BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?

Subject: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 May 13 - 10:30 AM

Tory co-chairman Lord Feldman denies 'swivel-eyed loon slur'

So, it clearly isn't him then. Who can it be?

It must be .....

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 18 May 13 - 12:17 PM

Great Fun that the Tories are tearing the party apart - Sad that Labour dont seem to have the clout to sort them out and tske over .

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 18 May 13 - 02:19 PM

Mind you. Fair comment. The blue rinse brigade think they have the right to tell MPs what to think and say.

And most of the ones I have met tend to be barking. ..

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 May 13 - 03:39 AM

Independent on line:

"Lord Feldman denies it is he who said those words, and the newspapers, who didn't name him, stand by their story. "

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Acorn4
Date: 19 May 13 - 03:49 AM

I don't think Labour have to do much at the moment except stand on the sidelines and not give the Daily Mail any ammunition.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 May 13 - 04:46 AM

.... and come up with a really cunning plan?

How about building lots of houses for a start?

But never mind that for now lets just support Geofrey Howe

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:29 AM

Building lots of houses didn't help much the last time Les, it only helped create the boom and bust that we and our kids are suffering the effects of.
I keep saying, if you want a "liberal" capitalist society, you need to be economically competitive......we have now no chance of that without massive cuts in benefits and living standards, and huge cuts in top rates of tax to encourage growth in the economy.

That is the blunt truth and no person who imagines himself in the least socialism, would want capitalism under these terms.

Regarding the Tories problems.....the ordinary usually silent majority have found a voice on social matters, "left" and "right" are responding to the damage which is being inflicted on our countries by a vocal "liberal" minority backed by an unrepresentative media and enabled by cowardly politicians who court the media for electoral reasons.

My guess is theat the "gay marriage" legislation will be the social straw that breaks the "liberal" back.

Splitting the church and the foundations of society to give homosexuals rights which are already available through civil union.

The madness of "liberalism"

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 19 May 13 - 06:00 AM

Capitalism is run on the "carrot and stick" theory, when it fucks -up it hands out lots of carrots to the rich and beats the hell out of the poor with a large stick.

"liberals" should ponder on this truth, before sounding off about "equality" for sexual minorities, or support for those who would like to see our heads severed from our bodies.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Stu
Date: 19 May 13 - 07:53 AM

It's quite satisfying to see the Tories descend into their predictable squabbling over Europe. It's even more interesting to see them caving in so readily to Farage and his posse of nasty little men in a desperate and misguided attempt to stem the haemorrhaging of right-wing nutters to UKIP.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,Musket sans doom mongering
Date: 19 May 13 - 09:37 AM

Aye.. Gay marriage will be the final straw eh? Look on the bright side. I feel myself to be a liberal in the wide definition, as opposed to any political party. So I for one will be celebrating next week when a Tory led government makes a stand and shows that parliament is there for the people. Views are one thing but equality, no ifs no buts equality is a building block that must be in place in order to legitimise any form of government.

You don't govern your supporters, you govern everybody so everybody with a vote in elections must be treated equally.

Full stop.

As Akenaton puts the word liberal in inverted commas, I suppose "bigot" is more effective than bigot as an insult? Except it isn't an insult here, it is an objective term based on the sad bitter ramblings of a twisted old man screwed by his own pathetic hatred.

Swivel gate? I reckon the PM should have courage of his conviction and denounce those irresponsible Col Blimps who prey on weak MPs to destroy their party on the basis of failing to understand the c21. He could start by reading Matthew Parris and his excellent article in today's Sunday Times.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 19 May 13 - 12:00 PM

"He would say that, wouldn't he?"
and Boo!! to you too....Didums.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 13 - 12:01 PM

I rather assumed it was probably Kenneth Clarke, since presumably that would reflect his views, and the phrase has the right kind of orotundity for him.

Actually I'd see the phrase as rather flattering. 'Swivel-eyed loons' sound quite interesting, much more so than the sad reality.

But surely the focus of a Tory party newly committed dedication to equality (except of course where anything to do with money is involved) should imply a recognition that being a swivel-eyed loon should in no way mean that your views are not incorporated into party policy, along with the views of all other varieties of loons.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 May 13 - 02:15 PM

But who said it?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,Musket sans reality check
Date: 19 May 13 - 02:27 PM

The swivel eyed loons say that gay marriage will break the party.

The swivel eyed loons say it is an unimportant distraction in an otherwise busy parliament agenda.

Take yer choice?

Hammond, the defence secretary with an important role on our behalf said yesterday that Jesus wouldn't want it.

I suppose the one thing I do have in common with Akenaton is a sense that we are all doomed. Doomed Mr Mainwaring! Except I know that once the legislation goes through the bigots will piss off or find some other hatred to inflict on decent people.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:15 PM

But equally isn't there something a bit swivel-eyed about thinking that changing the definition of marriage is a matter of high priority? Regardless of whether they think it's in itself a great idea or a daft idea.

Still if the Tory party wants to turn into a circular firing squade, that's fine by me.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 19 May 13 - 05:19 PM

I don't believe we are "all doomed" Ian, as I have never had any faith in the Capitalist system.
Were I in the position of being a supporter of "liberal democracy" in a Capitalist economic system, I should have worked out that I was doomed many moons ago.

The disaster that we are about to experience should be viewed as an opportunity to slash and burn.
Perhaps we can rise like a Pheonix from the ashes...:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:28 AM

Ok Ake, give us some details of your cunning plan

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:44 AM

You can see Feldman's point. The tory party enthusiasts have always taken a while to see which way the wind was blowing.

although they grew to love Thatch, few of them would have tipped Heath the black spot.

I can remember feeling sorry for Nicholas Ridley who was sacked for saying only what most the geriatric membership were saying.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 May 13 - 04:53 AM

"I can remember feeling sorry for Nicholas Ridley"

Really?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 May 13 - 05:55 AM

In simple terms Les... most of us are going to be much worse off in the future, most of our grandchildren will live a life with little purpose....they are the debris of Global Capitalism.

Soon the system will have no use for us,it will have moved on to exploit more profitable labour and resources.
We need to unlearn all that we have been taught about "getting on" consumerism, the deification of money.
Our kids need to understand that respect and service are the most important things in life...they are what gives life meaning, not the pursuit of financial reward.
Every human being has something to contribute and it is their duty to do so.
When the money system finally implodes, with it will go all the saps introduced to confuse the populace into believing that we have equality...or even that equality is not simply conformity.
Unlike what the "liberals" tell us, there is no quick fix.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 May 13 - 06:00 AM

Doesn't sound much like a slow fix either Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 May 13 - 06:15 AM

There are ways of being happy which dont involve consumerism Les.

We've all become too clever by half.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,Musket rubbing his eyes
Date: 20 May 13 - 07:48 AM

Really Al? Felt sorry for Nicholas Ridley?

The old bugger was the grand architect of what became watered down into Thatcherism. He may have been saying what the blue rinse brigade felt, but this was the generation that thought Mosely had a point. They were like something out of the ark, and I don't mean something cuddly...

Akenaton. there is no quick fix, but by the same token there is no quick bust either. You may not be seeing it in damp dreary Tartanville, and I don't see it in either where I live nor the city I now work in, but the economy is picking up for some, and has been doing for some time. The trick is to spread the growth outside of London & the home counties. Why is the FTSE riding high and London property prices soaring if we are going to hell in a hand cart?

Sure, capitalism isn't sustainable with finite resources and a growing population.But two things to point out. 1. Capitalism isn't absolute in any society and 2. it is distribution of wealth either locally or internationally that is the problem, not what creates it in the first place.

The threats to lifestyle are decisions made by people, not the resource those people are playing with. I am far more concerned with the fragmentation put forward by Eurosceptics and Scottish Nationalists than I am by European regulations and gobal sales of haggis or Russ Abbott wigs.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,SPB on a Training Course
Date: 20 May 13 - 08:38 AM

While it has been 'fun' in the past seeing the Tories tear into each other when in opposition, if the government keeps changing direction to appease their backbenchers and local associations then this could cause major damage to the rest of us economically and socially.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 May 13 - 09:03 AM

Thanks Musket - well put.

But, Feldman had issued no writs - does that mean he said it?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 May 13 - 09:53 AM

Ian...You seem about as familiar with youth unemployment rates,as you were with homosexual STD rates....I'm impressed!

"No quick bust!"...." 2. it is distribution of wealth either locally or internationally that is the problem, not what creates it in the first place."   :0)......Tell that to the corporate Capitalists.

Cant you hear them screaming   "WE need growth"....that is code for "we want to cut your living standards and our tax"

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 May 13 - 01:45 PM

The mention of Oswald Mosley there reminds me that back in the 1950s he was a strong advocate of a united Europe, and even published a magazine called The European, and had a slogan "Europe a Nation".

It's surprising that the anti-Europe brigade don't make use of that as a way of putting down their opponents.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:37 PM

What is a swivwl eyed loon anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 20 May 13 - 03:38 PM

Sorry. That should have been swivel eyed.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 20 May 13 - 04:39 PM

I take it that "loon" is a corruption of "lunatic"...a mad person. used to be associated with phases of the moon (lune)...Loony?

Everybody knows that all loonies have swively eyes...dont they?

Anyway why are all you "liberals" not raising cain about such a discriminatory remark on those suffering from psychiatric illnes??

If he had said "mincing homosexuals", your eyes would be swivelling like mad.....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 May 13 - 03:24 AM

It's because we are only "quoting" what has been "aledged" by "jounalists".

We on the left are just as shocked by this abuse of the rank and file of political activists as they are themselves.

L in C
SEL of a different brand

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 May 13 - 07:21 AM

Entertained and amused might be better ways to describe the reaction by outsiders to this squabble. I rather assume the contempt is mutual, and that the party activists feel the same contempt for the professionals.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 21 May 13 - 10:28 AM

Oh yeah?.....If you say so, but not according to Ian.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: akenaton
Date: 21 May 13 - 10:30 AM

Sorry Mr McGrath...that was a response to Les.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 May 13 - 07:39 PM

well actually - it wasn't the blue rinse brigade. it was the war generation.

they reasoned, we laid our lives down on the line for this country that serves us up shit. when we come back...we want jobs, a decent life, education for our kids, no more worries about housing and ahealth service...

Churchill lost the 45 election because he said it couldn't be done.

in '79 thatch won the election saying our race was being polluted. we were giving out council houses to pakis with 72 kids - they all had library books out, and the irish came over here to use our health service to have kids.

ridley said less than a tenth of what every person over a certain age was saying.....

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: GUEST,Musket trying hard not to be revisionist
Date: 22 May 13 - 11:59 AM

The blue rinse brigade were part of the war generation. The ones you speak of, wanting a better life after returning from the war were our parents. My Dad spent the war based in London, as an electrician restoring services in the blitz etc and came back to work in a factory. The pit he left during the war bacause his number said so didn't want him back.

I don't think the blue rinse brigade were that affected? Debs may have worked in munition factories but went back to being debs. Ridley spoke for them.

Akenaton. - Now you think I am left wing? You'll be calling me a socialist next.... Don't let the flat cap and greyhound fool you.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory co-chairman 'swivelgate' named?
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 May 13 - 02:48 AM

Looks like the press have been silenced on this one:

"Tory co-chairman Lord Feldman denies 'swivel-eyed loon slur'"

Someone said it and lots of people know who said it. Why are we not told?

"Swivelgate" - an extremely small example of "Watergate" - and in each case the cover up is more significant then the original crime isn't it?