Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Greg F. Date: 25 Oct 13 - 04:19 PM Those are jeans, Don, in GeistInsanity's case. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 25 Oct 13 - 04:56 PM You're probably right, Greg. I'm not sure fungus has genes. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: akenaton Date: 25 Oct 13 - 05:45 PM I'm afraid you are quite wrong about the "Daily Mail", the "liberal" media like to brand it as a "comic cuts" publication, but it is remarkably accurate in most of its articles. It comes from a right of centre perspective, but not extreme. It is popular and more truthful than "The Times", carries more political information than most of the "redtops" and does not pretend to be anything other than the voice of the centre right. All the big newspapers in the UK are centre or centre right, and all support the present system. There are others like the Guardian, Independent etc, who pretend to speak for the left.....until the chips are down......then they revert to type. We get the press we deserve |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 25 Oct 13 - 06:09 PM Ake, there's more to it than merely identifying the source of a politically slanted article. To dismiss the article solely on the basis of the biases of the source is to fall into the fallacy of argumentum ad homonym. Even the most biased of sources can speak the truth now and then. One goes on to check the facts upon which the slant of the article is based. Which, having worked as a broadcast news director and news editor, I am accustomed to doing. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: akenaton Date: 25 Oct 13 - 06:32 PM Yes Don, but to describe The Mail as any more of a "scurrilous rag" than any of the other UK papers, or to equate it with the "National Enquirer", is disingenuous. It is an honestly right of centre paper. We do not have an honestly left of centre newspaper in the UK. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 25 Oct 13 - 06:56 PM Ake, I went further and read several other articles in The Mail, and the material is definitely comparable in quality to what is published in the "National Enquirer." Sensationalism and political bias of the worst sort. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Songwronger Date: 25 Oct 13 - 07:22 PM Healthcare.gov exposed as data-gathering honey pot to shamelessly harvest private consumer data and turn it over to the NSA The pieces of the puzzle on Obamacare are finally coming together. Yesterday it was revealed during congressional testimony that the Healthcare.gov website contains a hidden disclaimer which reads, "You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transmitting or stored on this information system." This is an open admission that the site intends to share your data with other government entities. It also means the entire website violates federal law because it does not comply with HIPAA regulations for medical privacy. Click here to watch the astonishing video testimony. But this isn't the only evidence now emerging. It also turns out that an NSA-funded entity actually helped build Healthcare.gov! Kit Daniels has just published a groundbreaking story that links the CIA venture capital firm "In-Q-Tel" to the Healthcare.gov data collection technology provider known as Socrata. "Socrata will work with the CIA and other intelligence agencies to transform raw data into a format easily utilized and accessible to the intelligence community," writes Daniels. "Healthcare.gov captures the personal data provided during the Obamacare enrollment process for this spy grid database." ...Healthcare.gov is specifically designed to gather your most intimate details such as social security number, annual salary, place of employment, immigration status, military background, criminal history, physical place of residence, bank account numbers and much more. This information is simply shuttled directly to the NSA where it is then used to cross-tabulate all your phone calls, texts, social media posts, website surfing habits, credit card purchase habits and much more. http://www.naturalnews.com/042664_Healthcaregov_NSA_data_mining_fake_front-end.html How Badly Will Obamacare Screw You? First, if you're "27", the average premium is $266.20/month or $3,194.40 per year. How many 27 year olds have an extra $3,200 to spend on this? Remember, this is the price that virtually every uninsured 27 year old must be willing -- and able -- to cough up in order to prevent the model this system is predicated on from collapsing. If those 27 year olds don't show up, and they won't, then the system collapses instantly. If they do show up because the government threatens them with fines the economy collapses as $3,200 a year exceeds the average 27 year old's disposable personal income after mandatory expenses (e.g. food, shelter, etc.)... ...Now let's look at the government's own claims. First, the CPI index claims that health insurance is 0.656% of the family budget. What percentage of couples make $1.185 million a year? Why do I ask? Because that's the alleged median income for a couple if you believe the government's CPI numbers.... ...Oh, yeah, about that -- most of these plans absolutely exclude payment of anything to out-of-network physicians and facilities. "You can keep your doctor" eh? Uh, no. This "program" is nothing more than the imposition of force to support a medical "system" that has systematically and intentionally destroyed the health of millions with government assistance and prodding. http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=225369 This second article makes a good point about the economy. In order for Obamacare to work, all 27 year olds must enroll (but the penalty, sorry, the "tax" will be only $95 the first year if they don't. So they won't enroll). The system will fail. But even if they DID all sign up, that $3000 or so going to insurance rather than other sectors of the economy will starve those other sectors of the economy. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 25 Oct 13 - 08:34 PM ". . . designed to gather your most intimate details such as social security number, annual salary, place of employment, immigration status, military background, criminal history, physical place of residence, bank account numbers and much more." Songwronger's sources for these Revelations? B.S., M.S., PhD, as indicated above. Here's a news flash, Songwronger: if you've ever filed an income tax return, the Dreaded Government already has most of this information. Military background and criminal history are also a matter of public record. If you feel like running around in circles, screaming in terror, and pulling your hair out—well, I suppose that's good exercise. But try not to wake the neighbors. They could get a bit cranky with your gyrations. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Elmore Date: 25 Oct 13 - 08:47 PM I'd like to sign up, but I believe Th President's Affordable Care Act is illegal in Georgia. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Elmore Date: 25 Oct 13 - 08:50 PM Not Th President, The President. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Oct 13 - 12:45 AM Ake: "Yes Don, but to describe The Mail as any more of a "scurrilous rag" than any of the other UK papers, or to equate it with the "National Enquirer", is disingenuous." Just give him another source, besides the 'Daily Mail'. There has to be more.....whenever he can't refute something, he attacks the source...give him enough sources, and then he'll just call you some names out of the liberal handbook. He's meaningless, and can't back up anything he says with ACCURATE facts. (Actually, he'd have to look that up, to see what it means). He's not half as bright as he pretends to be. BTW, Akenaton, HELLO!! GfS |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 26 Oct 13 - 06:04 AM ""Just give him another source, besides the 'Daily Mail'. There has to be more.....whenever he can't refute something, he attacks the source."" As usual Goofus, you've got the thing arse about face. Don Firth did not attack the source! Entirely reasonable, he asked for comment about that source from somebody who actually knows something about it. You should try it sometime, instead of quoting every tinfoil hatted conspiracy nut in the world. I answered his request, and the comment was mine, based on experience of the debased and unregulated foulness of most of the UK Press. Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: akenaton Date: 26 Oct 13 - 10:26 AM Don the "Mail" would never print "Oprah has alien baby" whether it was true or untrue! Of course it has a centre right bias, but not an extreme right bias. As someone on the centre left, I am sure you prefer to read left biased articles on the net or in the papers?.....but most here would think you have a perfect right to do so and subscribe to such publications. You should understand tolerance in political matters, it is the only way real change can be achieved.....the differences between centre right and centre left are miniscule in real terms, most of the steam is stoked up by the Parties in an attempt to divert attention from the real villians ....the corporate Capitalists ....global Capitalism. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 26 Oct 13 - 01:38 PM Akenaton, have you ever actually studied political science, or are you just putting it all together in line with your particular biases? There are whole different philosophical and ethical bases that keep Liberal and Conservative mutually exclusive political positions. Not miniscule at all! Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 26 Oct 13 - 01:55 PM Akenaton: "....the differences between centre right and centre left are miniscule in real terms, most of the steam is stoked up by the Parties in an attempt to divert attention from the real villians ....the corporate Capitalists ....global Capitalism." I don't mind capitalism, in the way, that if one provides a service or goods, that they should be compensated for it...what gives me the ass, is when GREED and CORRUPTION, become infused and so inbred with corporate globalism, that they buy out the political parties, and systems for more corruption, as a way for more power and control, and the idiot-logues actually believe that they aren't promoting, 'The New World Order' spoken about by Hitler, reintroduced by Bush, and carried further by Obama(along with the rest of the corrupt jerks), who dare to call themselves 'representatives'! ..and THEN, we get the idiot activists who are so enamored by the thought of their own importance, that they purposely, carry on trying to deceive people for their own self aggrandizement! Right, Don?..and Don?? (I left out Bobert, because he's just a casualty of collateral damage)!! GfS |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 26 Oct 13 - 04:56 PM The advantage of Capitalism is that it leads to competition for the consumers' dollar. And this leads to better products and services. But by its very nature, Capitalism is fired by greed or something very much like it. This can get out of hand with such things as monopolies and cartels, so it has to be firmly regulated. In the 1930s, Franklin D. Roosevelt and his progressive/ Democratic administration ended the Great Depression (precipitated by Capitalist greed manipulating Wall Street and the banking system) and ushered in a solid period of general prosperity following World War II. And no, it was NOT World War II that got the U. S. out of the Depression, it was a combination of FDR's measures, such as the WPA and CCC, which put the 25% unemployed back to work on much needed infrastructure such as roads, highways, bridges, and National Parks, which we are still using and enjoying today. This jump-started the end of the Depression partly by putting money back in the hands of people who had to spend it right away on things like food and rent, returning the money immediately into circulation, and this, in essence, jump-started the economy. The regulatory agencies that FDR put into place, such as the Securities and Exchange Commission put the brakes on wild speculation on Wall Street and irresponsibility in the banking system. This is an oversimplification of the extent and effect of FDR's policies, but it give the essence of it. The Fifties was a period of general prosperity, despite a Republican administration, but Dwight D. Eisenhower was a moderate Republican and an intelligent man. He, after all, is the one who warned the country about the dangers of the Military-Industrial complex. Kennedy and Johnson from the early to the late 1960s. Then Nixon and Ford in the 1970s, then one term of Jimmie Carter, followed by— Ronald Reagan. Reagan set about disassembling the regulatory agencies the FDR put in place by, for example, replacing members of the Securities and Exchange Commission with banking executives and Wall Street brokers. A prime example of putting the fox in charge of the chicken coop! This, plus replacing a couple of Supreme Court justices with Conservatives, along with big tax breaks for corporations ("supply-side economics"). George H. W. Bush just continued Reagan's policies. He was followed by Bill Clinton who manage to get himself impeached (fooling around with a White House aide) without really accomplishing much for the country. Then—George W. Bush, the walking disaster! 'Nuff said!! Barack Obama is no FDR, but his heart is in the right place and he's doing his damnedest to put things right again, but he is being stonewalled by an ultra-conservative Republican Congress who don't give a damn about the good of the country as a whole, they just want to see Obama fail. Two major reasons for this: he is a Progressive Democrat, which to the Right Wing is the equivalent of the Anti-Christ, and as far as the southern states (and parts of the rest of the country) he is the wrong color to be in the White House. Can't have that, now can we!?? Interesting to note that many of the details of Obama's health care plan were first proposed by Republican Mitt Romney in Massachusetts and it was just peachy-keen then—but when Obama proposes essentially the same plan, the Republicans act like the Apocalypse is coming!! Contrary to the lazy thinkers who avoid the effort of thinking by asserting that "they're both the same," there is a world of difference between the philosophical and ethical positions of Liberals and Conservatives. And this goes back to long before King John was forced, kicking and screaming, to sign the Magna Carta at Runnymede in 1215. This was one of the first steps toward limiting the powers of the aristocracy and guaranteeing the common people some rights—a first step toward Constitutional government. It becomes obvious that a distressing and depressing number of people apparently don't know the long-term histories of the issues the speak so authoritatively about. A goodly percentage of the voters in this (and apparently some other countries) are badly in need of a good Dope Slap!! Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Oct 13 - 12:59 PM Thank you for your semi-literate description of your deception! Next you'll be saying Hillary is your next 'progressive' choice, because she is a woman, and 'nothing like Bush', or Rockefeller!...as if Obama being half white/black has ANYTHING to do with ANY of it!! "It", meaning, lying and an administration of incompetence! Protect our borders....and stop selling guns across them to the drug cartels. Gitmo??...Oh, I know, that got swept under the wispy willows of 'because'...and hope to be forgotten. NDAA??????? WTF??? Benghazi??...Oh, just send Hillary out there to lie her fat ass off, and then blurt out, "What does it matter how they were killed??"..That way he can stop lying to the U.N.!!..oh and lying to the American public about it..(besides, they don't matter anyway)... And if Solyndra wasn't an exercise in crony corruption, what till they get a load of the Obamacare's website....and the cost 640 million of that 'no bid' contract....and now they want another 5o million to fix their own fuck up..with no guarantees that, that should do it! Solyndra was just a 'warm up pitch'....to help implement a pseudo healthcare program that was so fucking good, that it took promises of exemption from it, in exchange for the votes to pass it without reading it!!!!!!!!!!! ..and the list goes on and on..... But one thing you got right, Obama ain't no FDR....or Eisenhower, or Kennedy......They're all dead. You're only brain dead..... ..but it's a start! GfS |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Oct 13 - 03:23 PM So speaks the voice of ignorance and stupidity. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 27 Oct 13 - 03:41 PM Give me a list of accomplishments from this administration, that went well! Try to limit your answer to things that are truthful...for a CHANGE! I'll be back in about a week. GfS |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Oct 13 - 05:17 PM Okay, Smartass, you asked for it, so here it is. And each item is accompanied by a URL so you can check it for yourself. Returned the Executive Branch To Fiscal Responsibility.Okay, wise guy, any other silly questions? Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Oct 13 - 09:23 PM Hey, Goofball-- See Next Post Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Oct 13 - 09:27 PM See Previous Post Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Ebbie Date: 27 Oct 13 - 10:21 PM "Benghazi??...Oh, just send Hillary out there to lie her fat ass off, and then blurt out, "What does it matter how they were killed??" Frankly, GfS, I expected better than this from you. If you DON'T know that is not what Secretary Clinton said, you are not paying attention- and should not even think of passing on something so false. If you DO know that is not what Secretary Clinton said, and passed it on anyway, you lie. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 28 Oct 13 - 07:41 AM ""THEN, we get the idiot activists who are so enamored by the thought of their own importance, that they purposely, carry on trying to deceive people for their own self aggrandizement! Right, Don?..and Don??"" Wrong, as usual. Not being anything like you (a misanthropic pessimist with delusions of knowledge), I pay more attention to reality, than to the rantings of the they're all as bad as one another brigade. I tend to agree with your hatred of corporatism, as opposed to honest capitalism, but that is the point after which we diverge. If Obama had been in a position to gain a majority in both houses, I believe that his promised change would have happened. How else would you explain the frantic and counter productive efforts of the Tea Party Republicans to prevent him from doing anything. We have never, in my lifetime, seen such a vicious and malicious series of attacks on an incumbent president. Don T. P.S. You owe Bobert an apology, IMO! Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Songwronger Date: 29 Oct 13 - 09:35 PM Today, White House spokesman Jay Carney was asked about the president's promise that consumers would be able to keep their health care. "What the president said and what everybody said all along is that there are going to be changes brought about by the Affordable Care Act to create minimum standards of coverage, minimum services that every insurance plan has to provide," Carney said. "So it's true that there are existing healthcare plans on the individual market that don't meet those minimum standards and therefore do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act." http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite That's from NBC, Obama's lapdog news network. The Obama administration knew all along that people wouldn't be able to keep their health plans. NBC goes on to downplay the situation. They say 50-75% of 15 million will be affected, but 19 million Americans carry personal insurance, and 85% won't be able to continue with their plans. They will be forced to either skip insurance altogether or pay the increased rates on the policies offered by the Obamacare exchanges. If they skip the insurance, then the Gestapo (I mean the I.R.S.) will come collecting. The middle class in America has shrunk to about 10%. Obamacare is designed to devastate that group of people. The middle class will now have to pay higher premiums for less coverage, or become criminals. And if you're not onboard with that, then you're a Tea Party terrorist. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Songwronger Date: 30 Oct 13 - 08:30 PM A pretty amazing piece of video below: http://www.1800politics.com/one-lie-another-obama-promising-can-keep-existing-healthcare-plan/ According to what Jay Carney revealed yesterday, the Obama white house has known for years that people would lose their existing healthcare plans under Obamacare. Yet here's Obama saying "If you like it, you can keep it" over the past 3-4 years. No telling how many hundreds of times he told the lie, but someone patched these 2 dozen instances into this clip. I can't tell if Obama's a pathological liar or if he's just agenda-driven. Whatever the case, millions of people will lose their insurance (and no telling how many will die as a result), so keep that in mind as you watch this. And these are just the couple of dozen lies the filmmaker found on this one topic. Obama lies about everything, 24/7. Amazing. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 30 Oct 13 - 10:02 PM Songwronger is putting his own frosting on the cake here. First of all, NBC is NOT "Obama'a lapdog news agency." Where he pulls that idea out of--well, you don't want to know. Let's get serious here: White House spokesman Jay Carney said today (October 30th) that it is true that many people will be able to keep the health care plan they currently have. However, "There are existing health care plans on the individual market that do not meet those minimum standards required and therefore do not qualify for the Affordable Care Act." In short, many people have health insurance that provides inadequate coverage in case of any serious health problem. These people will have to upgrade. Analogy: in most states (all, perhaps) you are required by law to have accident insurance on your automobile. If, say, you have collision insurance, but not liability, the state will require that you upgrade your insurance to include liability. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Songwronger Date: 30 Oct 13 - 11:17 PM Obama said categorically that if you like it, you can keep it. Said it in a dozen different ways in that video compilation. He lied. He knew that existing plans would not meet the specs of Obamacare. He lied. Look at that fucker lie smooth as goose shit over and over and over. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST Date: 31 Oct 13 - 04:51 AM Mr. Forth .... it is ALWAYS important to attribute your sources .... anything less is .... www.theprogressivesinfluence.com/2013/05/barack-h-obama-44th-president-commander.html Sincerely, Gargoyle |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 31 Oct 13 - 12:58 PM Gargoyle, that was not my source. I got the list from the Daily Kos. Actually, that same list is all over the internet. Just Google "Obama's accomplishments" and you're get dozens of web sites with that same list. You will note, incidentally, that each item on the list is accompanied by a URL, so if you have any doubts about the item, you can look it up for yourself. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 31 Oct 13 - 01:39 PM So, gargoyle, I might add, each item is accompanied by an attribution. I wouldn't have thought more would be deemed necessary. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Rapparee Date: 31 Oct 13 - 10:25 PM Getting back to the original premise of this thread: What the hell business is it of yours? |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,. Date: 01 Nov 13 - 12:08 AM TWO HUNDRED AND FORTY EIGHTFrom a truly impartial source . timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/Only-248-signed-up-for-Obamacare-in-first-two-days/articleshow/25036168.cms Sincerely, Gargoyle Dude... REST EZ ...I am going to back down and back out of this thread... I get no pleasure pulling legs off a stoned cockroach. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: sciencegeek Date: 01 Nov 13 - 08:20 AM from today's AP... a report on two people who have signed up for Affordable Insurance. And the second one now has a better plan for the same money. Which is the main reason behind the law... protect Americans from getting screwed by corporate greed... minimum standards at reasonable rates that actually meet our needs. "New faces of health overhaul: Still all smiles In a photo taken Monday Oct. 28, 2013, in Portsmouth, N.H., Deborah Lielasus poses behind her computer with the national health insurance enrollment website. Not long after she enrolled, the Department of Health and Human Services asked her to appear both in a video describing her experience and in photographs that could replace the stock photo on the insurance enrollment site. (AP Photo - Jim Cole) By HOLLY RAMER From Associated Press November 01, 2013 5:30 AM EST PORTSMOUTH, N.H. (AP) — It didn't take long for the friendly-looking young woman whose face was splashed across HealthCare.gov to spiral from smiling stock photo to laughingstock. As it scrambles to correct problems with the website, the Obama administration is now asking people who have successfully purchased health insurance to let their pictures be used instead. Two of them told The Associated Press they found the site easy to navigate, were happy with the plans they purchased and were eager to share their stories in any format, including becoming the new face of the health care overhaul. Not long after she enrolled on Oct. 3, Deborah Lielasus of Portsmouth was contacted by the Department of Health and Human Services and asked to appear both in a video describing her experience and in photographs that could replace the stock photo. She agreed, in part, to set an example for her children. "I think it's important to show them that you shouldn't hide from being honest and being sincere and talking about something that you believe in," she said. "Although family members have said to me, 'You don't need this, don't do this, because you're just going to get hurt,' I have felt like it is important." Opponents aren't impressed. "The White House should focus more on fixing their flawed law and less time trying to prove their law isn't broken," said Kirsten Kukowski, spokeswoman for the Republican National Committee. Since the problem-plagued site launched Oct. 1, the stock photo has become the butt of jokes. The satirical newspaper The Onion posted an altered photo of the cover girl "visibly panicking," and others have dubbed her "Glitch Girl." The department declined to comment specifically on whether Lielasus' picture will have a place on the HealthCare.gov home page, on which the stock photo has been replaced by icons representing various enrollment methods. It also declined to comment on the broader marketing campaign, which so far includes posting video of Lielasus and another person on social networks, along with a dozen or so images and quotes praising the health care law. Since her video was posted, Lielasus has been criticized in news reports, online comments and personal emails for describing HealthCare.gov as easy to use even though she didn't enroll until three days after the site launched. But she wasn't sitting at her desk for 36 hours straight — she spent about an hour total over those three days — and once on the site, it was easy to navigate, she said. "I'm not a fool," she said. "I saw that there were issues logging on and staying logged on, but I also saw that the site itself, once they're able to overcome those problems, is going to be a really user-friendly, attractive site that people of all ages and technical abilities are going to be able to manage." In Orlando, Fla., 22-year-old Daniel McNaughton said his experience was similar. Like Lielasus, McNaughton said it was a Facebook post about his experience with HealthCare.gov that caught the administration's attention and led to his participation in the online video. McNaughton, a student at Valencia College, said he will be paying $70 per month for a plan that covers "anything I could possibly need." That's about what he's paying now for a catastrophic plan that covers only three doctor visits per year. McNaughton said he looks forward to not having to guess whether he needs antibiotics for the sinus infections he gets every winter. "I won't have to ration my doctor's visits," he said. "It gives me good peace of mind." He told administration officials it was "more than OK" with him if they wanted to use his picture on HealthCare.gov. "I think it would be a good thing to put my picture or others who've enrolled," he said. "It might make it easier for people to relate to what's going on with the exchange." |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Nobody in particular Date: 01 Nov 13 - 01:37 PM First, I have to say that I am not a citizen of the U.S.A, but if I were, I think I'd have to look at this debacle, without trying to colour it one way or another, and just look at the facts I think it is plainly apparent, that there is plenty of false information, being circulated, in regards to gathering support for your present administration's programmes. To what end, I will not speculate, nor should I, however there are some of you that should sincerely look into sobering up, and not replace rational thinking with believing the promotion campaigns, that are based on lies, false information, and foreknown repercussions to your people, that were purposely withheld. It is my opinion, that those who participated in such behaviour, should be lawfully removed from office, being as this is huge! I'm not going to name names, because it covers a wide spectrum, and there are just too many of them and they have cause massive damage to your government's credibility, and split the nature of your country. That, in turn, hurts the well-being of the rest of the world. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Nov 13 - 01:56 PM I just checked. My wife and I are covered on Medicare, and we have a good Medicare supplement insurance through AARP. The whole thing costs less per month than we pay for television / internet cable service. No sweat. I don't recall having to pay a medical bill in several of years. And just this year I had a couple of heart scans and a brain scan (yes, they found one) during a brief hospital visit (overnight) when I thought I might be having a stroke. Turned out to be a TIA. My doctor now has me on a couple of blood pressure drugs and I take an aspirin a day as a blood thinner. The supplement insurance even takes care of the co-pays. We don't have to do a thing. We're set. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Nobody in particular Date: 01 Nov 13 - 03:56 PM So in other words, you don't care about your fellow man, or fellow citizens, nor the impact of the fraud that has affected so many. You, sir, are a despot. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Nov 13 - 04:45 PM Nobody, if you are talking to me, then understand that what I am saying is that, with very few exceptions, the Affordable Care Act will work just as it is supposed to, and the caterwauling of Songwronger and a few others is just noise, expressing hatred for the President because of their particular political bias and the fact that they consider him to be the wrong color to occupy the White House. That, plus their chronic opposition to any attempt to change the nation's policies—such as providing decent, affordable health care to its citizens, and thus joining the rest of the civilized world—merely because they are afraid that it will require the obscenely wealthy in this country pay a bit more of their fair share in taxes. Every time the matter of providing a better health care system has come up, the usual suspects start screaming, lying their heads off, and in general, acting like spoiled brats! And the fact that you seem to consider it a fraud indicates that you might just be one of those spoiled brats. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Songwronger Date: 01 Nov 13 - 06:35 PM Firth is your typical American "liberal." He only cares for others once he has his. Here's an interesting new bit of information. Seems that not only did Obama and his people know that the 16+ million self-ensured Americans would get fucked out of their insurance (grandfather clauses not up to snuff), but also, a large segment of the 156 million who get employer-provided coverage will not be able to continue with their current plans: Forbes: White House Predicted in 2010 That 93 Million Would Lose Their Health Plans under ObamaCare ....Section 1251 of the Affordable Care Act contains what's called a "grandfather" provision that, in theory, allows people to keep their existing plans if they like them. But subsequent regulations from the Obama administration interpreted that provision so narrowly as to prevent most plans from gaining this protection. "The Departments' mid-range estimate is that 66 percent of small employer plans and 45 percent of large employer plans will relinquish their grandfather status by the end of 2013," wrote the administration on page 34552. All in all, more than half of employer-sponsored plans will lose their "grandfather status" and get canceled. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 156 million Americans—more than half the population—was covered by employer-sponsored insurance in 2013. http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/10/31/forbes-obama-officials-predicted-2010-93-million-would-lose-health-pl#ixzz So let's go back to the video of Obama telling you over the past 3 years that "If you like your health plan, you can keep it." Just 24 examples of him saying that in the 1 1/2 minute clip. And each time he said that, he knew he was lying. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Nobody in particular Date: 01 Nov 13 - 06:48 PM This may just be the end of anything liberal or progressive, and possibly a new surge of conservatives sweeping the next elections. Obama may be the best thing that ever happened to the conservatives, and yet at the same time, the most crippling thing to happen to your country, and all those other nations, who looked up to the U.S.A. He has lied to the world, he has lied to you, and those who don't hold him accountable, more than likely, are also liars and confidence men. I would think that true liberals would strive to get to the truth, and correct it, not make more lies and excuses. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Nov 13 - 10:44 PM "Firth is your typical American 'liberal.' He only cares for others once he has his." I am not wealthy by any means, Songwronger. I have mine? In comparison to WHOM?? Fat lot you know. About much of anything. And your source of information for President Obama's "lies" is "NewsBusters?" Yet ANOTHER arch-Conservative web site. Just more ladling from one of your favorite septic tanks. (And that goes for your little dog [Nobody in particular], too!) Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Nobody in Particular Date: 02 Nov 13 - 12:09 PM Mr. Firth, You seem either a bit confused, or hard of understanding. Mr. Obama, and his people have clearly been lying, or at least, intentionally been misleading people. To be insulting Songwonger, in this matter, may be your way of diverting people's attention, away from that fact. 'You can keep your healthcare plan', because you already have a public plan. That does not mean those who chose their private plans, are able to 'keep their plan', even if they liked it. Where I live, we have socialised medicine, and it had its problems getting started, and still does, but in your country, to implement socialised medicine, your government has resorted to outright lies, to deceive, those in your own party. When we want care better than what our form of healthcare, provides, guess what, we come here! or should I say came here. Yes, some of us would have to save up to get it, but that's how much it was worth to us, and to those whom we love. The way your country has handled this, is indicative of the mobster mentality that seems to have overtaken your political system, leaving 'true believers' such as yourself, looking as if you have no conscience, nor connection to the truth, in any way. Those who have voiced concern have every right to. After all, having used deception to achieve this transition, do you think that suddenly,the new system will be administered equitably?? That which comes in dishonestly, will, in fact, remain dishonest in its implementation, and administration. If you think differently, you are just foolishly deceiving yourself, into an intoxicated illusion. Why not support something formed and implemented honestly?? When does one stop this practise, of deceiving themselves into a delusion, just to further a cause? Before long, you will cause yourself mental damage, that your 'new form' of healthcare will not treat. Ever think about that? |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Nov 13 - 02:56 PM Nobody, I don't know what country you live in, but you display a considerable lack of understanding of the history of attempts to get a decent, single payer health care system in the United States. This has been going on since the time of Franklin D. Roosevelt, and every Democratic President since FDR has made attempts in that direction. The Republican fear mongers invariable start screaming "Socialized Medicine," as if it were the end of the world, despite the fact that it works quite well in a number of countries, the Scandinavian countries in particular (AND in some small far Eastern countries). During the cold war, they tried to imply that Socialized, or any move toward single payer health care, was "a Communist plot." I'm not making this up, nor am I getting it from some biased web site. I've been on this planet long enough to have orbited the sun quite a number of times, and I remember! AND I've had a fair amount of experience with health care providers and health insurance companies to know how badly the current system needs to be thoroughly reorganized—and regulated. By the way, the fact that you won't register and post under a consistent name undercuts your credibility. How do I know you're not just Songwronger using another name? That sort of scam has been done before. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Nobody in Particular Date: 02 Nov 13 - 04:13 PM The ACA, also known as Obama Care, was never represented to be a single payer plan, as you have alluded to, so to represent it as such, is also deception, is it not? So allow me to ask you two questions. In your honest assessment, why are you surprised, that so many people in your country, are now shifting their support, for both it, and your President, as the repercussions of the deceptive practises to being it about, are finally being felt? The second question, I'll ask you, after you respond to my first. Also, I am not Songwronger, but I have posted on this site before, under this same name. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Nov 13 - 07:33 PM First of all, as presented, it leaves a great deal to be desired. But it's about the best thing that President Obama could hope to get through with the present Congress, and even that isn't working. But if he had gone straight for a single-payer system, he would have slammed into the old curse phrase, "Socialized Medicine." He's trying for a compromise, and even the compromise isn't working. Many of the so-called "deceptions" attributed to President Obama are severe twistings of what he's really attempting (groping for a niche in the brick wall the Republicans have set up), these twistings authored by such people as Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly of Fox News, a multitude of Right Wing web sites, and people like Songwronger who merely parrot what these people say. Such twistings would not be necessary were it not that Congress is hell-bent on seeing to it that any attempt to change a badly flawed but highly lucrative (for health care providers and pharmaceutical companies) business remains as it is now. I've had occasion to make use of the current health care system in this country and I can tell you some real teeth-grinders about the practices of the system. The basic operating principle seems to be that since often the patient's life and well-being is at stake, screw it to him while you have the chance. Many individual doctors, genuinely concerned about the welfare of their patients, hate the system, but there is little they can do if they need access to clinics and hospitals for their patients. I am not enthralled with Barack Obama, but let's face it, he's no FDR. But then, not many presidents have the force of personality that FDR had to bring his programs about. President Obama is trying the best he can, but he's working against opposition who WANT to see him fail. Even if it messes up the rest of the country as well!! Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: GUEST,Nobody in Particular Date: 02 Nov 13 - 09:12 PM As I understand it, in your form of government, you have a balance of powers, Congress being one part, and the executive branch being another. I find it rather disingenuous of you to say Congress is holding him up, when, in fact, he had Congress on his side when he began his first term, and many of them were voted out, as a result of his policies. Is that not true? Plus, he and his administration seems to be plagued with very serious scandals, most of which have to deal with various forms of dishonesty, and possible criminal activities, which appear to be abuses of their positions. I'm not going to list them, but even we, across the pond, have not been kept in the dark about them. As it it now, this may just be another, in the growing list. I don't think that a Democracy is going to continue to run effectively, if the 'will of the people' amounts to deceiving the people, as to what they're being told, to believe, when it is false. I backed up this thread, and consistent with news accounts, Mr. Obama repeatedly has made false and inaccurate statements, as to the nature of his socialised medicine bill. Is that not true? Isn't it true, that his misleading your people has hurt Democrats as well as Republicans? I don't want to divert, but his statements regarding Syria, hurt America's credibility, in the world, tremendously! Is this the America that you want? Better yet, is this the America that you want to stand for, in the eyes of the rest of the world? You alluded to that you didn't know what country I was from; What does the origin of nationality have to do with honesty and integrity? I can tell you right now, that American policies abroad, are met with massive scepticism , as to what the truth is, regarding virtually everything that comes out of Washington. That being the situation, most people that I've spoken to, outside your borders, do not seem to have a problem with the American people, other than the concept that they are perceived as being a bit arrogant, but good hearted, mixed with being scared. I, myself, have noted an uneasiness on this current trip over. As it is now, we are enjoying a break from our project, and have mingled with some of your citizenry, and found them quite nervous about, not only your economy, but your nation's survival as a free land. Now, as to my second question to you, as I mentioned before. I asked you, "In your honest assessment, why are you surprised, that so many people in your country, are now shifting their support, for both it, and your President, as the repercussions of the deceptive practises it about, are finally being felt?" and you gave me a long, thoughtfully worded answer, based on your feelings, but failed to adequately answer my original question. So, let's try it again, so that I may continue with my second question to you. I do recognise that this discussion has been civil, yet on the borders of 'twisting' and factual. I don't think that Bill O'Reilly of Fox News, in concert with Rush Limbaugh, constitute the depth of the problem, nor should you perceive me to be that naive, to accept such a simplistic reply, as to culpability to your national problems. Try a more responsible answer. It doesn't have to be long, nor solicitous, but rather straight forward, and to the point. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Ebbie Date: 02 Nov 13 - 09:27 PM my goo'ness. those commas look most awfully familiar. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Nov 13 - 10:03 PM You make a lot of allegations about Obama's lies and deceptions, nobody, which is essentially what Songwronger does--without specifics. It's bit difficult to try to respond to that sort of thing. It's very much like asking, "Do you still beat your wife? Answer yes or no!" when, in fact, you have never beaten your wife. Fog, no substance. Don Firth |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 02 Nov 13 - 10:03 PM ""Firth is your typical American "liberal." He only cares for others once he has his."" The only people I have seen and heard saying "Not a penny of my money to support losers" have been Republicans. Don Firth is a supporter of a care system which has already halved the number of poor Americans who the Republicans consider unworthy of health care. People like Shitwrangler, who have theirs and don't give a flying fuck about anybody else. The Republican American Dream! Trample to death anybody who impedes your climb to the top, then shut the door and let nobody else in. Don T. |
Subject: RE: BS: So who's signed up for Obamacare? From: Sawzaw Date: 03 Nov 13 - 08:09 AM Part of an Obamacare registration drive last week in San Francisco wasdubbed the "Healthy Ho's Party."NEW YORK CNNMoney)A burlesque dancer dressed as a nurse taunts her co-performer with a toy syringe, dangling the medicine seductively in an act that's meant to reflect the cat-and-mouse game of U.S. healthcare. They shimmy and eventually end up topless. The risqué performance was part of an Obamacare registration drive last week in San Francisco, dubbed the "Healthy Ho's Party." Organized by "Siouxsie Q," a Bay Area sex worker, the event was meant to encourage other sex workers to enroll in the new insurance exchanges. It was a rousing success: Nearly 40 men and women attended and almost all of them filed enrollment paperwork. In the all-cash, off-the-books sex industry, workers can be particularly high risk and insurance is often out of reach. Many sex workers -- a broad term that can refer to a number of services, including sexual massage, prostitution, and escort and dominatrix work -- consider themselves self-employed entrepreneurs who can't afford to purchase healthcare. But that could all change with the Affordable Care Act. Siouxsie, 28, has shopped for plans countless times since 2008, coming up empty each time. She and her partner recently reviewed their healthcare options and found that a joint plan would have cost between $400 and $500 a month -- an unaffordably large chunk of their incomes. "We just couldn't swing [insurance] in the Bay Area -- we're lower middle class, recent college graduates, in Startup Land trying to make our way," she said. But come January 1, when the new law goes into effect, she and her partner will be looking at a monthly bill of between $175 and $200. They're deciding between two plans on the California exchange and will receive a tax credit of about $275 a month (without the credit it would have cost nearly $500). California's exchange site was down the first few times Siouxsie tried to navigate it, but she was able to successfully browse policies several times. (She nevertheless arrived at the party with stacks of paper applications so the night could continue even if the website was disrupted.) |