BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 04:21 PM

It wasn't reading the thread that I had in mind for people. What I had in mind was for people to watch the video I posted at 26 Oct 08 - 03:03 AM, and I will post again here. I'm beginning to get the impression that the sniper in this thread hasn't watched either of the videos I posted in it. And if that's the case, I don't think that person is in a position to comment at all...


Here's a new video of Naomi discussing more recent events, how the disaster capitalists are using/will use them to try to further their agenda, and some of the things we can do to take back our country from these insane and pathologically greedy people. One of the things she is suggesting is to begin pressuring Obama immediately after the election (if he gets elected) to respond to the majority of voters and what we want rather than to narrow special interests. One of the things she recommends is that we all put pressure on Obama to name Joseph Stiglitz as his treasury secretary and for us to make Robert Rubin, one of Obama's top economic advisors, as much of a political liability for Obama as the Reverend Wright (throw him under the bus, she says, and I agree)...

http://fora.tv/2008/10/16/Naomi_Klein_Disaster_Capitalism

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:03 PM

Well, *I*...(if I be the 'sniper'...not an image I try to cultivate...but..) have indeed watched the videos...and read some of the commentaries about the book and the video itself.

My comments, should I be inspired to type 12 pages, would be similar to some others I have made on similar topics......briefly, that it is easy to take some obvious truths, embroider with some dubious premises, take some threads from highly emotional events, and weave an elaborate tapestry of 'almost' compelling concepts by assuming that everything you don't like supports your thesis.

(you see, it WOULD take 12 pages to flesh out my defense of that little comment)

It's hard to disagree with an obviously intelligent author who is basically on MY side in the political arena, but she takes it so far into speculation that it is as embarassing to me as some right-wing diatribes must be to moderate conservatives.

It IS clear that many business interests have little shame in exploiting bad news to further their message when possible, but Naomi finds demons in every unfilled pothole ...or rather, in the fault-finding about road-repair scandals.

It is actually too bad, because she could really do some serious good if she limited herself to clearly definable dangers, but it's harder to get a full book and lecture series out of simple recounting of errors and greed, hmmm? A full-blown conspiracy with a memorable name is easier to sell...(wait...am I suggesting that she is using similar tactics to those she is decrying? I hadn't thought about it....but....No, *smile*, I won't go that far, lest I contradict myself).

One important point...many issues are 'pushed' along by the more extreme views. Civil Rights, Women's Liberation, Environmental Awareness, Anti-War activism...etc... all had "shock troops" willing to risk accusations of exaggeration in order to focus attention on certain aspects of a problem...and most of them needed to really 'believe' their own message in order to say what they needed, whether "in the trenches" or on the book circuit.

   I do feel fortunate that we can have a system that allows Naomi Klein to advocate her theories freely...and for Carol C. to link to them in this forum....and for me to offer my critiques advocating restraint, even if there ARE 11 pages missing.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:23 PM

I'm not seeing any specific items that Naomi mentions being refuted. Just broad sweeping generalizations about her general demeanor. That's not an argument. However, I didn't post either of the two videos to get people's opinions about them. I didn't post them in order to provoke discussion, either. I only posted them so people could watch them if they wanted to. Personally, I don't really care what other people's opinions are on the videos.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:43 PM

Ok, fine...but obviously, if a forum like this you do GET opinions.

I, too, hope others will watch them and read about the issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 02:46 AM

Just finished it. Most of it, I thought was pretty good. She, I thought could have expounded more on Rubin, Greenspan,Gingrich and Paulsen. Newt, in the 90's(don't know about now) was on the board of Goldman Sachs, as was Paulsen. Matter of Fact, it was Paulsen who negotiated lending policies, with out back up equity. Rubin is a scoundrel, through and through!

She was absolutely correct about when congress voted 'No' on the first 'bailout'(read:ransom).....but, well, you know politicians..how it got spun to be a good thing, instead of holding a line of integrity.

There was a radio show during the early and mid 90's called "We the People', with Chuck Harder, who explained all this in detail, and named names, of who is who in the Zoo. A lot of people thought he was too radical, but so far, he was right, dead on target!..including forecasting this whole economic fiasco going on now. According to him, this is going to snowball to unbelievable proportions, get bloody, and result in a totalitarian state, the likes of which will be devastating globally.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 03:44 AM

But I like what Naomi says about how we can try to prevent the worst from happening. I like what she says about the rest of us making sure there are some better ideas lying around during the crisis situation so that the ideas that the crisis capitalists want to foist upon us won't be the only ones that get considered. I like that she sees possibilities for making things turn out the way the majority of people want them to be rather than the way the disaster capitalists want them to be.

She gives examples of countries where the machinations of the disaster capitalists didn't turn out the way they intended - Argentina, for instance.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 09:58 AM

Maybe it's time that the "blood flows & the heads roll". Somewhere there's a song in there.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Oct 08 - 01:57 PM

Putting a populist president in the White House right when all the shock doctrines have been turned on full,
would be a great disappointment to those who wish to move into the final phase of total control.


The annonymous players of the ultimate Risk game need trillions to get into the game with egos to match.

I believe that it is not so much a love of a totalatarian fascist regieme that appeals to the monied players as it is
a system where the control of power does not change for generations instead of decades. They are "playing"
for their children.


isn't that just precious?

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:05 PM

There's nothing like the sense of entitlement that a powerful and wealthy family gets after several generations (or centuries) of life at the very top of the societal food chain....it becomes a self-perpetuating imperative.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:24 PM

well, Little Hawk...it is nice to agree totally with you on a point.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Cluin
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:38 PM

I'm glad you don't have to argue anymore, Bill and Hawk.

That sexual tension thing was getting us all down. ;)

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:43 PM

Yeah, it was wearing on me too... ;-) I prefer sexual tension vis-a-vis myself and Winona Ryder.

(I've given up on my recent infatuation with Sarah Palin. That last speech of hers was just a bit too stupid.)

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

*grin*.. You can't fool me, Cluin, you fed off it for your own pleasure.

Hawk & I will choose our issues and continue forever...and If I'm lucky, I'll get to go visit him and have a beer and do it LIVE someday.

Subject: RE: BS: Disaster Capitalism & The Shock Doctrine
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:47 PM

That would be great. Orillia awaits you, Bill.