Subject: BS: Philosophy and logic From: kindaloupehackenweez Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:16 PM Is reality perception or is perception reality or is individual interpation as long as not to cause pain to others the answer? Be Free, Be Happy, And make sure the world is good to ya all. Kindaloupehackenweez......PEACE....To all mudcatter dudes and dudetts. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:17 PM Yes, yes, yes, OK, OK, I'll try. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Bill D Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:20 PM "Is reality perception or is perception reality.." well, it's the same...only different. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rapparee Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:21 PM Maybe, maybe, pain can mean growth, Ok, Ok, yes, you too. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rapparee Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:25 PM Except, Bill D., where they're not. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Georgiansilver Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:37 PM Logic is the understanding you have......perception is the understanding you have....where do the two meet???? Best wishes, Mike. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: *Laura* Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:39 PM logic is what is logical and perception is what you percieve. Oh, wait.... that's no help at all. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: CarolC Date: 06 Dec 04 - 04:46 PM is individual interpation as long as not to cause pain to others the answer? I vote for this one. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:04 PM "Not to worry..." |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Amos Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:47 PM Perception and logic are from different parts of the jungle. Logic is an innate sense of order and sequence in information. There are various kinds of logic possible. Reality is the average of perception. Things get more solid and less refutable in proportion to the amount of agreement that builds up around them. Perception is an innate capability. The rest is overlay. There -- now I have put my foot in it for another six months or so. Sigh. Enjoy! :>D A |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: beardedbruce Date: 06 Dec 04 - 07:53 PM "Reality is the average of perception. Things get more solid and less refutable in proportion to the amount of agreement that builds up around them." So, until there was agreement otherwise, the sun DID move around the earth? And the Pharohs were gods? and the world was made of air, fire, water, and earth? NOW I understand you, Amos... |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Bill D Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:03 PM dear 'kindaloupe'...if you are bothering to read this *grin*..(we never NEED thread starters to come back..we just go merrily on...)\ just start reading here, and when you have digested this, come on back and we'll talk..*grin* |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:21 PM Perception is not reality. Much of what we perceive is illusion. As we are incapable of knowing exactly how much of what we perceive is real and how much is illusory, the argument can be made that "reality" doesn't really exist at all. The Camptown Races sing this song: "Doo-dah, doo-dah" |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 06 Dec 04 - 08:44 PM Reality exists; you just can't contact it directly. clint |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:07 PM It's "Camptown ladies sing this song", isn't it? So much for "Traditional American Folk Song as Zen Koan". It'll never work if ya don't at least get the lyrics right. I shall now return to being an idjit. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Amos Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:22 PM o, until there was agreement otherwise, the sun DID move around the earth? And the Pharohs were gods? and the world was made of air, fire, water, and earth? NOW I understand you, Amos... BeardedBruce: No, you do not. None of the verbal beliefs you cite were real to anyone, as far as I know. There may have been some few who saw those things, but obviously there was an overwhelming proportion of those who saw things otherwise! It is a simple enough affair to get people to give lip service to almost anything which will forward their self interest. Reality as it is perceived is a different thing altogether. It is wise to remember the false views you mention, and quite a few others, because they might provide some essential humility about your own certainties and the degree to which they are or are not absolutes. A |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: beardedbruce Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:27 PM "obviously " ???? Having read extesively of the Greek philosophers, vary few accepted the theory of atoms, although it was talked about. How do you know that "None of the verbal beliefs you cite were real to anyone, "? I see no evidence, except your desire to support that viewpoint. And I think you also need to be aware of your own false views, "they might provide some essential humility about your own certainties and the degree to which they are or are not absolutes." |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Amos Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:39 PM OK, Bruce. Thanks for the advice. A |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: beardedbruce Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:39 PM you are quite welcome. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:49 PM Atomists. (from the www) ANCIENT ATOMISTS " There is nothing but atoms and space, everything else is only an opinion' - Democritus from Abdera To get the most exact understanding and become acquainted with the development of thoughts in atomistics one should go back in time for over two thousand years and come to know attainments of ancient Greek philosophers. They were the first to research the world of microstructure. The researches were in considerable range ( but not always ) limited to solely logical considerations not supported by any experiments or discerning observations of nature. That caused many contradictions and often divergences between theory and practice. Thales from Miletus ( 620?- 540? B. C. ) Anaximander from Miletus (611- 547 B. C. ) Anaximenes from Miletus (570?- 526 B. C. ) Heraclitus from Ephesus (540?- 480 B. C. ) Xenophanes from Colophon (575?- 480? B. C. ) Parmenides from Eleusis (540?- 470? B. C. ) Empedocles from Acragas ( 490?- 430? B. C. ) Anaxagoras from Clazomenae (500?- 428 B. C. ) Leukippos (probably about the 5-th century B. C. ) Democritus from Abdera (460?- 370? B. C. ) Epicurus (342- 270 B. C. ) Titus Lucretius Carus ( 95?- 55 B. C. ) Aristotle (384- 322 B. C. ) |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rapparee Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:52 PM To the peasant turning over the field for a new crop, the question of whether sun revolved around the Earth or vice versa was irrelevant. What was relevant was rain, sun, warmth -- weather to make the grain grow so that he and his would be fed again. The rights and wrongs of the Wars of the Roses meant little to the guy who was shoved out in front. Whether or not the Czar was the Little Father of Russia was of little importance to the peasant soldier facing the German machine guns. The Tommy who jumped up at Ypres shouting "The bullets are just shadowy reflections of reality!" found out differently when they sliced him in half. Plato dies in 151 grains of cupro-lead; astronomy is studied by those who are fed by others. Socialism, monarchism, democracy, republicanism, theocracy, and the rest fail when famine and plague ride. Logic is a poor crutch, perception is subjective, reality is hard. Nonetheless, it's what we have. Besides, I'm an anarchistic solipsist. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 06 Dec 04 - 09:59 PM "I'm an anarchistic solipsist." Can we still be friends? |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Amos Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:21 PM THat depends on whether you are inclined to agree with him. :) If you are another solipsist, you two could argue all night. A |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 06 Dec 04 - 11:39 PM Calling All Solipsists The International Society of Solipsists is currently accepting applications for new members. All interested persons are invited to apply. Please send a brief Vita and three letters of recommendation from yourself. Purpose To form a sense of community with other solipsists worldwide To interact intellectually with fellow solipsists on a local, national, and international level To convince others to become solipsists Official Anthem: "My Way" Ethics symposium next fall: "The Me Generation" Followed by a reception in the Hall of Mirrors Spring Seminar: "Minimizing Ontological Commitments Solipsists of the world, UNITE! Running Counter of the Number of Solipsists 000001 (from the www; google of solipsists) |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: GUEST,SueB Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:33 AM Logic is a poor crutch, perception is subjective, reality is hard. Nonetheless, it's what we have. ...and some of can't even claim logic. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Amos Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:01 AM Song to Solipsize by: Who Put the Bang in the Bangalangadingdong? Who Wrote the Book of Love? Oooo, Somebody Touch Me (Must be the Hand of the Lord) ...? A |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Crystal Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:30 AM Surely philosophy and logic are to irreconcilable things. Or maybe that just happens when applied to large companies! |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Pied Piper Date: 07 Dec 04 - 09:49 AM Nicely put Rapaire. Brucie I think Rapaire is an epistemological solipsist. PP |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 07 Dec 04 - 10:12 AM My gawd. Does his wife know? |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rapparee Date: 07 Dec 04 - 10:26 AM She knows all of my strengths and none of my faults, as I have none of the latter. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 07 Dec 04 - 10:28 AM But does she know you piss all over logic slopily? |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Bill D Date: 07 Dec 04 - 10:46 AM Solipism is the ultimate ego trip. Solipism is not for everyone. If solipisism is true, Shambles has only himself to blame. "Solipsistic masochism"...biting the hand that feeds you. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 07 Dec 04 - 12:43 PM Rapaire, That post didn't come out the way I wanted. Bruce M |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Dave the Gnome Date: 07 Dec 04 - 01:13 PM Perception is a light drizzle. A cut down form of precipitation. Reality is an illusion brought on by the absence of alcohol. Philosophy is what you get for trying to spell in Greek. Logic probably has something to do with lumps of firewood. See? Simple isn't it. :D |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:41 PM Surely philosophy and logic are to irreconcilable things. (Assuming that by "to" you mean "two"): Wrong! Logic is a branch of philosophy. So is mathematics. Indeed, mathematics may be thought of as numeric logic. Both are systems in philosophy which attempt to organize or objectify thought. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 07 Dec 04 - 02:44 PM Gee! Didn't mean to rain on the parade by injecting serious stuff. Sorry. Dave Oesterreich |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Crystal Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:35 PM It could well be "two" Dave! However given that my own internal brand of logic dosn't fit mathmatics (I'm dyslexic/ dyspraxic) maybe "to" is correct after all. I am now very confused and well go away and have a drink or three until the universe resets itself ;-) |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rapparee Date: 07 Dec 04 - 03:51 PM Actually, logic (and mathematics) is a language in the purest sense of the term. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:23 PM I been workin' on the railroad all the livelong day! |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:26 PM Just to pass the time away I suppose! |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: kindaloupehackenweez Date: 07 Dec 04 - 04:39 PM To all dude and dudette cats: Thanks for the brain food and the kicks far out solid and right on now im in a paradox of more enigma then i was before. BE free and happy and lets keep feeding each other..REALLY...THANKYOU'S VERY MUCH |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: freda underhill Date: 07 Dec 04 - 05:33 PM try this one for size.. psychology of intelligence analysis, perception and objectivity.. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rustic Rebel Date: 08 Dec 04 - 04:37 AM Kindaloupehackenweez your in parodox of a need for an enema? I hear a coffee enema is stimulating not only to the colon but to the brain. Kona beans are supposed to be stimulating also if used properly. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rapparee Date: 08 Dec 04 - 09:31 AM I've heard of coffee enemas before and I am always prompted to ask, "Cream? One lump or two?" |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Pied Piper Date: 08 Dec 04 - 11:58 AM To clarify my comments about Repaire, an epistemological solipsist (as apposed to an ontological solipsist) believes that other people exist, just that we cannot experience the Qualia of another. It's a bit like being in a tent and having to discover what "reality"(Danger Will Smith Danger !!!),is by feeling through the skin of the tent; we are all alone behind our personal solipsistic membrane. PP |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Georgiansilver Date: 08 Dec 04 - 12:09 PM Surely mathematics is LOG-arithm-IC....Ahh well!!! Best wishes. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Peace Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:16 PM "is by feeling through the skin of the tent; we are all alone behind our personal solipsistic membrane." Sounds like "The Allegory of the Cave." |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: gnu2 Date: 08 Dec 04 - 01:30 PM Don't know if I have the first two mixed up ( or even corectly attributed, but you get the idea )... To do is to be. Satre To be is to do. DesCarte Scooby doobee doo. Sinatra. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: Rapparee Date: 08 Dec 04 - 02:28 PM Yes, yes, Pied Piper, I made you say that. |
Subject: RE: BS: Philosophy and logic From: kindaloupehackenweez Date: 08 Dec 04 - 04:05 PM Hay Freda Your too much give me some time for that one. I'll come up with something. Hay Rustic Rebel: Your the master. What else can i say. I know better than to mess with the Rebel. Thanks ya all. kindloupehackenweez...PEACE. |