UK guitar luthier

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 12:48 PM

> No such word as "dorgive", dummie!

Dunno about that, Fred, but "dorgiveness" is what you're praying for when you've just chucked up in the front-garden petuniua bed, and are attempting to thread the front-door key into the lock without bending it. Ebriated? moi?

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 07 Oct 25 - 03:06 PM

But was it worth it, MtF? :)

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 08 Oct 25 - 07:56 AM

Far from it, Fred: I've never been permitted to forget the After, and remember fragments of the Before with deep and abiding shame. Lesson learnt, the hard way.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 08 Oct 25 - 09:09 AM

Oh dear, MtF.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 08 Oct 25 - 06:25 PM

When I send my D-18 to Brook, which should be a week this Monday, I'll put a set of 13-56 in the case.

It was a mistake dropping down a gauge. The lower tension just feels wrong to me. I've had Gibsons and used 12s happily but on this D-18 they're just meh.

Other Martins may well be happy with 12s 'cos not all guitars are the same. Can they be? Short answer: no. Long answer: hell no! :-D

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 02:44 AM

My D-18 is fine on 12s, and my hands are happier.

I used 13s on both my Martin Dreads for years until the arthritis and Tenosynovitis made it too painful, and I dropped down a gauge. Once I got the relief sorted, no problems, no loss of volume that I’m aware of, and they both sound ‘livelier’ (as In, they ‘have more life in the sound’). I occasionally put a set of 13s on them to check that I’m not deceiving myself, but they make both guitars sound ‘choked’, less ‘life in the sound’ to my ears.

But, as we constantly say, to each his own!

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 05:46 AM

BWM,

If the nut slots are cut for 12s and you sling on 13s, don't you find the strings would bind there?





-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 06:20 AM

I doubt that it’s possible to cut a nut so precisely for 12s that would bind with 13s, especially as nut slots would tend to get slightly wider with use.

My D18 spent 40 odd years with 13s but I gave it a rest with 12s several years ago.

Picked up one of my guitars from the Guitar Repair Workshop (Hyde branch) yesterday. They’ve had it for three weeks - friendly bunch and a relatively painless process - much less hassle than travelling to their previous premises at PMT in Salford. Sounds like they intend to keep both this and the Manchester branch operating.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 06:30 AM

They DO intend to keep both. I know the team well from their Salford years. Steve brought two of my instruments 3-4 years ago. They've worked on most guitars I've had.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 09 Oct 25 - 07:02 AM

It's mostly John at the Hyde branch, Steve (owner and founder)at the STS Apollo branch.

They're a Gibson and Taylor Authorised Service Centre. Andy was part of the team at Salford but he left to set up his own business. Going back further there was Danny, who "went a bit weird" and was let go :)

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 10 Oct 25 - 08:50 AM

I swapped the 12-54 for 13-56 and found that this D-18 responds a lot better to the latter.

It wasnt that the setup wasn't ideal for 12s as neck relief, first fret string height and 12th fret action were all within Martin specs.it was that 12s didn't drive the top.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 13 Oct 25 - 06:38 AM

Been looking at several Brook videos on YouTube.

In one it was mentioned that you won't find the workshop by following sat nav instructions. Surely that's wrong? I 2ant my D-18 to get there.

So, those who've been - did YOU have trouble finding it?

Cheers

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 25 - 07:24 AM

Yes, my sat-nav took me to the wrong place entirely. They are off the beaten track, in an old barn up a narrow lane. The guys at Brook recommend you call them when you get to the nearest village (Hittesleigh?) and they will direct you in - that’s what I did.

If you’re shipping your guitar there, there won’t be a problem - you can rest assured that the local delivery guys know where they are! You can trust that your guitar will get there especially if, as you said earlier, they arrange shipping both ways.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 13 Oct 25 - 08:21 AM

Hittisleigh, I think.

Brook WILL arrange shipping both ways but both ways requires you to have a printer so that you can print a courier label. I don't, so I can only get return shipping from Brook. I'll get APC Overnight to ship there.

They may have been to the workshop before but, just in case, I'll give them the contact number.

Thanks

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 25 - 11:37 AM

Don’t know APC but, if they’re a decent carrier, they should have drivers who know the area. Are they the carriers that Brook use or recommend?

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 13 Oct 25 - 11:59 AM

I don't know if they're Brook recommended or used by them but, over the years, I must've shipped over a dozen guitars by APC and never had an issue.

Some couriers I'd keep well away from, so don't be tempted by "man with a van" unless you know and trust ’em, or at the very least keep a tube of Bostik and a prayer book!

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Oct 25 - 02:29 PM

I never ship a guitar, I always drive and take it or, if it's going to that London, I take it by train. Hence my run down to Devon to the Brook workshop. Unless I become unable to drive, I don't see that changing.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 13 Oct 25 - 08:13 PM

I DID become unable to drive.

Had my lovely Harley, travelled all over England, Wales and Scotland. Had a blast, so no regrets.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 15 Oct 25 - 08:06 AM

I've managed to sell the Liquid Metal bridge pins for a small loss.

I've read other posts (on other forums) referring to their weight as "super light" or "light". They're not, they're thapproximately the same weight as brass pins and considerable heavier than ebony or bone.

They DO add sustain, as well as a little more volume. You could add that they may last a great many years without wearing. But is that worth the £150-ish it'll cost you to buy 'em?
IMHO, a waste of money.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 05:50 AM

Gone back to having a go myself, sending the D-18 to Brook if I mess up.

The Martin compensated bone saddle only comes in high I'm told, so some shaving is more than likely.

Famous last words: "This shouldn't be a problem".

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 09:37 AM

You need a disc sander - to make sure the bottom of the saddle is flat and square to the sides.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 10:17 AM

Ray,

here's my thinking:

A vice with flat jaws, mark how much to take off, saddle in the vice with just excess visible and file off.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 12:42 PM

If you only have one blank, you can’t afford to make a mistake. A luthier would use a disc sander but they aren’t cheap but how about one of these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/KATSU-Tools-Woodworking-Adjustable-Sandpapers/dp/B0FCDBVS5G?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A33LRO9OOPCNMX ?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/KATSU-Tools-Woodworking-Adjustable-Sandpapers/dp/B0FCDBVS5G

---

Hotlink shortened and added. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 02:15 PM

I thought of that, Ray, and ordered two identical saddles.

One I'll mess with and leave the other as is, just in case the D-18 has to go to Brook.

It probably WILL have to but I'm trying to save money, if I can. Plus I'd like, at some point, to be able to do my own setups :)

Thanks for the links

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 02:45 PM

For sanding saddles on the bottom i tape a piece of 150-grit to my work-top (i.e. to a perfectly flat, smooth surface) and hold the saddle against a block of 45 x 20mm wood to keep it square while sanding. Works every time.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 03:15 PM

These ideas are what I'm looking for, so thanks.

As I said, the D-18 is likely to go to Brook but I want to have a crack at it first.

I'll keep adding to this thread with how it's going. Go slow and check often will be my criteria.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 04:01 PM

At the moment I'm away from home,lookimg after a friend's home and dogs until he gets back next week.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 04:07 PM

I’m a bit confused. You’ve had two setups done in the past couple of weeks by respected techs, so what is it you’re not liking about the setup right now that you think you can improve on yourself?

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 16 Oct 25 - 05:56 PM

Well the setups I've had were good but they weren't quite there.

When I got the D-18 new, the action was perfect (for me). No matter where on the board or what chord, it would sound perfectly in tune.


Then I committed a cardinal sin: I messed with it without first measuring relief and 12th fret action, and it's never been the same since.

So that's what I'm trying to do, get it as close as I can to what it was, and I'm trying myself 'cos I've an idea when it'll 'feel' right.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 17 Oct 25 - 04:44 AM

But I've not had "Two setups done in the past couple of weeks", not even in my dreams :-D

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Oct 25 - 07:33 AM

OK, my bad - how about ‘recently’?

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 17 Oct 25 - 07:53 AM

Recently I have, yes. You asked me why, I've answered.

I also intend to have the.bridge slotted, the holes reamed and solid pins. That's a job for Steve.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 17 Oct 25 - 10:04 AM

So, I've mentioned to Steve that I want him to slot the bridge. He's done a LOT of work for me in the past and I respect the bloke.

He's of the opinion that, as long as the ball ends are properly seated in an unslotted bridge, there's no great advantage to be had by slotting. Hmmm, maybe I can see one.

In any event, I still intend to have it done.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 17 Oct 25 - 12:26 PM

Here's my thinking on bridge slotting:

It increases string break angle. Now, if I take that to a bluegrass banjo, players crank the tailpiece nose down to get the same effect. It creates a crisper, sharper tone 'cos more downward force is being applied to the bridge.

Bringing it back to acoustic guitar, the saddle is the banjo bridge

If break angle can affect one, why not the other??

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 17 Oct 25 - 05:30 PM

BWM,

Re: out chat in PMs earlier today. I'd rather not discuss in public the latest setup my D-18 had but, if you're still interested, I'd be happy to discuss it in a PM.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 18 Oct 25 - 04:02 AM

It’s fine being super critical with your set-up but how do you cope with climatic changes? A few weeks of snow tend to reduce humidity whereas a wet summer increases it. Set your instrument up for the perfect low action and, for part of the year, it’s likely to rattle and vice versa. For me? I have so many instruments with different actions and necks, I just get on with playing them.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 18 Oct 25 - 05:11 AM

Ray,

Well, if someone prefers "super low action", they're going to have to tinker with it more, or get someone else to.

Humidity-wise, I like to keep within factory recommendations (45-55% for Martin). I don't always succeed,but I always try to do that.

In winter I'll use an humidifier (if needed) and a dehumidifier in summer.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 18 Oct 25 - 05:45 AM

I also use a dampit for in-the-case use. I'd avoid Humidipaks myself as I've had them leak. To be fair, the new ones are claimed not to and that may be true but once bitten...

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 25 - 07:14 AM

Three winters ago, as an experiment, I tried PW humidipaks. I had seven out of fifteen humidipaks leak, two of them were leaking when I opened the brand-new box.

Expensive crap. Never, never again.

I’ve used Music Nomad Humitars for humidifying ever since - simple and reliable. In the summer, I use Wisedry desiccant packs in the cases to keep RH in range.

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Fred
Date: 18 Oct 25 - 08:07 AM

Stating the bleedin' obvious but you need an hygrometer as well. I favour cigar hygrometers that you can calibrate (sorry, mine are quite old and the boxes are long gone so I can't give a brand name) but any will do.

-F

Subject: RE: UK guitar luthier
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Oct 25 - 09:16 AM

Yep, I have an Oasis in-case hygrometer in each case (so five in total), and a ThermoPro room hygrometer in each of the two rooms I keep my guitars in. So I always have a handle on how things are no matter wher I have my guitars in their cases or out on stands.

A dried-out Martin 20+ years ago has made me very careful where RH is concerned. Fortunately there was no lasting damage to the guitar, and a few weeks in its case with a humidifier brought it back to good condition.

I’m always surprised how many owners of quality solid-wood guitars pay so little attention to proper humidification.