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BS: Counselors on same sex marriage
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Subject: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: TIA Date: 02 Mar 13 - 12:14 PM From Science Daily: "There is no valid scientific basis for denying same-sex couples the right to legal marriage, or to deprive them of considerable benefits of the institution, according to legal briefs filed with the U.S. Supreme Court by the American Psychological Association and other leading mental health associations." "The briefs cite empirical scientific evidence that demonstrate that "homosexuality is a normal expression of human sexuality, is generally not chosen and is highly resistant to change." Likewise, "there is no scientific basis for concluding that gay and lesbian parents are any less fit or capable than heterosexual parents, or that their children are any less psychologically healthy and well-adjusted," according to the briefs." "Joining APA in filing the Windsor and Perry briefs were: the American Academy of Pediatrics; American Medical Association; California Medical Association; American Psychiatric Association; American Psychoanalytic Association; and National Association of Social Workers. Also joining the Windsor brief were: the New York City and New York state chapters of the National Association of Social Workers and the New York State Psychological Association. Also joining the Perry brief were the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy; the California Chapter of NASW and the California Psychological Association." Science Daily |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 02 Mar 13 - 12:44 PM Not a single one with a political axe to grind. Just medical professionals and genuine Counsellors and Social workers, every one with a string of real qualifications. That about wraps up the argument. It's good to see! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Wesley S Date: 02 Mar 13 - 01:05 PM I'll get the popcorn! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 02 Mar 13 - 03:41 PM Case closed! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest form Sanity Date: 02 Mar 13 - 11:21 PM Yeah...i remember in the early to mid '70's, when the funding and grants were coming in, to most of those groups, and the tune was beginning to change. Don Firth even acknowledged that in the prop 8 thread. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 03 Mar 13 - 12:21 AM Lying as usual, Goofball. Find the specific post where I said that and post a link to it, or shut the hell up. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:04 AM ...and when I do...will YOU shut the fuck up??? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 03 Mar 13 - 05:44 AM ..while I was looking I found these tidbits: GfS: "For anyone's information ONLY.02% got that??..2/10,000, are born, with a gene that is claimed by 97% of homosexuals claim they are born with, that makes them 'unable' to be attracted to the opposite sex, and in fact, gives them the 'attributes' of being a female being trapped in a male body, and vice versa!!" Dinko Firth: "Since it may very well have a genetic component, that means that discrimination against folks with same-sex orientation is like discrimination against people with blue eyes, or different shaped eyes, or differently shaded skin. It is a civil rights issue." "Since it may very well have a genetic component...." ...How about establishing a little beyond, "it may very well".... GfS: "Don, As I posted in an earlier post, political pressure was applied to get the medical community, and its training, in the professions, to change homosexuality from a dysfunction, ..."P.S...Don, those pressures, I spoke of, on my prior post, just to clarify, were done in the mid seventies." ...and by the way, "..."There is no valid scientific basis for denying same-sex couples the right to legal marriage, or to deprive them of considerable benefits of the institution, according to legal briefs filed with the U.S. Supreme Court by the American Psychological Association and other leading mental health associations." "American Psychological Association and other leading mental health associations."..BEHAVIORAL!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Mar 13 - 06:34 AM ""GfS: "For anyone's information ONLY.02% got that??..2/10,000, are born, with a gene that is claimed by 97% of homosexuals claim they are born with, that makes them 'unable' to be attracted to the opposite sex, and in fact, gives them the 'attributes' of being a female being trapped in a male body, and vice versa!!" "" Good old Goofie! Straight in with both feet in his mouth, showing all and sundry that he doesn't know the difference between "homosexual" and "transexual" (""gives them the 'attributes' of being a female being trapped in a male body, and vice versa!!"") More evidence of the triumph of bigotry over knowledge! Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: DMcG Date: 03 Mar 13 - 07:54 AM I've nothing against same-sex marriage myself, but it seems a bit of a category error to look for scientific arguments for or against. For or against sexual activity, maybe, but 'marriage' is a social construct, not a scientific one, whether homo- or hetro- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Megan L Date: 03 Mar 13 - 08:55 AM same sex coitus the earliest form of birth control |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Mar 13 - 01:25 PM Hmm. I wonder if anal or oral sex might have got there first! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,TIA Date: 03 Mar 13 - 01:40 PM So, DMcG you would then agree that there is no *scientific* reason to deny marriage rights? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: DMcG Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:00 PM TIA, I have no problem with marriage rights at all, straight or gay. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: DMcG Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:24 PM But to flesh that out, there is no more a scientific reason for or against gay marriage than there is a musical one. It is a completely irrelevant mechanism for deciding the issue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Mar 13 - 02:32 PM ""GfS: "Don, As I posted in an earlier post, political pressure was applied to get the medical community, and its training, in the professions, to change homosexuality from a dysfunction, ..."P.S...Don, those pressures, I spoke of, on my prior post, just to clarify, were done in the mid seventies.""" That's the rather inconvenient thing about science. Because scientists are always willing to change their conclusions when new evidence suggests a need for such change, they do tend to leave bigots (who by definition ignore all that militates aginst their idee fixe) rather floundering in their wake. A lot of new evidence has surfaced in the nearly forty years since the mid 1970s and your information is well out of date. Knowledge, for instance, of DNA and genetics generally, is a quantum leap ahead of where it was back then, but you and your preferred sources of arrant nonsense haven't caught on, or caught up, and it is unlikely that you ever will. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 03 Mar 13 - 03:57 PM Goofball, what you're trying to say I said is so garbled and mush-mouthed, I can't figure out what you're trying to say I said, but whatever it is, it's bound to be a major distortion. You chronically try to twist what I say to suit your own purposes, but there are intelligent people on these threads who know right off what you're doing, That is, if they bother to read your crappola at all! I have stated my position on this issue and I have stated my reasons, scientific and social. My position is clear and well-known. So why don't you stop making a complete ass of yourself (actually, you're too late for that) by perpetually misquoting me? Or perhaps my writing is so far above your head that you don't understand what I'm saying. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 03 Mar 13 - 07:51 PM All through the Prop 8 thread I am citing bulletins from the American Psychiatric Association (Clicky #1) and several articles in Psychology Today (Clicky #2) and a number of other such authoritative, scientific sources. Goofball screamed and spit and kicked the wall and swore up and down these were not scientific, and had been prompted by the "political agenda of loony liberals" (!!). NOW, if I understand his rather opaque prose, he seems to be trying to claim that I "admitted" that these scientific sources are "politically biased!" Where in the hell did I say anything like THAT!?? And this—person—claims that he is a family counselor! ======= And then there is THIS most interesting article from Scientific American! Makes fascinating reading in the context of these threads on gay marriage and the motivation of those who oppose it. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 03 Mar 13 - 08:40 PM And while browsing some of these articles, I ran across THIS! A couple of people here are going to howl like they sat on a hot stove!! (Snicker snicker). Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: John P Date: 03 Mar 13 - 09:50 PM DMcG: But to flesh that out, there is no more a scientific reason for or against gay marriage than there is a musical one. It is a completely irrelevant mechanism for deciding the issue. The reason it's relevant is that two of the main reasons given for denying civil rights to homosexuals are that they have chosen to live that way and that their way of living is perverted. The scientific evidence presented by these groups shows that it is not a choice and that it is normal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: DMcG Date: 04 Mar 13 - 02:48 AM But, actually, even if it were entirely voluntary that has no relevance for whether civil rights should be granted. Civil rights are a matter of agreement, not scientific measurement. For example we don't avoid legislation about trading just because it is voluntary. I don't deny people often use arguments based on scientific observations in these matters, but that doesn't mean it is sensible to do so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: JohnInKansas Date: 04 Mar 13 - 03:02 PM I suspect a couple of people here would surely want everyone to see the YouTube posting of The Ultimate Anti-Gay Marriage Ad. Only about a minute and a half, the sponsorship notice at the end will be important for some, since they will want to find the organization to offer their support. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM Ever wondered who put up the funding for those 'studies'???? Obamacare was well funded, too.....so is the 'decision' about the pipeline!! I guess, Citizens United is only objectionable....conveniently!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Mar 13 - 07:55 PM Incoherent and ungrammatical as ever... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Mar 13 - 11:31 PM Are you pretty sure that 50+ professional/academic organizations with thousands+ members have been bought off by the extremely wealthy and influential homosexual lobby? God help your clients "counselor" (because somebody better do it!) Didja notice the quotes? I hope so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 05 Mar 13 - 12:23 AM Anything to keep a tenuous grip on his forlorn hope. He's incapable of grasping the concept of integrity. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Mar 13 - 03:45 AM Yeah...Nobody has a reason to 'fund' any other of the 'left's'(?) policies...like the NDAA, and drones, and Guantanamo, and Solyndra, and Afghanistan, and Citizens United, and the Patriot Act(btw, authored by Biden in '95-'96, BEFORE 911), and Obamacare....nobody who had anything to gain, by funding those wonderful blunders, never reaped a benefit, or made a dime!! Meanwhile, psychiatrists(especially) are going to back, something they can write a prescription for, and recommend drugs to alleviate symptomatic relief...whereas certain counselors tend to want to dig into the causes of those things....and then you've got the Bozos, who counsel, against known science and psychology, patting them on their heads, ...which understandable...but to promote a sexual practice as a civil rights issue, and turning it into a political policy, thinking it is of the same nature, as a man and a woman raising their own kids, and calling it 'marriage'?? Now just to call your attention to the obvious...(sorta when you can tell when it is built on an agenda)......these quasi-'studies'...report t5hat kids who are raised by homosexuals are 'just fine'...not too many bad side effects...right?.....and of course they've watched the progression of at least three generations, right??....BzzzzT...Wrong!!...At best, the 'study' is incomplete then, isn't it?? That's as silly as saying that the Holocaust had no psychological effects on Jewish kids, of the next generation..or two....but it did, and does. Now you can bury your heads in the sand, and stop up your ears, as not to consider those aspects...or even address them...because it might be a bit 'inconvenient' for your in depth 'caring'....but then, hey, are you really going to base your 'concerns' on bad science, and counseling for a 'trend' d'jour?? I'd say give it more OBJECTIVE, long view observation, before I'd issue 'results and findings'.....shit, those 'researchers' make more on writing those opinions, than a good author of a good book! Now if I was saying this to another counselor, who didn't cave in on the pressure, but stuck to what we REALLY know...we would totally understand....but being as I am not, I don't suspect you'd get it....nor do I feel a particular need to prove it. It is what it is. Now, that being said, you keep bugging me about being a counselor...well in fact I have done some...and very well when I do...but that was not the main reason I studied, as I've posted before...and I've got news for ya'....for all those who think that even the most 'sensitive and benevolent' counselors, who are so 'calm' and 're-assuring' have their own opinions and observations, rolling around in their heads, and even muse about it...or have any private 'dot connecting', that might sound 'out of YOUR perception, of what YOU think that we are about, have another thought coming! I'm not the one, who's head is coming from a political stance, and working my way down! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 05 Mar 13 - 04:26 AM Can anyone please translate what Alice the Goon just said, preferrably in English? Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,TIA Date: 05 Mar 13 - 10:24 AM "Counselor" has the truth, while the thousands and thousands of other counselors, and the peer-reviewed literature, are all wrong. And not just innocently wrong, but willfully wrong to advance the homosexual agenda. I think that's an accurate translation (although I did omit some...okay a lot of...verbosity) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: frogprince Date: 05 Mar 13 - 11:16 AM I would say TIA nailed it. I think it may work this way; it starts with gfs being spiritually open to a direct flow of musical inspiration that comes straight from God. Once that atunement is there, gfs has an exceptional,perhaps absolutely unique, ability to understand the very mind of God regarding everything, be it psychological, moral, political...absolutely everything. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Mar 13 - 12:05 PM Donald Duck: "... genuine Counsellors and Social workers, every one with a string of real qualific ..and no 'other interests' I mean with this kind of stuff, who would ever doubt them!! READ IT!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,TIA Date: 05 Mar 13 - 12:45 PM Already read it. I subscribe. And it has nothing to do with the OP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 05 Mar 13 - 01:22 PM ""Donald Duck: "..."" Do try to find an occasional adult response. I haven't heard that very original (NOT!) name calling since primary school. Now you are 60 years behind the times, you poor dozy sap. The world just passes you by in your soft warm Walter Mitty world, where you don't have to be the ineffectual nonentity you really are. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Mar 13 - 01:51 PM Donald: "Do try to find an occasional adult response. I haven't heard that very original (NOT!) name calling since primary school." What's the matter?...don't you proof read your own posts???????!!!???!!! GfS P.S...anything to call attention AWAY from the article, regarding the 'medical' lobbyists!! Ever notice, how the non-caring political phonies, want to 'close the case', rather than have anyone look TOO deep, into their plastic arguments?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Richard Bridge Date: 05 Mar 13 - 02:57 PM Fuck me this nutter counsels anyone? Is it any wonder the US murder rate is so high? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Mar 13 - 03:56 PM Now THAT is what I call a real response, addressing nothing! Join the collection of ducks! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 05 Mar 13 - 04:03 PM Madame Tussauds Wax Museum decided, for some reason best known to them, to do a wax figure of Goofball. Once finished, there was the problem of finding an appropriate place to put it. They couldn't put it next to George Washington. Why? Because George Washington couldn't tell a lie. They almost decided to put it next to Richard M. Nixon, because Nixon couldn't tell the truth. The next possibility was to put it next to George. W. Bush, because Bush couldn't tell the difference. They almost decided to put it next to Christopher Columbus, because Columbus thought he knew where he was going, when he got there he didn't know where it was, and when he got back, he didn't know where he had been. The decision is still up in the air. They're trying to decide whether to put him next to Columbus—or Bozo the Clown. And funniest thing of all: they gave both Goofus and the wax dummy I.Q. tests. And the wax dummy had a higher I.Q. than Goofus. Well, that was predictable. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Mar 13 - 05:37 PM ...and your 'likeness' was also found at Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum...in the bottom of the white bowl in the restroom. Are you happy, now? By the way, Hugo Chavez just died...(speaking of other pieces of shit!). GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Richard Bridge Date: 05 Mar 13 - 06:09 PM Chavez hero, FFS wanking idiot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 05 Mar 13 - 06:15 PM That's the same phenomenon a Rorschach test is based on, "Counselor," and of course it wasn't an image of me, it was your own interpetation of a meaningless pattern. Wishful thinking on your part, perhaps, but no significance in the world of the sane. Are you given to hallucinations often? I'd have that seen to if I were you. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Mar 13 - 07:16 PM Now of course, some of you may think I'm being a bit 'harsh' when it comes to this topic...but then, really...how would you counsel someone, based on a 'science' that isn't even proven???..Pat them on the head, and tell them it's all Okay...based on their 'feelings'??..and supported by politics, that has been promoting unproven premises??? Sorry..but it is people such as yourselves that has made this a topic blown way out of proportion..because you're running with a ball, that has NO scientific merit. At best, the studies conclude with phrases like, 'studies MAY SUGGEST' or 'indicates the possibility' etc etc...and you think it's not arrogant to console people based on THAT???? Nope, I'd rather stick to what is known, than trying to experiment on people with the unknown. Fair enough? (Probably not..after all, this isn't the first time a political notion overshadowed known realities.). GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 05 Mar 13 - 08:00 PM If scientific findings disagree with Goofball's prejudices (especially if it might affect the "counselors" pocketbook), then of course that means the Yeah. Sure, Goofball. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,TIA Date: 06 Mar 13 - 12:31 AM GfS; You are totally and abjectly alone. The community of colleagues that you have always touted to us disagrees with you. In response you flail incoherently and blame "politics". I actually pity you. Truly. But that won't stop me from opposing you when you spout hateful (and self-hating?) bullshit. Tonight, I am again basking in the joy of a tremendous (musical in this case*) accomplishment by one of my children whom you so consistently and unthinkingly denigrate. I really do wish you could share in such things rather than marinate in fear and loathing. *selected for All-Region Orchestra on french horn to be precise |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 06 Mar 13 - 12:48 AM Many congratulations, TIA! And to the young 'un! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,TIA Date: 06 Mar 13 - 12:50 AM Thanks so much Don. I am proud of her. And more importantly, she is so proud of herself! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don Firth Date: 06 Mar 13 - 01:02 AM That's what counts. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie Date: 06 Mar 13 - 02:50 AM And now, especially for the benefit of Goofus, a contribution from the good professor. Ready boy? Woof woof woof! A little harsh, don't you think? Woof grrrr woof! Ok, fair point. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Richard Bridge Date: 06 Mar 13 - 02:50 AM Maybe the best place for the fugitive from sanity would be a separate planet - away from all human beings. Totally alone. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 06 Mar 13 - 04:14 AM Sorry, but I cannot support a premise based on wishful thinking...nor can I get behind a political agenda pandering to wishful thinking...nor would I base a political platform based on an unsupported premise of wishful thinking. Insofar as being 'alone' in my thinking...well, that is only what you may think, when all you surround yourself with wishful thinkers...or better yet, delusional, vociferous people. That would be as absolutely silly, as to think that a guy looks in a mirror, and deludes himself with believing he is the 'woman inside, trying to get out'...fact is, he is not a woman(or vice verse)..he is a guy, most likely finding a sensitive side, within himself uncomfortable. You can CHOOSE to believe what you want, you can empathize with those who chose to believe what they want, you can agree with those who profit off of supporting a delusion..but Nope..I'm sticking to the factual... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Counselors on same sex marriage From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 06 Mar 13 - 07:20 AM ""how would you counsel someone, based on a 'science' that isn't even proven???"" Well I certainly wouldn't suggest they be counselled by a nutjob who is so ignorant of science as to believe that it is ever definitively "proven", and counsels on the basis of having denied all that is known about the subject. What a prize twat! Don T. |
