BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?

Subject: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 01:36 PM

We recently discussed the DUP insisting on photos of IRA decommissioning. (thread deleted?)
It now seems that while Sinn Fein were negotiating, a huge bank robbery was in advanced planning by IRA.
The police are certain of this, and hostages were taken to Republican areas.
Sinn Fein deny IRA involvement, but they did about IRA involvement in Columbia, etc.
Do any NI members doubt IRA involvement?
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:01 PM

So sez the NI police chief, under a tremendous amount of pressure from above to point a finger at someone, so he conveniently points it at the IRA, offering no proof whatsoever, and sending the DUP echo chamber into high gear.

The police are certtain of this? Brilliant. Let them prove it in a court of law, rather than the court of public opinion, then.

The IRA may or may not be involved. But there is a little thing called the JUSTICE SYSTEM where these things are rightfully followed through upon, NOT A PRESS CONFERENCE.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:11 PM

Agreed Guest, and in UK individal suspects must not be labelled by police or press as probably guilty, nor evidence given against them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 02:13 PM

Still think they did it!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 08:05 PM

Could be wrong, but the police "incompetence" in stopping the getaway of the robbers ( apparently it was 2 hours before they responded) points more towards a loyalist operation,given the links between the police and loyalist groups.

An excellent wheeze to completely derail the peace process.

Just goes to show what a morass N Ireland still is, while we try to teach the world how to practice "democracy".

Maybe the yanks will need to come in, raise Derry to the ground and install a puppet government...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: John Routledge
Date: 07 Jan 05 - 08:30 PM

Very sad Ake but not guaranteed to be untrue. :0(

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 09:34 AM

If ever they get caught and the plot discovered...it's going to make a great movie.

Gripping, witty and with a heavy dose of human fraility I reckon. A superb soundtrack, beautiful wild scenery and probably Colin Farrell looking mean with a gun whilst at the same time, maintaining the love interest.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 12:42 PM

After 'Alexander the Grate', might it be with Ian Paisley junior this love interest?
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 12:51 PM

It could be good news really. If the IRA are finally willing to disband to facilitate the peace process this might well be the funding for a "redundency package" to enable their members to have reasonable severence payments in recognition of up to 30 years service to the organisation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 03:23 PM

Think you mean 'raze' Ake. 'Raise' is the opposite of 'raze'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 03:51 PM

Shouldn't the thread title be UK BEST robbery, PIRA?

Seamus

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: robomatic
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 04:05 PM

Saw the flick "The General" When the IRA wasn't involved in a big heist they felt slighted. I had a friend in Alaska who was playing tourist once driving through the North he was stopped on the road and his rental vehicle was 'requisitioned' by an armed party. Didn't seem to make any difference that he was a priest. I've got the impression that the IRA has maintained a patina of political respectability whilst filling in the activities of what we in the US call 'The Mob'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 04:38 PM

Seamus, Correct, I hope head cop Orde is right, we wouldn`t want the money falling into the wrong hands.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 05 - 04:42 PM

Of course, in a movie, the police chief who was so eager to point the finger would turn out to be up to his neck in it...

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 02:52 PM

Ard Mhacha, I was hoping you would post. Joking aside, do you think it was them? Does it matter that it was being planned during negotiations? What of Adams and McGuiness' denials?
Also, joking aside, this was a terrifying ordeal for the family members taken hostage at gun point by hooded men.
Bertie Aherne has just blamed IRA.
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 04:01 PM

Without some kind of evidence it's all complete speculation. And the fact that Bernie Aherne has come out with more of the same means bugger all - he's got an agenda here, as they say, just the same as all the other parties involved.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Grab
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 06:45 PM

Robo, that's absolutely correct. The IRA and loyalist gangs run all the drugs etc. and do all the same sort of crap like intimidation, torture and murder that the Mob would. It's bilateral - the IRA and loyalist paramilitaries just provide a convenient cover for the thugs of both sides.

At one time this wasn't the case, but the paramilitaries on both sides have long since ceased to have any political meaning.

Personally I reckon it's a bit crap that they'd just say this and not back it up though. If they know something, then tell us, don't just say "oh, I'm sure it was them". I don't mind them saying that the paramilitary gangs are suspects - you'd be stupid to rule them out - but to pick one group out without giving evidence just makes you look biased and gives ammunition for all the bigots out there (which means every NI politician).

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 06:46 PM

Sure Bertie's only worried in case they use the money to finance a Sinn Fein candidate to run against him next election.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 05 - 10:29 PM

You can photograph all the weapons getting decommissioned now that there may be £2mill in hip pockets to replace them.

Asshole's the lot of them rep and loyalists, why do they not piss off and let us live in peace, maybe then a UI will come about.

As for our police, to assume that they are hand in hand with the loyalists indicates a complete lack of knowledge of the situation in N.Ireland.

Rep have their areas tied up just like the loyalist and the police will not go near either areas. As a local loyalist thug put it to me when I stood up to some hoods, the hoods got a kick'in, I got an apology, all I had to do was not involve the police, as they did not want any police to see what they are up to.

This crap Goes on in rep areas also and we still have misguided people looking upon tham as heroes.

To top it off, it was my neighbourhood police who suggested talking to the hoods. Our Housing exec actually go to the local hood commanders to sort housing issues out.

We miss the point when any terrorist gets their hands on power we all lose, it is just a matter of time til some crap happens to you, be you the terrorists supporter/apologists or not they do not give a dam.

What chance do we have???

BTW the reason that the IRA are being blamed is simple, the loyalists would have told everyone how they did it by now. Also the daft attempt to misguide the police by spending money in loyalist part of Belfast fooled no one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 12:32 PM

I agree with guest the terrorists were in power from 1922 and had free rein to do whatever they liked.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 02:24 PM

Carson and his ilk were the armed terrorists in 1922 the whole creation of the 'Sick Counties' was at the point of a gun or two, between the threatened mutiny at the Curragh and Ian paisley's role model in Belfast. Referendum! Democracy! What bloody democracy.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 04:28 PM

And that was something much more worth calling "the UK's worst robbery"...

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 05:41 PM

Sure Bertie's only worried in case they use the money to finance a Sinn Fein candidate to run against him next election.
Giok

I hardly think that is the case, when the likes of Carson, who came from where btw? Had A CHANCE IN 1922 to make something of the six counties he cocked it up. Prod Ulster for a Prod people, and loyalists wonder where they go wrong.

2005 and it seems lessons are not being learnt, a terrorist is a terrorist no matter how they are packaged, just take the rose tinted glasses off and look at them in the real light of day.

As for the charges being speculation, give the people who have been taking the fight to terrorists some credit, they do know what they are talking about.

My worry is this, "the lads are at it again" attitude, dismissing the actions as not that serious will do nothing but damage. This does nothing but instill's fear and if that is not counteracted nothing that SF/IRA say will resolve the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jan 05 - 07:55 PM

...give the people who have been taking the fight to terrorists some credit...

Why? What I mean is, there's no particular reason to trust anyone in this sort of business. There've been lies in plenty from all parties, and dirty tricks of all sorts.

Obviously it's quite possible that this robbery was carried out by people in the IRA, acting officially or even independently. But there are lots of other possibilities, and mouthing off with firm accusations at this early stage just seems like playing games.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 11:41 AM

The politics of daylight robbery (found on the Guardian website)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:35 PM

Incisive, insightful, interesting,and incontrovertable.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:45 PM

Hardly incontrovertable. It is just speculation like so much of the press about the North of Ireland. I don't know if PIRA was involved or not, if the loyalist para's were involved or not, and I don't see the point of suggesting it publicly. UK has a legal system, let them use it.

I am much more interested in the way Sinn Fein is seen in the Republic and in the North of Ireland, in the wake of the unsubstantiated charges. This seems to me to be just one more play to discredit, and jeopardize, the legitimate aspirations of Irish people.

Time will tell. JMO.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 12:53 PM

Henry McDonald has always been a virulent opponent of the PIRA, his nationalist background is Official IRA certainly no lover of Adams and co.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 11 Jan 05 - 01:16 PM

A few moments ago from BBC NI News, no sign of the white van used in the robbery, no trace of the money, and no arrests yet.

Subject: BS: NI Bank Robbery and IRA
From: GUEST,Com Seangan
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 05:16 PM

IT would seem to me that the accusation of Sinn Féin being in the know, is a politically motivated ploy by political people who fear the political advances made by Sinn Féin both North and South of the border. Would fair minded members disagree ? WE are still waiting for any concrete evidence that the IRA were the culprits.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 05:25 PM

That's what it seems to be to me, Com.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 05 - 07:13 PM

Gee. I love this site. Not because you agree with my views. But because you people think things out. When I hear on TV that "intelligence sources have confirned", I can't help thinking if these are are the same "intelligent sources" who confirmed the existence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. The same "intelligence souces who found "incontrovertibe evidence" against the Maguire Family, against the Birminghamn Six and against The Guildford Four. Lig dom.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: John J
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 01:01 PM

I have no axe to grind regarding the NI situation other than finding it all to be terribly sad and sincerely hoping that peace will prevail. However with regard to the bank robbery: Adams says he has nothing to do with the IRA, PIRA or whatever. Fine. He also says the IRA / PIRA had nothing to do with the bank robbery. How come a person who has nothing to do with the IRA / PIRA be so well informed?

John

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 01:02 PM

You really have to ask?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Red Eye
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 04:31 PM

If they did it (PIRA) then good luck to them. I hope the money is spent wisely, rebuilding the lives of men and women who have spent much of their existence in British institutions fighting a great wrong.

Lete hear it for the Republican Prisoners.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 05:00 PM

You could equally say, John J, "How is that the people who say the IRA did do this can say that, if they are not part of the IRA command structure?"

And in both cases the logic would be highly suspect.

At this time it is all just speculation. The only thing certain is that there has been this robbery, and that most of the notes taken are, in effect, so much waste paper.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Big Mick
Date: 17 Jan 05 - 05:12 PM

Agreed, Kevin. Which is why motive behind the introduction of the speculation about the PIRA is completely suspect.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: belfast
Date: 21 Jan 05 - 04:37 PM

There seems to be a disturbing wave of commonsense and reasonableness sweeping through Mudcat. It is interesting to compare the postings in this thread to that which followed the "Stormont Spy Ring" raids. Some of the postings on that thread verged on the hysterical.

Personally I have no idea who carried out this raid but I do find Hugh Orde's assertion that he knows it was the IRA is, to say the least, unconvincing. It does, however, seem to distract the attention of the media and politicians from the amazing incompetence of the RUC/PSNI. Blaming the IRA and raiding the houses of a few republicans seems to keep everyone happy. There was a stolen container full of cigarettes, the Castlereagh break-in, and so on. Then the announcement, "The IRA did it", the raids (with the tv cameras etc invited along) and then …? And then the story goes away. No arrests. No convictions. I can't recall a single IRA member having been arrested and convicted since the ceasfire. The idea remains that the IRA were responsible and the police are doing their job.

A guest back there compares it to the intelligence which proved the existence of WMD in Iraq. Mr Orde actually goes further. He doesn't pretend to produce evidence, not even a dodgy one. We just have to take his word for it.

Here's a good response for other police forces suffering from similar lack of ability. "The big boys did it and ran away."

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 05:41 AM

There is an awful lot of that paper money floating about here, Orde and his men have been made to look foolish, to date not a trace of the money, apart from the that which is being used to buy baps, our bread server will take any Northern Bank notes,and he`s not using them to wallpaper the house.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 09:25 AM

Aha so the baker's the banker?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 09:48 AM

Judging by his baps he may have included some of those notes in the mix.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 05 - 10:11 AM

If he moves to Killiney there'll be questions. It amazed me how twenty men/women could hoist that amount of money without raising a finger to cause bodily harm. In England at Xmas a shopkeeper was killed for a couple of bottles of spirits.
Fair play.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,DERRY MAN
Date: 30 Jan 05 - 06:35 AM

if were gone give up our guns .well we had 2 get the money from some were 2 buy nice ones so 26.5 milion wiv help us buy a few new stinger missiles .

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:10 AM

IRA are so hurt and offended that British and Irish governments think that they could commit such a crime, that they are refusing to decommission any more weapons.
They are vey sensitive people.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 07:54 AM

So far no sign of any Northern Bank notes being decommissioned.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Belfast/N.I./Ireland.
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 10:06 AM

"The IRA may or may not be involved. But there is a little thing called the JUSTICE SYSTEM where these things are rightfully followed through upon, NOT A PRESS CONFERENCE. "


"Agreed Guest, and in UK individal suspects must not be labelled by police or press as probably guilty, nor evidence given against them."



"Personally I have no idea who carried out this raid but I do find Hugh Orde's assertion that he knows it was the IRA is, to say the least, unconvincing."

All above applies to individuals, not a criminal gang,the police have every right to say who they think carried out the robbery, until it comes down to naming individuals, therefore the criticsm is wrong.

In the bad old days when robberies etc were carried out by terrorists the police said either the IRA or UVF etc carried this out. What has changed to make this announcement wrong?

Take the blindfolds for goodness sake, Orde is far from stupid and Aherns advisors know what goes on also. Do not be naive enough to think that SF?IRA does not have a few people planted deep within their ranks.

I just hope that those who support the terrorist do not get on their wrong side, justice is swift and sometimes brutal, just like the latest stabbing.

But then it seems that republicans are complete angel's and can do no wrong, just like their loyalist counter parts. What was their cry "My only crime was being loyal".

Get the F--- off our backs and let us all live in peace, SF?IRA, UDA\LOYALIST apologists should be ashamed off yourselves, defending terrorists, while we in Ireland pay the price.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 11:38 AM

Maybe it was an IRA operation, maybe it wasn't. But unfounded allegations mean bugger all. Or rather they just mean there is some political game being played.

The police knew who did the Birmingham bombings didn't they? And the government knew all about these non-existent stocks of WMDs in Iraq?

Trusting any of these guys is always likely to be a step too far. Sometimes they get it wrong, and say more than they know; sometimes for policy reasons they say things they know aren't true.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Belfast/N.I./Ireland.
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 01:13 PM

The point being the police named individuals and took action against them. IMO it was a disgrace which deserves a full apology to all concerned.

We have to get away from this untouchable attitude, no natter who it is that breaks the law has to be caught. Holding people above suspicion because they are the favourite terrorist organisation is wrong.

"And the government knew all about these non-existent stocks of WMDs in Iraq?"

Sure they knew, they knew they were wrong, but to suggest TB has any agenda on this issue is wrong. TB wants to dump NI like a hot stone, why has he given SF so many chances.

SF/IRA wants to be part of a democracy and part of that not holding yourself above the law or being your own law maker.

The bottom line is that loyalist would not have the intelligence to know the details that the robbers knew. If you think that loyalists can walk Poleglass and Twinbrook unnoticed you are seriously wrong.

I can understand how people can be sceptical of the government but only to a point.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Den
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 01:36 PM

Blair giving Siin Fein chances? You seem to missing the bottom line and that is Loyalists don't want to share power. They never did. The DUP have only taken up the UUP mantle. Its the same old story stall tactic after stall tactic and if it weren't Sinn Fein on the receiving end then it would be any other Nationalist party that could challenge them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Feb 05 - 01:40 PM

Quite simply, supply the evidence before you point the finger at the most convenient target, we have been listening to government lackeys for years spouting out propaganda, the facts buddy the facts, that`s all we want.