BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 07:47 PM

Tiocfaidh...The IRAs' purpose is to construct a United Irish Republic, a sentiment I fully agree with.

The problem lies with the Loyalist population of the North, who will always be in a position to block this purpose.

Acceptance of the GFA and participation in the Assembly has actually weakened the position of SF/IRA.

While the armed struggle went on the British govt were desperate to make concessions, now that SF/IRA are safely in the "democratic" box ther is no need for urgency.
I think the penny has dropped with SF/IRA, that they're hopes are unachievable through "democratic " means and this situation has been cleverly engineered to give them an exit strategy.

SF will publically distance themselves from IRA, and continue to work for a democratic solution, leaving IRA to take up the struggle again and pile the pressure on Westminster.

Poor Tony, maybe he'll resign before the election!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 03:18 AM

Tioc
Something I can respond to.
There is no desire in mainland Britain to cling on to NI
We want out more than you want us out.
When demography gives the Nationalists a majority there will likely be street parties here.

Does anyone else still believe that the robbery was a huge conspiracy to smear the Republican movement?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 05:08 AM

Keith ..We may want to get out, but our disgracful historical treatment of NI and its people means that we are inextricably linked to the loyalists .

We cant get out without being perceived as abandoning our most fervent supporters.

SF/IRA will quite rightly use this anomaly to their advantage.

There is no advantage to be gained by the British in trying to weaken SF/IRA position, as that tactic will surely speed the return to the bomb and the armalite...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 05:31 AM

I think Wolfgang's probably nearest the truth. There are plenty of hardliners who have no truck for Adams and the Good Friday process, and the republican movement is in the process of splitting all the time.
The Contunuity IRA, the Real IRA (thought to be behind the Omagh bomb) or some other independent faction could well have carried out the robbery, and I would imagine that Sinn Feinn and what's left of PIRA are spitting nails about it, because it plays into the hands of the die-hard 'no surrender' lunatics who will blame anything and everything on SF - much like the way the PLO gets blamed by Israeli hardliners for the actions of Hamas and Hezbollah on the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Den
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 09:29 AM

Some good analogies there Gervase. The fact is though. Sinn Fein is really the only National party in Ireland with members holding seats north and south of the border. Now I'm sure that Berti is nervous about that too. And just who on the loyalist/unionist side wants to embrace a united Ireland? Anyone? Lets try to answer some more questions how does this whole fiasco benefit Sinn Fein? They more than any other party have worked in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement. Why would they move away so radicaaly from the political path they have taken and one that has given them so much credibility among the undecided nationalist vote. Why haven't the authourities convicted anyone yet. They say the have the intelligence reports but still have not made any arrests. Nationalits do not trust the Police or the British Government with very good reason. So anything they say on the subject means nothing to Nationalists. See we've heard it all before.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 02:32 PM

Bertie Has No Hard Evidence

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 04:24 PM

It is interesting that no one has mentioned that almost all of the people questioned regarding the cash find in the republic have been released, including one who was a member of Sinn Fein.

There is also the scene where a large sum of money was found in a Police Sports club, of course it was planted by some republicans to take heat away from other matters. So let me see, the republicans were able to enter this police sports club, walk all the way into the toilet area carrying a parcel and walk out again without being stopped or questioned ?????>. Imagine a police club in N.Ireland with no security. GIve me a break.!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:02 AM

Guest Tiocfaidh seem to be another IRA/Sinn Fein apologist or very naive.

Quote from Sean O'Callaghan, former head of IRA Southern Command [ Yorkshire Post 22/2/05 ] " There is hardly a single person in the island of Ireland who does not believe that the IRA carried out the Northern bank robbery. Why did they do it ? Because it's what the IRA does and because they have got away with murder,racketeering, mutilations,arms smuggling, training narco-terrorists in Colombia and much else without suffering much more than a slap on the wrist from either the British or Irish governments. "

Not bad eh!

eric

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:13 AM

If it is proven that the IRA were involved in the robbery, we will see the effect this has on the electorate, judging by Nationalist reaction to the onslaught on Adams and co, it will strengthen their hand.
People I have talked to are disgusted with the political commentators on the media, there browbeating of every Sinn Fein spokesperson who appears is obvious to every viewer.
So when the election comes around we can then judge if Aherne, and the Unionists in the north have banished the Shinners forever, somehow I don`t think so.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:25 AM

Please do not forget that the military wing of the British Government have been involved in murder and torture in Iraq, just carrying on from were they left off in every country they disgraced with their presence.
Look at how many MPs from Britain have been involved in fraud, some of the unlucky ones have done time in prison, squeaky clean was never the perorgrative of any power.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:13 PM

eric the red seems to be another Pro-British Imperialist who has difficulty telling the difference between what one person thinks hardly anyone in the island of Ireland believes........

.... and a shred of evidence to support his theory.

(he probably thought The Guildford Four & The Birmingham Six should have been hanged at the time, as well)

Go on, tell me I'm wrong...
.. and I'll tell you (using your own logic) that I don't believe you.

And where would that leave us, eric?

A little redder on your part, perhaps...

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 05:19 AM

Tiocfaidh, why do you have so much difficulty in believing that IRA/Sinn Fein ever did anything wrong ? Is it becauce Gerry Adams says so ?
I can admit that the British government have committed great crimes against Ireland and the Irish people but one crime doesn't excuse another and IRA/Sinn Fein are not so stupid to believe that they can do what the British government couldn't ie. bomb and terrorise people into submission.

If a united Ireland was achieved tommorrow IRA would have no reason to exist, they only exist for their own sake.

eric

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: belfast
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 05:43 AM

"Sean O'Callaghan, former head of IRA Southern Command"?

For an understanding of the mind of Mr O'Callaghan look at James Thurber's story about Walter Mitty. The major difference being that Mitty did not earn a living from his fantasies. For my own part I have not idea what everyone on this island thinks. I certainly do know some republicans who believe the bank raid was the work of the IRA. It seems what they actually mean is that they want to believe the IRA did it. Others, of course, don't believe it. In other words, no matter where you go, there would appear to be a wide range of opinions and speculatations.

And up to this point not a single, solitary, tiny shred of evidence.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 03:16 PM

"IRA are not so stupid to believe that they can do what the British government couldn't ie. bomb and terrorise people into submission."

But they did exactly that, eric.... Bomb the British to the table

And a United Ireland is just around the corner.
Read my above post: 20 Feb 05 - 06:06 PM " that that aim is almost complete (a much un-accepted fact, I might add), its function is likewise almost complete.

Whoever else may have carried this out, eric (and others) it was not done in the name of a United Ireland. Ergo it was not The IRA

Naiveté is one thing eric. Pure ignorance is a different matter altogether.

As far as the average Brit wanting to 'wash their hands of Ireland'--, that wouldn't have happened without a successful Armed Struggle. Painful to admit, eric, but true nonetheless.

Makes you sick, doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 12:26 PM

The UDF was something Andy Tyrie came up with in 1969, up around Magilligan... (He probably couldn't spell UDA right). It lasted to the degree that it made it to the list of official acronyms provided on the CAIN website, here.

I heard of the set of initials (vaguely) when I was growing up, like Den, in the midst of the conflict. They were never a player in the bigger picture, and it was soon forgotten about, once they got the spelling right.

brucie, on the other hand is just a fool, who spends his time on this forum, apologising for getting it wrong for some reason or another.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: belfast
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 03:56 PM

Nit-picking pedants' corner. Surely it's only an acronym if you can pronounce it like a word, e.g. Nato, scub, UNESCO, ETC.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 04:40 PM

Uddif?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 04:41 PM

Define 'word'

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 04:56 PM

yewdeyeff?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 06:33 PM

How does one pronounce ETC?

Hate to be a pedant, belfast..., but you know the craic...

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 06:36 PM

eksehtra.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Tiocfaidh
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 06:41 PM

Where's the 'ra', then?

No need to answer...
They've been wondering where they've been for years...

They even think they pulled off that robbery...

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 07:44 PM

It couldn't have been them. They haven't the time. Too busy buying widescreen tv's. Jaysus where did they get the money. I have meself thinking now.
Here's one for you GPO.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 07:52 PM

G'po ?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 07:57 PM

wrong accent. you lose.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 07:58 PM

I hear that 'Hello' and 'OK' magazines have been outbid for exclusive rights to Charlie & Camilla's wedding... 'An Phoblacht' have offered £23m provided they get 2 clear shots....

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:00 PM

wrong accent. you lose.

Hey... I'm not Welsh !

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 08:14 PM

walsh?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 09:05 AM

Sometimes an outside view may be interesting:

The Madness of Belfast (English translation of an article in the moderately left German magazine DER SPIEGEL)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 05 - 02:56 PM

Thanks Wolfgang.
A powerful piece of writing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Mar 05 - 09:05 AM

Excellent! I agree with every word.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: belfast
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 01:53 PM

That anyone can find that article a powerful piece of writing is a strange notion. I find it, for the most part, a careless and tired regurgitation of propaganda. But that is largely a matter of opinion. That anyone can believe every word of it seems more like a simple impossibility.

Consider this.

the aura of martyrdom surrounding "Bloody Sunday" is today, an aura the rock band U2 has used to permanently enshrine members of the IRA in the roles of victim and heroic resistance fighter

U2 as supporters of the IRA? This is not the view of an outsider. This is the view of someone from another planet.

Or this.

Sinn Fein does little to address these problems. It appears to have no interest in democratic rules. In parliament, it had opponents bugged

This is not merely untrue (I hesitate to call it a lie because of the possibility that the writer actually believes it) it is the opposite of the truth. It was the leaders of Sinn F�in whose offices etc. were bugged.

All in all a fairly average piece of journalism.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 03:58 PM

Wolfgang, The reporters suggestion that that U2 supports the IRA, will certainly be viewed with incredulity by anyone from Ireland, the truth is, they are the IRAs biggest critics.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 04:02 PM

And of course I should have added, to date, the Police are no further in producing any evidence regarding who was responsible for the robbery.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: The Curator
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 04:56 PM

Waste of time ard explaining this to Wolfie, he is an authority on this and other subjects.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 22 Apr 05 - 05:20 PM

Just read the article, what a load of crap. For one thing there is no "catholic district in Belfast" there are several to be precise.

Also the slight insult that started the fight leading to the death in Magennis's bar was actually a patron whose wife had been insulted by McCartney and who himself ended up with a slash across the neck, put there by Mc Cartney and his companion ( a well known hood). The patron and his wife had left the bar and were on the way to the hospital when McCartney got into the second argument.

As far as the bank heist is concerned, it has now been quite some time since it occured and NO POSOITIVE PROOF has been produced. So far it has all been rumours and hearsay.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: belfast
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 09:32 AM

Maybe the article loses somethin in translation. Or perhaps the journalist should have worked harder on his bits of local colour. If you told anyone in Belfast that you were going for a meal in the Europa Restaurant you would receive a blank look. Enter the name on a search engine and you will only be guided back to the Der Spiegel article. There is, of course, the famous Europa Hotel whose bar is a fovourite hangout for ladies on the night and journalists - honest whores and dishonest whores, if you will excuse the phrase.

And does anyone imagine that the words which the loyalists screamed at
the schoolchildren of Ardoyne was "little Catholic tarts"? The phrase sounds almost endearing. Perhaps "little Catholic tarts" is one of the delicacies served in the Europa Restaurant.

All this is good knockabout fun and we shouldn't take this trash too seriously but look at this
bit.

It doesn't matter that the Protestant Ulster militias are criminals and drug dealers, that they assault Chinese immigrants, paint swastikas on walls and have managed to turn Belfast into the world's most racist city.

It doesn't matter?!? Let's ignore for a second that lazy, stupid, journalistic "world's most racist city". That is possibly the least offensive thing about that appalling sentence.And no doubt someone will say that I am taking the sentence out of context. Go and look at the context and explain to me some way to read that sentence in which it is not disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Den
Date: 23 Apr 05 - 06:57 PM

Misleading tripe. U2 glorifying the IRA. Would that be the U2 with the lead singer Bono who during a concert in the Waterfront in Belfast trotted John Hume and David Trimble out on stage raising thier arms in salute and declaring them the architects of peace. Now really what does this wee man from Dublin really know about the north of Ireland. John Hume I can see but Trimble, an architect of peace. Trimble who stood on a stage at Drumcree and was photographed shaking the hand of Billy Wright the loyalist hitman. The same Trimble that danced arm in arm with Paisley down the Garvaghy road when the parades commission caved-in to loyalist demands and allowed them to march against the will of the local residents. Some architect of peace. Now Belfast, when it comes to racism I think the Germans know a thing or two. Wait a minute now there I go painting all the German people with the big brush. I think that statement qualifies me to write a magazine article.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 05:35 AM

Den, Trimble will disappear after he loses out to to DUP candidate David Simpson in the Election on May 5th.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: The Curator
Date: 24 Apr 05 - 04:23 PM

Is this the same David Trimble who called the Catholic people of Portadown DOGS in 1995 ? I wonder did he regret going on stage with short ass from Dublin ?

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 05 - 03:17 AM

I see that a suspect has been charged with 29 murders, by planting a bomb in Omagh.
It is years since the massacre (victims including Spanish schoolchildren on an exchange visit, and unborn twins) and the police and many people inside and out of the Republican movement knew well who the killers were.
He had already been convicted on a lesser charge, but advances in forensic science now allow the murder charge to be brought.

I mention this because some contributors persist in citing lack of charges as evidence of innocence.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:49 AM

Is a charge automatic guilt ? Ask those innocent Irish men and women who lay in English prisons throughout the seventies and eighties. Also those mothers who were released within the past few years for killing their own children. I would advise we wait until the trail displays the evidence at hand before we pass the guilty verdict.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: The Curator
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:52 AM

The above post is from me, but for some reason my name didn't come up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:57 AM

Tiocfaidh you write
As far as the average Brit wanting to 'wash their hands of Ireland'--, that wouldn't have happened without a successful Armed Struggle. Painful to admit, eric, but true nonetheless.

Whatever you think of British people, as a group they always support the underdog.
I remember the boycott of appartheid S Africa, refusing to play sports with them and ejecting them from the commonwealth. I remember how Rhodesia was forced to declare independance fro us because we would not tolerate their regime.
I remember the universal support here for the US Civil Rights movement.
And I remember that everyone on the mainland sympathised with and supported the NI Civil Rights movement. A couple of years, months even, and public opinion would have forced the changes you are now anticipating.
But then came the bombs.
I still remember those scenes of the bus station. A fireman using a shovel on a bloody mess with long blonde hair. A wave of revulsion swept the country and set your cause back 30 years.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 05 May 05 - 06:36 AM

Hasn`t anyone noticed the timing of this man being charged for the Omagh bombing, the day before the Election, how cunning of the powers that be, and it won`t make the slightest difference to the Sinn Fein vote, they will become the strongest nationalist party after this Election.

Peter Corrigan the Solicitor for Sean Hoey, stated, " Absolutely no evidence has bee brought to date againsy Sean Hoey, the fact that the latest allegations has been leaked shows that it is a media stunt, Sean Hoey is a prine candidate for bail, he has never been convicted of any offence, my client denies all charges put against him.".

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 05 - 10:05 AM

Bobby Sands - Irish slimmer of the year 1972.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:53 PM

Sorry but if you are to enter a post it is always wise to either know your facts or at least look them up. Robert Gerard Sands died whilst on hunger strike on the 5th May 1981.

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: The Curator
Date: 05 May 05 - 05:58 PM

Sorry the above post is from me. This is the second time today my name hasn't come up, Someone must know I will be posting our election wins shortly !

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 06 May 05 - 04:06 AM

199

Subject: RE: BS: UK worst robbery.PIRA?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 06 May 05 - 04:07 AM

This is a nasty little thread, but 200 is 200. Eat my shorts Terry!