What is the Irish National anthem?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: The O'Meara
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 10:55 AM

Many years ago I worked for a republican congressman in Virginia. He was voted out of office during the backlash from the Nixon debacle, thus putting us both out of work. But during his 22 years in congress the only bill he introduced was one declaring that the Star Spangled Banner must always be played and sung in A flat.

Should have kept him on.

O'Meara

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 11:46 AM

A-flat sounds about the right key. But I can't see how having a law like that would be consistent with the phrase "land of the free"...

My impression is that a lot of people who would never dream of calling Derry Londonderry generally would prefer that form for the tune used for Danny Boy (ansd a few other songs as well). Somehow "The Derry Air" sounds like something you'd sit on.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 12:12 PM

McG, God Save the Queen can indeed be rendered in any key, but is actually in G, as surely as Bach's toccata and fugue in D minor is in D minor. I would guess that military bands and professional orchestras play the Soldier's Song in whatever key it was written and that this key was chosen with communal singing in mind.

LadyJean, Danny Boy is the name of a song sung to the Londonderry Air. And as Diesel pointed out, you must be careful - your protestant roots are showing. In practice many protestants call the place Derry simply because Londonderry is such a mouthful, and hang the politics. (Obviously politicians and others trying to make political points are more careful.)

When catholic supported/supporting parties took control of the city council in 1984 (after years of gerrymandering that had kept unionists in power) they changed the council's name from Londonderry to Derry. But the city had been incorporated as Londonderry during the reign of James I, and the council had no power to change that. Before 1613 it had been Derry, as Diesel said - an anglicised version of Doire, meaning (I think) a copse of trees.

The BBC, among others, takes a neutral line, alternating between the two names. During the 1980s a Northern Ireland radio journalist, Gerry Anderson, renamed the town Stroke City, when he got tired of saying "Londonderry-stroke-Derry." It caught on for a while, but seems to have fallen out of use.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 04:11 PM

Fionn you have got it "ass about face", what the man said was, Derry stroke Londonderry, or as Ian Paisley says" LONDONDERRY STROKE LONDON DERRY". Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 07:02 AM

So we should all have national anthems which don't offend anyone? That should be fun.

Derry/Londonderry is known in Irish as Doire Cholm Cille - St Columbkill's Oakwood, or possibly St Columbkill's Church, as Doire usually refers to a holy oakwood, and these were usually taken over by the Christians as their holy sites.

Doire is pronounced (roughly) Dirruh, which in English became Derry.

At some stage this was transmuted to Londonderry when a bunch of Londoners came in, as I understand, ushered by one or another English royal eager to improve Ireland by making it more English with the help of 'planters' - English, Welsh or Scottish settlers moved on to land confiscated from Irish owners.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 05:43 PM

McG, God Save the Queen can indeed be rendered in any key, but is actually in G, as surely as Bach's toccata and fugue in D minor is in D minor.

I don't think I agree there. The analogy with Bach's toccata would be a particular arrangement of the tune, which would indeed have a correct key. And no doubt the main official arrangement of God Save the Queen for state occasions is in G major.

However a different arrangement - whether that was a formally composed arrangement, or an informal one by some people singing in a pub would still be recognisably the same tune even in a different key. (Of course maybe that last might be more likely to happen to The Soldiers Song)

I note from a book of National Anthems I picked up in a library sale (which does indeed have God Save the Queen in G) that The Star Spangled Banner is given as in Bb - no wonder people complain about it being hard to sing. I think The O'Meara's boss had a point.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 03:15 PM

I've never noticed anyone having the slightest difficulty in singing Amhrán na bhFiann - the Irish national anthem.

Incidentally, for Munster fans, here's
There is an Isle sung by the crowd - definitely a three-hanky job for anyone with a heart in his breast.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 08:16 PM

A sight harder to sing that one than the Soldier's Song. But they had a good crack at it anyway. Where's that from?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,C.H.
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 09:52 PM

In my youth, while touring Ireland (up & down) with plays, at the end of the sound effects tape (reel to reel) we had about a yard of stop-foil followed by a foot each or red, white & blue leader followed by "God Save The Queen" followed by another yard of stop-foil, then a foot each of green, white & yellow leader followed by "The Soldiers Song". It helped to remember which side of the border you were on! (apart from that it made no difference - but that was in the early '60s, after the last and before the current troubles)
C.H.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 06:19 AM

McG of H

Limerick!

Regards

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 05:07 PM

There is an isle!


Regards

p.s. No idea how long that link may last - copy the text?

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Mar 05 - 05:16 PM

Interesting. It does have a Scottish feeling about it. The same you get with Folower of Scotland.

Subject: RE: What is the Irish National anthem?
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 23 Mar 05 - 03:48 AM

Back in the 70s, the Irish National Anthem sung at the end of sessions in Irish clubs (in England) was almost always in English. When did it change to Irish?

As for t'other one, the start of the chorus sounds so much like Leon Rosselson's 'Coats Off For Britain' that it's almost self- satyrising to me.