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Subject: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: GUEST,Tom Dowling Date: 16 Oct 00 - 10:28 PM Dear Mudcatters: I have always like the tune 'Buffalo Skinners', which I only know from the old Jim Kweskin and the Jug Band album ("Jug Band Music"). Does anyone know of any earlier traditional (possibly Celtic) tunes with the same underlying melody? It sure rolls nicely off the pennywhistle, and I wondered if the lyrics had been laid over an older tune. Thanks, Tom Dowling |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: GUEST,ddalton@johnstown.net Date: 16 Oct 00 - 10:47 PM John Renbourn did a version on the album Farro Annie which is comprised of traditional American tunes. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Art Thieme Date: 17 Oct 00 - 12:54 AM The song you ask about came after the earlier song from the Northern woods lumberjacks and camps called "Collie's Run-i-o". This had a rather poretty major key melody. Both "Buffalo Skinners" and "Collie's Run-i-o" are on a Library Of Congress record. "Buffalo Skinners" was done by the old man himself, JOHN LOMAX---who put out the first larger collection of cowboy songs as a book in 1910. (The first actual booklet of cowboy songs was issued by JACK THORP in 1908.) Jack Elliott got "B.S." from Woody Guthrie. I got it from Jack's singing and I sang it for around 40 years myself with the minor key version although Jack did show his audiences the pretty version once in a long while. I've heard a lot of Jim Kweskin over the years---much that was never issued commercially by him---but I've never heard him sing "Buffalo Skinners". What record was that on? Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Groucho Marxist (inactive) Date: 17 Oct 00 - 09:54 AM Art, I have a CD (that used to be two LPs) called "The Greatest Songs of Woody Guthrie." It includes Jim Kweskin (solo, not the Jug Band) doing "Buffalo Skinners." It's a collection of various artists doing Woody Guthrie songs. Most of the selections are taken from various Vanguard LPs from the 1960s. The tracks of Woody himself were liscenced from Folkways. Others on this collection include Woody himself, Cisco Houston, the Weavers, Odetta, Country Joe McDonald, Jack Elliott, and Joan Baez. Groucho |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Frankham Date: 17 Oct 00 - 10:47 AM There's a variant called "CAnaday-i-o" as well. Frank |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: richardw Date: 17 Oct 00 - 11:04 AM The Canadian group Tamarack does a minor version but slightly altered. The best, absolute best version, with more guts than any other version I have heard is by former Albertan Diamond Joe White, now living on Vancouver Island. He has recorded it a couple of times. If you like the song you have to hear Joe's version. Richard Wright |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Groucho Marxist (inactive) Date: 17 Oct 00 - 11:10 AM The best version that I ever heard was performed live, about 30 years ago, by Willie Dunn. Groucho |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Abby Sale Date: 17 Oct 00 - 02:24 PM A (believe it or not) brief excerpt from my notes on the song: The roots of "Buffalo Skinner" can be exactly date to 1853. Fannie H. Eckstorm & Mary W. Smyth in Minstrelsy of Maine; Houghton Mifflin; 1927 (republished by Gryphon Books, Ann Arbor; 1971) deals in some detail with "Canaday-I-O" on page 21 et seq. I note from this: First printing of any version was Shoemaker, 1919 as "The Jolly Lumbermen" (located at Colley's Run, PA.) [Assumedly the same song as "Colley's Run-I-O."] She finally acquired the first known complete Eastern text anywhere from the elderly Mrs. Annie Marston. (no date given... after 1923?.) This version clearly pre-dates "The Jolly Lumbermen." Rickaby published the North Dakota version, "Michigan-I-O" (with tune) in 1926 In January, 1914 Eckstorm heard "Buffalo Skinners" at a Lomax lecture & told him it was a later version of "Canaday-I-O." This was new information to Lomax. (However, Lomax apparently didn't tell Sandberg of the connection as it doesn't appear in Songbag.) In fact, it is not until Folk Song U.S.A. (1947) that the Lomaxes finally give full credit to "Canaday-I-O" as the source of "Buffalo Skinners." "Canaday-I-O" dates itself as the "fall of [18] fifty-three." Eckstorm: "This woods song is entirely unlike the sea song, also called 'Canada I O,' which was much sung in Maine, both in the woods and elsewhere, and was common in English broadsides and in early songbooks." Full details, including both text and tune for both the "old" and the "new" "Canaday I.O." Duncan Emrich, editing Library of Congress record #L28, Cowboy Songs, etc. as collected by John Lomax; (1952) gives a more extensive summary and introduces some new information and (finally) references. The record includes a field recording of "Colley's Run-I-O." He credits the roots as Maine & before that, England. "An original English love song, 'Caledonia,' appeared in print somewhere before 1800 in The Caledonian Garland (Boswell Chapbooks...) and this song was used as the base upon which was built the English sea song 'Canada I O,' which was printed in the Forget-me-not Songster." The Maine lumberjack, Ephraim Braley, probably read the Forget-me-not Songster. After a stint of lumberjacking in Canada in 1853, he composed "Canada I O." In Maine, the song existed in oral tradition only (until printed by Eckstorm) but the versions that erupted out to Pennsylvania, Michigan, Texas, etc. became well-known and were printed. He credits Eckstorm's 1933 article for most of the historical background. Finally, Emrich prints the first and last stanzas of the songs from both the Forget-me-not Songster (now calling it a "love song of the sea") and Braley's "Canada I O." "Caledoni-o" ("the love song") is in Greig~Duncan. The only link I haven't been able to fill is common tunes for the English version of "Canadee-I-O." Of course Nic Jones does a superb job on Penguin Eggs but there is, and he has, no record of his tune's origin. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Art Thieme Date: 17 Oct 00 - 08:50 PM Abby, That's great. I can sing 'em but you sure do got the info. I'se gonna copy this thread. Art |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Ely Date: 18 Oct 00 - 03:17 PM [Sidenote] I have a recording somewhere of a song about the Monitor and the Merrimack (American Civil War era battleships) set to the same tune. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: Art Thieme Date: 18 Oct 00 - 11:52 PM Craig Johnson's fine song, "A North Country Tragedy" is also set to this tune. Art |
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Subject: RE: Thanks to all of you Buffalo Skinners and Mudc From: GUEST,Tom Dowling Date: 19 Oct 00 - 12:50 AM My thanks to all of you fine folks who responded to the Buffalo Skinners inquiry. For Mr. Art Thieme, who asked which Kweskin ablum the song was on, as I recall, it was one the "Jug Band Music" Album, which also had on it "Ukelele Lady" "Make me a Pallet on Your Floor" "Eight More Miles ot Louisville" and Maria Mauldar's version of "I'm a Woman". In fairness to the Jug Band, these recollections go back to the 1960's and may be a bit skewed. This sure is a grat website!!! |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: GUEST,GUEST,Raymond Wong Date: 19 Oct 00 - 04:24 PM Arlo Guthrie also did it on 'One Night'. Both this and 'Last night I had the strangest dream' are my favorites from this CD. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: L R Mole Date: 20 Oct 00 - 02:30 PM Clamzo, me boys, clamzo. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: BUFFALO SKINNERS - Origins, Anyone? From: GUEST Date: 02 Nov 00 - 03:49 PM What are the origins of the minor-key melody to which "Buffalo Skinners" is sometimes sung ? |
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Subject: Origins: Buffalo Skinners From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Nov 20 - 02:49 PM Traditional Ballad Index entry: Buffalo Skinners, The [Laws B10a]DESCRIPTION: A promoter named (Crego) hires a group of men to skin buffalo. He consistently cheats and mistreats them. Eventually they kill himAUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1910 KEYWORDS: work homicide boss revenge FOUND IN: US(MW,So) REFERENCES (23 citations): Laws B10a, "The Buffalo Skinners" Leach-TheBalladBook, pp. 773-775, "Canaday I. O. (The Buffalo Skinners)" (2 texts, but only the first goes with this piece; the other belongs with "Canaday I-O" [Laws C17]) Leach-HeritageBookOfBallads, pp. 170-172, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text) Beck-LoreOfTheLumberCamps 6, "The Buffalo Song" (1 text) Friedman-Viking/PenguinBookOfFolkBallads, p. 429, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text) Grigson-PenguinBookOfBallads 110, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text) Sandburg-TheAmericanSongbag, pp. 270-272, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text, 1 tune) Thorp/Fife-SongsOfTheCowboys XV, pp. 195-218 (31-33), "Buffalo Range" (6 texts, 2 tunes, though the "B" text is "Boggy Creek," C and D appear unrelated, and E is "Canada-I-O") Larkin-SingingCowboy, pp. 91-94, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text, 1 tune) Moore/Moore-BalladsAndFolkSongsOfTheSouthwest 139, "Buffalo Skinners" (1 text, 1 tune) Abernethy-SinginTexas, pp. 5-6, "The Buffalo Hunters" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax/Lomax-FolkSongUSA 52, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text, 1 tune) Lomax/Lomax-AmericanBalladsAndFolkSongs, pp. 390-392, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text, 1 tune) Brown/Schinhan-FrankCBrownCollectionNCFolklore4 335, "The Range of the Buffalo" (1 fragment, 1 tune, sung by none other than J. A. Lomax) Botkin-TreasuryOfAmericanFolklore, pp. 854-855, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text, 1 tune) Pound-AmericanBalladsAndSongs, 84, pp. 181-183, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text) Lingenfelter/Dwyer/Cohen-SongsOfAmericanWest, pp. 410-411, "The Range of the Buffalo" (1 text, 1 tune) ArkansasWoodchopper, pp. 23-24, "The Range of the Buffalo" (1 text, 1 tune, with the murder omitted but a yodel added) Cohen-AmericanFolkSongsARegionalEncyclopedia2, pp. 520-521, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text plus excerpts from Canaday-I-O) Darling-NewAmericanSongster, pp. 169-170, "The Buffalo Skinners" (1 text) Seeger-AmericanFavoriteBallads, p. 63, "Buffalo Skinners" (1 text, 1 tune) Silber/Silber-FolksingersWordbook, p. 110, "Buffalo Skinners" (1 text) DT 377, BUFFSKIN* BUFFSKI2 Roud #634 RECORDINGS: Bill Bender, The Happy Cowboy, "Buffalo Skinners" (Asch 410-3 [as "Buffalo Skinner"]/Stinson 410-3/Varsity 5144, n.d., rec. 1939) Woody Guthrie, "Buffalo Skinners" (on Struggle1, Struggle2, CowFolkCD1) John A. Lomax, "Buffalo Skinners" (AFS, 1940s; on LC28) Pete Seeger, "Buffalo Skinners" (on PeteSeeger13, AmHist1) CROSS-REFERENCES: cf. "Boggy Creek" [Laws B10b] cf. "The Trail to Mexico [Laws B13]" (a few overlapping lyrics) cf. "Canaday-I-O, Michigan-I-O, Colley's Run I-O" [Laws C17] cf. "Shanty Teamster's Marseillaise" (plot) cf. "Way Out in Idaho (I)" (lyrics, plot) File: LB10A Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2024 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Buffalo Skinners From: GUEST,tom/oregon Date: 04 May 22 - 08:51 PM I sing this song on my banjo in the key of Bm out of D tuning which is the same as standard G tuning but lowered down with Minstrel Nylgut strings. In the middle I throw in the fiddle tune "Buffalo Hunters" which syncs well as a break with Buffalo Skinners. It is supposed to be the same melody as "Hills Of Mexico (which I also sing with the banjo) so what's the relation? Which came first? Early in the BHO history a husband/wife team did a great version where she does the singing but I've never found it since. Where did it go? |
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Subject: ADD Version: Buffalo Skinners (Woody Guthrie) From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Sep 24 - 03:51 PM The version attributed to Woody Guthrie is almost the same as the version in the Digital Tradition, but there are some differences. BUFFALO SKINNERS (Words and Music by Woody Guthrie) Contact Publisher - The Bicycle Music Company/Concord Music Come all you old time cowboys and listen to my song But please do not grow weary I'll not detain you long It's concerning some wild cowboys who did agree to go To spend one summer pleasantly of the trail of the buffalo. I found myself in Griffin in the spring of eighty three When a well known famous drover come walking up to me Says "How do you do young fellow? And how would you like to go And spend one summer pleasantly on the trail of the buffalo?" I being out of work right then to the drover I did say "Going out on the buffalo road depends upon your pay If you pay good wages and transportation to and fro, I thinks to myself I'll go with you to the hunt of the buffalo." "Of course I'll pay good wages and transportation too If you agree to work for me until the season's through But if you do get homesick and try to run away You'll starve to death out on the trail and also lose your pay." With all his flattering talking he signed up quite a train Some ten or twelve in number strong able bodied men Until we crossed old Boggy Creek in old New Mexico. And there our pleasures ended and our troubles all begun A lightning storm it hit us and it made the buffalo run We got all full of stickers from the cactus that did grow And the outlaws watched to pick us off in the hills of Mexico. Our working season ended and the drover would not pay "You et and drunk too much and so you're all in debt to me!" But the cowboys never had heard of such a thing as bankrupt law So we left that drover's bones to bleach on the plains of buffalo. © Copyright 1956 (renewed), 1962 (renewed) by the The Bicycle Music Company/Concord Music Source: https://www.woodyguthrie.org/Lyrics/Buffalo_Skinners.htm |
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Subject: Version: Buffalo Skinners From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Sep 24 - 04:38 PM
DT #377 Laws B10 @cowboy @work @murder filename[ BUFFSKI2 JN apr96 It's hard to tell where the Digital Tradition lyrics came from. Of the versions I reviewed, the closed was the recording by Cisco Houston. I posted my transcription of his recording next to the DT lyrics above. Differences are in italics. Note that the Woody Guthrie version is very similar. |
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Subject: ADD Version: Buffalo Skinners (from Lomax) From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Sep 24 - 05:01 PM BUFFALO SKINNERS (from Lomax) (In honor of Miss Dora Kittredge) Come all you jolly cowboys and listen to my song, There are not many verses, it will not detain you long; It’s concerning some young fellows who did agree to go And spend one summer pleasantly on the range of the buffalo. It happened in Jacksboro in the spring of seventy-three, A man by the name of Crego came stepping up to me, Saying, “How do you do, young fellow, and how would you like to go And spend one summer pleasantly on the range of the buffalo?” “It’s me being out of employment,” this to Crego I did say, “This going out on the buffalo range depends upon the pay. But if you will pay good wages and transportation too, I think, sir, I will go with you to the range of the buffalo.” “Yes, I will pay good wages, give transportation too, Provided you will go with me and stay the summer through; But if you should grow homesick, come back to Jacksboro, I won’t pay transportation from the range of the buffalo.” It’s now our outfit was complete—seven able-bodied men, With navy six and needle gun—our troubles did begin; Our way it was a pleasant one, the route we had to go, Until we crossed Pease River on the range of the buffalo. It’s now we’ve crossed Pease River, our troubles have begun. The first damned tail I went to rip, Christ! how I cut my thumb! While skinning the damned old stinkers our lives wasn’t a show, For the Indians watched to pick us off while skinning the buffalo. He fed us on such sorry chuck I wished myself most dead, It was old jerked beef, croton coffee, and sour bread. Pease River’s salty as hell fire, the water I could never go— Oh, God! I wished I’d never come to the range of the buffalo. Our meat it was buffalo rump and iron wedge bread, And all we had to sleep on was a buffalo robe for a bed; The fleas and graybacks worked on us, oh, boys, it was not slow, I’ll tell you there’s no worse hell on earth than the range of the buffalo. Our hearts were cased with buffalo hocks, our souls were cased with steel, And the hardships of that summer would nearly make us reel, While skinning the damned old stinkers, our lives they had no show, For the Indians waited to pick us off on the hills of Mexico. The season being near over, old Crego he did say The crowd had been extravagant, was in debt to him that day. We coaxed him and we begged him, and still it was no go— We left his damned old bones to bleach on the range of the buffalo. Oh, it’s now we’ve crossed Pease River and homeward we are bound, No more in that hell-fired country shall ever we be found. Go home to our wives and sweethearts, tell others not to go, For God’s forsaken the buffalo range and the damned old buffalo. Source: American Ballads and Folk Songs, by John A. Lomax and Alan Lomax (New York: The MacMillan Company, 1934) pp 390-392 Below is the version John A. Lomax included in his Cowboy Songs (Sturgis & Walton Co., 1910, 1916), pages 158-161 BUFFALO SKINNERS (from Lomax) Come all you jolly fellows and listen to my song, There are not many verses, it will not detain you long; It’s concerning some young fellows who did agree to go And spend one summer pleasantly on the range of the buffalo. It happened in Jacksboro in the spring of seventy-three, A man by the name of Crego came stepping up to me, Saying, “How do you do, young fellow, and how would you like to go And spend one summer pleasantly on the range of the buffalo?” “It’s me being out of employment,” this to Crego I did say, “This going out on the buffalo range depends upon the pay. But if you will pay good wages and transportation too, I think, sir, I will go with you to the range of the buffalo.” “Yes, I will pay good wages, give transportation too, Provided you will go with me and stay the summer through; But if you should grow homesick, come back to Jacksboro, I won’t pay transportation from the range of the buffalo.” It’s now our outfit was complete—seven able-bodied men, With navy six and needle gun—our troubles did begin; Our way it was a pleasant one, the route we had to go, Until we crossed Pease River on the range of the buffalo. It’s now we’ve crossed Pease River, our troubles have begun. The first damned tail I went to rip, Christ! how I cut my thumb! While skinning the damned old stinkers our lives wasn’t a show, For the Indians watched to pick us off while skinning the buffalo. He fed us on such sorry chuck I wished myself most dead, It was old jerked beef, croton coffee, and sour bread. Pease River’s as salty as hell fire, the water I could never go— Oh, God! I wished I’d never come to the range of the buffalo. Our meat it was buffalo rump and iron wedge bread, And all we had to sleep on was a buffalo robe for a bed; The fleas and gray-backs worked on us, oh, boys, it was not slow, I’ll tell you there’s no worse hell on earth than the range of the buffalo. Our hearts were cased with buffalo hocks, our souls were cased with steel, And the hardships of that summer would nearly make us reel, While skinning the damned old stinkers, our lives they had no show, For the Indians waited to pick us off on the hills of Mexico. The season being near over, old Crego he did say The crowd had been extravagant, was in debt to him that day. We coaxed him and we begged him, and still it was no go— We left old Crego's bones to bleach on the range of the buffalo. Oh, it’s now we’ve crossed Pease River and homeward we are bound, No more in that hell-fired country shall ever we be found. Go home to our wives and sweethearts, tell others not to go, For God’s forsaken the buffalo range and the damned old buffalo. This 1910/1916 version is almost the same as the Lomax 1938 version. I've put the differences in italics. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Buffalo Skinners From: Lighter Date: 21 Sep 24 - 09:27 AM N. "Jack" Thorp included the song in"Songs of the Cowboys" (1908). Another 1908 text appeared in an Arizona newspaper, with the comment that it was already old. Will post when I have time. Juergen Kloss has written an excellent study of the song: https://www.justanothertune.com/html/buffaloskinners.html |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Buffalo Skinners From: pattyClink Date: 21 Sep 24 - 09:45 AM So why was Woody Guthrie allowed to claim (and renew) copyright on this song? I know sometimes folk singers would copyright their arrangements of trad songs to preserve some income from their work, but to just flat out say 'by' Woody Guthrie seems a bit bold and wrong. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Buffalo Skinners From: gillymor Date: 21 Sep 24 - 10:05 AM My favorite version was by the late Sid Selvidge, off of Twice Told Tales. I can't find a recording to link to but I think his lyrics were close to Rambling Jack's version. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Buffalo Skinners From: GUEST,Sean O'Shea Date: 22 Sep 24 - 12:57 PM It's a different song, but immensely good, particularly with regard to the fiddle playing. BUFFALO SKINNERS by BIG COUNTRY with Bobby Valentino,live version on Youtube. |
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Subject: ADDPOP: Buffalo Skinners (from Big Country) From: Joe Offer Date: 22 Sep 24 - 04:36 PM Here are the lyrics (uncorrected) of "Buffalo Skinners," as recorded by Big Country. I don't know the name of the songwriter. "Buffalo Skinners" Out beyond the river where you and I would ride We would skin the buffalo, the last ones left alive But once again it passed me by, I know it always will So now I spend my Sunday standing still Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right And somewhere she is calling out on a scarlet plain But I no longer hear her, I grew out of those games I never skinned a buffalo, I never even killed That's why I spend my Sunday standing still Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right Sure we could have We could have got it right Source: https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/bigcountry/buffaloskinners.html |
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