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Secular Songs From Spirituals
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Subject: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 12:58 AM Which non-religious songs can you think of whose words-in part-come from spirituals or other religious songs? I'm thinking of civil rights songs, children's rhymes, military cadences, love songs, dance songs, and parodies of religious songs and more. I'll start the list in my next post. Join in if you have a mind too. Thanks! |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Scoville Date: 15 Jan 07 - 01:01 AM The long one about the Galveston Flood borrows the melody and at least part of the chorus from a spiritual, I think. And there's always the "Old-Time Religion" parody that uses the tune but has verses about naked Druids, and Aphrodite in her see-through nightie, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 01:24 AM The first song that I thought of for this list is: "We Shall Overcome" Protest Song-We Shall Overcome provides information about how "We Shall Overcome" became the theme song for the 1960s Civil Rights movement in the USA. However, this song was based on the spiritual "We'll Overcome", which was considerably more uptempo than the civil rights song. The first verse in this song is We'll overcome We'll overcome We'll overcome some day {Oh-o] Deep in my heart I do believe We'll overcome some day. -snip- The next verse was "We'll see His face" etc. "His" referred to Jesus Christ or God. Note that the words are "We'll" and not "We will". "We Shall Overcome", the civil rights song, was usually sung while people stood and held the hands of the persons standing at their side and swaying right & left in time with the music. This performance tradition helped symbolize the unity and helped raise the spirits of an often intergrated group of singers. This song can be tremendously moving, particularly when sung in such an environment, or-even more I can imagine-when sung by protesters during their civil rights demonstrations and/or while they were in jail because of those demonstrations. In honor of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, whose birthday is today, see this tribute to Dr. King- a Dr. King photo collage, and excerpts of his "We shall Overcome" speech. This high quality video ends with a performance of the song "Abraham, Martin, and John' by Moms Mabley. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxc8QxQfYbs&mode=related&search= January 13, 2007 ; From riesen2b -snip- Also, see this video clip of "Joan Baez Live at Woodstock 1969" "Joan Baez Live at Woodstock 1969 performing 'We Shall Overcome' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdi0c2EoxUY Added October 08, 2006; From GuvK -snip- Joan Baez's rendition of "We Shall Overcome" is much slower than the spiritual and is slower than the tempo I remember used for that civil rights song. However, regardless of the tempo, the beauty of the song's message still shines through. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 01:43 AM Scoville, yes I think that "Wasn't that a mighty time etc... comes from the spirtual "Wasn't that a mighty day" or "Wasn't it a mighty day". Songs based on that spiritual have been used to commemorate floods like the Galveston flood and the flood and tragedy of Hurricane Katrina. Here's one example: "A Mighty Day Music: traditional Katrina disaster lyrics by Theodore Bikel I remember one September, When storm winds swept the town; The high tide from the ocean, Lord, Put water all around. Chorus: Wasn't that a mighty day, A mighty day A mighty day, Great God, that morning When the storm winds swept the town! There was a sea-wall there in New Orleans To keep the waters down, But the high tide from the ocean, Lord, Put water in the town. Chorus -snip- Theodore Bikel- Wasn't That A Mighty Day ** The line "wasn't that a mighty day/when Jesus washed my sins away" is found in at least one gospel song, but I can't think of which one {or ones} now. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Stephen L. Rich Date: 15 Jan 07 - 01:48 AM Fred Campeau wrote one to the tune of "Well, Well, Well". Hide yourself Taxman's comin' Hide you wife, And your children, too. Pack up the dog, And all your belongings. Taxman's out, And he's after you! Stephen Lee |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:04 AM Years ago I "zeroxed" pages from a book on freedom songs compiled by Guy & Candie Ritchie and published in 1963 by Oak Publications, New York {Library of Congress Catalogue Number 63-23278. While I have pages from this book, I don't have the cover sheet and therefore don't know its title. If anyone can knows this book, and can provide its title, that would be great. Here are two excerpts from commentary about the song "We Shall Overcome" which is found on page of the edition of this book whose pages I have: "WE SHALL OVERCOME Words and music arranged by Zilphia Horton,Frank Hamilton, Guy Carawan, and Pete Seeger @1960, 1963 Ludlow Music {Author's royalties from this composition are being conributed to teh freedom movement under the trusteeship of the writers} This modern adaptation of the Old Negro church song "I'Ll Overcome Someday", has become the unofficial theme song for the freedom struggles in the South. The old words were "I'll be all right...I'll be like Him...I'll wear a crown...I will overcome." "Negro Food and Tobacco Union workers in Charleston, South Carolina adapted the song for picket line use during their strike in 1945, and later brought it to Highlander Folk School." It soon became the school's theme song and [was]associated with Zilphia Horton's singing of it.She introduced it to union gatherings all across the South. On one of her trips to New York, Pete Seeger learned it from her and in the next few years he spread it across the Morth. pete, Zilphia and others added verses appropriate to labor, peace, and integation sentiments: We will end Jim Crow...We shall live in Peace...We shall organize...The whole wide world around...etc..." -G.C. -snip- " One cannot describe the vitality and emotion this one song evokes across the Southland. I have heard it sung in great mas meetings with a thousand voices singing as one; I've heard a half-dozen sing it softly behind the bars of the Hinds County prison in Mississippi; I've herd old women singing it on the way to work in Albany, Georgia;I've heard the students singing it as they were being dragged away to jail. It generates power that is indescribable." -snip- A photo in that same book reminded me that when folks stood and held hands while singing "We Shall Overcome", their arms were criss-crossed at their waists, with the person on each side holding another individual's. My sense is that this symbolized unity & determination. I believe the proper way of doing this is for the right arm to be above the left arm, but I'm not certain about that. Since I wasn't in the freedom movement,I'm not sure if this style of holding hands and singing was done for other songs. Thanks to all who were [and are] in that and/or in other freedom movements! |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:05 AM Sorry, that song & comments are found on page 11 of that book. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:37 AM This military cadence reads like it comes from a spiritual: IN THE EARLY MORNING RAIN Got a letter in the mail Go to war or go to jail Got a letter in the mail In the early morning rain I packed my bags, I kissed my wife And headed for the Army life I packed my bags, I kissed my wife In the early morning rain I told my son not to cry But I had tears in my eyes I told my son not to cry In the early morning rain With my weapon in my hand And a pocket full of sand With my weapon in my hand In the early morning rain Got the enemy to my front And the ocean to my rear Wounded dying's all I hear In the early morning rain As I'm laying here to rest Caught a bullet in the chest Even though I've done my best In the early morning rain Tell my darling not to cry Cause I'll never say good-bye Tell my darling not to cry In the early morning rain Many a soldier will die today Guess there's nothing left to say So our children, they can play In the early morning rain Yes, now Sergeant I can see Why this training's good for me Forever more we will be free In the early morning rain Reposted from: Grunts Military Cadences -snip- Does anyone know this chant? I think it's very poetic, not to mention sad. I'm not sure how old it is. I vaguely recall an African American spiritual whose title is "In The Morning/when I rise/I want to rise holy etc". I believe I heard this song peformed by Sweet Honey In The Rock and it may be on one of their CDs. Btw, if you're interested in African American freedom songs, this group's CDs are a must have, especially "All For Freedom" {1989} |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:44 AM Freedom Over Me? |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: John on the Sunset Coast Date: 15 Jan 07 - 09:25 AM This Little Girl (Light) of Mine - Ray Charles Down By the Riverside - a fifties version, "I met my little blue-eyed girl down by the riverside." Mills Bros? |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:21 AM Suggest you review extensive thread on civil rights songs.... ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:32 AM The children's game song "Way Down Yonder in the Paw Paw Patch" appears to come from the spiritual "Where Is Old Elijah? (The Hebrew Children, The Promised Land) See these Mudcat threads: RE: Where oh where is old Elijah? and Origins: Paw Paw Patch, anyone? |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:33 AM And I believe there's a blues related to spirituals thread too.... ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:36 AM And here are their thread titles, retrieved from the Spirituals permathread: Gospel Origin-- Civil Rights & Labor Songs. Blues Related to Spirituals. Gary Davis Songs. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Richie Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:48 AM Shout Mourner songs also known as You Shall Be Free: Shout to glory, Lawd, you shall be free, Shout to glory, Lord, you shall be free, Shout, mourner, Lord, you shall be free, Shout when de good Lord set you free! I went down to hog-eye town, Dey sot me down to table; I et so much dat hog-eye grease, Till de grease run out my nabel. Run 'long home, Miss Hog-eye, Singin' high-stepper, Lord, you shall be free. Excerpt from "Folk-song and Folk-poetry as found in the Secular Songs of the Southern Negroes: Part 2" by Odum. It's interesting that "Shout to glory, Lawd, you shall be free," is combined in the same song with the bawdy "hog-eye" lyrics. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:50 AM And what about "She'll Be Comin Round The Mountain"? Isn't that based on the spiritual "When the Chariot Comes" and the "Old Ship of Zion" See Q's comments in this Mudcat thread: Lyr Req: She'll Be Coming Around the Mountain |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Alba Date: 15 Jan 07 - 12:04 PM Thanks for posting those Links Susan. I was just about to add some lyrics but checked the links and Can't understand why this keeps happening again and again. Repeating what has already been done on the forum already! Don't see the logic myself. It's as if all the effort a lot others have made for years on this forum means nothing. Kinda sad. Ah well. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: GUEST,Mike Miller Date: 15 Jan 07 - 12:16 PM Ray Charles made a career from adapting religious songs. "I Got a Woman, Way 'Cross Town" is from "We Are Crossing Jordan's River, I Want My Crown". Nat "King" Cole sang "Answer Me, Oh My Love" after Frankie Laine had recorded the original "Answer Me, Lord, Above" The 50's was a time of such adaprions. I will never forget Patti Page covering the Jewish Prayer "Eli, Eli" as "Father, Father". At least Perry Como sang it in Hebrew. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jan 07 - 01:21 PM Alba, This habit of always, always, always starting a new thread without checking existing resources and adding to or incorporating them makes for a serious disconnect in the flow of cultural research of what we loosely call "the spirituals" and all the musics that sprang from them. I'm especially concerned that the recent spate of YouTube links to videos, showcasing songs already posted elsewhere, will not appear in the threads where the songs themselves, and the rich discussions on the songs, are already posted. I just don't have time these days to put them there, or link them song by song into the permathread. It's too bad, since those songs will turn up on a search in the threads where they were first posted-- the subject lines of the posts here will not direct people to them easily. There are SO MANY ways the new information could easily be linked to the older information, but there's nothing being done as it now stands to make sure people (using usual Mudcat search processes the way the FAQ describes them) will ever find them. What I wouldn't have given, for example, when our band first started singing the spirituals, to have had a video resource to help me learn different approaches to them! The way it is now-- I would not even have known to look here for them. THAT's what I'm trying to work out now, in my mind-- how to put something in the permathread that will give people coming along later at least a hope of finding more information, without taking up time on a daily basis to see what else has been posted in this disconnected way. I never envisioned, when I organized the permathread, an issue like this one where the existing work is not built-upon in the new work. Short of a link to Azizi's entire posting history, with a brief description of what one may find by comping her posts, I just don't know what to do. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: GUEST,Dani Date: 15 Jan 07 - 02:06 PM (My Baby's Coming Home Tomorrow) Ain't That Good News, sung by Sam Cooke. Dani |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: katlaughing Date: 15 Jan 07 - 04:19 PM It a shame, Susan, and disrespectful and rude that folks don't do their homework and wind up making so much more clutter and, if someone like you figures out how to do it, so much more work to straighten things out with proper links and all. The many, many years you and others have been here, working carefully on Permathreads, cross-linking and not duplicating research already done deserves to be recognised and honoured. Thanks for all of your hard work. kat |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 05:37 PM This thread is not as much about spirituals as it is about secular songs that are adapted from spirituals. In my opinion, if this topic has been covered before, then links to the previous discussion{s}can be posted on this thread. Also in my opinion, because folks have had discussions before on a specific topic, does not mean that that topic can't be discussed in a new thread. If new information is posted on a thread, and if new insights & different perspectives, and different variants are shared, then how is this duplication? And also, fwiw, a review of my posts will show that I have consistently acknowledged the work that WYSIWYG and others have done on the African American Spiritual Permathread and I have also posted a hyperlink to that thread and other threads in posts that I have written. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 05:47 PM This parody of a spiritual is included in Thomas W. Talley's 1922 collection "Negro Folk Rhymes" [Kennikat Press edition, p. 122] PARODY ON "REIGN, MASTER JESUS,REIGH!" Oh rain! oh rain! Oh rain, "good" Mosser! Rain, Mosser, rain! Rain hard! Eain flour a' lard an' a big hog head Down in my back yard. An' we'n you comes down to my cabin, Come down by de corn fiel'. If you cain't bring me a piece o' meat, Den bring me a peck o' meal. Oh rain! Oh rain! Oh rain, "good" Mosser! Dat good rain gives mo' rest. "What d'you say? You N----, dar! "Wet ground grows grass best." |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: katlaughing Date: 15 Jan 07 - 06:13 PM In my opinion, if this topic has been covered before, then links to the previous discussion{s}can be posted on this thread. In my opinion, common courtesy dictates doing your homework before starting a new thread. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 15 Jan 07 - 07:16 PM There's a number of secular songs that seem to be adaptations of the religious song "Down By The Riverside". This Mudcat thread has some interesting discussion of this song: RE: Origins: history of Down by the Riverside The line "aint gonna grieve, my Lord, no more" [my punctuation] is found in a number of children's rhymes including the "Oh you'll never get to heaven" taunts such as: Oh you'll never get to heaven with ____'s face cause ____'s face is ah disgrace. Oh you'll never get to heaven with ___ face 'cause ___'s face is a disgrace Ain't gonna grieve, my Lord, no more. -snip- Around 2001 or so, I learned a rhyme called "The Preacher Went Down To The Cellar" from a young African American woman in Pittsburgh, PA area who said that she learned this rhyme when she was a child. This rhyme also has the line "Ain't gonna grieve ,my Lord, no more": It goes like this: Oh the preacher went down to the cellar to pray. But he got drunk and stayed all day. Oh the preacher went down to the cellar to pray but he got drunk and stayed all day. Ain't gonna grieve, my Lord, no more. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: wysiwyg Date: 15 Jan 07 - 08:09 PM I'm working on some solutions... we'll see what develops. Volunteers can PM me. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Scoville Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:59 AM I find it a little hard to believe that this is the only thread on here right now that could be interpreted as "redundant". I seem to remember having been asked about correcting grammar in songs before, and several times about my favorite guitar brands, and innumerable times about transferring cassettes to CD. Has this complaint been posted on those threads, as well? My issue with PermaThreads is that eventually they get so long that one cannot find what one wants in them anyway, especially amid the amusing but uninformative asides or interpersonal debates that invariably sidetrack most threads at some point. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: katlaughing Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:31 AM Have you tried CTRL-F for finding things in Permathreads? The Song Origins Permathread is alphabetised. Shouldn't be too difficult to find something in there, plus all Permathreads are edited, so there shouldn't be a lot of sidetrack stuff to wade through. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 16 Jan 07 - 06:09 PM The spiritual "{I'm Gonna Sit At} The Welcome Table" was used as a civil rights song see this thread: thread.cfm?threadid=93754#1808170 RE: Origins: Gospel song 'The Welcome Table' |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: dick greenhaus Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:45 PM Pie In the Sky Roll the Old Chariot Along (sea shanty) We are Climbing Jacob's Ladder (Workers of the South) Hold the Fort Miner's Lifeguard and about half the IWW songbook |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:02 PM Dick, what's the IWW songbook? |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Joe_F Date: 16 Jan 07 - 09:57 PM At St Andrews University, 1959: To Crimond: There was a Presbyterian cat Went searching for her prey. She foond a moose within the hoose Upon the Sawbath day. The people all were horrifiet, And they were grieved sair, And straightway led that wicked cat Before the ministair. The ministair was horrifiet And unto her did say: "O naughty cat, to catch a moose Upon the Sawbath day." "The Sawbath's been, frae days of yore, An institution." So they straightway led that wicked cat To execution. Moral: The higher up the plum tree grows, The sweeter grow the plums; The more the cobbler plies his trade, The broader grow his thumbs. To Cwm Rhondda: ||: You must eat when you are hungry. You must drink when you are dry. :|| You must rest when you are weary. ||: Don't stop breathing, or you'll die. :|| ||: Father's pants will soon fit Willie. Will 'e wear 'em? Willie will. :|| Will 'e wear 'em? Will 'e wear 'em? ||: Will 'e wear 'em? Willie will. :|| To the Doxology: "The Wheel" (A sailor told me before he died -- I don't know whether the bastard lied -- About a maid, etc.) Also, I gather that the tune of "On Ilkley Moor baht Hat" originally belonged (in the north of England) to "When Shepherds Watched Their Flocks by Night". Finally, there is a story, which I am not inclined to believe (tho I think it once appeared in Time Magazine) that a laxative manufacturer offered to supply free hymnbooks to the churches in the village, if it were allowed to insert one free advertisement. That seemed reasonable; and indeed, when the books were delivered, it seemed that the advertisement was missing. Next Christmas, however, the parishioners found themselves singing Hark, the herald angels sing, Beecham's pills are just the thing, Move you gently, meek and mild: Two for adult and one for child. Regular administration, Just the thing for constipation. How can man to art aspire If his soul is not on fire? How can man crawl into bed With his belly full of lead? |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: wysiwyg Date: 16 Jan 07 - 10:07 PM Azizi, IWW brings up a number of interesting results on Lyrics & Knowledge Search (blue search box up top). ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 16 Jan 07 - 11:12 PM Susan, thanks for sharing. However, there's often a richness to people to people communication that can't be duplicated by using a blue or any other color search box. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Alba Date: 17 Jan 07 - 04:39 AM My oh my there are some very interesting results in Search regarding the IWW. Joe F, hilarious...I do hope the Times story is true...**giggle** Good to see you Dick. Hope your keeping well. Belated Happy New Year to you and yours Jude |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:58 AM Here's the hyperlinks to two Mudcat threads that contain lyrics to civil rights {freedom songs that come from spirituals or gospel songs: Gospel Origin-Civil Rights & Labor Songs and Subject: Lyr Add: STANDIN' ON JESUS |
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Subject: Lyr: Add: Certainly Lord From: Azizi Date: 17 Jan 07 - 07:26 AM CERTAINLY LORD {traditional African American spiritual; version by Timothy Wright} I want to know do have good religion Like the Bible says Certainly Lord I want to know do you love everybody Like the Bible says Certainly Lord I want to know is your name on the roll Like the Bible says certainly Lord I want to know if you've been baptized Like the Bible says certainly Lord (Verse) Each sign shall follow Them that believe And if you trust in the Lord You shall receive Goodness and mercy shall follow you If you just keep the faith He'll see yout through yes, Yes, Certainly Lord Yes, Yes, Certainly Lord (Repeat) (Verse) Yes, Yes, Certainly Lord Yes, Yes, Certainly Lord (Repeat) Ohh, Ohh, Ohh Ohh Ohh Ohh (Repeat) Yes, Yes, Certainly Lord Certainly Lord Certainly Lord Certainly Lord Certainly Lord Certainly Lord http://www.lyricsandsongs.com/song/566722.html |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 17 Jan 07 - 07:29 AM Here's commentary on the gospel song "Certainly Lord" : "What do you mean by the music being functional? Boyer : Many people would like to think that the Negro spiritual was created during a great church service and sitting in some wonderful cathedral, when in fact people were out in the field. The group is over here, chopping cotton. And a group is over here, picking tomatoes. And all of a sudden somebody over there says, ""Have you got good religion?"" And this group over here says, ""Certainly, Lord."" They may not have all said the same thing at the same time. They might have said, "Yeah," or "Mm hm." And he would come back: ""Have you got good religion?" " By that time, they're thinking that ""Certainly", Lord" sounds good. ""Have you got good religion?"" Over here: ""Certainly, Lord. Certainly, certainly, certainly, Lord."" And you know how we talk about rhythm being the distinguishing factor between European music and African American music. That rhythm, that pulse is so strong in there that it's a good working song. As a matter of fact, not only did they sing it when they were working, but they sang it when they walked from this field up to the big house, or to the next plantation, or when they rocked the baby to sleep, or when they were cleaning the greens for dinner. We don't have them singing "I'm looking over a four-leaf clover," or "East side, west side." None of that. They're singing these songs that somehow they put words to from their church service. And I have read enough now to know that yes, the Negro spirituals were sung during church service, but they were also work songs. People sang these to accompany something. Whatever they needed, they created themselves out of this music." Commentary about African American spiritual "Certainly Lord" |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 17 Jan 07 - 07:32 AM Here's a link to & and a review of a CD that contains numerous civil rights songs: Voices of the Civil Rights Movement: Black American Freedom Songs 1960-1966 Various Artists http://www.smithsonianglobalsound.org/trackdetail.aspx?itemid=29303 "Notes: This double-CD reissue documents a central aspect of the cultural environment of the Civil Rights Movement, acknowledging songs as the language that focused people's energy. These 43 tracks are a series of musical images, of a people in coversation about their determination to be free. Many of the songs were recorded live in mass meetings held in churches, where people from different life experiences, predominantly Black, with a few White supporters, came together in a common struggle. These freedom songs draw from spirituals, gospel, rhythm and blues, football chants, blues and calypso forms. The enclosed booklet written by Bernice Johnson Reagon provides rare historic photographs along with the powerful story of African American musical culture and its role in the Civil Rights Movement. The music of the spirit with the history of the flesh." -New York Daily News -snip- This site also provides brief sound clips to a number of these songs including, "Certainly Lord". |
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Subject: Lyr: Add: Civil Right's Song "Certainly Lord" From: Azizi Date: 17 Jan 07 - 07:39 AM CERTAINLY LORD {adaptation of traditional song by members of CORE [Congress Of Racial Equality]} Well, have you been to the jail Certainly, Lord Well, have you been to the jail Certainly, Lord Well, have you been to the jail Certainly, Lord Certainly, certainly, certainly, Lord. Well did they give you thirty days?... Well did you serve your time?... Well will you fight for freedom?... Well will you tell it to the world?... Well will you tell it to the judge? -snip- Source: book on Civil Rights Songs {name ??}, authors Guy and Candie Carawan, Oak Publications, 1963; p. 67; Library of Congress Catalog Number 63-23278 [Jubilant] |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 17 Jan 07 - 07:44 AM Here's another version of "Certainly Lord" sung as a civil rights song: CERTAINLY LORD Do you want your freedom? "Certainly, Lord" Do you want your freedom? "Certainly, Lord" Do you want your freedom? "Certainly, Lord" Certainly, Certainly, Certainly Lord Will you march for your rights? "Certainly, Lord" Will you march for your rights? "Certainly, Lord" Will you march for your rights? "Certainly, Lord" Certainly, Certainly, Certainly, Lord Will you go to jail? "Certainly, Lord" Will you go to jail? "Certainly, Lord" Will you go to jail? "Certainly, Lord" Certainly, Certainly, Certainly, Lord Jail over bail? "Certainly, Lord" Jail over bail? "Certainly, Lord" ail over bail? "Certainly, Lord" Certainly, Certainly, Certainly, Lord [source: my remembrance of this song from Atlantic City, New Jersey, 1962-1963} ** The "jubilant" in the last thread refers to the tempo. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: wysiwyg Date: 17 Jan 07 - 10:27 AM Azizi, yes I know that. I also know Dick pretty well and that he is not always to be counted upon to return to a thread to see and respond to a query. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: GLoux Date: 17 Jan 07 - 02:14 PM IWW - Industrial Workers of the World - Songbook -Greg |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 17 Jan 07 - 06:08 PM Thanks, Greg. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Alec Date: 18 Jan 07 - 02:43 PM Didn't "Stand By Me" start life as a devotional song? I came across that assertion in print but can't remember where. Can anybody confirm or refute? |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: GUEST,Ken Brock Date: 18 Jan 07 - 03:46 PM One from the Weavers' repertoire: "Woke Up this Morning". The spiritual started with "Woke up this morning with my mind stayed on Jesus". It became a protest song as "Woke up this morning with my mind stayed on freedom". In the liner notes to one of the Weavers' recordings, they recall discussing the versions with a protester, and their response was "Honey, it's the same thing". |
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Subject: Comment & RE: Lyr Add: I Gotta Move From: Azizi Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:06 AM From http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:kn85ZOxM01QJ:www.stanford.edu/~rickford/L73/SS.Ch5.SingersToasters.rtf+you+gotta+move+when+ : ...when one wishes to verbalize the marvelous properties that make one hip, outta sight, cool, funky, bad and, more recently, fly, the most appropriate language to use is often Black English, which, by virtue of the experience that produced it, is uniquely qualified to convey the intoxicating way possessing those properties feels. The point was not lost on the Rolling Stones. The Stones, like other bands to emerge while rock and roll was young, got famous by borrowing black styles and black talk, and mostly without attribution. Even the name of the group was plucked from a song originally recorded by blues great Muddy Waters (see "Mannish Boy" excerpt below). Several of the Stone's hits can be loosely traced to black standards of the South, but a few are just plain knock-offs. When recording "You Gotta Move" in 1971, for instance, the band did nothing more than lay a grinding electric guitar behind old, old lyrics: You gotta move, you gotta move, child Oh, when the Lord gets ready You gotta move The original "I Gotta Move," was sung in black churches for years, and is likely still being performed. The song contains many of the classic characteristics of "ring shouts," those praise sessions of slaves who rekindled faith and resisted misery by drawing themselves into animated worship circles. Ring shouts tended to carry simple messages and contain simple lyrics. It was their rendering that was adorned. The following version of "I Gotta Move," recorded in the 1960's during a live, acappella performance by a group of Georgia Sea Island women, began at an almost lilting pace, with booming voices, syncopated claps and stomps on a naked floor creating, in the truest sense, an orchestra without instruments. One woman kicked off each line, but she was quickly accompanied by the harmonizing wails of the others. Then, a few bars into the plaintive melody, the plodding footfalls sped up and the clapping went double-time. The resulting sound was layered and throbbing and sepulchral, as if it had wafted up from a sad, sad netherworld: I got ta move, we got ta move We got ta move, we got ta move O, when the Lord, get ready You got ta move You may be rich, you may be poor, You may be high, you may be low, But when the Lord get ready, You got ta move. My brother move, my brother move My brother move, my brother move O, when the Lord, get ready You got ta move. Sometime I'm up, sometime I'm down Sometime I'm almost to da groun' O, when the Lord, get ready You got ta move. There are layers of meaning here as well as sound. You got to move when the spirit says move, the song suggests, like when the Holy Spirit winds you up on Sunday morning. But you've also got to move on home to Jesus when He says it's time to rest. And this is the great equalizer, for as is observed, the rich and high-ups must go before Him when He gets ready, same as the poor and low-downs. Such a profound faith in the equal opportunity of mortality should have scraped a slaver's spine like an icy finger. Lord knows all men were created equal, the lyrics seem to imply. And eventually you will too." |
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Subject: Lyr; Add: Move When The Spirit Says Move From: Azizi Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:18 AM YOU GOTTA MOVE WHEN THE SPIRIT SAYS MOVE {from African American spiritual; Atlantic City, New Jersey version which was also used as a civil rights song} You gotta move when the spirit says move. {move move} * You gotta move when the spirit says move. When the spirit says move you gotta mo-ove, Lord. You gotta move when the spirit says move. You gotta walk when the spirit says walk. {walk, walk} * You gotta walk when the spirit says walk. When the spirit says walk you gotta wa-alk, Lord. You gotta walk when the spirit says walk. [same pattern: talk, sing, shout, pray, march, sit] When used as a civil rights song, the verbs "march" and "walk" referred to {marching/walking demonstrations, and the verb "sit" referred to "sitins" when African Americans sat at lunch counters and other restaurants which only served White customers. * optional; if used, these words were only sung by some members of the group or choir. I remember this song as being moderately uptempo. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Azizi Date: 19 Jan 07 - 08:38 AM Correction to You Gotta Move When The Spirit Says Move [variant form of "I Got Ta Move", recollection from Atlantic City, New Jersey 1950s-mid 1960s.] The optional phrase is three verbs repeated and not just two; for instance: "move move move"; sing sing sing" etc. |
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Subject: RE: Secular Songs From Spirituals From: Peace Date: 20 Jan 07 - 12:51 AM Great thread Azizi. It could do without some of the sniping from the usual crew, but great thread anyway. Keep it up. Some of the Motown hits were influenced by spirituals also. Of course, there's probably a thread for that already. Anyway, hang in there. Good work. |
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