 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Alcoholic advice
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,Logged out Date: 24 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM I hope the reason for guest status will be obvious. My husband of nearly 40 years has for some time had a problem with over-indulgence in alcohol, to the point of what I might call standing incontinence - the old wardrobe joke etc. For several months, if not a couple of years, he has been drinking in secret, at home, again to the point of passing out. I have now had more than enough of this. I know I can't force/cajole/whatever him to stop (A couple of times in the past he has abstained completely for a year or so). The question is, how do I find the emotional strength to begin to disentangle myself from him, and in doing so, from my home, family, half my social circle, joint finances etc, when I still love the person he is when not drinking? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Amergin Date: 24 Oct 09 - 03:46 PM My suggestion is to look for support groups in your area...like Al-Anon...they are there for the spouses and children of alcoholics...Also look to your family...and friends... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: wysiwyg Date: 24 Oct 09 - 03:47 PM Hi, Whoever You Are. You have just described, perfectly, what Alanon is and does. It will not FEEL like the right thing to do/place to go, unless and until you try it. You may not stick with it, but it WILL get you started thinking in the right direction. Because it's not the program that does that trick-- it's the people there. From there, you can decide if the program is workable for you. A very wise counselor told me once that our society understands the disease model of the drinker quite well, and can describe the medical effects perfectly and the various ways alcoholism can kill.... But, he said, we don't yet quite have a handle on how co-dependence kills. Yet kill it can and kill it does. People die of it every day. It's not yet a diagnosis on a death certificate. But failing to take care of self is not the road to health and long life. Alanon can help you focus on saving your own life first, THEN-- if you have some slack left over you can think about saving someone else. IF after getting your own head healthy you still want to. :~) PM if helpful. It's an intensely busy time here, so be warned I may not reply right away. But look-- honor that "enough" feeling. It's your autopilot, trying to save you. Let it speak, even if you don't yet listen to it real well. ~Susan |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Alice Date: 24 Oct 09 - 04:10 PM http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Azizi Date: 24 Oct 09 - 04:24 PM "Logged Out": I haven't walked in your shoes but, for what it's worth, I share these thoughts with you in case they might be of some help: It seems to me that your writing this post is evidence of your taking steps away from your situation-since it means that you are thinking about the ramifications of leaving the husband who you love but whose addiction is hurting him-and also hurting you, emotionally if not in any other ways. You've written that leaving your husband means leaving "my home, family, half my social circle, joint finances etc". This list may actually be the result of your leaving-or it may be your excuses to dely doing something you really don't want to do. Since I'm not you, and not your close friend and confidente, I can't know that. However, I hope you don't think I'm cold when I say that people have survived without their home, their family, half of their social circle, and their joint finaces. It's very difficult but what has to be done, can be done. I think it's very important for you to realize that leaving your husband does not mean that you have stopoed loving him. You can love someone even if you're not living with him or her. "Logged out", have you thought about the possibility that you may be hurting your husband who you love instead of helping him by remaining in your situation? I'm sure you've read about enabling, but I know from my own experiences-though different from the one that you've described that knowing about enabling and stopping doing it are two different things. It there are other people besides you who are being harmed or who could be harmed by the person you love (because of his addictions and/or his negative behaviours)-for instance if there are underage children- than it might be emotionally "easier" to leave your husband because you're not only thinking about your love one's well being & safety, and your wellbeing & safety, but also your children's well being & safety. But even with adult children or grandchildren you can think of what lesson you are role modeling for them by staying in a relationship that is harmful to you and to your husband. I sympathize with you. And I don't have any easy answers and 1,2,3 steps. I know that sometimes a person has to give "tough love"-a love that appears to be selfish but really isn't because you're doing what you have to do because you have the long term best interest of your loved one-and you-in your mind and in your heart. Also, let me say this: It would be nice if life didn't force us to be emotionally strong until we felt we were ready. But it's been my experiences that crisis have a way of exploding on the scene and forcing people to act-whether we feel we're ready or not. Perhaps the reason for this is that even though things, or people, or we ourselves are far from the way we want them (or ourselves) to be, inertia sets in and we don't won't change unless we're forced to. I've also found that if we manage to avoid changing ourselves and our circumstances in the midst of or as a result of a particular crisis, than another, more serious crisis will eventually occur which will jolt us from our "comfortable" rut whether we're ready to change that situation-and ourselves-or not. In other words, people don't always have the luxury to wait to change things-and change themselves (meaning grow emotionally stronger or emotionally disintangle themselves) before circumstances occur that propel them out of the particular situation or situations that they are in. Beyond that, I can only say that I hope that you are doing what you can to safe guard yourself and I hope that you recognize the need to do what you must do before there is an unavoidable crisis that will make you do what you need to do. I wish you well, Azizi |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Gurney Date: 24 Oct 09 - 05:52 PM LO, I have no answers for you. I will make a couple of comments. He is a man at least in his late middle age, so it may be that the 'die is cast' and he will not change. It may be unlikely that he'll change until his family circumstances do, such as you leaving. In an exactly similar situation that I know of, both ex's are still on the folk scene, both with new partners. The drinking has become more moderate, and the current partner, a woman who strikes me as quiet but determined, (and is also an 'ex,') can live with it. The home went, but the social circle remained, because there are friends, and then there are acquaintances. My sympathies on your situation. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Alice Date: 24 Oct 09 - 06:03 PM Logged Out, I've had to make a similar decision as yours years ago, which is why I posted the link to Al-Anon. That is a good place for you to start. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: jacqui.c Date: 24 Oct 09 - 06:06 PM LO - can't give any advice but know that you will be in my thoughts. All the best, with whatever you decide to do. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,Logged out Date: 24 Oct 09 - 06:09 PM Thank you all for your thoughtful and helpful comments |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Deckman Date: 24 Oct 09 - 06:44 PM Dear "logged out" ... I mean this gently and kindly. But my advice is NOT gentle ... but it is kind to YOU. Get out and get out now. Be happy that you had the good years that you did have. But also accept that those "good years" have been ended for you. We know you would have wished it to be a better ending, but it won't happen. hugs, Bob(deckman)Nelson |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,Dani Date: 24 Oct 09 - 06:46 PM The important thing is to not be alone. You may FEEL alone sometimes, but even by posting here you recognize that you need all kinds of support, however you choose to act. There are many resources you can reach out to, based on your comfort level. Absolutely, Al-Anon. Silence, denial, is what makes the illness most powerful and deadly to the people around the drinker. I wish you peace. Check back in. Dani |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: alanabit Date: 24 Oct 09 - 07:50 PM An alcoholic will only stop drinking if he makes the decision himself. That is true of any form of drug addiction. If he has decided to stick with alcohol rather than you, I am afraid you have lost the man you love anyway. Alcoholics are prepared to lie, cheat and manipulate anyone around them so that they do not have to change their own behaviour. Above all, they lie to themselves. Inevitably they damage other people's health and well being too. My parents marriage survived until death, because my father became a dry alcoholic until my mother's passing. You can guess the rest, because he followed her two years later. In my parents case, my Dad needed my mother more than he needed alcohol. I hope the same is true in your case. He has to choose between the woman in his life and the bottle. If he forces you to, you will have to choose between living without him or living with a drunk. Sorry to be so brutal, but I have lived with this situation close at hand. I feel for you, believe me. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: SINSULL Date: 24 Oct 09 - 08:27 PM Choose the life you want and go from there. He will only change if he wants to. You can move on or stay. Either has consequences. My own decision was to run and run far. I have not regretted it. SINS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 24 Oct 09 - 09:30 PM 40 years is a LONG time.
Consider his case terminal.
Find a good lawyer. Set affairs in order.
Recruit a good friend...do a four-day-weekend...
Sincerely, |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: SharonA Date: 24 Oct 09 - 09:41 PM "Logged Out": Best wishes from yet another Mudcatter who was once in a somewhat similar situation. In my case it was a long-term live-together situation, and my boyfriend's drinking was out in the open rather than in the "closet". What WYSIWYG said about co-dependence applies to me: living with that man was killing me. I was a teetotaler before I met him, but was drinking to excess (to put it mildly) while living with him; "teaching" me to drink like a fish certainly enabled his alcoholic habit. While with him, my circle of friends devolved until it consisted mostly of his friends, partly because I didn't want my old pre-him friends to see me plotzed. When I broke up with him and moved away, I broke with that entire circle of his friends, which left me with next-to-nobody to associate with. At age 40 I had to start virtually from scratch to form a new, healthy, supportive circle. So I sympathize with you about having to do that, but I'm here to tell you that it can be done! I am worlds better for having done it. How does one find the emotional strength to do it? You've got it backwards: you have to do it in order to find the emotional strength. In my case, I left him because I finally woke up to the fact that I was in danger there with him (the wake-up call was a bruise inflicted by him while drunk). The strength to leave wasn't emotional at all; it was practical -- leave and be safe, or stay and be bruised again or worse. After the bruising, I quit drinking cold-turkey -- a one-step program (Step 1: Stop!) -- again for practical reasons (to clear my head so I could make arrangements to leave). The emotional strength came later and, like any sort of strength training, it hurt like hell at first... but as time went on I found it easier to lift my spirits. I even found it possible to drink alcoholic spirits responsibly, without feeling an urge to drink to excess. I can have a glass of wine with dinner, a beer at band rehearsal, etc. After what I've been through, the last thing I ever want to do is drink to excess again! I guess I'm not an alcoholic but I once had a drinking problem: him! As for joint finances, my experience was that I had a lot more money when he was no longer begging it from me, borrowing my debit card and disappearing with it, etc., to pay for his alcoholic habit. The same may hold true for you! You say you "still love the person he is when not drinking". I've got news for you: the person he is when not drinking is the same person he is when drinking. You can't separate them any more than he can separate himself from alcohol. He may be in better control of the darker part of himself when he's (relatively) sober, but that darker self is still there. Worse, he has no desire to exercise that self-control full-time. This means that he doesn't have enough respect or love for you to want to be at his best or to protect you from his darker self. He's not honoring the traditional marriage vows to honor you, cherish you, and forsake his most significant "other" (booze). In that sense, he has already divorced himself from you. All that's left is to file the paperwork. You can leave, and you know that you must leave. Frankly, you don't have to be all that strong to do the deed of leaving. The challenge will be to stay away and keep your resolve not to cave in and go back under whatever pressures will be exerted on you. That's when the emotional strength-training will really begin. Just keep reminding yourself of all the things that are better about your life when he's not in it, and all the things that suck about your life when he is in it. Above all, start loving yourself as much as he ought to be loving you but isn't. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST, Elfcall Date: 25 Oct 09 - 03:55 AM Logged Out, I was a widower at 30 because my wife was an alcoholic and WYSIWYG I did manage to get the word alcoholism onto the DC but it took effort and that was in the UK. Only your partner can change his behaviour - and only if he wants to - and after 40 years I doubt he has either the mental strength or the physical capability to overcome his dependency without serious medical intervention. So the next step is looking after yourself by whatever means necessary. You are not responsible for his actions and you cannot stop him. When I left my wife for my own welfare and health- she drank more heavily and was admitted to hospital seriously ill and dying within 2 days. My actions initiated the binge but her actions were ultimately her own responsibility. My wife was in ICU and fitting and hallucinating, etc - she survived and had a second chance but decided she would not take it, indeed I feel she could not take it - her shame was too much for her to overcome and died about 6 months later at 38. She weighed just 5 1/2 stone. She was a bright educated woman, a head of modern languages in a large comprehensive. There are support systems out there for both parties - I wish I had sought more support myself. You do not have to do what you have to do alone. Gargoyle can often be brutal but I think in this case his advice is sound - make preperations. For months after we separated I was was walking into shops where she had presented bad cheques and paying what she owed - she had also forged my signature on some old temp cheques I had inadvertantly left behind. Knowing she was desperate enough to do this somehow made it worse. Be honest with family and friends - some may not believe you but most will be supportive and understanding. The hardest was telling her mother why she was in hospital but once they get over the shock -they start to piece together their own evidence - in her mothers case - she received 4 Christmas cards - my wife did not remember sending each 'wave' of cards out. I am a guest - but for no good reason really so am happy to join up and for you to PM if I can help you in any way I can. Elfcall |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Paul Burke Date: 25 Oct 09 - 04:45 AM A friend had this exact problem fifteen years ago. In the end, she asked him to leave, expaining the problem it was causing with the children. He left, and set up in a bedsit. He lost his business (pressure there had been part of the cause), his self- respect, only the core of the wonderful man we had known remained, and we were expecting any day the news that he'd either crashed his car or gassed himself with the exhaust. Then, one day, he was arrested for drunk driving (a miracle it hadn't happened before), and banned from driving for several years. That humiliation released some locked-in strength. Without telling anyone, he arranged to go to AA meetings, went into a hostel, dried out and STAYED dried out. Not entirely a happy ending- they didn't get back together, but she's still friendly with him and they have both rebuilt their lives. But it was her strong action that precipitated the whole chain of events. Be tough. He needs it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: VirginiaTam Date: 25 Oct 09 - 06:02 AM Dear Logged Out I would prefer to PM this to you, but as I cannot, here goes. Been there and done that. 20+ years of it before I could hack it no longer. I know what it is like to disentangle myself from the circle of acquaintances and the joint assets/debts. I paid big time to get out. Taking half of the debt and leaving all of the assets. It was the only way he would agree to divorce. He lost job after job. We moved house over and over again, halfway across the country and back, eating into inheritance, because he had to chase jobs, because he kept losing jobs. I had 3 children to think about, no education and no job experience, so I was stuck for 2 decades. Through it all I still cared deeply for him, wanted him well and engaging properly with his family. But it didn't happen. The stress on me and our kids maybe tells in the health problems we all have/had (one child passed away). She was the only one that remained at home with the drinker when the rest of us left. I don't doubt that living with her father and having to chauffeur him everywhere (insurance sales manager without a driving license) put a heap of stress on her that contributed to her illness. I know without a doubt, had I stayed, I would not be alive now. It was so bad that the 2 remaining children avoid their father. One refuses to speak to him at all. Let me ask you this. Would you want your kids to spend away their lives and happiness in a similar relationship? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Wolfhound person Date: 25 Oct 09 - 06:50 AM If you're in the UK, talking to "Relate" advisers is another way to go. They'll let you talk through your options and help you make whatever decisions are best for you. I presume there are equivalent relationship counselling organisations elsewhere. Paws |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: John MacKenzie Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:00 AM By remaining with him, you are condoning his drinking. Leaving will make you happier in the long run, and MAY, make him realise what he's done to both of you. Either way, there would appear to be no future for either of you, if you remain in you present situation. Alcoholics are difficult to deal with, but as someone said, the first step is for them to recognise they have a problem, and the second is for them to decide to do something about it. I wish you courage and strength to make the right decision, whatever one you make, I hope things improve in your life. JM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: eddie1 Date: 25 Oct 09 - 09:08 AM Hi LO I thought long and hard before writing this – will it help? Are you getting too much advice too soon all at once? I don't know but for what it's worth here goes – feel free to ignore this or PM me. I have spent quite a few years working in residential drug & alcohol rehab and during this time worked with partners/families affected by the drug usage so have some experience/ understanding of what you're going through. Right now, you are not just condoning the lifestyle he has chosen, you are actively supporting it by providing, at the very least, a home for him to come back to thus making it easier for him to continue and to fool himself that things are not that bad. This is not criticising you in any way. You are understandably having difficulty in seeing a way out – but there are choices. Can I suggest that you find a time and place where you are likely to be undisturbed for a couple of hours. Sit down and write him a letter. Tell him how and why you love him, tell him what you hate about him and his behaviour, tell him what this has done to you, to your marriage and to your life together. Tell him in great detail, what precisely you intend to do about it. Tell him of your plans, or if you don't have any yet, of your ideas about the home, the family, the friends, the joint finances. Tell him again of your love but also of your need to look after yourself first (and please believe me, if you don't look after yourself first, you will be left with no strength to continue or to do anything about the situation!) When you have finished, hide it deep within your computer, so deep that he won't ever find it accidentally or otherwise. Those with more technical knowledge than I, can tell you how best to do that. Then begin to take action! When you need to, go back and read it again, to remind yourself of what you are doing and why. Amend it in the light of developments and experiences. Very important - you don't have to go through this on your own. There is help out there. I don't know where you are but if you were in the UK I would suggest Women's Aid for the chance to talk about wha you are going through and Citizen's Advice Bureau for practical help with finances etc. I'm sure there are similar organisations in other countries. I hold a Master's Degree in Long Distance Hugging and there is a big and very reassuring one heading for you right now! Eddie |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Bobert Date: 25 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM As a former alcohilism counselor add one more vote for Al-Anon... Also, there is an old study by a Dr. Jelnick that maps out the various bases that alcoholics will touch on their way down and one of them is losing their families... I am very sorry that you and your spouse are going thru this and I hope that spouse will not find the bottom of Dr. Jelnick's chart which can be death... Hang in there and please, please do Al-Anon... Bobert |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Janie Date: 25 Oct 09 - 01:35 PM It is a hard decision to leave some one you have shared a life with for so long. Al-Anon can be a great support in providing the support you need as you sort through what you are going to do. Janie |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,A former drunk Date: 25 Oct 09 - 03:14 PM Yes - by all means Al-Anon. Be aware that the way the majority of al-anon groups work, that no one there will tell you what to do. What they WILL do if you are willing to listen is share their experience, strength and hope. You may find that to be of value and use those experiences in your own life if you choose to do so. Also - NOTHING you can tell the other al-anons will come as a suprise to them. You will not shock or horrify them either. They know exactly what you've been through - they have been down that same road before. Good luck. It's a program of attaction not promotion. No one will force you to come back if you don't want to. You will find wisdom there that you will find invaluable. Trust me on that. Best of luck to you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 25 Oct 09 - 08:06 PM A long time alcoholic told me once, while sober, that his drinking would never stop until everybody left him alone to deal with the problem. He said that his underlying problem was that he could not deal with their problems and he drank to forget their problems. He lost everything and everybody. Job, wife, kids... all of it. And he is now one of the most successful and happiest people I know. And he helps a lot of alkies and addicts get better... it is the reward of this that makes him most happy and keeps him from the drink. I have no words of wisdom, but, maybe "getting out" is actually part of the solution, for the alcohlic? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: mg Date: 25 Oct 09 - 08:18 PM Can you start looking for a little apartment rght now or room in a friend's house? Then start disentangling finances..probably through a divorce to end financial entertwining. This does not mean you sever all ties, but you must extricate yourself physically and financially...perhaps the house can be sold and his share put into an annuity instead of a lump sum. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST Date: 26 Oct 09 - 02:40 AM A book that has helped some, Co-Dependant No More |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GREEN WELLIES Date: 26 Oct 09 - 04:52 AM As many have said I dont have any answers either, but I will just tell you that about eight years ago a friend of mine took to the bottle when her husband died very suddently, in front of her. She'd always enjoyed a drink, but after this shock she got worse and after about 12 months I just couldnt cope with her drinking anymore. She moved, not far away, but I didnt keep in touch. Last week I heard that she'd died aged 59 of liver disease. I have never felt so guilty, so absolutely crap, that I walked away and did nothing to try and help my friend. Dont give up on him - I did and I've never regretted anything so much. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,Logged out Date: 26 Oct 09 - 05:46 AM Once again, thank you. I am humbled by the care and consideration of all your advice and suggestions. Al-Anon seems the way to go in the first instance, together with some medium-term planning. It won't be instant, but your comments have been of great help. Thanks again. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 26 Oct 09 - 05:54 AM Can you stay with a close friend or family member for say an initial one month trial separation, to give both of you the time and space to meditate upon the next step? I think, in such instances it's deemed preferable that contact is kept at a minimum. A friend of mine did this prior to divorcing her husband - she found it most helpful. She also with-held a contact address or number from her husband, to ensure she had the mental space she needed to gain perspective on the situation. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,A former drunk Date: 26 Oct 09 - 10:32 AM "Dont give up on him" In a lot of cases the very best thing that can happen to the drunk is when the people he or she loves the most leave them and give up on them. It allows the drunk to "hit bottom" as it's called in the program. For many drinkers the only way they turn their life around is when they have no where else to go. Esp if their loved ones have been rescuing them. So don't be afraid to leave. It may be just what your alcoholic needs to wake up and smell the coffee. In AA it's called having a moment of clarity. For me it was when I looked at my father in his casket and knew he died because of his drinking. And that I was drinking exactly the same way. As Nick Lowe sang "You have to be cruel to be kind". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: wysiwyg Date: 26 Oct 09 - 11:17 AM LO, please keep in mind that the best use for Alanon is to use it for YOUR recovery-- not to get support to help HIS recovery. Some groups manage this focus better than others-- it's fine to visit as many different groups as you can before settling into one. The folks who attend week to week also may vary-- suggest you don't glom onto any one person too fast if you want to avoid starting another co-dependent relationship. :~) Some other things you may find important: Let the group be the group. Take responsibility for moving at your own speed. Be kind to yourself. All the best, ~S~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Jim Dixon Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:01 PM You might find this inspirational. Craig Ferguson Speaks from the Heart about his alcoholism. It takes him nearly 3 1/2 minutes to get to the subject of alcoholism, but it's well worth paying attention to the whole thing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:23 PM I think that is one of the best things I have ever seen on TV, Jim. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:30 PM A buddy of mine tried to join AA on line. He is still waiting for his "account" to be "activated" by the administrator. I am anxious to see how he makes out with it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Leadfingers Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:34 PM I have worked (Musically) with Alcoholics , and know that maintaing any kind of relationship is NOT easy - But the Alcoholic has to decide to change - No One else can decide for them ! The Nastiest man I ever met in my life will always be owed somethng by me , as he proved that I do NOT need an Alcohol Crutch to work competently in a very difficult situation ! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GREEN WELLIES Date: 27 Oct 09 - 04:41 AM Guest 'A Former Drunk'...... I understand what you say, afterall you are the 'expert' here and I respect you for that. All I can say is that she was my friend for 20 years and when she needed help I wasnt there and now she's dead. Perhaps it wouldnt have made any difference but it doesnt stop me feeling the way I do. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: alanabit Date: 27 Oct 09 - 09:18 AM With all respect GW, one of the devices an alcoholic uses is to allow other people to accept responsibility for the alcoholic's actions. This inevitably damages the alcoholic as well, because it defers the time when the drinker has to make decisions. It is a horrible sight to watch loved ones destroy themselves with alcohol. It is not the onlooker's responsibility though. Only the alcoholic can change the situation. Only at that point can a friend be of any assistance - no matter how much the friend wants to help. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: GUEST,Guest but a mudcatter Date: 27 Oct 09 - 01:17 PM I have been through the same sort of thing many moons ago. I was too ill to carry on supporting him and decided 'What price peace of mind'. Made the big mistake of taking the responsibility of most of our business debts to ease his situation and was advised by his medical team to move out to assist his recovery. What a bad move - he had another woman within three months and the delay in selling our house left me penniless. Went to Al-anon but found the Co-dependency Group helped me better. HOWEVER 'What price peace of mind' came into its own and I am now happily living on my own, surrounded by good friends and folkies. Be careful, don't fall for the same type again - it has been known| |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 27 Oct 09 - 03:30 PM Indeed, legal stuff should trigger legal council. Now, if it's abusive, ya gotta get out, but ensure you don't "leave the marital home". BTW.... my buddy is still waiting for approval from AA to join their website... seems odd to me. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Alice Date: 27 Oct 09 - 04:44 PM I'm not sure how AA on the internet would really work. It's important to actually get together with people who are walking or have walked in your shoes face to face and that seems to be how AA or Al-Anon is helpful to people. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 28 Oct 09 - 04:19 PM But, if you can't drive? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Amergin Date: 28 Oct 09 - 04:22 PM There usually is one in any area/region....he could always have some one drive him... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 28 Oct 09 - 04:28 PM Maybe he could get the admin guy who is supposed to be approving his membership to drive him? I mean... if it helps one person, why not? And, the last thing an alkie needs when starting to "admit" is being ignored. I know this guy and he needs help. I have talked to him a LOT. Just getting him to check out the online stuff is some progress. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Lox Date: 28 Oct 09 - 04:41 PM Tough situation LO. The hardest part is facing and accepting the reality that Alcoholism is an illness that can only be cured by the alcoholic, and only once they have admitted to themselves that they have a problem. You can have no bearing on the situation whether by shouting, crying, caring, trusting or loving. He may love you, but he is unable to make that a priority because he is an addict. You exist outside of his alcohol defined world. You have learned, with great patience and love and care that no matter how you try, your efforts all wind up achieving the same result ... ... you getting hurt, let down, ignored, taken for granted, and to an undisclosed extent, even abused. You have only one way to end that cycle ... ... extricate yourself from it! Crow sister said to stay with a family member or friend that will trust you and support you. I would second that and add that this person should ideally be non judgemental about your husband. They need to understand that this is not about who's right or wrong, or who's bad or good, but that you have been suffering from your husbands alcoholism and that you are putting an end to your suffering, without malice or any ill will. This process isn't about him. This process is about you reclaiming your life for yourself and freeing yourself from the tyranny of his illness. He may also chooose to be free of his illness one day but that is something that you cannot control. That is the hardest thing to face but the most important thing. Peace xx |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: kendall Date: 28 Oct 09 - 05:18 PM My Father lost his good job during the great depression and he hit the bottle, became useless as a Father. Could not support his family, could not hold a job, and finally my Mother left him with 5 kids to raise all by herself. I still don't know how she did it, but I do know she was tougher than a bag of hammers. While he was on one of his frequent drunks she sold the house and moved to another. She worked in a sardine factory, and as a domestic. We were dirt poor but we no longer had to tolerate his addiction and neglect. He was not abusive, he was addicted to alcohol; he never knew where his next drink was coming from, and that was his only concern. You can get by on your own if you have the courage. Alanon is a great support group, but you will find the solution inside yourself, not "out there" somewhere. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Stringsinger Date: 28 Oct 09 - 07:19 PM If you have a support group and can have an "intervention", maybe he can be persuaded to commit himself to a program that will help him kick his habit. If not, then the advice given to you to protect yourself by leaving is sound. Drug addiction (yes alcoholism is a drug addiction) hurts the people around the addict. Alcoholism is unfortunately thought of something humorous in some circles. That's a tragic and stupid idea. Alcoholics are impossible to live with and to interact with. My step father was an alcoholic personality and eventually caused enough problems so that my mother had to leave for her protection and mine. The prognosis for an alcoholic is not good. It affects the brain. Alcoholics are abusive even though they may not always resort to violence. They ruin the lives of those around them. It should not be defended under any circumstances by religious people or cultural groups. You need to stay away from any participation in an alcoholic's life. That has to be faced. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: Bobert Date: 28 Oct 09 - 07:46 PM In case you don't follow thru with Al-Anon, keep in mind the various roles that alcoholics put their spouses, family and friends in... Don't allow yourself to fall into becoming his enabler or presceutor... Those are the two biggies to try to avoid... He allready knows he has a problem... For you to belittle him will produce nothing except another reason (in his mind) to continue his alcoholism... You can, however, confront him with the various things he has done while under the influence without being a prosecutor... Just stick with the facts... Not the judgements... Enabler is just as damaging... Most practicing alcoholics have enablers in their life... The wife that makes the call to the boss or buys him his booze... You may allready know about these roles and maybe doing the right things not to play into his hand... I donno... Just thought it was worth bringing up, anyway... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 29 Oct 09 - 01:31 PM OOPSIE!!! Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu - PM Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:30 PM A buddy of mine tried to join AA on line. He is still waiting for his "account" to be "activated" by the administrator. I am anxious to see how he makes out with it. ********************************************************** What I should have said was, "AA now has a website that people can become registered in." I did not mean to imply that anyone has to or even can join AA. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Alcoholic advice From: gnu Date: 29 Oct 09 - 01:34 PM Just looked up the website... here. |
