Playing by ear- advantage or disadvantage?

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:53 AM

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Malcolm Douglas - PM
Date: 15 Jun 00 - 11:08 PM

As has been said several times earlier in this thread (so that I don't see why it was felt necessary to revive it), one should ideally aim to be able to do both. Being able to play only from written notation is like being unable to speak without a text to read from; being able only to play by ear is as limiting as having to learn by heart, from somebody else's recitation, the contents of each new daily paper. I'm an ear-player, and quite good at it, but I wish I'd been taught properly when I was in a position to learn, relatively painlessly, how to be musically "literate". It would save a lot of time.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:55 AM

I'm [also]an ear-player, and quite good at it, but I wish I'd been taught properly when I was in a position to learn, relatively painlessly, how to be musically "literate". It would save a lot of time.


Let down by UK educ, system!

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: GUEST, Mikefule
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:04 PM

Watch these things:

A folk concert, a traditional jazz concert, a modern jazz concert, a country concert, a rock concert, a blues concert, a classical concert.

How would you regard the show if the professional musicians were playing from the dots? Do we see Keith Richards with a music stand and a score?

The odd one out on the list is the classical concert. Here, we have large numbers of musicians playing fragments of music which fit together to make a whole. There are long rests, and very precise phrases. You can't have half a dozen violins all playing something "broadly similar" in an orchester.

The other genres have individual musicians, sometimes working as teams, sometimes completely solo. As long as it sounds good, it doesn't matter whether they play each phrase exactly "as written". It might not even be possible to write some phrases accurately without resorting to extremes of dots, ties and slurs.

So for folk musicians (and jazz, rock, blues, country, etc.)the ability to read and write music is more or less irrelevant to performance. It then becomes simply a useful way of remembering or transmitting tunes when there isn't time to memorise them or play them repeatedly.

I've always played by ear, but I have enough reading/writing ability to work out or write down the basic shape of a melody. It helps, but it isn't vital.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

Mikefule

I remember being in Barcelona for a few days, some years ago. On the first night, we found a jazz club where a visiting Cuban piano player was playing, for the first time, with a local bass player and drummer. The bass blayer had the "heads" on a musicstand in front of him (sailors - keep off!) and kept a close eye on them throughout, while still managing to vary his playing and take occasional solos. Two nights later, we called in again before heading home. The set list was largely the same, the stand was gone and the boys were swinging hard! It's horses for courses.

Regards

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:38 PM

For mere motals, being able to read music is a valuable skill which can lead to a deeper understanding of the mechanics of music i.e. how it works. If you have the innate musical skills of a Django then the inability to read music wouldn't hinder your progress; however, Django once wrote a serious piece of "classical music", but because it wasn't written down ( Django didn't possess that skill) it has been "lost". I think a "complete" musician should be able to read music And be able to play by ear.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 02:58 PM

I don't think that musical literacy ever actually hurt anybody. If you have the innnate musicality to be able to play by ear, or to sing (and sing harmonies) without reading, learning some formal theory can only help.

I was exposed to a good bit of basic music theory and reading/writing in Catholic elementary school, and briefly took piano lessons. Before I started the lessons, I could pick out melodies on the piano, by ear with one finger ~ but never did learn how to really play the piano, never learned to coordinate both hands.

Years later, as a teenager, I took up folk guitar, learned the basic chords from books and, of course, combined this "book-knowledge" with my own listening experience and interpreation to start singing and playing songs. As I progressed, I learned to follow tablature. I couldn't, and still can't, learn a song from tab without also hearing it, but on the other hand, I could never have learned my current set of fingerpicking skills purely from listening, without the additional knowledge I could acquire from Stephan Grossman, Happy Traub, et al., via tablature.

I a little surprissed that the subject of "tab" hasn't come up here yet. Just as some folks take pride in not knowing standard musical notation, there are those who dismiss tablature, which is similar to "dots" much much less abstract insofar as it relates directly to your instrument.

Harking back to my grade-school music classes, I can slowly dope out a melody from standard musical notation, but not nearly so easily as from well-written tablature. Needless to say, I can't sight-read at all.

Music theory, especially basic harmonic knowledge ~ chord progressions and the like ~ is absolutely essential, but many players learn such "theory" instinctively, without necessaily knowing the stadard terminology for notes, intervals, etc. However, learning a bit of the standard vocabulary, etc., can only help make things clearer in one's mind.

We've all encountered singers and players who can read and follow notation but who somehow fail to convey the "soul," even the musicality, of what they're trying to present. I don't think it's fair to blame formal musical knowledge for such people's shortcomings; they're just doing the best they can, even though their best might not be enough for many listeners. Without their formal music education, they wouldn't be making any sound at all ~ and a person with real feeling for music would be able to take that same training and make more out of it.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:00 PM

How interesting to have this old thread pop up again and re-read what I (and others) said almost 9 years ago.

I still agree with what I said in 1998 that both are advantageous, both provide more resources to get more out of and into the music. I play several instruments by ear now (none well) and have also been known to sight-read a bit on the piano. I think of the music notation --especially classical-- as a way of understanding and interpreting the composer's creation, whereas playing by ear is more subjective, limited only by one's own abilities and perhaps taste.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Scoville
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 04:58 PM

Okay, seriously: My great-grandfather couldn't read or write music so he would pick out tunes on the piano and then play them for a friend, who would write them down.

Here one here (AK Salmon's march).

Not bad for a dude who could only play by ear.

* * * * *

I can read music, sort of. I was never that great and am badly out of practice, but there are good points to both. Whoever pointed out that you can't have an orchestra playing something "broadly similiar" was right. Likewise, there are times when being dot-bound really spoils the music. Neither is "better" because they serve different purposes.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 07:46 PM

Shambles, wish they had said that about Bill Clinton......

Catters,

You can look at reading music this way. You can see musical ideas. Kinda' like learning to read in a language. If you know harmonic theory, you can take a tune apart and understand it better.

But to rely on that for a musician is like a bird trying to fly with one wing.

There are times when reading is appropriate and sometimes a hindrance.

For instance, in a jazz jam session, reading doesn't work. It's like being in a play where the actor doesn't know his/her lines.

OTOH you can pick up a tune faster if you know how to read. You might not be able to play it better though. For that, you gotta' do lots of listening.

I think each function uses a different part of the brain.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 08:15 PM

Louis Armstrong read Music , but not enough to hurt his playing !!
It makes learning new stuff a LOT easier !

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:33 PM

As "musicians" it has been my experience that "ear-players" are even worse musical whores than "vocalists."

The "EAR PLAYER" expects EVERYONE else in the performance to be so well versed that all others will adapt to to their LIMITED KEY.

Read
Transpose
Ear
Vamp
Twelve keys BY EAR!!!!

A "true musician" can conform to the needs of any vocalist. Vocal - is the only gift granted by GOD.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: GUEST,,gargoyle
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:35 PM

BOTTOM LINE

Ear-Players are cursed - because they believe they were "gifted" but are only too lazy to practice.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 10:39 PM

Mr. Happy - your are cursed honey-pot-of-human-dung....why stir old sh&T

Reading the dates - Joe Clones

PLEASE deleate my postings to this thread

Sincerely

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: iancarterb
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:14 PM

It can't hurt to be able to get a tune from a page. It's SIGHT reading that is really hard to oblige yourself to do after ear-play for a lifetime. As long as you can still see and can buy a 30 to 50 dollar computer program, you can plug the notes from the page into the computer and then play it endlessly, play and sing with it and learn it by ear. Who knows, after a while it may enable sight reading! Join a Shape Note Group- that helps too, and is a ton of fun, and only costs the price of the book.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 05 Apr 07 - 11:40 PM

I wasn't in the pond when this thread started, so I've enjoyed reading it. I can't believe I read the whole thing! I have never felt a great need to be able to "read" music, but one of the things that I'm glad that I did learn is how chords are made up... major, minor, 7th, diminished, etc. I've found that little bit of knowledge to be of enormous help in working out harmonies in my gospel group. When I hear someone singing a sour note, I can play the chord and show them the notes it's made up of. If their note isn't in there, I ask them to pick one that is. Or, I'll play the chord with the note that they're singing added and they realize that it doesn't work. I would never apply the term "harmonic theory" to my knowledge, because it is very basic and I have no desire to learn more "modern" chords.

Now, if the thread was titled: understanding chords - advantage or disadvantage, the answer would be very simple... Unless you sing unaccompanied and never do a song with a chorus.. :-)

Jerry

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 12:03 AM

One of my friends (yeah I got a handful) left a multiple week visit in my abode....two weeks ago.

He is an acomplished 35 years guitar player - when I tried to explain I,IV,V so we mingle a tingle of music.....He said, he never understood it. When asked, "what key are you starting in?" He had no clue....and knowing the piece, when asked, " where will the bridge go..high/low?" his did not have clue.

He is good, he KNOWS his music... but much like accompanying a vertuoso singer, you follow there lead.

He does not know what the h*&l he is doing...but what ever he is doing it is Grand!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: GUEST,Chuck the Monk
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 04:26 AM

My mother bought me a toy-clarinet. I played on it for some days and then it suddenly somehow disappeared.

So in the age of about 30 I built a simple string instrument and then started to pick melodies on it. Then I started to play Guitar. I even took lessons from a Russian Guitarmaster.

I *had* to learn to use the "dots", whereas my mother who had been playing Piano in the childhood played my Guitar by ear.

So I started to pick melodies on the Guitar. I found it quit interesting to look at a totally unknown piece and try to see what I could make of it.

The playing by ear and mostly playing by rote did not work out but still it is for me at least fascinating to try out a new piece from Russia or Macedonia or whatever and try to make something out of it.

Later I quite often succeeded in finding a recorded version of some of the pieces I had played "Blind". Sometimes I find that what I have decuced was essentially what the recorded artist played. Sometimes the recording went quite contrarywise to the way I used to play.

Some of the pieces were of course such as are sung/played everywere and they do not pose any problem. You know from the beginning how the piece sounds and you try to play like it.

At the age of 69 I started to play a Bayan (Russian Accordion) and then I started to regret that I can not play by ear.

But slowly, slowly something like playing by ear is emerging but in this age it is very slow and difficult. I try to learn by improvising and it sounds fine now and then but still the playing by ear is far off.

I am personally sorry that my mother did not think I was able to learn to play an instrument (My voice is no good) but one has to make do with what one has.

My cousin plays the Accordion by ear and regrets that he can not play by the dots like me.

Different people have different backgrounds and different innate abilities. Let everyone make his/her music as best as he/she can and before all enjoy it.

The answer to the question is in my opinion that playing by ear is a good thing as is also playing by the dots.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Scoville
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 09:30 AM

I'm going to kick myself for responding to GUEST, gargoyle: Your friend is an ignoramus and self-centered. I play almost entirely by ear now but I know what transposing is, I can find you a starting note if I don't know what it is offhand (which I usually do, since they're generally pretty predictable based on the key of the song), and I can handle my I, IV, and V7 chords just fine.

However, I took six years of piano lessons and only learned I, IV, and V7 by rote, without ever being taught why they were called that or what it meant in the grand scheme of chords. I finally learned that in about five minutes in an informal guitar workshop. Also, my play-by-ear string-band friends forced me to learn to transpose because I learned most of my tunes on dulcimer in D, and when I started playing with fiddles I had to start playing them in their correct keys. So, being able to read music doesn't mean you'll be able to do any of the above.

And learning to read at least basic music is not difficult. If you feel you're missing out, ask somebody for help.

Subject: RE: Playing by ear-advantageor disadvantage?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 11:42 AM

I'm interested in musical education. I compare it to education generally. Here's my analogy.

Some educated people are not using their intelligence. Some uneducated people are extremely good at applying their intelligence.

Musical intelligence varies from one person to the next. Some are literate in music and may not apply their musical intelligence to their performance. Some are illiterate in music and have much musical intelligence in their performance.

Others can combine both. The obvious answer to the question for me is that there are both advantages to ear and note reading.

In folk music, musical literacy is not important because it is not the central aspect of the music for which you listen.

In classical music, jazz, art songs, some pop, show tunes, musical literacy may make a difference in performance.

There are different degrees of musical literacy. Harmonic theory is one. The ability to sight-read is another. Composition and arranging is another.

It's all relative to the job being done. Simple arranging in folk music doesn't require an extensive literacy in music.

In jazz, harmonic theory is usually essential. There are some musicians, however, such as Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong who "hear the changes" without extensive reading or theoretical skills. Ella didn't play the keyboard.

In classical music or art songs, you really have to know what the composer intended through the notes that he/she wrote. In musical composition and arranging, well that seems obvious but there are such composers who can arrange and compose on MIDI equipment who may not be able to read much music.

In Broadway or show music, a knowledge of music reading helps because the singers and performers need to learn new material quickly.

In pop music, it's up for grabs. Some are highly literate such as the Bachrachs or George Martins and some are intuitive entirely.

Answer, find out what you need to know. If you need to be musically literate, go for it.
Otherwise, forget it.

Frank Hamilton