Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret

Subject: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 11:04 AM

I only wish this were an April Fools Day hoax.

Has anyone seen the new Victoria's Secret commercial with Bob Dylan?

On first glance, this is wrong on so many levels, but after viewing it I really admire Bob Dylan.   I only hope that when I reach Dylan's age someone approaches me to ask if I would like to be paid to fly to Venice and do a commercial with several supermodels.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 11:24 AM

Does he know the streets are flooded?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 11:44 AM

Huh? You gotta be kidding! :-) This is on TV, is it?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 11:46 AM

"All I really wanta dooooo, is baby, be friends with yooooo"

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:36 PM

I ain't looking to dance yer dance
Steal yer bra or underpants
Or denude you, or intrude you
Or feed pigeons in the nude,
All I really wanna dooooo
Is baby, make ads with you....


A

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:38 PM

we idea men have our uses...*grin*

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:03 PM

It's airing in the US now... doubt we'll get it in the UK though. Victoria's Secret have also put out a special 9-track compilation of Bob Dylan songs which they're selling in their stores - nothing too exciting on there except for a 'remix' of Lovesick (which is the version used on the Dylan advert)

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:39 PM

Yes Little Hawk, the ads started running this week. It is almost as strange as "Masked and Anonymous".

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Pied Piper
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:07 PM

"Advertising signs that con you
Into thinking you're the one
That can do what's never been done
That can win what's never been won
Meantime life outside goes on
All around you"

"It's never been my duty to remake the world at large,
Nor is it my intention to sound a battle charge"

"I'd have paid off the traitor and killed him much later
But that's just the way that I am."

""Would ya please not stare at me like that," he said,
"It's just my foolish pride,
But sometimes a man must be alone
And this is no place to hide"

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peter T.
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:21 PM

Bleahhhhh.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Big Tim
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:38 PM

Bob will get three things from the advert.
1.Money.                                                    2.Personal attention (ego massage).                                 3.Promotion of his back catalogue.

Despite what some people believe, Bob Dylan is in fact a human being, and will therefore derive satisfaction from this.

What hypocrite can blame him?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 02:59 PM

So it's official ... Bob Dylan is pants.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:07 PM

It seems that he filmed two adverts for them while he was in Venice - or, at least, there are two versions of the same advert maybe. Here's an mpeg of one them (2MB):
http://www.songe.info/dvd/secret2.MPG

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:28 PM

Hell, those Victoria's Secret women can be very persuasive. I figure that's what did it. He's human, after all. :-)

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:34 PM

Please tell me he's wearing clothes.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM

oh so that was what that was on the TV last night...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:43 PM

Bob Dylan in a thong... not a pretty picture

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:19 PM

Noooooooooo...

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:23 PM

Do you think he'll write about her secret in a song? Ya know, one of those things where ya play it backwards and ya get messages from Victoria? Cool.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Amos
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:39 PM

See for yourself.

I think I know how he feels.


A

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:42 PM

"Too much of nothing can make a man feel ill at ease..."

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:57 PM

Or, for the longer edit of the ad... go here and click on the 'play video' link near the bottom of the page.

http://www2.victoriassecret.com/

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:59 PM

Was Dylan the one with the beard?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:10 PM

Brucie, I'm not going to touch that line!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:14 PM

lmao--Good one, Ron.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:41 PM

"She moves just like a woman..."

Art

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:12 PM

"No, no, no, it ain't he babe . . .".

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:21 PM

Well---itis April Fool's Day---so perhaps now we can believe that Dylan is the personification of a commercial "old" fool.   At least not on the way to the bank.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:43 PM

The devil made him do it.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:49 PM

Naw. He ain't wearin' a dress, I don't think.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:26 PM

This is NOT an April Fools day prank Bill!   Dylan doesn't need the money, he is just having a great time.

I'm jealous.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:32 PM

I just watched the commercial again, and this time I paid attention to Dylan. Maybe it is the scenary or the company he is keeping, but he really looks good in this commercial. They cleaned him up good!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:33 PM

Yeah, that's the way I see it too. He's having a great time. What a laugh to see Bob advertising for Victoria's Secret!

- LH

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:36 PM

Aside from the laugh factor which is purely based on the idea, the actual commercial is very well done.

I'm glad he turned down the offer from Geritol!

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:30 PM

Victoria's Secret always does their stuff well.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Jeanie
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:48 AM

Ah, I see what's happening here! "Victoria's Secret" must be the U.S. equivalent of "Joanna Southcott's Box" here in England. The prophetic secrets contained in Joanna Southcott's box can be revealed only in the collective presence of 24 Bishops of the Church of England. (Not happened yet, several centuries later). In a similar way, Victoria's Secrets will only be revealed in the presence of 24 singer-songwriters. Dylan is No. 1 on the list. Who's next, I wonder ?

(Somehow, I think the people of Britain have drawn the short straw, here.)

- jeanie

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Big Tim
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:28 AM

He's also putting out his own wine. Knocked Out Loaded?

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 07:05 AM

A great sardonic leer he's got there. Those links crashed Internet Explorer for some reason, so I tried Mozilla and that worked fine. As Amos said, "I think I know how he feels".

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: JJ
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 08:11 AM

Ron, the commercial can't POSSIBLY be as weird as "Masked and Anonymous!"

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 08:45 AM

My 19 yr old daughter said she found it totally creepy in pedophile pervert sort of way.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 09:39 AM

Guest - I think your daughter needs to get out more if she is reading "pedophile pervert" in that commercial. That is a real stretch to make that connection.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 12:24 PM

No, stupid sell-out misogynist jerk is more like it. yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 12:28 PM

Granted, the young lady is a fair bit younger than Bob, but if she wasn't she wouldn't be a young lady at all.

I suppose they could do a Calender Girl version. Not a bad idea maybe. But I imagine not in line with the company's sales policy.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peace
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 12:29 PM

I wonder if he's bringing it all back home? This is the freewheelin' bob dylan, another side of bob dylan. William Shatner probably turned the role down.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,02 Apr 04 - 08:45 AM
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 01:34 PM

I'm in complete agreement with Peter's 02 Apr 04 - 12:24 PM post.

Actually, the "pedophile perv" remark of my daughter's was simply a female teen using the language of her peers to describe what females in my generation would have described as "the dirty old man".

Same thing. I agree with her assessment pretty much. I saw the commercial, and was revulsed in the same way she was. We both saw the commercial while watching tv together, and neither of us had any knowledge of it prior to seeing it. We weren't reacting to Dylan per se, but to the image of an old man leering at a young female "angel". Today's female teens don't make many distinctions between older male/young female pornography and pedophilia.

Older men may not like the fact that today's female teens view the world that way, but that is the way most of them see it.

Here is an excerpt from an article in yesterday's Minneapolis Star Tribune, which reflects the girls' realities (I quote from it and provide the link, because the Star Tribune links only last about 48-72 hours):

http://www.startribune.com/stories/535/4698537.html


"Last update: March 31, 2004 at 11:24 PM
Workplace often ugly for young women
H.J. Cummins, Star Tribune
April 1, 2004HARASS0401
At 16, Erin Ceynar worked the counter at a fast food restaurant in a small Minnesota town. Some of the guys at this, her first job, enjoyed sharing the details of their girlfriends' sexual favors. Her boss drank his coffee from a mug shaped like a woman's breast.

"I felt creeped out, violated in a way I couldn't even have described at the time," said Ceynar, now 30 and a manager at the Women's Foundation of Minnesota. "But I didn't say anything. I was thinking of sexual harassment like rape scenes in movies, where people were hiding in the bushes. I knew these people. I even liked them. So, how could I think something was wrong about them?"

It was an ugly introduction to life as a working woman, but it's the one that greets one in three young Minnesota women in their earliest jobs, according to a new study out of the University of Minnesota. Experts call it a rare look at sexual harassment of young workers -- amid research that so far has concentrated on adults at work or young people in school."

My daughter said the Dylan Victoria's Secret commercial "creeped her out in a Dru Sjodin sort of way".

Who is Dru Sjodin? Go here:

Dru Sjodin story of coed abducted leaving her Victoria's Secret job

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 01:55 PM

Let's not confuse two separate issues Guest.   What that article points to is a huge problem and should not be tolerated. No person should have to work in any condition like the one described. Sexual harrassement is something that we cannot accept. It must be fought.

However, to compare that to the Dylan commercial seems odd. The fact that Dylan is an older man does not make him a "dirty old man". You interpret his look as a "leer", but I don't think there was a single scene where he actually looked directly at the woman. This was not a "girl" but an adult.   There was nothing inappropriate in either actors actions.

There is a difference, and unfortunately not every male sees it, between appropriate conduct and unwanted advances.   There is no reason to hide from sexuality and admiring the looks of another is not wrong. The problem becomes when looks and lust become the sole intent, and it is hard to draw that type of inference from the commercial that I viewed.

And an aside to PeterT - Dylan NEVER "sold out". He was always himself, and that is the message.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: GUEST,02 Apr 04 - 08:45 AM
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:04 PM

I think older men are going to interpret the commercial quite differently from young women who often don't make any distinctions whatsoever between workplace sexual harassment, and sexual harassment in general. Young women also report a pretty high incidence of sexual harassment by older males while in junior and senior high, as well harassment by male teens.

Teen sexual harassment in the schools is a phenomenon closely associated with bullying, BTW.

I don't think a young woman like my daughter, living, working in a job with high public visibility, and going to college, makes the same distinctions older men do about these things. Why? It should be obvious. Older men rarely (if ever, I've never heard of a single actual incident of over-40 men being sexually harassed, despite the Michael Douglas factor) are victims of sexual assault, abduction by a sexual predator, or workplace sexual harassement. And it goes without saying, that in academic settings, it would be pretty rare to see an over-40 male in a position of being victimized, as they are the ones who usually hold the positions of power over younger women.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:11 PM

Shatner would have been marvelous for a Victoria's Secret ad, and would certainly not have turned it down. He is much less ambivalent about females than Bob Dylan, and would definitely have looked right at the model with rapt attention and an appreciative smirk, no doubt. I am frankly amazed that Victoria's Secret did not realize this and insist on having Shatner. Still, getting Bob in the ad was a notable coup for them, of course.

- LH

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:23 PM

I agree with everything you say guest, but I just don't see the connection to the Bob Dylan commercial. I guess my interpretation comes with age.

It sounds like your daughter has suffered from some sort of harrassement, and if that is the case I am truly sorry. I do know women who have suffered the same injustice and it can not be tolerated.

Perhaps it is because I a male, or perhaps there is something with the geographic and cultural differences of our situation, but I also know that the situation that you describe is not necessarily the "norm" everywhere.   People can celebrate beauty and sexuality without infringing on others.   I do not consider the Dylan commercial to be "pornography", nor do I think that the woman is being vicitimized.   While I do respect the opinion that you share with your daughter, I do think there has to be a line drawn on what is appropriate and what is inappropriate.

Subject: RE: Bob Dylan for Victoria's Secret
From: Peter T.
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:27 PM

I think growing that creepy Vincent Price mustache went to his head, and he decided to be a creep.

yours,

Peter T.