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BS: The Debates: Members Only
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Subject: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Bobert Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:10 AM Well, the other "Debates" thread has been closed because it was highjacked by one ecertain GUEST and Joe Offer says that if we wnat a thread on the debates then we need a "members only" one so... ...given the fact that we have 3 more debates before the election I thought that now would be a good time to0 start the thread.... (I'm not sure what mechanism is in place to keep GUEST's out other than manually deleting their posts but that, I guess, is something for the moderators...) B~
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Stilly River Sage Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:34 AM I think I will record the VP debate and watch it in slow doses. I don't know if I can stand to sit straight through 90 minutes of such a lopsided contest. Biden will be verbally dueling with an un-armed opponent, or forced to suffer soft inconsequential pitches to compensate for Palin's lack of experience. I don't think Gwen will let THAT happen. The Presidential debates will be interesting. Long, but interesting. The troll who closed the last thread is typical of those who turn up here--they found a site that doesn't require membership to post and they aren't interested in the raison d'etre of the Mudcat site. They want to duke it out anonymously in a political discussion. Nasty as they want to be. Delete. Repeat. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Barry Finn Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:50 AM Well I don't expect much from the VP debate. I feel it will be to embrassing to MaCain once it's all over but I keep saying to myself wait & see, she may hold up after all but I think she's gonna resort to some low life form of puggilism. She's a fair boxer till she's in a corner, then it's just thrashing about for her. "I'll have to get back to you one this one". I don't see MaCain doing any better than he did in the first round, miore likely worst, I think we've seen him at his best but I feel as if Obama's only getting warmed up with much more to come. Well, I can only hope for a better showing, cause it's not all that bright from where I'm getting rained on. Barry |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Bill D Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:54 AM I expect Palin to do as has been mentioned in other threads...have several memorized stock answers to various issues and plug them in wherever possible, but with fervor...causing her supporters and hard-core conservative to assert that "she did just fine, and it's not really necessary for her to be an 'expert' on every issue." |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: kendall Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:54 AM I predict that Joe Biden will field dress Caribou Barbie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Donuel Date: 30 Sep 08 - 08:56 AM oooooo members only, do we need armbands? IF we let Sarah be Sarah (whatever that entails) we can let trolls be trolls. I will miss the Debate thread, especially my observation that at the end, it was Obama that walked 70 ft across the stage to reach across the aisle to shake John McCain's hand, which incensed John so much he immedietly began blaming his manager for allowing that "stunt" to occur. |
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Subject: BS: Regarding debate in general From: GUEST,Slag Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:32 PM I was sorry to see the "Debates" thread get side tracked and degenerate into something ugly. Anyone who has participated in formal debate can only shudder or at least shake their heads at what is foisted onto the public as "debate". There was a good conversation in the first part of that thread. With regards to the "Presidential Debates" ( a misnomer as it should be the "Presidential Candidates Debate"), I thought it was rather disturbing that Lehere kept trying to get Obama and McCain to talk directly to each other. Obama tried to follow that direction a couple of times and McCain resisted it altogether and rightly so. The TOPIC ought to be addressed, not personalities. This is why formal debate is always in the third person if personage is addressed at all. I would like to think that Obama also resisted this blatant prodding to "square off" at his opponent. Both men did a fine job in articulating their positions and ideas as well as points of difference. This really was one of the better debates I have watched. You have two very intelligent and articulate gentlemen for candidates. The BS portion of this forum also has some very freewheeling debate and dialog and that is one of the main reasons, apart form the music, that I keep coming back here. I like the passion and the honesty (in most cases!) of the posters. I AM sorry to see some who, when they run out of wit, resort to viciousness and name calling. That has no place in the debate. And that little bit of information ought to be passed on to Mr. Lehere also. An after-thought: I also have to recognize that a large percentage of Americans like things like Jerry Springer and Maury Povich and they want to see fireworks and name-calling. That may make great daytime TV but it really has no place in the serious consideration for the selection of the President of this powerful and influential country |
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Subject: RE: BS: Regarding debate in general From: heric Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:37 PM I agree – when Lehrer did that it was downright weird. Openly and unashamedly taking time out for choreographing? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Regarding debate in general From: Stringsinger Date: 30 Sep 08 - 03:40 PM A true debate deals with issues, not personalities. There hasn't been a decent Presidential debate in decades. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Slag Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM No, I hadn't seen that thread yet. Maybe I should reclaim my cookie and sign in as the member I am and join that thread. I've had so many computer problems that I'm a little "cookie-shy" right now! Not mentioning any names but some Guest appear to be a characterization of left's idea of what a conservative is. Big Mick really hit the nail on the head! TROLL, tossing incendiaries! Such ham-handed chummers should be shunned from the get-go. If no one rises to "de bait" then the threads are much more likely to remain intact. It's been my experience that "Button-pushers" just keep upping the ante until someone is so offended that they react. It's an evil game and if you happen to smell one of these turds floating by in our portion of the cyber stream a mod needs to be notified and have the offense REMOVED! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Amos Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM HEar, hear. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Slag Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:24 PM I wish to apologize for my choice of verbage. Just now I realized I was doing the very thing I was decrying. I let that Troll raise my ire to an uncivil level. With true regret, again, I apologize. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 30 Sep 08 - 04:25 PM When I woke up this morning, NPR news was quietly playing on the radio, and as I was dozing, I suddenly thought, "Tina Fey is on NPR!" Then I realized it was Palin's voice. I cringe watching her being interviewed. I won't be able to bear watching the debate. I'll read the transcript online while it is happening. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Beer Date: 30 Sep 08 - 06:42 PM I plan on watching maybe the last 1/2 hour if that is possible. Her high pitched winding voice reminds me of some commercials where by I turn the sound to mute. Beer (adrien) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: katlaughing Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:25 PM I think I'll turn on the closed captioning and mute the whole thing! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:32 PM that's a good idea, kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Bobert Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:34 PM Yeah, Beer, her voice does kinda grate on ya'... Reminds my of a cranky elementary school teacher who needs to get laid... Ahhhh, not that I am volunteering for the job, mind you, even if she is a fox... But, yeah, her voice is alot like fingernails on the chalk board... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Beer Date: 30 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM You just sent chill's up my spine in saying that Bobert. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 01 Oct 08 - 10:01 AM Andrew Halcro has an op-ed in the Christian Science Monitor about his experience in debating Sarah Palin: I should know. I've debated Governor Palin more than two dozen times. And she's a master, not of facts, figures, or insightful policy recommendations, but at the fine art of the nonanswer, the glittering generality. Against such charms there is little Senator Biden, or anyone, can do. On paper, of course, the debate appears to be a mismatch. snip On April 18, 2006, Palin and I sat together in a hotel coffee shop comparing campaign trail notes. As we talked about the debates, Palin made a comment that highlights the phenomenon that Biden is up against. "Andrew, I watch you at these debates with no notes, no papers, and yet when asked questions, you spout off facts, figures, and policies, and I'm amazed. But then I look out into the audience and I ask myself, 'Does any of this really matter?' " Palin said. While policy wonks such as Biden might cringe, it seemed to me that Palin was simply vocalizing her strength without realizing it. During the campaign, Palin's knowledge on public policy issues never matured – because it didn't have to. Her ability to fill the debate halls with her presence and her gift of the glittering generality made it possible for her to rely on populism instead of policy. Palin is a master of the nonanswer. She can turn a 60-second response to a query about her specific solutions to healthcare challenges into a folksy story about how she's met people on the campaign trail who face healthcare challenges. All without uttering a word about her public-policy solutions to healthcare challenges. So what does that mean for Biden? With shorter question-and-answer times and limited interaction between the two, he should simply ignore Palin in a respectful manner on the stage and answer the questions as though he were alone. Any attempt to flex his public-policy knowledge and show Palin is not ready for prime time will inevitably cast him in the role of the bully. On the other side of the stage, if Palin is to be successful, she needs to do what she does best: fill the room with her presence and stick to the scripted sound bites. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: dick greenhaus Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM Well, the VP candidate debate ha already been a success for McCain. Considering it as a Weapon of Mass Distraction, it's really cut down on the amount of time and space the media has been devoting to McCain's floundering over the past couple of weeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Alice Date: 01 Oct 08 - 11:28 AM being skilled at distraction |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Ron Davies Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:11 AM Of course the other problem with the VP debate is that now the expectations are so low for dear Sarah that if she is semi-coherent, it will be counted as a triumph. And she will do nothing but attack Obama. So I can already predict the Friday headline: "Gov Palin Shatters the 'Clueless' Image; Pit Bull Returns". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Oct 08 - 10:16 AM If it looks like a troll and sounds like a troll. . . Urqhart, you're a troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Amos Date: 02 Oct 08 - 10:20 AM A series of very smart questions that should be posed to the Veeps. And Urq, you may not be a troll in your own eyes, but in others' you are being, at least, an arrogant and conceited bigot. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: PoppaGator Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:41 PM Who's Urquhart? Was a post deleted? I'm willing to defer to the sensibilities of others, but nasty messages don't bother me nearly as much as messages that refer to other posts that I can't see and can't judge for myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: John MacKenzie Date: 02 Oct 08 - 12:59 PM He made a racist post, which has now gone. Don't think you'd want to see that left visible. XG |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: PoppaGator Date: 02 Oct 08 - 01:46 PM Thanks, John, I suppose that's enough to satisfy my curiosity. Is this person a member? Or did his post temporarily slip past the "members only" qualification for this discussion? I suppose there's no way to enforce "members only" except retroactively... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Bobert Date: 02 Oct 08 - 07:35 PM I don't think this person was a member, P-Gator... And I really can't say that his writing style reminded me of any past members or even GUESTs... I thought that it was satire but this GUEST did step way over the line... Now back to the debates... Seems that Biden can't win for losin' tonight... He has a couple hundred rules he has to foloow to a "T" in order to break even and Ms. Sarah just needs to complete her sentences to be declared the winner... Seems like a dual standard to me but, hey??? B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 02 Oct 08 - 09:36 PM She's killing him! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: TIA Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:26 PM ...anything your heart desires, your dreams come true.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: GUEST,heric Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:28 PM I only watched twenty minutes, but I saw her wink twice. It certainly is a novelty. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:36 PM She's charming, but she is not qualified, and when she got questions she didn't want to answer she answered with the closest talking point she had learned. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Stilly River Sage Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:39 PM I should say that I was HOPING for a Palin train wreck tonight, and she avoided that, but she didn't have many citations in the form of documentable chapter and verse to drop into the conversation. It will be interesting to see what the fact checker folks come up with. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Donuel Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:43 PM The one newsorthy announcement Palin made was the constituional expansion of the powers of the Vice Presidency. What constitutional ammendment was that? Being a memeber of both the executive branch and legislative branch? The power to go to war? What? The Palin non answers and attack phrases such as democrats waving the white flag of surrender will be the most common salient commentaries. So let me make an observation no one else will... In high definition I noticed that her chest and neck were full of thousands of skin tags (a skin condition of skin growths). This condition can be extreme or minor depending upon the area of skin involved. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Donuel Date: 02 Oct 08 - 11:59 PM I should know since I have about a dozen myself but she has countless skin tags on just the visible area of her neck and upper chest. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Oct 08 - 12:07 AM They appeared to both be conducting themselves rather well, and engaging in predictable rhetoric from their own points of view while they engaged mainly in attacking the other side's presidential candidate (and/or the past errors of the Bush administration, which are legion). I found Biden's points of view more tolerable when it comes to foreign policy, but that was no surprise. Sarah Palin showed that she is not nearly as incompetent under pressure as most people here would fervently wish she was... ;-) But McCain's policies and general attitude toward the world still stink to high heaven regardless, whereas Obama's are considerably more reasonable. Israelis will mostly be delighted if McCain wins in November. Just about every other nation in the world will be horrified if he is elected president. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Janie Date: 03 Oct 08 - 12:07 AM She spoke in sound bites. I didn't watch it - listened to it on Public Radio, so I missed the winks. It is pretty scary to me that McCain, whom I have generally respected to the extent I respect any politician even while strongly disagreeing with him, has chosen her to be his running mate. I thought he cared about this country in close to the same measure he cares about his ambitions to be president. Like Maggie said, she certainly sounded charming, but there is little or no substance. She has an ideology without depth of knowledge. She had been handed a script and knew not to veer from it. I found it curious that she persistently invoked Reagan. I don't much identify with all the hockey and soccer mom stuff. I always feel like a fish out of water at my son's soccer and lacrosse games and practices. Her world is very small. Biden handled himself very well, I thought, and clearly demonstrated he has the knowledge and experience to step in as president if that should be necessary. He actually answered the questions, and intelligently refuted Palin's "sound bite" assertions and rebuttals. Palin didn't lose any votes for McCain among those who are already in his camp, or have one foot there and the other already moving in that direction. But i don't think she gained any votes for him among those who are still undecided. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Little Hawk Date: 03 Oct 08 - 12:23 AM "I found it curious that she persistently invoked Reagan." You do, Jeri? Why? Hell, he's virtually a secular saint to most conservative Americans. That's not the way I see him, I might add. I think his policies were a fiscal and international disaster in a number of ways...but he had the style to remain quite popular despite all of that. Why, it was almost like having "Pa Cartwright" in the White House...maybe even better! ;-) He was the perfect front man to represent the $ySStem and play "frontier daddy" to America....a Madison Avenue dream of a chief executive. Clinton was not bad at that too, but he was too sleazy. It doesn't help the "frontier daddy" image any when you fool around with the gals down at the saloon and then lie about it under oath. No siree. God-fearin' frontier daddys NEVER cheat on their wives! Leastways, not so's you'd git to hear about it, anyways. Yes, Biden handled himself very well. So did Palen, I think. No one really screwed up. Neither of them stand to lose any people who were already in favor of them anyway (note Riginslinger's delighted reaction to Palin's respectable performance and Biden's respectable performance. He thinks she destroyed Biden....heh! It's amazing how the made-up-already mind filters whatever it sees and hears to suit its preconditions, wishes, and established beliefs.). |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: GUEST,heric Date: 03 Oct 08 - 12:58 AM The twenty minutes I saw got Joe Biden an A+. My favorite moments were Palin's discussion of "Bosniacs," and her line that "McCain is the man we need to leave." Cheap laughs, I know, but deep down a slighlty nervous laugh: Even though this was just an irrelevant VP debate, it actually cemented me into an Obama vote with no more misgivings. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: DougR Date: 03 Oct 08 - 01:28 AM As I said in another thread, Gov. Palin ate Joe Biden's lunch. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Oct 08 - 07:12 AM Evidently that phrase does not have the same sexual connotation in the USA as in the UK - where "lunchbox" refers to the bulge in the front of tight shorts on a man... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Lox Date: 03 Oct 08 - 08:18 AM Sorry moderators - I forgot to log in - feel free to delete my previous post - here it is again under my logged in moniker ___________________________________ The Palin Biden debate started pretty weirdly. She seemed to put her fingers in here ears and smile. She stated that McCain has always warned about the current financial crisis, and then when she was asked by Biden to comment on McCains voting record on deregulation of the financial sector, she changed the subject to Tax. Biden pointed this out, and repeated the question, as did the moderator (just in case she didn't hear or forgot I suppose) - Palin ignored it again. She has a lot of nerve. Will Charm win Americas hearts again? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Bill D Date: 03 Oct 08 - 10:18 AM She stated she would answer the questions SHE wanted to, and not necessarily what was asked: she advocated expanding the powers OF the VP even before she has the job: she plugged in slogans and verbal flag-waving every time her knowlege wasn't up to the task: she repeated over & over...again & again...repeatedly... accusations about Obama, Biden and Democrats in general which have been disproved many times. (about how Obama 'voted', about taxes, about the status of military actions..etc.) She also keeps pretending that HER qualifications as a 'business owner' and mayor and short-term governor are sufficient to match up to Biden's 25 years in the Senate or Obama's years at various jobs. well...after all....what COULD she say? She was coached well, but she still misstated several facts and glossed over McCain's ability to switch positions with the wind, sometimes within hours or days. All in all, she, by necessity, substituted 'feisty', cute, and 'maverick' for knowlegable, qualified and educated. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Oct 08 - 10:24 AM The mainstream media is now linking phrases like "you betcha", and "doggone it," along with a few winks and clips of her cutting off her g's on words like goin', makin', and so on. This is going to rally voters behind her faster than anything else they could do or say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: TIA Date: 03 Oct 08 - 10:42 AM Hey DougR - horsepucky |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Ebbie Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:10 AM aaaaggggghhhhhhhhh Don't tell me that in Palin we have Reagan in skirts! A couple of thoughts here: I'm glad that she performed better than I feared. As a woman and an Alaskan and a politician she was not an obvious train wreck. As another woman and an Alaskan I'm glad for that. After the elections she has to return to Alaska as governor and it would have been nigh on impossible to do if she'd had to come back with her stock completely shot. This way she and her handlers can blame the "liberal media" and power-hungry Democrats for her failures. The operative word, of course, is "performed". She had good style but the main thing she demonstrated is that she can regurgitate creditably on demand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:18 AM Saw enough to tell me it wasn't worth seeing the rest. No meltdowns on either side, and anybody watchingwith a predispositiion to either cabsduadate is going to think he or she was the winner. It occurred to me that maybe maybe Palin's mispronunciations were a nod in the direction of people who like Bush. I mean stuff like "noocular" and "EyeRan". A sort of hint not to worry too much about flannel about things changing - "if Bush said it that way, it has to be the right way to say it". |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:24 AM I think this is a better place to ask what I've already referred to in another thread: At least twice, and maybe three times, in trying to bolster her experience and credibility, she said something like "I have the experience, as mayor, as governor, and as oil and gas" (or was it "energy"?) "regulator, to . . ." Have I been asleep and missed something. Has she indeed held any position as a regulator of oil and gas? If so, I've missed it. My pure guess is that she's trying to get double credit, as it were, out of her brief gubernatorial tenure, sort of saying, "Not only have I been governor, but as governor one of my functions was in regulation of the oil and gas industry." Can someone here enlighten me about her occupational background? Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:31 AM "After the elections she has to return to Alaska as governor..." Only unti January 20th, after that she'll be in Washington. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Debates: Members Only From: Riginslinger Date: 03 Oct 08 - 11:32 AM "Has she indeed held any position as a regulator of oil and gas?" She's been known to use GAS-EX tablets. |
