BS: Let's talk about the US election

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:07 AM

I am sure that the turnip is misogynistic enough to believe that American Men will just send 'their' women out to do the low paid work that they do not want to do themselves - of course making time to keep the houses clean and put dinners on their tables and other acts of servitude the see fit; all of which seems to be normalised in the turnips narrative and rhetoric. Enjoy your misogynistic patriarchy.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:29 AM

I get a distinct impression that the Orange Turnip thinks that, if he imposes a 60% tariff on imports from China, the Chinese will be the ones who have to pay.

I’d say he’s a half-wit, but I don’t think he’s that smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:51 AM

I bought eggs last week for under $2.50 a dozen.

Benjamin Franklin said we have a Republic if we can keep it.
We had a pretty good run with some close calls but now it's done.
With a moratorium on all infectious disease research.
The four horsemen are running hard and will be put away wet.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 07:10 AM

So how much will domestic goods go up by if their is going to be a 60% surcharge on the cost of supply chain components?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 07:51 AM

I'm somehow envisaging an Underground Railway of secret vaccinators, and investigations run by a vastly expanded FBI (apply for a transfer quick if you're a civil servant) hunting them and tracking them by the areas where children aren't dying of tubercular meningitis, polio and measles-pneumonia.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 10:03 PM

I just heard this song playing in my Hubby's car and the timing seemed appropriate. (True confession: I'm not a fan of Leonard Cohen and I find it difficult deciphering song lyrics when I hear them. I have to read them rather than listen to them.)

Democracy - a song by Leonard Cohen

When I heard him sing the line "Democracy is coming to the U.S.A" I said, "no it isn't".

But reading the lyrics I can see how relevant the song is at present, even though it was written 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 12:53 AM

We began as a racist sexist democracy and are currently a kakistocracy
which is government by the worst.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 03:50 AM

”We began as a racist sexist democracy and are currently a kakistocracy
which is government by the worst.”

Not until 1/20/25.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 04:17 AM

The Coming Era of the Kakistokrats.

One thing is good news, though; among RFK's daffy ideas is one sensible thought - the fact that Americans have learned to eat terribly badly, and Big Food is doing nothing good but only producing Big People.

If he can develop this into cooking-from-scratch nutritious meals produced by students in every school - and every school to have a good canteen and kitchen, of course, this would be good.

If he can develop his thoughts on this further to get all students riding bicycles or walking to schools, and to reduce the use of cars (with its accompanying indebtedness) in towns and cities, America would become a hell of a lot healthier.

If he can also influence whoever is in charge of transport to change American trains so that there are affordable, efficient train services from city to city across the country, there could be the start of real hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 11:08 AM

Right now with the outrageous appointments Trump is testing the House and Senate to see what he can get away with.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 06:44 PM

Each candidate is worse than the prior one which distracts how bad they are. The strategy is Bannon's destruction of the administrative state. Replace with a despot and rid themselves of any inconvenient laws.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut or two. If Trump lowers credit card interest to 10%, that would be good. If RFK can reduce pesticides in food, that would be good as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 09:36 PM

But at what cost? That's the problem.

Those of us who worry about helping others have been gutted - those who only wanted the price of gas or groceries to change are probably in for a surprise. Want to stay healthy? Go back to wearing masks because if Kennedy gets in the continuation of new COVID and Flu vaccines may be in limbo for a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 01:19 AM

"I can summarise American politics in one sentence. Republicans have no principles, Democrats have no spine" says Allan Lichtman, a forecaster who got it wrong, after condemning Democrats for their blame game.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 08:39 AM

> Right now with the outrageous appointments Trump
> is testing the House and Senate to see what he can
> get away with.

As it happens, after hearing about the latest horror appointment, I remarked to Herself this morning: "He's playing push-the-parent."

> kakistocracy

Bingo.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 09:33 AM

”> kakistocracy”

Ha! I had to look that up to find out what it means. Defines The New Gilead perfectly.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 09:54 AM

I first learned that term during the last Trump administration. What goes around comes around.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:23 PM

.... as opposed to "khakistrocracy", which is rule by army officers.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:39 PM

Oooo. Good comeback, MaJoC.

For those who are abroad in particular, getting a good left and right view of things is sometimes a challenge. There is a radio show from Los Angeles called KCRW's Left, Right & Center that does hour-long deep dives on subjects. This week (the Nov. 15, 2024 program) the topic is the Trump nominations and what they might mean (and how people can choose to view them). Here is the description of the content this week:

A cabinet full of characters
President-elect Donald Trump announced a handful of buzzworthy cabinet appointments over the past few days. Trump has already announced his picks for the secretaries of State, Homeland Security and Defense. Those picks - Marco Rubio, Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth, respectively - were controversial enough before Trump announced his choice of Florida senator Matt Gaetz for Attorney General. Gaetz's selection has drawn scrutiny from both sides of the aisle. Was the media meltdown over Gaetz what Trump wanted all along? How will Trump's picks affect his executive governing? Another contentious appointment this week was Trump's announcement of former ICE director Tom Homan as "border czar." Homan has outlined in interviews a plan for mass deportations of migrant families, including people born in the United States. Trump's stance on immigration and border security were major drivers in his election victory. Many in the GOP see voters election of Trump as a mandate on immigration and support for his mass deportation proposal. But after voters in many states supported Trump for President and voted down Democrats on the ballot, is that true? Did voters really want Trump's policies, or just his leadership? Kamala Harris's presidential defeat inspired plenty of introspection from the Democratic Party. Critics say the Democrats relied too heavily on identity politics and not enough on policy for the win. What role did sexism play in Harris's loss? Is it as simple as the United States not being ready for a woman president?

You can listen from the site or get it via Spotify and other Podcast sites. If you can't connect directly to the link use a VPN to get here from wherever you are.

I've heard about half of the program (started in the car, finishing listening in the house) but will go back and listen from the start. I think will help - you might need a BINGO card to keep track of some of the players, but it's worthwhile to understand where we are today with Trump trying to alarm people.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:19 PM

Kakistocracy comes from ancient Greece. They must have encountered this problem a time or two to have a word for it.

During election week the top Google search was 'did Biden drop out?'

Stilly, Kamala's turnout among women was low, and even lower among men. I believe she did not do as well as Hillary. shrug

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 06:23 PM

Listen to the podcast I linked to, Don. They discuss that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 08:49 AM

For those who are abroad in particular, getting a good left and right view of things is sometimes a challenge,
quote stilly river sage
No, it is not a challenge, it is easier than you think

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 09:04 AM

And cacastocracy is rule by James II of England.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 10:41 AM

> What goes around

*Urgh*: in this context, that made me think of a lavatory being flushed ....

> comes around

.... now it's running backwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 12:22 PM

Perhaps I should have qualified it as one that we over here agree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 02:42 PM

A page out of the 3rd Reich is about banning labor unions.
The President-elect has begun the process by stabbing the heart of organized labor in the US. If she wants to Stilly could explain the process or you could Google it yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:46 AM

Labour unions? What's this?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:55 AM

I am intrigued, The democrats have lost the election, but Biden has just pushed through an aggressive foreign policy with RUSSIA,after his party has been voted out, how Democratic is that, to put the rest of the world at risk of a world war.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:20 AM

Biden is still President until January. Do you think all presidential work should have a 2 month hiatus?

To see what Trump did after losing (although not according to him) the presidential election in 2020 there is a list Here

Post election actions start with item 135 in the list.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:17 PM

Trump actually said that the wages of US workers are “too high”. He insulted the nation’s workers by insisting their pay is too high because from Trump’s billionaire, pro-business viewpoint, that makes it too hard for US companies to compete. Trump said that workers’ pay was too high even though corporate profits and the stock market were booming at the time.

Trump suggested that automakers in the midwest move some operations to the south so that they could reduce their workers’ wages – the last thing that workers want. “You can go to different parts of the United States.” Trump said that after the auto industry in the midwest “loses a couple of plants – all of sudden you’ll make good deals [to lower workers’ wages] in your own area”.

Trump praised the idea of firing workers who are on strike, even though that is illegal under federal law. In a conversation with his billionaire campaign supporter Elon Musk, Trump applauded the idea of corporations telling their striking workers: “You’re all gone.” “You’re the greatest cutter,” Trump told Musk. “I look at what you do. You walk in and say: ‘You want to quit?’ I won’t mention the name of the company, but they go on strike and you say: ‘That’s OK. You’re all gone.’”

Trump tried to portray himself as a regular worker by donning an apron for a photo op at a McDonald’s in Pennsylvania, but the fact is, Trump has never been a worker and has always been an owner. As an owner, he has always had management’s interest at heart, particularly when it comes to workers. If Trump really wanted to be a worker, rather than an owner, he certainly could have been. Trump, who always wanted to be a billionaire and be in glitzy headlines, insults workers’ intelligence when says he always wanted to be a McDonald’s worker. “I’ve always wanted to work at McDonald’s, but I never did.”

Trump insulted the nation’s factory workers by saying their jobs are such a cinch that children can do them. By saying that, he showed he has very little understanding of blue-collar jobs and how hard, exhausting and sometimes dangerous they are. In a recent speech to the Economic Club of Chicago, Trump talked about auto assembly plant jobs as if they’re as simple as a child assembling Lego. “They [workers] don’t build cars. They take’em out of a box, and they assemble’em. We could have our child do it.”

Trump said he hates overtime pay. In a speech last month in Pennsylvania, he revealed how stingy he is toward workers by saying he tried to minimize what he paid his workers by always making sure he avoided paying time-and-a-half overtime pay. “I hated to give overtime. I hated it. I shouldn’t say this, but I’d get other people in. I wouldn’t pay. I hated it.”

To win support from workers, Trump, after driving past several closed factories and steel mills in Ohio, made a marvelous promise. He sounded like the pied piper when he told thousands of workers in Youngstown that all of Ohio’s lost factory jobs would be coming back with him as president. Trump even told Ohio workers not to move, promising them that the jobs would come back. But the truth is that hardly any of those factory jobs came back. Indeed, General Motors closed its giant assembly plant in nearby Lordstown not long after Trump gave his Youngstown speech. “Those jobs have left Ohio. They’re all coming back. They’re all coming back. “Don’t move. Don’t sell your house.”

Shawn Fain, the president of the United Auto Workers (UAW), is one of the country’s most successful and respected union leaders. Fain led a major strike last fall that won 25% raises from GM, Ford and Stellantis/Chrysler and the restoration of cost-of-living adjustments, plus 68% raises for new workers. Despite Fain’s huge successes, Trump said at the Republican convention that Fain should be “fired immediately”. Why in the world was a presidential candidate saying that such a respected, inspiring union leader should be fired? That’s improper interference in union affairs, and what Trump was calling for would seriously hurt the UAW’s huge momentum and successes. “The leader of the United Auto Workers should be fired immediately.”

Trump lied to the country’s workers and insulted their intelligence when he said he always paid contractors and workers on time and what they’re supposed to be paid. Before he became president, he was notorious for paying construction contractors and workers late and for refusing to pay them the amount he had promised to pay; sometimes he would pay tens of thousands of dollars less than he was contracted to pay. Hundreds of contractors and workers had sued Trump after he failed to pay them or after he insisted on paying them far less than what the contract called for. “We pay everybody what they’re supposed to be paid, and we pay everybody on time.”

Trump actually told union members that they shouldn’t pay their union dues. By saying this, Trump was essentially seeking to sabotage the country’s labor unions. If workers refuse to pay their union dues, that would greatly weaken unions and their ability to fight for higher wages, better benefits, improved working conditions. Profit-maximizing corporations would love it if workers stopped paying their union dues and that undermined unions’ ability to battle for better things for workers. “I’m telling you, you shouldn’t pay those dues.”

Steven Greenhouse is a journalist and author, focusing on labour and the workplace
https://www.afge.org/article/the-secret-white-house-memo-inside-trumps-plan-to-destroy-unions/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/23/trump-anti-worker-union-statements

---

You linked to AFGE but actually copy/pasted from the Guardian. In future use a small amount of the article and post the link with the article. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 04:44 PM

Thompson, what Donuel may have hinted at regarding labor unions
concerns the National Labor Relations Board, or NLRB.
This entity was affected by the first Trump administration,
apparently not in a good way for union workers.
Then there is the presence of Elon Musk,
who is ... not pro-union.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:44 PM

The TV doctor Mehmet Oz appears to be headed to the cabinet. No surprise there - anyone who Trump has seen on TV is a candidate for his insider group. He's pushed as much or more crackpot stuff as Kennedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 11:16 PM

Trump's new best buddy Musk is in cahoots with Putin. How can we tell?

An undersea communications cable between Lithuania and Sweden has been damaged in the Baltic Sea, public broadcaster LRT reported on Nov. 18.

Andrius Šemeškevicius, the chief technology officer of Lithuanian telecommunications company Telia, stated the cable was cut on Nov. 17, around 10 a.m.

“The systems immediately reported that we lost the connection,” LRT quoted Šemeškevicius.

“Further investigation determined that it was damaged.”

The damaged cable is one of the three that connect Lithuania to the internet. While overall data traffic throughput capacity has been reduced, connectivity for Lithuanian users remains stable, he added.

He also told CNN that the disruptions were likely caused by physical damage to the cable itself.

“We can confirm that internet traffic disruptions were not caused by equipment failure but by physical damage to the fiber-optic cable,” Šemeškevicius stated."

It's handy that Musk has a starlink satellite service he can sell to those folks whose cables are damaged. Does Trump care? Probably not. Does he know what Musk is up to? Who can say. But letting Musk tamper with the US Government operations doesn't bode well for anyone except Musk. If photos could post here I'd put up an image of the fox guarding the hen house.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 11:30 PM

What a sad mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 12:58 AM

Just saw a photo of the lads on the plane eating McD's. Does this mean that RHK has been chosen to be the boy that everyone bullies and laughs at?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 02:30 AM

Nigel, since when has Trump been an arbiter of what is morally right. The democrats were defeated overwhelmingly, the voters rejected them and their policies, in my opinion that means they no longer have a mandate to make important decisions, the same would apply if trump had been in power and lost the election.
A sad reflection of the morality of USA Politicians, Biden was funded billions by armament manufacturers so he had to do their bidding , never mind the voters who no longer gave him a mandate,so much for democracy

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 02:45 AM

Nigel is absolutely right - although the election was in November, the Term of Office begins on 6th January. Until then, Biden is the POTUS, just as Trump continued to be the POTUS from the election on 3rd November 2019 until Biden’s Term began on 20th January, 2020.

Nothing difficult to understand there.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 07:51 AM

you appear NOT to understand my point, about what is morally right and representing voters not corporations,the voters rejected the DEMOCRATS AND THEIR POLICIES, Nothing difficult to understand there

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 08:37 AM

There’s no need to SHOUT. Shouting is for rude, aggressive people, and does you no credit whatsoever. If you feel the need to emphasise a point, try underlining, emboldening, Or italicising the words.

And you appear not to understand Nigel’s point and mine - that Biden is, in every respect, the POTUS until Trump’s inauguration on 20th January, and it is both his right and responsibility carry out his Presidential duties until that date, making whatever decisions he feels right and necessary.

Did you read the list Nigel linked to, of Presidential actions taken by Trump during his interregnum period? If not, you should, it might open your eyes a little.

I recommend that you educate yourself by reading this piece from The Economic Times.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 11:04 AM

Sandman:
Nigel, since when has Trump been an arbiter of what is morally right.

That is something I never claimed.
In school many decades ago, we were taught 'comprehension' which meant reading something, and understanding its meaning. It did not include shading what you read depending upon your own pre-conceptions!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 12:56 PM

Democrats weren't defeated overwhelmingly. The numbers are coming in - it's the electoral college count that matters (still, for now anyway, if we can't get rid of it.) Trump’s win has been described as resounding. It was closer than you think
The vice president improved on Biden’s margins in some swing states, but Trump swept them all

Despite the popular vote, Harris could have won the 2024 — or at least made it significantly closer — if she had just maintained Biden’s figures in a few key states such as Pennsylvania and Michigan.

This year, Harris lost to Trump by only 780,000 votes in the swing states, compared to 3.2 million nationally under current vote counts. So it would have taken the VP flipping just under one million votes into those areas to be the president-elect today.

It's that win the popular vote but lose the election thing - the electoral college put Trump in the last time. It would have been ironic if it had put Harris in this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 01:18 PM

780 thousand is a fair majority.
He won.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 05:33 PM

SAD MESS? Dr. Phil is probably suffering from clinical depression over the cabinet appointment of Dr Snake Oil OZ.
After all, Oz had more daytime Emmys than Phil.

Telecommuting is to be banned. Zoom meetings have been SOP since the pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 05:45 PM

Big Al, it is only a win if the electoral college says so - and if that particular batch of voters had gone to Kamala even if she didn't have the popular vote he would have lost.

Also he didn't have 50% of the vote (as the numbers continue to be firmed up) so his claim of a "mandate" is nonsense. He's going to fuss about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 06:10 PM

I find it a bit odd that Dr Oz is so whacky as a potential politician. When I was teaching at adult education colleges I had different classes at different times and places and I happened to be able to watch his daytime show for about a year. I usually found him and the topics covered fairly sensible and factually accurate, as far as I could tell. He was able to relate to the mostly female studio audience and guests on the show without negative biases - again, as far as I could see.

I was very surprised to learn of his political aspirations.

Life is full of surprises, in this day and age.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 05:04 AM

SRS:
This year, Harris lost to Trump by only 780,000 votes in the swing states, compared to 3.2 million nationally under current vote counts. So it would have taken the VP flipping just under one million votes into those areas to be the president-elect today.

To overturn a margin of 780,000 votes doesn't need one million 'flips'. It's less than half that figure.
Each vote 'flipped' would reduce Trump's votes by 1, and increase Harris's by 1. so 390,001 'flips' would do the trick. (adjust to allow for weird voting systems)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 05:21 AM

flippin' heck!

Look! You've got to face facts. Many , too many people have voted for this Trump plonker.

Something has gone wrong with your educational system. Something has gone wrong. Perhaps several things.

We feel sorry for you, but its only you that can sort this out. We have our own problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:40 AM

Speaking of education, McMahon of Worldwide Wrestling is the new Department of Education director.

Oklahoma will be purchasing Trump bibles for their students.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:47 AM

”Oklahoma will be purchasing Trump bibles for their students”

If that’s true, then they clearly don’t ‘get’ irony in Oklahoma. It’s obviously lost on them that Trump is the personification of The Seven Deadly Sins - envy, gluttony, avarice, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:56 AM

God is not going to sort this mess out. America has to do it for itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 08:13 AM

We're definitely transitioning into an Idiocracy.