BS: 'Embedded media'

Subject: RE: BS: 'Embedded media'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 05:52 AM

The PBS link includes this fascinating and possibly prescient statement by General Schwartzkopf:

On the question of going to Baghdad_ if you remember the Vietnam war, we had no international legitimacy for what we did. As a result, we, first of all, lost the battle in world public opinion. Eventually, we lost the battle at home.

In the Gulf war, we had great international legitimacy in the form of eight United Nations resolutions, every one of which said, "Kick Iraq out of Kuwait." Did not say one word about going into Iraq, taking Baghdad, conquering the whole country and- and hanging Saddam Hussein. That's point number one.

Point number two- had we gone on to Baghdad, I don't believe the French would have gone and I'm quite sure that the Arab coalition would not have gone. The coalition would have ruptured and the only people that would have gone would have been the United Kingdom and the United States of America.

And, oh, by the way, I think we'd still be there. We'd be like a dinosaur in a tar pit. We could not have gotten out and we'd still be the occupying power and we'd be paying 100 percent of all the costs to administer all of Iraq.

Now, I'm 98% sure that DougR and a few others will say, "No, we're going to give the country back to the Iraqi people, we won't be staying there." How does he know that? Because the President said so on TV, and the President never lies. Let's just forget about the plans that were made public a few months ago about an American "governor" who would remain for "a year or two." Besides, General Schwartzkopf couldn't possibly know what he's talking about, could he? "A dinosaur in a tar pit" -- no, that couldn't happen. After all, this is Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Well, we can look on the bright side. If there really is going to be Iraqi Freedom, then we'll all have someplace to go when they continue to take away ours.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: 'Embedded media'
From: Rapparee
Date: 25 Mar 03 - 06:50 AM

Troll is completely correct: soldiers are NOT unthinking automatons and other soldiers don't care for any kill-crazy fools. In 'Nam and in other wars both sorts were liable to be fragged before they got others killed. (And the incident with the sergeant in the 101 Airborne was NOT fragging -- it was simply murder. Fragging was usually done to eliminate an incompetent commander, a kill-crazy fool, a the-book-says-do-it-this-way martinet, or similar sorts. The media, once again, have gotten it wrong.)

As a former Infantry platoon leader (forced into it, no officer) I can assure you that an automaton will not only end up dead, s/he will kill a bunch of others along the way. One of the few times I ever gripped a .45 pistol and was glad to have it was when I was working a night shift with a crazy who actually LIKED killing and death (he as later taken away for psychiatric are and we all breathed a sigh of relief, for him as well as for ourselves).

Battle changes too rapidly for a rigid thinker -- the WWI commanders are excellent examples of this (as is Vietnam). Battle is and actually always has been "think or die" -- history is written by the generals, battles are won by the grunt on the ground.