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BS: smoking in uk pubs
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,Bruce Michael Baillie Date: 26 Apr 07 - 07:33 AM I agree with George P. on this one, whilst agreeing that smoking is a dangerous pastime it always makes me wonder if the danger has been exaggerated by various health fascists who have an axe to grind? Why is it some people die from smoking and others don't? my own grandfather lived to the age of 87 after smoking Woodbines for 70 years. (and I mean smoking! he used to stick one in his mouth, light it and let it burn down to within a 10mm of his lips and then light up another!) It seems to me that there are a lot more factors to be taken into consideration than we know of at the present. ...Now I've lit the blue touch paper I'll stand back and wait for the next health fascist rant from someone! |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Apr 07 - 08:06 AM GUESTantiqueerian, please go peddle your bigotry elsewhere. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Bee Date: 26 Apr 07 - 08:18 AM BruceMB, a medical biologist once explained this a little. There is always the possibility of some normal cells becoming cancerous, which means they start multiplying with no regard to proper function. These are the cells cancer treatments try to kill. With smoking, or any other cancer promoting substance, the chances of cells becoming cancerous rises. Some people are also more prone to having cells become cancerous (sometimes specific organs, thus genetic determinants in breast cancer, for example). Some people are less prone to having cells become cancerous, and you may add to that the luck of the draw: none of your grandfather's cells happened to become cancerous, due to good genes and the laws of chance. As to the other deletorious effects of smoking, like respiratory ailments, they are real enough. I've seen a full-on asthma attack occur in a woman too polite to tell the visiting smoker in her own home to butt out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Apr 07 - 08:19 AM True, BMB, some die, some don't. My grandmother smoked 50 a day for most of her life, and if it was responsible for her death, it took its bloody time. She was ninety six. But the figures do show that on balance it's not healthy. As far as I'm concerned, it's up to the individual, whether or not to take the risk to his/her own life. I have, for a number of years tried to ensure that I did not make that choice for others, by going outside to smoke, a fairly pointless exercise if you are one of twenty and the other nineteen don't join you, which is why I am strongly in favour of the ban. It ENSURES a clean atmosphere for those who do not want to smoke by proxy. As I said earlier, I recently gave up smoking, so it's easy for me, but I was in favour of a ban long before I even considered quitting. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Apr 07 - 09:19 AM I'm sure if I wanted to smoke I'd be happy enough to pop out for a fag with my mates in the street outside and then back inside to carry on what I'd been doing before, rather than slope off to some strange place which had spent thousands on a plush outside area. More often than not pubs already have pub gardens anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Mr Happy Date: 26 Apr 07 - 10:31 AM http://www.thesmokezone.co.uk/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Apr 07 - 10:49 AM What will be interesting to watch is the use that will be made of these outside facilities, where provided. I remember years ago, when trains had smokers' compartments, I climbed into one which was occupied by a family of four. I settled in and lit up, and the female went berserk. I was treated to a five minute torrent of abuse, and when I pointed out that the carriage was for smokers, she responded with more of the same, and went off to look for the guard (conductor in the USA). He duly arrived on the scene, pointed at the smoking sign and said "Live with it, or move to a non smoker". I predict some of that on warm summer evenings. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Mr Happy Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:30 AM Was at a session in Pontblyddyn, Wales a coupla weeks ago. Coming from England [Chester], I'd forgotten about the no-smoke rule already operating in Cymru, but was most pleasantly surprised to see the splendid roofed pergola with picnic tables & floral arrangements set out on the patio just outside the lounge. Still feeling the need for an occasional puff between tunes, I popped out to the facilities & met up with several other 'pariahs'. Most pleasant experience to have unusual opportunity to banter with different folks. If the English pubs adopt similar arrangements, the everyone should be happy |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,ib48 Date: 26 Apr 07 - 11:57 AM I have a serious blood problem that has probably been caused,so i have been told,by passive smoking.I have been performing in pubs and clubs for thirty years,so i personally cant wait until the filthy habit is kept away from me.From my experience,most smokers are inconsiderate gits.I dont mind you killing yourself in private,just dont take us with you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Apr 07 - 01:43 PM I think Mr Happy has it right there - we could find ourselves with a bunch of extra places to drink and even make music. I've nothing against people smoking if it doesn't get up my nose excessively. Outdoors it keeps off the midges. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,Alan Date: 26 Apr 07 - 02:43 PM You tend to find the type who smoked in bars gave us the best music and spent the most money. We are told it will make bars "family friendly" Translated means, kids running wild around the bar, smiling father may strecth to a swift half. Mum will have a tonic water and four salads for lunch. Let´s see the till rolls at the end of each month ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:20 PM You tend to find the type who smoked in bars gave us the best music Basically I'd say that's bollocks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Apr 07 - 05:47 PM Even I wouldn't agree to that, Guest Alan. My voice, and hence my performance quality has definitely improved since quitting, and that's after only five months. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,James Date: 11 May 07 - 08:00 PM A smoking ban in UK pubs and clubs is not the way forward.People choose to smoke. The government has used scaremongery to greatly exaggerated the dangers of secondhand smoke. On the one hand everyone should have the right to breath clean air but on the other forcing smokers to smoke outside is in breach of their human rights. Cigarettes and tobacco is a perfectly legal vice, their is no real scientific evidence that proves a direct link between secondhand smoke and endangering health. Go to WWW.FREEDOM2CHOOSE.CO.UK and register your opposition to this unfair treatment of smokers! EMAIL: LORAINE@FREEDOM2CHOOSE.CO.UK |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,The Smoky Bar Kid Date: 11 May 07 - 10:10 PM "forcing smokers to smoke outside" "Cigarettes and tobacco is a perfectly legal vice" yeah.. you're right.. the new laws still don't go far enough to protect the rest of us ! you do seem like the kind of selfish idiot [in denial!?] I often see sat on public benches around the shops in town.. lit fag in mouth, while cradling/feeding babies and toddlers.. ps.. "EMAIL: LORAINE@FREEDOM2CHOOSE.CO.UK" thanks.. I most certainly will !!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,Duplin County Smoker Date: 12 May 07 - 01:05 AM The theory that cigarette smoke kills non-smokers was dreamt up 30 years ago by anti-smoking activists. It's complete rubbish.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Rog Peek Date: 12 May 07 - 03:11 AM If someone else has posted this verse here, then apologies: Cigarettes are a blight on the whole human race A man is a monkey with one in his face; Take warning dear friend, take warning dear brother There's fire on one end, and a fool on the other. What a pleasure it is when we are in Ireland to be able to go into any bar and not be choked with smoke, roll on July! |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 May 07 - 07:03 AM The other day I was in a crowded bar, reeking of smoke - I looked around. There were only two people actually smoking. About 40 having to breath it in. Roll on July. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Captain Ginger Date: 12 May 07 - 05:43 PM On the one hand everyone should have the right to breath clean air but on the other forcing smokers to smoke outside is in breach of their human rights. So, for me the first hand wins hands down. If people want to smoke, let them sit outside and shiver. They may have a right to kill themselves, but they surely have no right to inflict their disgusting filth on other people. And I'd love to see who funded the very slick 'freedom2choose' website. Let me see - probably not an oncologist. No, It wouldn't be a tobacco industry lobbyist, by any chance? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: skipy Date: 12 May 07 - 06:30 PM O/K who shall we attack next, that may harm others? People who drink drive & kill others, we are not very good at that. People who have no insurance, ditto People who drive without a licence, ditto. People who drive while disqualifeid, ditto. People who take drugs, ditto. People who sell drugs, ditto. People who "TWOK", ditto. People who carry knives, ditto. Poeple who carry guns, ditto. People who make bombs, ditto. people who plant bombs, ditto. People who deal in hatred, ditto. No, lets attack the smoker! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 12 May 07 - 06:47 PM Skipy, you frighten me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: skipy Date: 12 May 07 - 06:52 PM Tumesmith, I frighten me too! I am sick to F***in death of trying to make a reasonable differance to be constantly constrained for being average, or being in the groups that can be controlled. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 May 07 - 05:27 AM Virtually all those things you mentioned are already illegal, aren't they skipy? So what is your point? |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,JTT Date: 13 May 07 - 05:32 AM I don't see why a smoker's desire to smoke should supersede a working man's need to be free of the risk of lung cancer and heart disease. Long and interesting article here: Irish Pubs Under Smoke-free Law in Ireland Show 91% Lower Indoor Air Pollution T A survey of air pollution levels in "Irish pubs" around the world has found that indoor air pollution in authentic Irish pubs in Ireland, where a smoke-free law has been in effect for two years, is 91 percent lower than in "Irish pubs" located in other countries and cities where smoke-free laws do not apply. Researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH), Roswell Park Cancer Institute and health authorities in Ireland collaborated on the project that assessed air samples from 128 "Irish pubs" in 15 countries in North America, Europe, Australia and Asia. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 May 07 - 11:51 AM I'd actually have preferred a situation in which it was possible to have smoking rooms available, where people who don't mind a smoky atmosphere, or who wish to smoke, could take their drinks and light up and inhale, with no staff being involved. I'm sure that if smokers had taken the lead in calling for this, and had combined it with campaigning actively for the rights of their fellow drinkers not to be forced to put up with smoky bars, something like this could have been agreed. But instead they resisted the whole idea of a ban on unrestricted smoking, and these kind of ideas only came up as a last minute grudging compromise. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Dave the Gnome Date: 15 May 07 - 05:29 AM As an ex-smoker with, surprisingly, no problem with people smoking I do find it unfair that there is no-where for smokers to go to indulge their habit in the warm and dry. It was equaly unfair that us non-smokers had no choice at all if we wanted to go in pubs for all those years and I am sure most people would have been quite happy with a compromise of ensuring that the correct percentage of smokers and no-smokers were catered for. The complete ban that come in to place on The first of July has been helped on it's way by the nonsensical ramblings like those above who feel that the right to smoke takes some sort of precidence over all and sundry. If the pro-lobby had been a little more caring of other people maybe we would not be in this situation now? And skipy - WTF are you on? As someone said most, if not all, the things you mention are already illegal. Are you suggesting that the government should not try to improve the quality of life for the majority of people until all other criminal activities stop? Ever thought of applying that reason to everyting? Maybe we should never feed anyone because some people don't eat their food? Perhaps all invention and innovation should be banned because some things have caused harm? Maybe we should never pass any new laws in case someone breaks them? I'll have a pint of whatever it is you are drinking:-) Cheers Dave Cheers Dave |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Folkiedave Date: 15 May 07 - 06:26 AM I have just spent successive weekends in Edinburgh (smoke free bars) and London (which still allows smoking in pubs for another month or two). Drinking in Edinburgh was a pleasant experience and the Scots - despite their climate seem to have got used to standing outside if they smoke. The three London pubs I used were awful. One had a no smoking sign with someone stood underneath it smoking. The faster this law is enforced the better for the non-smokers amongst us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 May 07 - 11:24 AM In Victorian times people used to use smoking rooms, and wear smoking jackets and smoking caps, and there was no assumption that smoking in all circumstances was an acceptable thing to do. The real trouble came in when cigarettes took over from pipes and cigars, which involved an assumption that smoking was a fitting accompaniment to other activities, rather than an activity in itself which involved a kind of withdrawal to a special setting. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: TRUBRIT Date: 17 May 07 - 10:47 PM I saw a comment first time around that I can't see this time -- something on the lines of...'can you believe the lunatic that wants to ban smoking in the streets in CA..?' Speaking personally, I am that lunatic.......I believe the only place smoking should be legal is in your own home........; if you want to kill yourself, be my guest but don't take me and / or mine with you. I hate seeing some one on the street smoking knowing that when I pass them I will get a lungful of poison.. And then there are the drycleaning bills for having anything worn in the neighborhood of a smoker cleaned........ Plus having lost a dad and a blood uncle to cancer, it does seem a strange choice of activity to me .... to smoke, or not to smoke? No brainer......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Jim Lad Date: 18 May 07 - 03:00 AM Welcome to the new age. I've been smoking since I was 13 and have absolutely no problem with going outside for a puff. I don't smoke in the house either. I'm not sure if I even know anyone who still smokes in the house. As for smoking rooms. You can keep them. They mostly stink. One of the nice things is that I smoke 50% less in the wintertime and very rarely do I smoke a whole cigarette in one go except when I'm alone in my own vehicle. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Backwoodsman Date: 18 May 07 - 05:34 AM "One of the nice things is that I smoke 50% less in the wintertime and very rarely do I smoke a whole cigarette in one go except when I'm alone in my own vehicle." Why bother at all then Jim? Seems you're already well down the road to packing it up, why not go the whole hog, save your clothes, your money and your health, and do the rest of us a favour? :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: guitar Date: 18 May 07 - 07:38 AM I'm a non smoker, and I agree with you, it's sounds daft, but then again I don't to breath in second hand smoke and have it blown across my food, I mean you wouldn't want to eat your dinner in the toilet. mind you they say that 1,000 people die through sencond hand smoke either a month or a year. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Jim Lad Date: 18 May 07 - 12:15 PM "Why bother at all then Jim? Seems you're already well down the road to packing it up, why not go the whole hog, save your clothes, your money and your health, and do the rest of us a favour? :-)" Fair enough.... 1) I'm addicted. Common sense means nothing in this situation. 2) They got me when I was very young. I don't remember what it's like without them. 3) I rarely smoke my clothes. 4) "and do the rest of us a favour" I never smoke within the vicinity of children. Try to step out of pathways and such so that no-one has to smell it & avoid people after I smoke. I'm as healthy as a horse and probably have a clearer set of lungs than you would expect. Haven't needed a doctor since I was a child and haven't spent one single penny of the taxpayers money on my health because of it. The Government however, has made more from my habit than the tobacco companies. I'd be happy if it was illegal. I smoke 10 cigarettes per day for about five or six months of the year and 20 per day for the rest. That, I'm sad to say, is a far, far cry from quitting. Check out http://jimbrannigan.com you'll find links to my music there. If you can HONESTLY tell from my singing, that I smoke, I'll quit before the next album. Cheers. Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Rog Peek Date: 18 May 07 - 12:33 PM You sound like a considerate smoker Jim Lad. In my experience, a rare bread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 May 07 - 12:45 PM If people want to smoke tobacco or anything else, that's their business, so long as they don't blow the smoke in my direction in a confined space, if it's tobacco. Prohibitionists who want to take it further than that, and ban the practice in open spaces get up my nose just as much as inconsiderate smokers do. Outdoors, having a smoker around can in fact be a useful way of keeping off the midges. I have no doubt that when the long overdue ban inside pubs come into force I'm going to find myself choosing to have my drink in the outside smoker's area. (I don't think there's any problem about secondary non-smoking.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Jim Lad Date: 18 May 07 - 12:45 PM I tried quitting for the first time at 40. Until then, I didn't know that it stunk (even outside). I only have one smoking friend and he's much the same as myself. The new restrictions have brought with them, a new awareness. Adios. Hack! Splutter! Jim |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 18 May 07 - 01:06 PM I have no doubt that when the long overdue ban inside pubs come into force I'm going to find myself choosing to have my drink in the outside smoker's area. I meant, from time to time, depending on the company. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Jean(eanjay) Date: 18 May 07 - 01:13 PM I love the midges bit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Rog Peek Date: 18 May 07 - 02:33 PM Like you Jim Lad, I started smoking when I was about 13, and by the time I was 30 I was on around 40 to 50 a day. I was well hooked, and had tried every which way to give up. I would describe myself as a worried smoker, frequently worried about what it was doing to my health. The more I worried, the more I smoked......the more I smoked the more I worried and so on. Illogical? Yes, but then I guess that's addiction for you. People who tell me it's not addictive, I say to them "Next time you're at a wedding you try and make it out of the church before the smokers." If I didn't have my last cigarette of the day, I would go through my pockets looking for dog ends (for you americans, those are cigarette butts)and if I couldn't find any, I'd be out on the streets looking for a cigarette machine. - Yes in those days, there were cigarette machines in the street and nobody rifled them, my how times have changed. I'm not a religeous person, but if I had a pain in my chest it was a case of "If it's not cancer God, I promise I'll give up tomorrow." When I did finally manage to give up, it was absolute hell. As a substitute I sucked menthol&eucalyptus sweets to the point where my mouth was full of ulcers. Then, I went on the Rinstead pastilles, well exceeding the recommended dosage. In the end, I kicked it for good, that was 30 years ago. What stopped me starting again? The thought that I never, never, wanted to go through that hell again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Jim Lad Date: 18 May 07 - 04:06 PM Rog Peek: Heck of a story. Well done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs! From: TRUBRIT Date: 18 May 07 - 09:25 PM Yes indeed!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 May 07 - 07:43 PM I've always been grateful that when it came to giving up smoking, I just stopped one day, and no problems. That wasn't will power, it's just that the weed affects different people in different ways. The thing is there's so much gets said and written about what hell it is to give it up, which is obviously true for some people, that I'm sure you have some smokers who are scared to give it up when in fact for them it might be relatively easy. Never assume it'll be that hard to do anything until you've tried and found it was that hard. That's actually a good rule in life for a lot of things. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 19 May 07 - 08:29 PM I smoked my last cigarette on 5th November 2006, having enrolled in the NHS quit smoking scheme. It seemed to me that there was little logic in trying to overcome a nicotine addiction by taking diminishing doses of nicotine, essentially what I had done in all previous attempts to quit by gradually cutting down to zero. I therefore demanded that, provided there were no cogent medical grounds for refusing, my doctor should prescribe Zyban, which contains no nicotine. He reluctantly agreed, on condition that I would stop and consult him if I experienced any side effects. I had no withdrawal symptoms during eight weeks on Zyban, and no problems whatever when the course came to an end, nor did I suffer any side effects. Putting this in perspective, I have tried to quit on numerous occasions in the past, and my wife has been forced, more than once, to ask me to continue smoking because I was impossible to live with. I cannot stress too strongly my recommendation that anyone wishing to quit should try Zyban. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: skipy Date: 19 May 07 - 08:31 PM MgofH, My point is the system will only go after the easy targets, the driver with an indicator bulb out, not the pisshead in a stolen car who has been banned several times but still drives. They will not go after the "pikies", they will not go for the drug dealers, no, just the easy targets who will turn up at court & pay. So now they will go after the smokers! This law has nothing to do with health, if you can bring down 2 or 3 pubs in every town, 5 or 10 in every city, just one in every village, just how much building land have you got accross the country for "new affordable housing" who is it for! work it out! Drink & smoking related problems are up in Ireland since the ban, they are going up in Scotland, don't leave it to me to cut & paste, google it! Just wait until we get get a "our folk club has closed due to the smoking ban, thread" Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: GUEST,wordy Date: 19 May 07 - 09:43 PM Skipy, dear boy, the rantings of an addict! If you quit and read the above posting a few months later you won't even recognise yourself. I know, I was you once 37 years ago. |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: skipy Date: 20 May 07 - 05:27 AM Wordy, you are missing the point, addict, YES, but I am not bleating about having to smoke outside, I have smoked outside for decades! I am bleating about choice! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Rog Peek Date: 20 May 07 - 05:44 AM Skipy While you're ranting about choice, perhaps you would like to rant a bit about all of those years non-smokers who wanted to drink in a pub, had no choice but to do it in a smoky room. Now it's our turn! |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Nigel Parsons Date: 20 May 07 - 12:17 PM There is another thread running about the UK laws for allowing children in pubs. Many pubs will only allow them in at 14+, or when eating a meal. Otherwise, if their parents want a drink at the pub, the family move out into the beer garden. This is a great move because childless adults do not necessarly want noisy boisterous children in the pub. (even adults who have managed to leave their children home look forward to a peaceful evening without children around) With the advent of the smoking ban the children (who currently aren't allowed to stay in the smoky bar) will have the smokers sent outside to join them! This makes sense?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: skipy Date: 20 May 07 - 12:19 PM Could not agree more! & alway have, most pubs have more than one room, I would never dream of lighting up in a non smoking room, so lounge non smoking, bar smoking! Easy, there is a pub a few villages away that works that way & it works very well. However I do know (straight from the landlord) that he is looking to get out as he fears the drop in trade will close the pub and he is the only pub in the village! He holds regular music sessions there with the local morris, so one of many music, song & dance pubs under threat. The "our club has closed because we lost the pub to the smoking ban" is lurking in the wings, very soon to "enter stage left" Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: smoking in uk pubs From: Shaneo Date: 20 May 07 - 12:49 PM Smoking will never be banned , they make too much money from tax sales. The same can be said for drink. As for buggery ,let the homosexual lovers answer that , there are a few here.[promoters of that act] disgusting |
