BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter

Subject: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 09:59 PM

In spite of current political trends, America is fortunate indeed to have Jimmy Carter as a spokesman to the world. Today he made these observations regarding the Middle East.

NEW YORK – Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday that Israel will face a "catastrophe" unless it revives the Mideast peace process and establishes an independent Palestinian state.

In an interview with The Associated Press, he said Arabs will outnumber Jews in the Holy Land in the foreseeable future.

"If we look toward a one-state solution, which seems to be the trend — I hope not inexorable — it would be a catastrophe for Israel, because there would be only three options in that case," Carter said.

One would be to expel large numbers of Palestinians, which he said would amount to "ethnic cleansing."

The second would be to deprive the Palestinians of equal voting rights, which he said would amount to "apartheid."(AP) _

The third would be to give the Palestinians equal voting rights, and therefore the majority, he said.

"And you would no longer have a Jewish state," Carter said.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:06 PM

Truly the best international representative that the U. S. has. Unfortunately the U. S. will continue to blindly support Israeli policy, which is aimed at 'ethic cleansing.'

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:18 PM

I'm not sure even Israel supports Israeli policy any more. It seems that the extremist minority has far too much power in Israel, and is able to block any move toward peace and reconciliation. The Israeli people have their prejudices, but they are quite realistic about the need to make peace with the Palestinians. I'm hoping the Obama administration will be realistic and balanced in its view of Israel, and that maybe that will help bring things to resolution.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Sawzaw
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 11:05 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjUZFhj_j8w

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 01:11 AM

We just got lucky with Obama (we hope). But there are powerful forces arrayed against him. The same forces that thwarted Carter's presidency.

These forces will support scumsuckers like Bush and Cheney, because they're theirs, wholly bought and owned. And they will destroy good and decent men because good and decent is the opposite of what they stand for.

America was lucky to have Carter when he was President. Never in recent history has there been a more decent and humane one.

Of course, Washington would not have it. The scumbags prevailed. It could happen again. We must be vigilant.

Mainstream center-left voters always tend to let down their guard after a victory. This is foolish, because the enemy never relaxes. You can be sure they're plotting right now how to bring Obama down just like they did Carter, King, and the Kennedys.

People right now are all sunshine, singing "Obama will save us". Wake up. There is no honeymoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:25 AM

Sawzall - I watched the video. Do you think it relates to Jimmy Carter in some way?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:59 AM

Mah, main man, J.C....

Up until Obama, the only Dem I have ever voted for for president....

Historians will treat him well...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:11 AM

Here's Jimmy Carter at the beginning of his famous Haway the Lads speech, delivered in Newcastle-upon-Tyne in May 1977:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DQD7LiUpi4

A large concrete monolith marks the spot to this day - opposite the university, at the Civic Centre. Curiously, whilst the video is introduced somewhat anachronistically by T. Rex performing Metal Guru, T.Rex did make an appearance at Newcastle City Hall in May 1977, ably supported by none other than The Damned. Naturally I was one of the few, though we didn't hang around for Bolan. Odd that.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:21 AM

Sorry about that - it was actually March 1977 that The Damned played support to T. Rex at the City Hall. Thursday 10 March indeed - set included: Help, Neat Neat Neat, Stretcher Case, Sick Of Being Sick, New Rose, Stab Your Back. A blaze of glory as I recall...

Does anyone on either side of The Pond remember President Carter's Friendship Force? My grandparents were part of it, visiting American families & reciprocating on return visits. There was at least one morris side involved - The Shiremoor Marras. Are they still with us I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: bankley
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:24 AM

I like Jimmy.... even visited his home town in Plains Ga. 2 yrs. ago.. but he was away on a book promo tour for his... 'Palestine -Peace not Apartheid' he sure took a lot of flak for that one... there was a docu-movie that resulted from that tour called ..
"Jimmy Carter, Man from Plains" very candid and human.... which is rare, esp. in former Presidents specifically, and policians in general... and yes I did buy some peanuts at the general store, but they don't make 'Billy Beer' anymore....

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:25 AM

After leaving office, Jimmy Carter went to work building houses for Habitat for humanity. Working with his hands right along with the rest of the crew.
When Ronald Raygun left office, he spent his time clearing brush on his ranch for the camera, and making speeches for a million dollars a pop.

Intellectuals have never fared well in American politics. Americans are afraid of brains. That's why so many voted for a guy with whom they would like to have a beer.
Adlai Stevenson had more brains in his worn out shoe than Ike had in his head, but you see who won.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:08 AM

Yet curiously in New York the dominant artform is the swindle, and in LA the dominant artform is the "deal".

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: GUEST,Susu's Hubby
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:18 AM

Hahahahahahahahahahaha. This thread is hilarious. You guys really have a good sense of humor. I'm truly ROFLMAO......wait.....


you guys are serious?

I apologize....

you may continue.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:23 PM

Richard - Is it safe to assume that New York has its artform developed a little further than LA?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:28 PM

What's the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:08 PM

Habitat for Humanity is being sued for faulty construction. I will have to search for the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:44 PM

I thought that this from Kendall was priceless:

"After leaving office, Jimmy Carter went to work building houses for Habitat for humanity. Working with his hands right along with the rest of the crew.
When Ronald Raygun left office, he spent his time clearing brush on his ranch for the camera, and making speeches for a million dollars a pop."

After leaving office Kendall, "peanut" Carter went to work with his hands pitching in with the rest of the crew, because at least in that environment he could look as if he knew what he was doing as long as the lads kept him right.

Reagan, on the other hand, after leaving office, having turned the economy of the US round, restored pride in the armed forces of the USA and brought the "Cold War" to an end, was paid millions of dollars to make speeches - Primarliy because he had something to talk about after his term of office that people actually wanted to listen to.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 02:57 PM

Teribus - Reagan destroyed the American economy. Where were you in the 1980's? We are just now getting to the levels of unemployment we had during the Reagan recessions. In addition to that, he wasted tons of money on military weaponry that was destroyed during the Bush I administration. The wars in Central America that he started through the CIA are still going on, and the economic we are experiencing now traces its roots right back to the introduction of "supply side economics."

             We'd be so much better off if we could go back and do the 1980 election over it's impossible to measure. Reagan was most certainly the worst American president in my life time.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: SINSULL
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:09 PM

Teribus - you do remember Ronnie raygun falling asleep in cabinet meetings, right? And Nancy whispering things in his ear for him to repeat when his mind went blank?

Wait, Mary. There you go again...


Jimmy Carter had his own moments, of course. A water attack by a killer rabbit. The time spent incommunicado "on the mountain", the debacle and failed attempt to rescue the hostages. Billy...


Geez - our presidents are an endless source of amusement.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: alanabit
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:19 PM

Jimmy Carter had to take responsibility for the failure of the rescue of the hostages. However, it is hardly fair to blame him for the cock ups of his military forces. My father was the engineering officer on an air craft carrier. Had he been responsible for sending out helicopters on a desert mission, without sand filters, they would have hanged him from the bridge.
Ronald Reagan certainly kept his promise to do something about the US budget deficit (on which subject he campaigned so passionately in 1980, if you remember). He trebled it. Only George Bush Junior was able to take it a stage further than that.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:25 PM

That killer rabbit was a Republican agent provocateur... ;-)

Given the fact that he did his job so well, I hope he was suitably paid.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:39 PM

I never did understand the big fuss over Carter and the swamp rabbit.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 05:02 PM

Perhaps a little reality is good for you...maybe not:


"While not defending the increase of the federal debt under President Bush, it's curious to see Clinton's record promoted as having generated a surplus. It never happened. There was never a surplus and the facts support that position. In fact, far from a $360 billion reduction in the national debt in FY1998-FY2000, there was an increase of $281 billion.

Verifying this is as simple as accessing the U.S. Treasury (see note about this link below) website where the national debt is updated daily and a history of the debt since January 1993 can be obtained. Considering the government's fiscal year ends on the last day of September each year, and considering Clinton's budget proposal in 1993 took effect in October 1993 and concluded September 1994 (FY1994), here's the national debt at the end of each year of Clinton Budgets:

Fiscal
Year        Year
Ending        National Debt        Deficit
FY1993         09/30/1993         $4.411488 trillion         
FY1994         09/30/1994         $4.692749 trillion         $281.26 billion
FY1995         09/29/1995         $4.973982 trillion         $281.23 billion
FY1996         09/30/1996         $5.224810 trillion         $250.83 billion
FY1997         09/30/1997         $5.413146 trillion         $188.34 billion
FY1998         09/30/1998         $5.526193 trillion         $113.05 billion
FY1999         09/30/1999         $5.656270 trillion         $130.08 billion
FY2000         09/29/2000         $5.674178 trillion         $17.91 billion
FY2001         09/28/2001         $5.807463 trillion         $133.29 billion

As can clearly be seen, in no year did the national debt go down, nor did Clinton leave President Bush with a surplus that Bush subsequently turned into a deficit. Yes, the deficit was almost eliminated in FY2000 (ending in September 2000 with a deficit of "only" $17.9 billion), but it never reached zero--let alone a positive surplus number. And Clinton's last budget proposal for FY2001, which ended in September 2001, generated a $133.29 billion deficit. The growing deficits started in the year of the last Clinton budget, not in the first year of the Bush administration."


{the 1.4 trillion added to the National Debt in 8 years of Bill Clinton's budgets is about the same as the 1.6 trillion dollars added under the 8 years of Ronald Reagan...}

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 05:52 PM

The following is a statement from Wikipedia. If you don't think it's right, you might want to go in and correct it:



                   "Clinton presided over the longest period of peace-time economic expansion in American history, which included a balanced budget and a federal surplus..."

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 05:57 PM

The Clinton surplus myth is right there with the Gobal Warming myth, the Illuminati and the Tooth Ferrie. All are the product of the immagination.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:01 PM

Let me see if I've got this right; the polar ice caps are melting because the earth is getting warmer, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:09 PM

There was a scientific article just a few months back that showed the Polar Ice Caps to be back to the exact same level they were in 1979. Fluctuations are always happening. Things are cyclic.

What is amazing to me is that Global Warming hockers were upset to find that the Polar ice was back to "normal". Shouldn't they have celebated? Instead, they got angry.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:33 PM

All the hot air around here certainly isn't helping.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 07:47 PM

Let's see, the polar ice caps are almost back to normal, but in the 1600's people searched for the Northwest Passage and found all avenues blocked with ice. We are just now getting to the point for the first time in human memory where the Northwest Passage is expected to be open for navigation.
             One can only conclude that the situation must have been abnormal for one hell of a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 08:58 PM

Carter was probably the most intelligent president we have ever had. He made the mistake of trying to micro manage the government, an impossible task.

Of course people wanted to hear what Reagan had to say, he was an actor? He and his one liners that other people wrote were very popular.

He promised to balance the budget. In 8 years he never even submitted a balanced budget. He lied about Iran Contra, he lied about arms for hostages. Some of us have long memories.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 09:38 PM

Reagan's whole life was a lie. Whoever was running Ronald Reagan was the best director in history--at least to date.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 01:05 AM

"There was a scientific article just a few months back that showed the Polar Ice Caps to be back to the exact same level they were in 1979."

I don't know what scientific article pdq refers to but I would request that he point us to it.

Just now I researched the question and I found so many articles and links to 1979 that I decided not to bother posting them.

Suffice it to say that in EVERY case they refer to 1979 as diametrically opposed to pdq's statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 01:26 AM

Jimmy Carter being interviewed on NPR...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=99875313

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 01:53 AM

As usual, people's view of the past is colored almost entirely by their partisan phobias and prejudices...they have already decided who "the bad guys" are both here and elsewhere and it's written in stone inside their brains.

That's why these discussions always elicit the same repetitive behaviour and automatic reaction/response/attack/counter-reaction/counterattack from the same people. Only our various respective deaths (whenever they come) will ever end it, I'm afraid.

Meanwhile, it's fun to vent and once again be "right". We all do it because we just can't resist doing it. Some can resist better than others, mind you, but it's a pretty universal disease of the human mind.

****

I've heard and read so much crap about global warming by now (both pro and con) that I don't know what to believe about it anymore...but I'm somewhat skeptical of the present most popular theories that are being touted in the general media. I'm not saying I know for sure. I don't know for sure. And I am happy to admit that I don't know for sure. How could I???? I'm not in a position to. All I have to go on is the conflicting words and opinions of thousands of opinionated people both qualified and unqualified, who all seem VERY sure they are right! Funny they can't agree then, isn't it?

The one thing none of them can possibly imagine, it seems, is this: they might be wrong and someone else might therefore be right! ;-) That possibility scares them quite a bit more than the global warming does. To even think it would be sacrilege!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:08 AM

LH - Is your position that you aren't sure whether or not the earth's surface is getting warmer. Or that you think it's getting warmer, but you're not sure man kind has anything to do with it?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 10:03 AM

Well, seems that one thing is fir certain... With Reagan and Bush, Jr. the USA was hit hard by terrorists... Remember the marine barracks that were hit during Reagan's administration??? And, of course, 9/11 occured during Bush, Jr's...

Now back to Jimmy Carter... Yeah, he was consumed with saving 50 some American diplomats who were held hostage for the last half of his administration and because of his tireless negotiations was able to get them released hours after Reagan was sworn in... I think these two chapters of history speak volumes about the difference between Jimmy Carter and Reagan/Bush-Jr....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: pdq
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 10:15 AM

Blog: Science

Sea Ice Ends Year at Same Level as 1979

Michael Asher (Blog) - January 1, 2009 11:31 AM

Rapid growth spurt leaves amount of ice at levels seen 29 years ago.

"Thanks to a rapid rebound in recent months, global sea ice levels now equal those seen 29 years ago, when the year 1979 also drew to a close.

Ice levels had been tracking lower throughout much of 2008, but rapidly recovered in the last quarter. In fact, the rate of increase from September onward is the fastest rate of change on record, either upwards or downwards.

The data is being reported by the University of Illinois's Arctic Climate Research Center, and is derived from satellite observations of the Northern and Southern hemisphere polar regions.

Each year, millions of square kilometers of sea ice melt and refreeze. However, the mean ice anomaly -- defined as the seasonally-adjusted difference between the current value and the average from 1979-2000, varies much more slowly. That anomaly now stands at just under zero, a value identical to one recorded at the end of 1979, the year satellite record-keeping began.

Sea ice is floating and, unlike the massive ice sheets anchored to bedrock in Greenland and Antarctica, doesn't affect ocean levels. However, due to its transient nature, sea ice responds much faster to changes in temperature or precipitation and is therefore a useful barometer of changing conditions.

Earlier this year, predictions were rife that the North Pole could melt entirely in 2008. Instead, the Arctic ice saw a substantial recovery. Bill Chapman, a researcher with the UIUC's Arctic Center, tells DailyTech this was due in part to colder temperatures in the region. Chapman says wind patterns have also been weaker this year. Strong winds can slow ice formation as well as forcing ice into warmer waters where it will melt.

Why were predictions so wrong? Researchers had expected the newer sea ice, which is thinner, to be less resilient and melt easier. Instead, the thinner ice had less snow cover to insulate it from the bitterly cold air, and therefore grew much faster than expected, according to the National Snow and Ice Data Center.

In May, concerns over disappearing sea ice led the U.S. to officially list the polar bear a threatened species, over objections from experts who claimed the animal's numbers were increasing."

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 10:49 AM

Well, it do beat all. Everything I have read focusses on ice thickness, rather than extent, as being the salient point.

But hey. I'm no scientist.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 03:44 PM

Rigenslinger: I do not know your home country, perhaps you are even an American, but if I had the power, and you do live in a country other than America, I would trade you Jimmy Carter for a thin dime.

Who in the world made Jimmy Carter spokesperson for the United States? I'll bet that's news to President Obama.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 04:07 PM

Jimmy Carter speaks for himself. Why would he want to speak for America?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:09 PM

Aren't all Americans spokespeople for the United States in their different ways?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:34 PM

Well, I suppose they are, but the media pays more attention to some people than it does to others.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 06:38 PM

Helps to say stuff that make sense, which Jimmy Carter seems to do more often than not.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 07:22 PM

Rig, regarding global warming...

My impression is that we have been experiencing an overall warming phase, yes....but I am skeptical that the human contribution to it is a major factor. I do think it is a partial factor, so I have no objection to efforts to, for instance, reduce carbon emissions, but I doubt it's the main factor.

There was a major global cooling phase in the mid-1940s. Human industry was increasing rapidly during that period, due to war production...but the planet cooled during the same period.

There was another notable cooling phase in the 1970s, despit the steady continuance of our industrial civilization, and there were scary articles being written then about the danger of a new ice age. After awhile that stopped and we went into another warming phase. I don't think you can tie any of those past phases to man-based carbon emissions, I think they were cyclical in nature, not human-caused, and I think that may well be true of the present warming phase.

I think that what we are experiencing is more likely a natural event that has a great deal more to do with cyclical changes in the sun's output of energy than with man's industrial activities on this planet. In a period of heightened sun activity, this planet warms. In a period of lowered sun activity, it cools.

I will further add this: I don't KNOW for sure. I'm not in a position to. I'm merely making the best speculative guess on the matter than I can, given all the stuff I've read about it so far. I may be entirely wrong. And that goes for anyone else here too, despite their level of enthusiasm and their utter certainty that they are right.

(As I said, most people are a lot more scared of being proven wrong about something...anything...that they espouse or believe in than they are of global warming. That's what makes them so darned intolerant when they argue with others about it.)

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 07:29 PM

Oh, and if I were a politician, I would still back measures to reduce carbon emissions and get off being dependent on fossil fuels anyway....regardless...so my opinion about global warming being primarily a natural cyclical phenomenon (assuming my opinion had any effect on public policy...which it doesn't), my opinion would be no threat to the primary objectives of those who support the current global warming theories which are most popular lately (those being Al Gore's view of it).

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 07:57 PM

Yeah, I feel pretty much the same way about it. The economic model that's been adopted by the industrialized nations is probably more of a threat to the planet than anything else, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 08:25 PM

As in the case of the notion that smoking cigarettes can cause cancer, and that Aids is spread by unprotected sex, I'd be inclined to go with the mass of scientists who believe human activity is a significant factor contributing to a general global warning, rather than with the occasional exception who thinks those ideas are all nonsense.

It's too important to gamble on the possibility they are all wrong.

If there are natural causes making for global warming, which is of course quite possible, that doesn't make it any less important to do what we can to avoid making things still worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 08:47 PM

I trust what I see with my own eyes. Satellite views of the North Pole and the obviously shrinking ice sheet. Polar bears drifting around on ice cakes miles from land.
An ice floe the size of Rhode Island that broke off from Antarctica.
In my own yard, Cardinals, the state bird of north Carolina, never seen in Maine until recently. Possums, unheard of in Maine! Buzzards, another southern bird. The last 10 years are the hottest on record according to NOAA, National Oceanic atmospheric administration, not some chicken little scare monger.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 08:53 PM

McGrath and kendall - I agree with both of you. It just makes good sense to try and contain the possibility of making things worse. And I've noticed things here in Oregon that indicate to me that things are warming up, at least around here.
         20 years ago people would move here from California, and plant the same yard plants the planted down south. The plants would always die. Now those plants live and native plants like huge Douglas Fir trees are dying from too much heat and not enough water.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:21 PM

I also agree with you, McGrath, we might as well do whatever we can to lessen the problem, regardless of what is the primary factor that's causing it.