BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: Janie
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 12:22 AM

Clumbsy fingers on an unfamiliar laptop have cost two posts.

Condensed versions.

Kevin, well said. Also, preference does not imply value judgement. We all have preferences. I prefer greens and blues and subtle earth tones for any number of reasons, none of which involve value judgements. Preferences may lead or predispose to biases which may lead or predispose to actual prejudices. There is no clear line that disquishes one from another, but value judgements, and the extent to which one recognizes and weighs that a value judgement is involved factors in, as does the degree to which one mistakes a value judgement as fact or "truth". Value judgements have their place in our functioning and potential for survival as a species whose success so far and prospects for continued success depend, on the capacity to seek (and find frequently and sufficiently enough) the dynamic balance between the individual and the social. Our success as a species thus far has depended on both, even when they are in very dynamic tension.

Stim, I understand your view that the developing research began from a moral arguement. I disagree that the study is designed in such a way as to bias it toward her views. I've already briefly acknowledged the limitations regarding social science research and won't repeat them here.

Also, stilladdressing Stim, Humans are not hardwired for prejudice for the sake of prejudice. There is significant evidence and research that strongly suggests that prejudice is a signicant by-product of our wiring.

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: GUEST,Hookey Wole
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 01:05 AM

I don't trust personality tests.

In all fairness I would not dismiss this as any kind of shit just for the sake of being hostile.

It reminds me of the sort of theorising primarily concerning culture, identity & ideology, at the foundation of the Degree
and unfinished post grad, I suffered 3 decades ago.

I've managed to purge it all from my mind for such a very long time
and mostly been coasting ever since on the well informed opinions
I evolved about everything that mattered in my 20s & early 30s...

I can't help automatically reacting with suspicion when confronted by this academic stuff,
but it niggles me now because I've all too successfully forgotten why...???

I know where my old text books and notes & essays are stored,
but they're badly mildewed by now and probably too much of a health risk
to revisit for the sake of nostalgia and reawakening pained memories..

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 01:18 PM

Being very science oriented I was impressed by the control method, which seemed to be fairly balanced, such that positive and negative associations appeared in both directions as groupings were reversed.

I was surprised though, that my result gave me an unconscious bias completely at odds with my conscious ideals. Of course, this was on one single test and may not be significant.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 01:34 PM

Janie, I've written about five different responses that I haven't posted, because it is easier to say things that are either convoluted, confusing, or confrontational than it is to bring clarity to the issue. Then I realized that Rodgers and Hammerstein explained it best:


You've got to be taught
To hate and fear,
You've got to be taught
From year to year,
It's got to be drummed
In your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught to be afraid
Of people whose eyes are oddly made,
And people whose skin is a diff'rent shade,
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late,
Before you are six or seven or eight,
To hate all the people your relatives hate,
You've got to be carefully taught!

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: Megan L
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 01:52 PM

I just hope and pray no Idiot social workers from Orkney have got involved in this study the last time they listened to someone from America we ended with the South Ronaldsay Affair which raised our quiet community to world infamy in which many innocent people including young children and their parents suffered.

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: Janie
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 08:54 PM

Exactly, Stim.

Megan, I am completely ignorant of the situation to which you refer. I can not tell from what you posted above whether you view the social workers involved to be idiots, or have a prejudice that causes you to beleive and assert that all social workers are idiots. Also don't know that social worker means the same thing in the UK that it means in the USA. Based on my limited impressions of you from your posts on Mudcat, I am inclined to think you mean the former, but can't really know, and certainly am not inclined to make assumptions based on my limited impressions.

Sounds like you work at knowing yourself, Hookey, including recognizing biases and making consciou choices, therefore reducing unconscious choices.

Yeh, Don. I've been surprised more than once.

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: Janie
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 09:08 PM

Hookey, I inadvertently left out in my comments to you a reiteration that the exercises found on implicit.com are not personality "tests." But perhaps you meant that you mistrust all tests that arise from the fields included under the umbrella of psychology?

I'm curious because I want to understand, do you mean you suspiciously mistrust, or do you mean you strive to maintain an objective skepticim?

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 02:09 PM

I've been thinking and now realize that my calling the tests "horse shit" was an unconscious reaction.

I simply found it distasteful to have to associate "good and bad" with Asian and White. Perhaps it was coincidence that each of the three times I did the test it started with my self-identified group as good and other group bad. But if it always does that then I would still question the method.

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 11:20 PM

I couldn't figure out the test! What do e and i keys have to do with a face in the middle of the screen?

I admit that vision problems make it hard for me to read blocks of text, such as the directions on that site. I like lots of white space on my Internet pages.

I guess I'll never know...

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:18 AM

"Then I realized that Rodgers and Hammerstein explained it best":
.,,.,.
Mainly Hammerstein, I should say!...

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: maeve
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 06:30 AM

Janie, this is the horrible fiasco to which Megan referred: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ronaldsay_child_abuse_scandal

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: mg
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:32 AM

I do not think for a minute children have to be taught to hate and fear...or at least to gang up and bully other children based on the color of their shoelaces or whatever; it is pretty innate. Perhaps particular groups of their parents' preference..we were taught to fear Protestants and especially Masons...you don't have to hate and fear someone in order to want their lunch money but after you take i t out of sheer greed or feeling of entitlementor desperate circumstances then they hate and fear you and whatever features you have get generalized to otherws they will also hate and fear..one red head bullies you you hate and feao most redheads...one person in a wheelchair runs over your feet you believe on purpose you hate and fear pepople in wheelchairs..prejudices are very easily formed and have survival value or we would not acquire them without a huge amount of effort. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Unconscious prejudices - Harvard study
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:50 PM

On reading the Wiki piece on SRonaldsay, at first gloss, it appears that no Americans, either Social Workers, or not, were involved.   Why blame us, MeganL?