborness in not makin' a greater effort to prevent the War-Between-the-States... A great man would have made a greater effort...<< My criticism of Lincoln is that he didn't wipe out all Southerners. Had he done so, a huge cesspool of rightwing assholes would not exist today and we wouldn't be in the mess we are in. I say we attack the fucking South again and this time finish the job proper. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,ilam Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:16 PM Its got to be Bush junior, after 9/11 turnrd worldwide sympathy into world wide hatred in a matter of weeks. Ian |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:23 PM Well, I think Bush definitely has a good shot at edging Reagan out by the end of his 2nd term. We'll have to wait and see. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: dianavan Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:30 PM Its a toss-up between Nixon and Bush Jr. Number 6 is right, if we had remembered all of the crimes Nixon committed while president, Bush would never have been elected. Maybe once but never twice. If you lived under Nixon, an atmosphere of fear was everywhere. Bush has set a similar tone. Although I despise what they have done to other nations, its what they have done to the U.S.A. that is an even bigger crime. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:46 PM And Reagan happily rolled over on all of his friends during the McCarthy era witch-hunts, and then conveniently changed parties. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Bobert Date: 21 Feb 07 - 07:56 PM Well, yeah, Nixon certainly was a slime-ball... I remember in the '68 campaign he said he had a "secret plan" for ended the Vietnam War... Turns out that plan was for Congress to pull the plug on it after another 30,000 of my brothers were killed there... Yeah, Nixon didn't have any particular love for integrity but worst???? Not in my book... Just a terrible, dark, little messed up man... Raygun??? Yeah, he was purdy bad, too... Akmost bankrupted the country in the same way that Bush the Junior has done... Same exact policies... Lincoln still gets my vote.... 'er not... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: nosluap57 Date: 21 Feb 07 - 09:55 PM since 1957: worst? Carter. 2nd worst? W greatest: Reagan most overrated: Clinton |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Don Firth Date: 21 Feb 07 - 10:26 PM Since 1957 Best: Carter. Worst: George W. Bush. 2nd worst: Reagan. 3rd worst: Nixon. 4th worst: George H. W. Bush. Pretty good, but not great (he left a budget surplus): Clinton. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Don Firth Date: 21 Feb 07 - 10:29 PM Revision. Best: John F. Kennedy. 2nd best: Carter 3rd best: Johnson (social programs, not for Vietnam War) The rest as is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Desdemona Date: 22 Feb 07 - 08:02 AM Reagan (my #2 pick) was evil, but Dubyah is evil and STUPID, so our current commander in chief gets my vote. Besides, Reagan at least has the virtue of being dead. ~D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Scrump Date: 22 Feb 07 - 09:54 AM Let me guess... are his initials GWB? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM Of course the Reagan people got the right-wing-religious-wakkos organized into a political group, and those were the pin-heads that got George w. elected both times. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: John Hardly Date: 22 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM I think that when historians look back at this era without the baggage of personal bias, I believe they'll look at both Reagan and Clinton as reasonably okay presidents who didn't get in the way of (and greatly benefitted from) the technological boom that created more widespread wealth than any other event or factor in history ever had). But that tech boom has begun to level off -- the inflation that it naturally spurred has caused the real increase in income to finally mean little enought that it's no longer a factor. But I can say, even as a guy who voted for him in the election that he lost (ha ha ha!!!), but not in the last election...I think George W. Bush will go down in history as one of the worst. He certainly caused more damage. He almost single-handedly castrated the "conservative revolution" -- killing the Republican majority at the same time. Simultaneously, he infuriated the left to such an extent that they became more reflexively anti-american than at any time since the Viet Nam war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Feb 07 - 02:39 PM Actually, I think if mankind is going to survive, he will have to march away from superstition. If he doesn't move away from superstition, he won't survive and it won't matter. If he does move away from superstition, Reagan will become to look more like a societal anchor and less like an inspiration. I think Reagan did more damage in the sense that, in order to form the coalition that his handlers wanted he made political deals that eventually resulted in the election of GWB. In that sense, GWB is just an extension of Reagan. It's just one great big political disaster. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: GUEST,DocJ Date: 22 Feb 07 - 03:14 PM BBC History magazine had a poll on the 'Greatest Prime Minister' recently. The organiser of the poll - although left of the centre - put Thatcher well up on the list. Aparently in this context'greatest' meant 'had the greatest effect.' Using that meaning of the word then A. Hitler was the greatest leader ever! A book of lists I browsed somewhere had a list of the worst person ever year by year; it went: ...Hitler, Hitler, Hitler, Nixon, Nixon, Nixon, Hitler etc... DocJ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Schantieman Date: 22 Feb 07 - 03:29 PM No doubt that both Thatcher and Hitler were great leaders. Not such nice people perhaps, and some slightlyunpopular ideas, but great at leading! Don't know much about Nixon - except that he got caught. As far as U.S. Presidents go, I reckon you'd have to go some way to beat the present incumbent as the worst ever. S |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Desdemona Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:03 PM Worth revisiting in re: "the great communicator"...or was that (would-be) "exterminator"? http://www.syrculturalworkers.com/feature/HaveYouSeenThis/HYSTrembReagan.html ~D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Feb 07 - 04:04 PM I receive e-mails from Sinn Fein from time to time, and they market a number of things Irish. One of their best selling items, they say on their website are "I Still Hate Margaret Thatcher" t-shirts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Don Firth Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:06 PM ". . . he [George W. Bush] infuriated the left to such an extent that they became more reflexively anti-american than at any time since the Viet Nam war." It seems difficult for those of the Right-Wing bent to get their heads around the concept that if a liberal objects to the course that a particular administration has set the country on, that this means that they are "anti-American." Or that, in such a case, they are "reflexively anti-American." I cite the quotation that is often seen on bumper-stickers attached to the backs of cars owned by Right-Wing Super-Patriots, "My country, right or wrong!" Let us put that in proper context: Interesting phrase. Synonymous with gung-ho, chauvinistic nationalism. The Quotations section of Microsoft's Bookshelf gives the background of the phrase and a hint of the debate it has aroused:The liberal—or any other citizen, for that matter—who objects to the illegal and immoral actions of a particular administration displays genuine patriotism. A far cry from the thoughtless flag-waving passivity of the Right-Winger who, in those circumstances, attacks liberals as being "anti-American." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:40 PM Dear Don Firth, You can dump a bigger load of crap than a constipated elephant on Ex-Lax. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Greg B Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:49 PM One surmises that the potential to be a 'Great President' and 'electability' are becoming increasingly mutually exclusive. To put it another way, the potential to be a Great President[tm] is such a rare quality and electability is now such a rare quality (since the politics of personal destruction has become the norm) that finding the two of them in one person is statistically highly improbable. Then, to find someone with those two qualities who actually WANTS the damned job--- well... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Desdemona Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:29 PM Dear Don Firth, Well said; I was struggling with a response to the same post, but you addressed it beautifully. As an American citizen blessed with intelligence *and* free will, I thank you. ~D |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:32 PM Spoken like a true fanatic, pdq. You would have been valued highly in the ranks of past loyalty-based organizations such as the Wehrmacht, the Imperial Japanese Navy, the Roman legions, the Spanish Inquisition, the KGB....or even present ones such as the CIA, the Taliban, and Hezbollah. NEVER question higher authority. Just obey orders. The sure route to promotion and advancement in any highly authoritative $ySStem. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:45 PM Liberal Hawk, So anyone who questions the prevailing Liberal hatemongering and character assasination is a right-wing nut, Nazi, bigot (go ahead, fill in your favorite perjorative)? Don Firth's post has no facts or reason, just mis-direction and name-calling. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Feb 07 - 06:59 PM Feel free to question anything you want, pdq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: pdq Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:03 PM I always have and always will. Your permission is not needed, but have a nice day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Little Hawk Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:06 PM That wasn't a giving of permission. It was merely one free being giving courtesy to another's right to the same freedom of being. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: bubblyrat Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:30 PM Here in Britain , you would be hard pressed to find ANYONE who has even the remotest idea of how your election process actually works, as it seems more like something from a Davey Crockett film than anything resembling a truly democratic selection of a leader. Most British people are of the opinion that you Americans get the Presidents that you deserve. If they are as bad as you say, then why don"t you rise up and overthrow them ?? The Mexicans would !! You have all got guns, haven"t you ??? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:56 PM bubblyrat--Actually, I don't think the Mexicans would. If they would things would be a lot better in Mexico. Also, I think there are a growing number of Americans who are beginning to wonder if their elections are fairly held and appropriately counted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Worst President Ever???... From: John Hardly Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:58 PM Patriotism? We have do go down that spiral path again? I've never met a liberal yet who was proudly patriotic. To a person, when it really comes down to talking about patriotism, liberals will generally get around to equating it with "Jingoism" and eschew it. Liberalism cannot bring itself to even think, much less talk about ANYTHING about which America is superior. Even the notion that we are good about or for anything brings sneers to their cynical lips. I was and am anti-war (the Iraq debacle) too. But it was in watching the left's reaction to it, despite my being against it too, that reconfirmed my sense that the Left is not patriotic. By definition, they do not even like America for what it is. By definition they are progressive and wish to change America. It does not suit them. |
