BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 08:56 AM

Aren't persistent delusions and hearing voices earmarks of mental instability and/or serious mental illness?

Perhaps a medical evaluation is in order.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 01:25 PM

We all do it from time tomtime. It's not so much what we want to hear, it's what we expect to hear.

We get in a dispute and we build up this set of assumptions about the other person, and whatever they say we are likely to hear what we have programmed ourselves to hear.

So in political terms you have someone like Obama, who is almost painfully moderate, someone who would be recognised in just about any other country as a decent conservative, with policies to match. But to thousands of his fellow citizens he evidently comes across as a crazy and fanatical Socialist or Nazi. He can't seem to open his mouth without declaring his passionate love for his country and his belief in its destiny to form an "ever more perfect union" - and someone like Doug sees and hears someone who thinks that America is the source of all evil in the world, as he indicated in that last post of his.

It's easy enough to see how people who see the world through the distorted lense of racism should react in that kind of way. But it's much more puzzling when those who don't suffer under that kind of handicap are caught up in this kind of delusion.

Disagreements about policy are one thing. But this is something that goes way beyond that. It is genuinely frightening. Where does it end? Another dead president?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Sep 09 - 02:23 PM

We all do it from time to time.

Agreed. But then there are those that do it ALL the time.

... it's much more puzzling when those who don't suffer under that kind of handicap [racism] are caught up in this kind of delusion.

He's sure suffering under SOME kind of handicap.

It is genuinely frightening.

You Betcha! People like Doug ARE frightening.

Where does it end? Another dead president?

Ask Doug- don't ask me. He's one of those that are dangerously delusional.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 11:35 AM

Doug is a nice guy who sees thing from a different angle.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 01:10 PM

No, he's not, and I'm REALLY tired of people making excuses for this man.

It is NOT simply a "difference of opinion" or different angle" at all.

He inhabits a alternate, delusional reality & his ilk are responsible for spreading the lies and bullshit and disinformationt that encourage and activate the unthinking, ignorant and sometimes violent right-wing lunatic fringe.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 02:02 PM

Evidently it isn't only on the far right that people are liable to fall into just the same trap, as disagreement about politics degenerates into the politics of hate.

Picture of an ilk sounding off

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 03:02 PM

McGrath:

If you're implying that I "hate Doug" You're way off. I don't hate Doug- if anything, I pity him.

As for "engaging in the politics of hate", I don't see that examining the consequences of the behavior & mindset of persons like Doug pertains.

What I DO hate is what mindless idiots are doing to my country.

Per H.L. Mencken- hardly a pinko leftie:
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:03 PM

But then that last sentence is precisely what the people with the banners and the lies and the screaming would no doubt they of themselves say of themselves, and they believe it too.   

The puzzle is where it's coming from, so far as the non-racists among them. I think one part of it is a mindset that says that in a battle the only thing that matters is winning, and anything that helps achieve that is OK. And that's not an attitude restricted to the right.

Why, even Saul Alinsky - whom I admire enormously in many ways - says more or less precisely that in Rules for Radicals. And to me it seems that may be a way to win a battle, but it's also a good way to lose a war in the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 04:39 PM

...Half-wracked prejudice leaped forth
"rip down all hate," i screamed
Lies that life is black and white
Spoke from my skull. i dreamed
Romantic facts of musketeers
Foundationed deep, somehow.
Ah, but i was so much older then,
I'm younger than that now....

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: kendall
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:28 PM

We all have an opinion. One can argue with Doug's, but to say his opinion is wrong is not right. We Liberals are known for our tolerance of other opinions that don't jibe with our own.

In my opinion, the most we can say is we disagree and state why.

I've never known Doug to spread lies and just because he belongs to the party that I have no use for doesn't make him a bad guy. I have relatives and friends who belong to that party. Does that make me one of them? Guilt by association?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 06:47 PM

One can argue with Doug's, but to say his opinion is wrong is not right.

I never said his opinion was "wrong".

I said and still say his "FACTS"[sic] are wrong. His tactics are irresponsible.

And as has been said elsewhere, no amount of belief can make a fact.

I have plenty of tolerence for others' opinions. I have little to no tolerence for lies, distortions, inventions and outright bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 09 - 07:45 PM

If I say I disagree with someone of course I am saying that they are wrong. Just as they are saying that I am wrong. That's what disagreeing with someone means.

But saying someone is wrong isn't the same as saying that he or she is a bad person, just as saying that someone is right is the same as saying he or she is a good person. Some of them are and some of them aren't, both ways.

But that's the line that is being crossed in a lot of the public dissent we've been seeing. It's the kind of thing that was happening in the election when John McCain felt it was his duty to rebuke people who were talking hate talk. And the shameful thing is that there doeesn't seem to have been something similar this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 08:29 AM

...rebuke people who were talking hate talk. And the shameful thing is that there doeesn't seem to have been something similar this time.

Again, take this up with Doug & his ilk. This crap is coming from the gang of lunatics the Republican party has evidently become, whether it be fake 'tea parties', gun-toting thugs at 'Town Meetings', 'death panels' or Congresswoman Lynn Jenkins of Kansas (hone of the Creation Science[sic] Museum with humans riding dinosaurs, etc) calling for a 'great white hope' - her precise words- to oppose President Obama.

Apparently there's no one in the Republican Partywith a shred of decency left, or they'd speak out to condemn this garbage, and the people - Limbaugh etc.- who spew it.

What's more amazing to me is that the President keeps taking this filth on the chin without speaking out.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: number 6
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:07 AM

"Half of the people can be part right all of the time, Some of the people can be all right part of the time, But all the people can't be all right all the time. I think Abraham Lincoln said that. I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours. I said that.

....... Bob Dylan


BiLL

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:38 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmE7tuR0364

The Late Show with David Letterman / David Letterman and President Barack Obama - 09/21/09
"David Letterman and President Barack Obama discuss whether the President believes racism is behind recent political attacks."

-snip-

Part of President Obama's response was "I've been black all my life."

IMO, that was an astute political response which can be taken in more than one way.

See the different responses posters (mostly Americans of mixed races) at racialicious.com wrote about that comment:

http://www.racialicious.com/2009/09/23/open-thread-i-was-black-before-the-election/#comments

For what it's worth, I agree with the following poster to that thread who wrote that

"Obama knows where his priorities are. It does not matter what he thinks on the issue; his number 1 priority is health care reform. He will have plenty of time as a lame duck (inevitably, hopefully in 6 years and not 3) to agree with president Carter. Until then I would be f***king* angry if he was stepping in the flaming bag of poop that is race. He fell for it with stupid Professor Gates, and I hope he learned his lesson.

I think that Obama understands fundamentally that there are a lot of people who are comfortable with a black president as long as he is not a reparations-demanding slavery-blaming N-word saying Civil Rights stereotype. I think if he EVER shows a shade of that, then he will immediately lose the (paradoxical) patina of the post-racial president, and become the Angry Black Man in the eyes of too many people. He needs too broad a base of support to be able to risk this.

Obama is unique in that he figured out a "second card" that is not the race card, that a powerful black politician can play – the "race is not a big deal" card. By leaving race on the black burner, while doing a damned good job as president, he can let it die the slow death of obscurity that it SHOULD be dying – the same death by obscurity that hate against the Irish or Italians or Catholics is dying.

The more he distances himself from the ugly politics of race, the more the fact that he is black and the fact that he is president say everything he needs to say. Ever notice that no one EVER has anything to say about Barack Obama's blackness, except the ol' "what do you think about us having a black president?" Thats what he WANTS us to talk about – the visions of progress and equality, instead of racial politics. He makes people against him, those that blow the dogwhistle of race, just look more racist, because he forces THEM to bring it up and be racist, and he lets the loudmouths in the media call them out. This will only silence them more on the issue of race.

Whether or not he takes these actions because he sees it as an actual strategy against racism (this is how I see it) or because he thinks its simply the most expedient thing to do with regard to his political agenda, I have no idea. But I sure hope it works out both for racism and his politics.
-Minotaar, Posted 24 Sep 2009 at 2:16 am ¶

-snip-

* I edited the curse word to more closely fit my puritanical sensitivities.


BTW, kendall, with regard to your statement that President Obama is as much black as he is white, while that is biologically true, race is a social construct, and not a biological one. Most people in the United States are still defining race based on the one drop of black blood rule. Given this socialization (and skin color, hair texture and other physical clues that people have been socialized to believe are what "black people look like"), President Obama undoubtedly fits the category of a person who has been "black all of his life".

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: meself
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 09:54 AM

That quoted post is very astute. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:06 AM

Actually I meant to write "kendall, with regard to your statement that President Obama is just as much white as black"...

But the way I initially phrased that sentence revealed my position on that matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 10:08 AM

You're welcome, meself.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 01:12 PM

I wondered whether "black burner" was a typo or a neologism I hadn't come across. Neat anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 01:38 PM

I think it's a typo, but that's just a guess because I've never heard "black burner" used in "real life" (meaning life outside of the Internet) and I've never seen that phrase written anywhere else.

For what it's worth, I read that phrase as "back burner" and didn't realize it actually was "black burner" until you pointed it out.
I guess the poster had "black" people on his/her mind, and that led to him/her typing the word "black" instead of the word "back".

However it came about, it's interesting to think of the implications of "race" [being kept] on the black burner".

That phrase calls to mind James Baldwin's 1963 book The Fire Next Time.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:03 PM

There've been a good few potentially useful expressions that probably started out as typos. For example this one I found here - "temperment".

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:05 PM

Joe, the problem is less the Israeli people and more AIPAC. They are the propaganda organ of the US which Obama has supported.

Jim Sleeper's article should have said, "It's not all about race" but to deny that there is this component goes against American history.

The problem is in the US today, Conservatism as a philosophy has been replaced by radical right wingers who refuse to rationally discuss the current state of affairs. The G.O.P. has killed Conservatism as a respectable alternate voice in the debates. So we have opinions by indoctrinated minds who for certain extra-political reasons need to keep drawing their dubious lines in the sand. When this idea is taken in, then you will see that any constructive dialogue has been replaced by name calling and ad-hominem arguments.

What's left? Pat Buchanan's "culture war"?

People are hurting today but the rage is misplaced. The people who have caused the problems with our economy are being supported by the ragers.

Carter has always assumed the role of a rational mediator. This was his true legacy. He was a beacon of light in his appeal to reason and discussion rather than knee-jerk
right-wing radicalism.

Micheal Moore is left-wing knee jerk you say? He is dealing squarely with the issues and
not just ad-hominem attacks on figures. He's not out calling people "liars" but presenting his facts in an orderly and artistic way.

Jimmy Carter may have made some blunders in the White House.   What president hasn't?
But he brought to the office a sense of dignity, decorum, and open discussion.
Bush and Reagan shut that all down.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 09 - 02:12 PM

Surely the truth is that "Conservatism as a philosophy" in the States is represented by the mainstream Democratic Party".

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 06:39 AM

Now Jimmy Carter--the man with a heart as big as the Milky Way--is trying to make peace with the militant Jews who have been attacking him for the last several years. I wonder if they will be big enough to accept?

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 08:55 AM

Who knows, Rigs... The main thing is that Jimmy is going to them with an open hand rather than a fist... Peace starts somewhere...

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 10:25 AM

It does in fact, Bobert.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:25 AM

"The way to war is a well-paved highway and the way to peace is still a wilderness."
- Paul P. Harris

May President Carter be successful in bringing peace out of the wilderness.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:33 AM

Well, Kat, if anyone can do it...

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 02:31 PM

I just heard part of an interview on public radio of Walter Mondale by Garrison Keillor.

Mondale thinks Jimmy Carter deserves more credit than he got.

He said, "We told the truth, we obeyed the law, and we kept the peace."

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: LadyJean
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:35 AM

When Carter was president, I could walk from one end of Walnut Street to the other without being panhandled.

I went to church, when I went, with a dollar for the plate, and nothing else, except Kleenex and antacids, both for my own use.

Now, I'll be panhandled at least twice no matter what city street I walk down.

Being older, I go to church more regularly, besides the money for the plate, I lug a bag of groceries for the food pantry, and some item for the shelter they run for homeless men.

In 1980, I voted for John Anderson. At least once a week, I kick myself good and hard for having done so.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 02:19 AM

"When Carter was president, I could walk from one end of Walnut Street to the other without being panhandled."

It was the times, not because Carter was president. Frankly, he sucked!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 03:08 AM

I know back in the day Jimmy Carter and his family have been ridiculed a lot but now I respect him for the way he remains involved with things that are important to him instead of going off spending the rest of his days playing golf. I don't know of any politicians here in the UK who remain involved with humanitarian issues unless they keep quiet about it. In the UK they tend to write books and dish the dirt about others instead of doing something useful.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 10:10 AM

Don't die, Jimmy, not yet!

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 12:15 PM

Each president, when they enter into office, is asked to plan how they want their funeral to run. Jimmy's will be modest when the time comes, but there will be enough pomp and circumstance to put the Orange one into apoplexy and try to make it about himself. It would be best if Jimmy sticks around until there is a well-balanced 46 to show the appropriate sadness when the time does arrive.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 12:54 PM

An earlier post on this thread, by
Mudcat's late lamented katlaughing,
quoted Paul P. Harris,

comparing the well-paved highway to war with
the wilderness in between us and peace.

Does anyone else here remember Thomas the Rhymer?

O see ye not yon narrow road
So thick beset wi' thorns and briars?
That is the Path of Righteousness,
Though after it but few inquires.

And see ye not yon braid, braid road
That lies across the lily leven?
That is the Path of Wickedness,
Though some call it the road to Heaven . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 02:44 PM

I still remember Saturday Night Live where Dan Ackroyd played Jimmy Carter campaigning, emphasis on smile, personality, but no policy. It was a level of lampooning that incorporated a humor and even gentility that wee no longer experience in political life, nor Saturday Night Live.

Carte Ford Debate

President Carter burning a dollar

The genuine Jimmy Carter has been a beneficent presence in American life outside of politics and a reminder of a better way.

And, of course, he challenged Homer Simpson to a duel

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 03:49 PM

He was the best president you could ever have had but for external vicissitudes and the "charisma" of the philistine twat who replaced him, the bloke who engineered a horrible and unjust campaign in Central America and who in turn gave succour to Thatcher, who gave succour to Pinochet and who, along with Reagan, set in train the sequence of events that has led us to the ghastly state we are in today. If only things had gone better in 1979/1980 on both sides of the Atlantic...

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 19 - 07:33 PM

I remember the week after Jimmy left office. Reagan had the solar cells Jimmy had installed from the white house roof ripped down.

I suspect Reagan created some foreign interference, much like Trump, because Ronnie had negotiated the release of the American hostages from Iran
ON THE DAY OF HIS INAUGURATION.

Iran Contra came much later.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Nov 19 - 03:08 PM

Here is Mr. Carter at Emory University.

Politics, peace and peanut butter

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Dec 19 - 11:00 PM

Talking of Emory University,
when Mr. Carter fell this year and needed attention,
I believe that was the hospital where he was kept under observation.
Since then he has enjoyed Thanksgiving with his family.

Today the reports broke that he is in hospital again --
but if you slow down and read the small print,
it's the hospital nearest Americus, Georgia,
and not
Emory University in Atlanta.
He needs a little attention, but not as serious as last time.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 03 Dec 19 - 02:11 PM

How did I miss this last month?

women, girls, and climate change

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 04 Dec 19 - 10:20 AM

I was paying very little attention, those many decades ago,
when the rabbit assault hit the mass media.
So I really didn't bother to find out exactly what they spoke of.
And then Pete Seeger and Arlo Guthrie performed
a joint performance on the Boston Common,
memorable for many reasons -- I was among the multitudes.

Pete Seeger took a breather during the show
and Arlo Guthrie sang Tom Paxton's Bunny Wunny song.
It got plenty of laughs, but Mr. Guthrie was disgruntled
when we failed to sing along on the Bunny Wunny chorus.
I think it was a combination of
embarrassment and never-before-heard-this-silly-song.

Only now am I looking at the summaries in hindsight,
and I see that Jody Powell, talking to the press,
carelessly repeated a remark from Mr. Carter
about something that occurred when Mr. Carter was quite alone.

I always had an impression, from the mass media's massive stench,
that the Secret Service were in the little boat with the President.
More fool me, and
anyway I am no longer so naïve about the press/media.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Dec 19 - 11:49 AM

"The quid pro quo was not in him."

That quote was printed when
the Oval Office had a Bush in it.
The "him" was Jimmy Carter,
and the person who made the statement was not identified.
The context, during the Bush administration,
was a reminiscence about
President Carter facing off with Congress.

And today, with Congress mobilized for impeachment,
that quote resonates as never before.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Dec 19 - 04:53 PM

I remember 'In his heart, he knows your wife'

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Dec 19 - 03:53 PM

Here's wishing him
at least one more Happy Christmas with his family in Georgia.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Feb 20 - 02:16 PM

When you have reached Jimmy Carter's age,
it's a big deal to make it to
one more Leap Year day, yes?
Hope he and his family have a happy one.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Mar 20 - 11:44 AM

I note that just before ending his presidential campaign,
Pete Buddigieg had one last breakfast meeting with
Mr and Mrs Carter in Georgia.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 08 Dec 21 - 08:07 PM

And Mr. Carter has now managed to outlive
the man who referred to him as
"chicken-fried McGovern."

Which some people call humor, it sounds hostile to me, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 03:56 PM

Jimmy Carter has been at home in hospice care for some months now,
and his grandson Josh Carter recently told the press that
it is clear that "we are in the final chapter."

Such things he has lived to see, especially with the Presidency!

Subject: RE: BS: Lucky to have Jimmy Carter
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 04:24 PM

Rosalynn, who had a birthday this week, 96, has a form of dementia. I don't know how bad it is but she is still at home. I fear that with this close couple that when one goes, the other will soon follow. I've seen it happen with old family friends.