Subject: When Joneses' Ale was New From: GUEST,DBlack2547@aol.com Date: 22 Aug 02 - 05:43 PM I heard someone (don't remember who) sing this song once at the old Ark coffee house in Ann Arbor, Michigan many years ago. It stuck in my mind for some reason, and also pleased my kids when I'd sing what I could remember of it. Can't find the lyric; can anyone help? It has a list of professions of men who come into a tavern and make their declarations about themselves, like so: "The next to come in was a dyer And he sat down by the fire And he sat down by the fire for to join in the jovial crew He told the landlady right to her face That the chimney corner was his own place And there he would sit and would dye his own face Chorus: When Joneses' ale was new, me boys When Joneses' ale was new And they ordered their pints of beer and bottles of sherry To help them over the hills so merry To help them over the hills so merry When Joneses' ale was new, me boys When Joneses' ale was new I believe there was a mason whose hammer, it needed refacin' and a tinker who was no small beer drinker. Probably more as well. Many thanks if you can help. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Susanne (skw) Date: 22 Aug 02 - 06:18 PM It's in the DT: Jones' Ale. You can find songs in the DT and also threads in the Mudcat Café if you type some characteristic passage from the song into the "Digitrad and Forum Search" box to the left of the "Filter" box at the top of the thread list. Remember that titles and proper names are tricky, though. You spelled it Joneses', I searched for Jones's, and the DT has Jones' - any one phrase from what you quoted above would have been safer! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Murray MacLeod Date: 22 Aug 02 - 06:20 PM You can find one version Here Murray |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: GUEST Date: 22 Aug 02 - 07:01 PM Look for 'There was a jovial tinker' on the Bodleian Ballads webite. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: GUEST,dblack Date: 22 Aug 02 - 11:17 PM Thanks for all your input. The lyrics provided differ slightly from what I remember, but all the elements are there. My daughter will be very pleased. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Mr Happy Date: 23 Aug 02 - 03:21 AM see also kipper family's 'peculiar ale' |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: pavane Date: 23 Aug 02 - 09:11 AM The Bodleian library actually has several versions of this very old song, some in black lettering. It seems to have originally been Joan's ale (Jones ale in old spelling), not Jones's ale. The early versions have more characters, including a Dutchman, but not the chorus as we know it. |
Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN JONES' ALE WAS NEW (new verses) From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Aug 02 - 09:20 AM For some newer verses from my drinking song sweat shop: New Verses
The next came in was a mortician.
The next came in was a sailor,
The next came in was a sock troll,
The next came in was a chicken plucker,
The next came in was an attorney,
The next came in was a firefighter,
The next came in was a financier,
Cheerily, |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: GUEST,Bman Date: 23 Aug 02 - 04:52 PM Charley, Loved it. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Charley Noble Date: 23 Aug 02 - 09:01 PM Bbman-they's all mine but you can sing them out to your heart's delight.;~) Cheerily, Charley Noble |
Subject: Lyr Add: JOAN'S ALE IS NEW (from a 1680 broadside) From: pavane Date: 24 Aug 02 - 04:15 PM This is not necessarily what you want, but for historical interest, here is a 1680 version. (Someone has probably posted it before!) JOAN'S ALE IS NEW
There was a jovial Tinker
The tinker he did settle,
The Cobler and the Broom-man,
The Rag man he being weary,
The Pedler he drew nigher, The Second part, to the same tune
And then in came a Hatter,
The Taylor being nimble,
Then came a pittiful Porter,
The bonny brave Shoo-maker.
And then in came the Weaver,
Then came a drunken Dutchman,
A Welshman he came next sir,
Thus like to men of courage stout
From a copy in the Bodleian Ballad Library Transcribed by Neil Jennings
Notes Shentleman because the Welsh use Sh to approximate a J sound (thus Sian for Jane, Sion for John) Corrections made as per later messages; also capitals and punctuation added to correspond to the broadside. --JoeClone, 27-Aug-02. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 24 Aug 02 - 05:00 PM Verse 1 line 3: He never was a shrinker Verse 2 line 5: His Neibors (neighbours), I'd say. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: pavane Date: 25 Aug 02 - 04:09 AM Thanks Malcolm. There's always one slips through! |
Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN JOHN'S ALE WAS NEW From: pavane Date: 28 Aug 02 - 04:32 PM The various titles found in the Bodleian library so far: Six jovial tradesmen or Joan's ale was new Joan's ale is new; or: A new merry medly (2 copies) When John's ale was new (2 copies) Joan's ale was new (several versions) Joan's ale is new The Jovial Crew Possibly closest to the modern text is:
|
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: pavane Date: 28 Aug 02 - 04:39 PM Oops - pressed submit too soon. Just to note that there are THREE different songs in the Bodleian library entitled The Jovial Crew. And yes, Malcolm, a different print clearly shows that neighbours is the word intended in the 1680 text. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: debils Date: 28 Aug 02 - 05:49 PM have you found the song you remember if not could it be the one collected from my ggg granddad by Frederick Bussell for Baring-Gould in july 1893 called "When Joan's Ale was new". If you think it may be this one i will hunt out my copy and happily let you have it Debbie |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: pavane Date: 28 Aug 02 - 06:32 PM Debils I would be interested to see it anyway, as it seems to have retained the original title. General note: One of the texts in the Bodley collection has some different characters, a Pitman and a Keelman, which possibly indicate a Newcastle version. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 28 Aug 02 - 07:16 PM "Watter" is still a common pronounciation throughout Yorkshire (so by no means confined to the North East); earlier it will have been more widespread. "Small beer" was not just for children; everybody drank it (as earlier stated, it was safer than water); but they often complained that it wasn't stronger, so some things have not much changed from that time to this! Baring Gould printed two texts in A Garland of Country Song (1895); one, described as up to date, began There were three jovial fellowsThe other began There were three jovial fellows,Claude M. Simpson (The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 1966) : The ballad Jones ale is newe was licensed in 1594, along with what seems like a moralizing counterpart, the vnthriftes adiew to Jones ale is newe. The original ballad was re-entered in the Stationers' Register in 1656, to Thomas Vere....The 1680 broadside text quoted above appeared in Pills to Purge Melancholy (1719-20; vol.V p.61), with tune, as The Jovial Tinker. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Barbara Date: 29 Aug 02 - 01:37 AM Best of my knowledge, the version most often performed stateside is the one popularized by the Copper Family and included in their songbook. Probably the singer at the Ark, if it was in the 60s or 70s, was Michael Cooney. I heard him sing that one there -- he had a habit of showing up for a several night run at the Ark and refusing to perform any song twice. If you caught him the second set on the last night, he would sing some very arcane songs. Blessings, Barbara |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: pavane Date: 29 Aug 02 - 02:06 PM Does a copy of the 1594 text exist, or just the entry in the register? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: IanC Date: 30 Aug 02 - 03:07 PM Malcolm Best to point out that "Small Beer" was what was commonly used as a breakfast drink ... the water wasn't too reliable (perhaps we should start again). :-) |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: pavane Date: 30 Aug 02 - 05:56 PM Apparently when the yeast gets going, it excludes other micro-organisms, including harmful bacteria. Thats why wine keeps for so long. |
Subject: Lyr Add: PECULIER / PECULIAR ALE / (Kipper Family) From: Mr Happy Date: 30 Aug 02 - 06:01 PM PECULIAR ALE (The Kipper Family)
The first to come in was the sexton,
Now the next to come in was the mason,
The next to come in was the ostler,
And the next to come in was the knacker,
And the last to come in was the nightsoilman,
And then they ordered their bottles of beer |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: pavane Date: 31 Aug 02 - 03:02 AM Is that Peculiar or Peculier? I seem to remember a tale about the traditioanl ale-tester in leather trousers, who sat in a pool of beer. If he stuck to the table, it wasn't fully fermented, as it still had sugar? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 31 Aug 02 - 09:47 AM If he stuck, the beer was ok; if he didn't, it had been watered; at any rate that's how I remember it, though I expect there are variants! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Leadfingers Date: 31 Aug 02 - 11:05 AM My local (very fine) traditional singing friends won't let me do the sixth verse--
The last to come in was a lisper |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Joneses' Ale was New From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Aug 02 - 02:33 PM Then there was the verse with the cunning linguist, composed by a linguist at Michigan State University, which should probably be reserved for mature ears (or is it immature ears?) only: ... Cheerily, Charley Noble |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Mr Happy Date: 04 Oct 02 - 04:21 AM there's an error in one of the 'peculier ale' verses i posted at the end of aug 02. here it is corrected: And the next to come in was the knacker, And no man could be slacker, And no man could be slacker. *There was nothing he wouldn't not do. He flung his old hat upon the shelf. He said, "You must keep all your beasts in good health, For I've no intention of knack'ring myself," When Peculiar Ale was new, me boys, When Peculiar Ale was new. the line i've asterisked should say 'there was nothing he wouldn't NOT do' cheers, mr h |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: GUEST Date: 04 Oct 02 - 03:24 PM Pavanne :- Water rhyming with Hatter may indicate a North-East origin for this version? Why? Down here in the jolly south water DOES rhyme with hatter (pronounced *hawter* of course ;-) And *ace* is what sank the Titanic, don't yer know! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Charley Noble Date: 15 Apr 03 - 05:58 PM Just notice that I screwed up one of my new verses up above which should run: The next came in was a sock troll, Whose dress was exceedingly droll, Whose dress was exceedingly droll, When he joined with the jovial crew; For he was attired in socks he'd snatched, Argyle, stripped, and some was patched, And not a single one did match... Charley Noble |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Mar 04 - 04:06 PM Who did the version that has the chorus: When the landlord's daughter, she came in, And we kissed those rosy cheeks again, We all sat down and then we'd sing; When Jones' Ale was new, me boys, When Jones' Ale was new. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Charley Noble Date: 04 Mar 04 - 04:36 PM Q- You may be thinking of the version Oscar Brand had on his classic recording of drinking songs which has a different structure than what we've been posting above: The landlord's daughter she came in, We kissed her ruby lips with gin, When Johnson's Ale was new, me boys, When Johnson's Ale was new! She said she was good as the best of us, And she drank more ale then the rest of us, When Johnson's Ale was new, me boys, When Johnson's Ale was new! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Rasener Date: 05 Mar 04 - 02:41 AM The first time I heard that song was about 38 years ago. At a folk club in Kingswinford (West Midlands). The Folk Group that ran the club was called the Puritans. They had invited a young blonde curly haired singer as the main artist for the night. It was Martin Wyndham Reid and he sung it. I won the LP of his, in the raffle, and that number was on it. The LP has long gone, but I think i might still have a copy of it on one of my old cassettes. I will have to try and dig it out. |
Subject: When Jones' Ale was new From: the lemonade lady Date: 07 May 04 - 07:45 AM Big Dick was singing this loudly in the rugby club at Upton Festival. He was singing it to a walking/dance step rhythm and it sounded brilliant. He said John Kirkpatrick does it this way. Try it, it's good. Sal I moved this message here from another thread on the same topic. |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Leadfingers Date: 07 May 04 - 01:24 PM The last to come in was a soldier With his firlock over his shoulder And no man could be bolder To join in that jovial crew Then the landlords daughter she came And he kissed her twixt the nose and the chin And the pints of Ale came rolling in When Jones' ale was new my boys |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: pavane Date: 07 May 04 - 04:55 PM Or between the Knees & the chin.... |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Herga Kitty Date: 08 May 04 - 02:41 PM Ms Lemon Interestingly phrased post you made. Presumably refers to tall guy called Dick, sings bass, sang with Mick Ryan in Cantorus? A lot better than many of the singers you'd hear in a rugby club? Kitty |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: the lemonade lady Date: 12 May 04 - 01:09 PM Yes Kitty that sounds like the chap. Very tall and a deep strong voice. Comes from oop north somewhere. Sal |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Schantieman Date: 13 May 04 - 07:21 AM I shall refrain from any coarse comments about name and nature! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: the lemonade lady Date: 14 May 04 - 07:12 AM See you this weekend gorgeous 8-) |
Subject: Lyr Add: WHEN JONES'S ALE WAS NEW From: GUEST Date: 09 Apr 06 - 09:13 PM Q wrote: Who did the version that has the chorus: When the landlord's daughter, she came in, And we kissed those rosy cheeks again, We all sat down and then we'd sing; When Jones' Ale was new, me boys, When Jones' Ale was new. This is the chorus of the version sung by John M. "Sailor Dad" Hunt of Marion, Va., on the The Library of Congress Archive of Folk Culture collection American Sea Songs and Shanties (track 12, originally recorded in 1941). The introduction on the recording says that Sailor Dad was to sing this shortly thereafter for President Roosevelt and top members of the armed forces. Because this version matches your citation more closely (which is to say, exactly except for the possessive formation), and a chorus is more likely to be remembered than a normal verse, Hunt is more likely than Oscar Brand to be your source. The two versions are at best distant relations; in fact, Brand's version differs markedly (suspiciously?) in both form and content from all other versions cited. The text of Hunt's version follows. WHEN JONES'S ALE WAS NEW There was six jovial tradesmen, They all sat down to drinking, For they were jolly good fellows, And enjoyed their drinking, too. They sat themselves down to be merry, For everyone was gay and jolly, "You're welcome as the hills," says Molly, When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new. Chorus: When the landlord's daughter she came in, And we kissed those rosy cheeks again, We all sat down and then we'd sing, [rap rap-rap]* When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new. Now the first to come in was a soldier, With his knapsack over his shoulder, For none could be more bolder, And his long broadsword he drew; He swore every man should spend a pound, And they should treat all hands around, And he jolly well drank their healths all 'round When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new. Now the next to come in was a sailor, With his marlinspike and his sheaver, For none could be more clever Among this jovial crew; He called the landlord into the place, And said it was time to splice the main brace, And if he didn't he'd wreck the place When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new. Now the next to come in was a tinker, And he was a jolly beer-drinker, And he was a jolly beer-drinker Among this jovial crew; He mended pots, he mended kettles, His tinker's tools were made of good metals, Good lord, how his hammer and nails would rattle When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new. The next to come in was a roaming man, Who ground the farmer's wheat at the old mill dam, Who could drink more beer than Joe McCann, Who was one of the jovial crew; He would whistle and sing the whole day long, And always singing a merry old song, And at night he'd join this jovial throng When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new. Now the last to come in was a ragman, With his ragbag over his shoulder, And none could be more bolder Among this jovial crew; They called for pots, they called for glasses, They all got drunk like old jackasses, And they burnt the old ragman's bag to ashes When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new. *For these syncopated raps, imagine sailors banging their flagons in unison on the counter. I should also add that Hunt freely added beats to the beginning and end of phrases, which turns out quite effective for this song, and gives it a more seaman-like (or drunken) swagger. But what about the sixth tradesman? you might be asking. What do you think prompted me to seek out this thread so belatedly? Even though everyone's probably so blotto by the end they're seeing twelve tradesmen, it's these little things that just niggle at us pedants... BTW, what happened to the MIDIs for the DigiTrad versions? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Mr Happy Date: 10 Apr 06 - 06:22 AM 'When Jones's ale was new, my boys, When Jones's ale was new.' don't understand these lines - is it a translation? |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: GUEST,Andy Date: 10 Apr 06 - 10:14 AM |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: GUEST,Andy Date: 10 Apr 06 - 10:23 AM Sorry about the above cock-up, but here's a comic verse that a mate of mine sings And the next to come in was a juggler And he was no poor struggler And he was no poor struggler For to join the jovial crew He'd played in the clubs and in the music halls He'd done encores and curtain calls And the Queen once autographed one of his balls When Jones' ale etc etc Regards Andy |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale was New From: Artful Codger Date: 10 Apr 06 - 02:28 PM More a corruption, Mr Happy. Originally it was "When Joan's[/Jone's] ale was[/is] new". And NOT to be confused with Watkin's ale! Hope that clears it up for ya. Facetiously yours, AC |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale Was New From: Artful Codger Date: 25 May 06 - 10:28 PM Here are a few new verses I wrote to fill out Sailor Dad Hunt's version: The next to come in was a reckoner, he was a flirtatious beckoner; The ladies complied to his beckoning and bedecked our jovial crew. He assessed their gifts, he totted their talents, Upon his knees two maids he would balance While downing his ale with the greatest non-chalance (&c.) A blacksmith joined us at the rail, his brawny arms all tanned and bare, And with his pint of Jones's ale he had no fear or care. His laughter poured free like Jone's tap; He pounded the table and slapped his cap And spilt his beer all over his lap (&c.) The next to come in was a weaver, sporting a fine hat of beaver, And none was a greater deceiver among this disrep'yable crew He wove us tales of feats and of wonders, And when he got rollng his voice would thunder: The glasses would shake and then burst asunder! (&c.) For the record, the "his brawny arms...fear or care" bit of the blacksmith verse mostly came from another trad version. To finish the song, I imported a tribute to the pub staff from the same source, making minor tweaks and adding a fifth line: Now here's to Jones, our landlord, a jovial, hon'rable man is he Likewise his daughter, a buxom lass, who joins in harmony We wish them happiness and good will While our pots and glasses they do fill Here's hoping they never stop brewing this swill (&c.) Be-sottedly, The Artful Codger |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale Was New From: Charley Noble Date: 26 May 06 - 09:15 AM Very gratifying to see all these new verses! I was also pleased to find that Sailor Dad Hunt's recording is now readily available on CD; it's a real treasure. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale Was New From: pavane Date: 26 May 06 - 09:23 AM I hope no-one here in Amsterdam finds out I posted the verse about the Dutchman! |
Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When Jones's Ale Was New From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 27 May 06 - 07:50 AM You'd definitely be in Dutch then, boyo! |
Subject: When When Jones's Ale was New was new From: Phil Edwards Date: 27 May 08 - 06:04 PM When did the "over the hill" line come in, and the "pints of ale and bottles of sherry"? Pavane, upthread, records a C19 version which begins with two tradesmen who called for a bottle of sherry That over it they might be merry but the idea of ordering bottles of sherry, plural, seems like a more recent adaptation/garbling. There don't seem to be any hills in the older versions, either. |
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