BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Alice
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 08:27 PM

Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: olddude
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 08:57 PM

There are noble professions in the life, such as teaching, medicine , clergy and the list goes on.   There are and have been terrible abuses in medicine, in education teachers abusing children, and in the clergy. Where there is an institution there will also be people and some people, are evil.

One of my biggest faults with Rush Lindbaugh is his uncanny ability to come up with simplistic one line solutions or comments to complex problems. I would not be simple minded enough to lay the blame on any people such as the Irish or any institution such as the Church but will blame those who are directly responsible with the act or the cover up. Then I would want to know what steps are taken to prevent future abuse while those who have done such terrible things are punished to the fullest extent of the law. And if any institution, the church in this case cannot come up with better protection measures then it is up to the Catholic people to change it . I would not be foolish enough to label all Teachers or the teaching profession abusers or it is the teaching professions fault ... That the good old Lindbaugh approach I think

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Alice
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 09:12 PM

I don't think anyone here labels all clergy as being abusers just because they are discussing the actions of some.

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: olddude
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 09:16 PM

1500 year of oppressive Catholic saturation

I could name you ten thousand that would say Opressive British rule ..

and both are equally as bad a statement.   If I wanted to dwell on historical oppression I could go on for 1000 years and they would not all be Catholic that would be a small drop in the bucket ... but if ya hate Catholics rock on ... eliminate it all ... but if you think that is going to somehow stop abuse ... smoking something I am not cause it exists everywhere .. and it is an abomination everywhere it exists ...

Now the question is how do we fix the problem get to the bottom of it and take steps to prevent it ... and I am sure there will be a lot more that surfaces as it did in this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: olddude
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 09:36 PM

I apologize, I get set off once in a while and shouldn't ... More at the Vatican level needs to be done to prevent this stuff and find the people before more children suffer from evil people like this .. it is an abomination.

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Smokey.
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 09:40 PM

I can't see how the problem can be even discussed, let alone fixed, without mentioning the Catholic church, Olddude.. And I don't think anyone here hates Catholics. I apologise for my 'bad statement'; it was merely my opinion and your disagreement is respected.

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Smokey.
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 09:53 PM

And if any institution, the church in this case cannot come up with better protection measures then it is up to the Catholic people to change it .

How? By democratic process, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 07:44 PM

The blame for this situation lies equally upon the shoulders of the miscreants, and on the hierarchy of an organisation which is so afraid of scandal that it is prepared to cover it up, even when such action perpetuates the scandal.

The Vatican needs to take a long hard look at its role in all this, and react decisively and vigorously to ensure that in the future, a much more open and responsible stance is adopted by the church authorities.

Catholics all over the world bear absolutely no blame, and are of course appalled and disgusted by those involved, and do not in the slightest condone what has been done.

But Catholics, as a group, have absolutely no power to make changes, as the Catholic Church is not a democracy. It makes its own rules, and decides autonomously what its members will do, or not do, to remain within its aegis.

It seems likely that all this publicity will force change, and that will be a good thing.

On the subject of the church's influnce and authority over the people of Eire, I have personal observations.

I spent many holidays with my grandmother in Ballyclagh, county Cork, and I was surprised at the way that working class country folk were cowed by the parish priest.

He would visit Gran within a day or so of my Grandfather coming home from England, where he worked on the roads, as a gang foreman.

He would open the front door and enter without knocking, and make himself at home in the most comfortable chair.

He would demand tea and biscuits, and then sit and chat, until he'd had his fill, and at that point he would hold his hand out for a donation, knowing that Grandfather would have three months wages in his pocket.

He would graciously accept £30-£40, and walk out without thanks, saying only "See you in church on Sunday", on which occasion we were all expected to make a further donation.

My Grandparents never said a word against this regular mugging until 1980, when the old man got finally sick of it and threw him bodily out of the house.

This might explain how these guys were able to act in the way they did, and, in some areas still do.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Smokey.
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 08:49 PM

What I find amazing is that given their level of personal and political control, their unimaginably vast financial resources, the sheer weight of numbers, and the length of time the Catholic church has had in Ireland, one would have thought that an organisation claiming to be benevolent would by now have had ample incentive and opportunity to create a showcase of a 'state' the envy of the 'Catholic world'. A model of how socially successful Catholicism can be, given the chance.. Instead, they seem to have always done their utmost to do precisely the opposite. I daresay there are countless reasons or excuses ready to be pulled out of the hat, but my (admittedly simplistic) view is that the Catholic church simply isn't 'what it says on the tin'. Hopefully the Irish people are now becoming more enlightened to that knowledge. They deserve better.

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:23 AM

"one would have thought that an organisation claiming to be benevolent would by now have had ample incentive and opportunity to create a showcase of a 'state' the envy of the 'Catholic world'. A model of how socially successful Catholicism can be, given the chance.."

Excellent post Smokey. I've alway's had mixed feelings about the Catholic Church as I'm quite a spiritual type person and I have Irish Catholic family. My own Catholic Mother never had me Baptised, and at one time I considered being Baptised as an adult. But the sheer weight of the Church's documented violation of power worldwide and throughout history - including the aiding and abetting of the Nazi's attempted genocide of Jewish people in the WWII - led me away from that path and to Gnosticism (the Catholic Church burned the original Gnostics of course). Even so, I still gave it the benifit of the doubt - those crimes were in the past. The modern Church wasn't what it once was....

I'm afraid despite my family associations and prior attraction to Catholicism, the subterfuge and systemic corruption which led to repression of public knowledge, and collusion with evil Priestly paedophile rings, has utterly shattered any sympathy I ever had for the Catholic Church. It's certainly helped me shed any illusion that it's no longer the monstrous organisation that it was 'once upon a time' in the past.

It's rotten, through and through - to this day. It's never changed, it's the same corrupt power-hungry self-serving institution it was any any era. I have no shred of sympathy whatever remaining for it as an institution.

I hope it finally utterly crumbles and burns upon it's own corrupt foundations!

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Alice
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 01:32 PM

Article in the Boston news today, requesting info from victims of Irish priests who were transferred to the US.

snip---
Victims said Smyth's order knew since the 1940s that he was a pedophile, but moved him to two U.S. parishes. Smyth died in an Irish prison after pleading guilty to 74 counts of sexually abusing 20 Irish children.
snip----

The Web site bishopaccountability.org, which was started at the height of Boston's clergy sex abuse scandal, now has a new section detailing Irish priests in the U.S. accused of sexual misconduct.

There are dozens of names listed, along with stories of abuse. But advocates have now written to the Irish prime minister, asking him to extend his investigation of child abuse.

snip----

link to article, thebostonchannel.com


http://bishopaccountability.org/ to report abuse

Subject: RE: BS: Suffer The Children (Dublin child abuse)-2
From: Smokey.
Date: 19 Jan 10 - 02:06 PM

Thread continues here.