The end of religious freedom in the US

Subject: RE: The end of religious freedom in the US
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 09:31 PM

Well, Souter... the reality is we made a deal for as much land as a certain number of folks could walk in a day, Penn got I think 12, athletes to walk around what became Pennsulvania in a day. However, after that, Quakers kept their treaties with scruplous care.
Spot, wars happen after a lot of prewar history, Hitler, for example, fed on the desire to punish Germany for WWI. Quakers and a number of communities of concience argued for fair treatment of parties after and between the wars.
The most recent agression against the US, though absoulty inhumanly crule and without heart, did not happen in a vacume as well, the US armed and trained the Afgan terrorists and have been in the buisness of droping bombs on places in that region ever since the last time we declared war, fifty years ago. We have been living by the sword for the past fifty years and without a single declaration of war. We reep what we sow, I choose to sow peace, do what your heart leads you to do, but don't demand I pull your broken body off the field as an obligation of your state, I likely will do it as a matter of my faith, but I object to you telling our Quaker children we owe you their lives for the wars you start and we stand aside from, what ever flag you fly.
Larry

Subject: RE: The end of religious freedom in the US
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 10:13 AM

Boys are fine, Larry, and I still think most conflicts anywhere on the planet are based on religious intolerance of other religions, but again, I've never had a problem with Quakers, although I have to admit that the Quakers I knew around Philly where my dad's family (Quaker) is from never talked about any gods, they talked about the Inner Light, whereas down here in Ole Virginny all they talk about is God and I can't stand the meetings. WHat ever happened to the Inner Light?

Subject: RE: The end of religious freedom in the US
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 10:35 AM

Mrzzy! You have fallen in with Evangelical Quakes! My first gut responce is to make a joke about their being so like other Evangelical faiths, but they have no sence of humor and they may passive resist me to death! No, really, our meeting in New York, was origionaly a Hicksite (Liberal inner-light) meeting which in 1960 merged with an Orthodox (Christocentric - inner light + Christ only) meeting. Orthodox (Wilberite and Gurneyite) is a rather misnomer, baised on the contention that they alone are origional Quakerism, when in fact, I would say the combination of the two comes close, eliments of both traditions held together by belief in individual inspiration ... Well, then a wee bit of history, in the 1820's we split into two separate religions, which re-merged in 1955... Now, these traditions are "unprogramed" ie no ministers or priests worshiping in silence. Today there are some "programed" meetings, most comon in Africa, but also found in Ohio and a number of other places in the US, often Evangelical and hard to distinguish in my eyes from Baptists... We also have a programed meeting which meets in our meeting house in New York. On a happy note, we don't shoot each other, but rather we share the meeting house, well hell we even share the meeting house with Menonites (nice folks!) to get back to the origional post, we don't have to fight over sharing the meeting house or the planet... lots of room for all!
I, as you may guess, am a Hicksite - but some of my best friends are Wilberites and Gurnytes.
:-)
Larry

Subject: RE: The end of religious freedom in the US
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 12:37 PM

One more thing... I was only joking about my feelings towards other traditions in our meeting house, and in fact, most of our committees are made up of orthodox and hicksite members. Also, I believe that Programmed worship is becoming the most common form of Quakerism, though it is very new to the Quaker tradition. Similer to the fast spread of other Evangelical faiths, I have heard that 80% of American Friends are members of Programmed meetings. I do wonder at this, as it seems to fly in the face of the most elimental concept in Quakerism, waiting in silence on the lord rather than listening to another human, but well... what can I say. Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: The end of religious freedom in the US
From: Mrrzy
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 12:51 PM

At least they have silence, and I've heard the phrase "that Friend speaks my mind" - so you can at least tell them from the Baptists, hee hee!

Subject: RE: The end of religious freedom in the US
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Feb 02 - 02:14 PM

Ahhh slient types... most likely Gurnyites and Wiberites... But, well, for some of that ol'time Quakerism, drop in at 15th Street meeting when you are in New York next. Mid week meeting is nice also, about 4 of us, completely silent meeting... Quietists... another whole rant... Cheers Larry