BS: British criminality seems to be getting

Subject: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 05:20 PM

A network of criminality in one of the UK's largest illegal immigrant communities has been exposed by an undercover BBC News investigation today.

It would appear at this point to be the largest ever organised criminal gang manufacturing fake documents of every conceivable kind.

More than 40 houses packed with illegal immigrants were identified in one square mile of Southall, west London, all with fake documents.

This ring is organised by Indians who are not here lawfully.
Interesting what the government will make of this.
They get people into the country on lorries, known as donkeys, organised in France.They can provide a fake "original" passport that had been "checked" to beat security at a UK airport.

This network of Indian criminals can make and supply fake documents for any purpose a buyer may require, and some will pay good money for original passports, for bank accounts, a Home Office registration card or for stolen identities on driving licences, then they manufacture copies.

Credit to the BBC for undertaking this undercover investigation. Let's hope the authorities act upon the information and return the illegals to their rightful counties.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 06:20 PM

It is discouraging to think that one of one's very own countrymen (pardon me gals) didn't think of it first.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 06:56 PM

Roll on the spitfire ...


... and cut.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: MarkS
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:29 AM

Don't they just do the jobs that Englishmen don't want to do?
Hey - thats the excuse here!

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 01:43 AM

Build your own Spitfire ...

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 02:59 AM

They name then self forgee, believing the U.K will be paradise paying over £20,000 to get here the soon find out all is not what it seems but at this point there is no going back they must work to pay off the cost of getting here. Forgee's are Sikh's and Hindu's from Punjab, India when they come over here its pure work for them, given the chance they would even pay tax on the below minimum wage but our government does not like these sort of people (workers) they would rather have some one come over in a burka with 10 kids sit on their behinds and claim every state benefit available to them.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 03:18 AM

Another GUEST troll - elf please delete idiot thread.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 04:19 AM

"A network of criminality in one of the UK's largest illegal immigrant communities..." are the opening words of a post from a guest on a BS thread. Now why does the word "racist" immediately spring to mind. Joe, can you get the broom out please?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 04:57 AM

I believe alanabit that wording is taken directly from BBC News web-site. Would you like that shut down too? Are you interested at all in discovering the truth of the matter? Or are you more concerned about the PC aspects of it?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:09 AM

Oh while we are on the subject of British criminality alanabit, have you read todays papers regarding knife crime under the current ZA NU-Labour Government? You remember that Labour Government don't you alanabit - What was it again? - Oh Yes - "Tough on crime".

According to the figures folks there have been on average 60 incidents involving knife crime (Muggings, assault, injury) every day in 2007, plus an average of five killed per week. Don't quite know how to tell you this alanabit, it would appear that our soldiers are safer out in Afghanistan than they are walking the streets of some UK cities - "Tough on crime" indeed, what was their proposed remedy to combat this? Take the attackers to meet their victims in hospital? - You have got to be joking!!!

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,NPC
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:10 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7505574.stm

Look, if it happened, it happened. Are you saying we shouldnt be allowed to talk about it? Shouldn't ever criticise any non white? Even though they are doing this stuff? read the news for gods sake. If it was the BNP you wouldn't moan about trolls

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:21 AM

what does the colour of skin have to do with any of this. Why are any immigration related issues immediately hijacked by racists?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Teribus
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:28 AM

Ah, Guest Joe, the BBC are now racists are they?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:32 AM

'A BBC investigation has exposed a criminal network in London that exploits hundreds of illegal immigrants from India through cheap housing, faked documents and poorly paid, often dangerous work....

One undercover reporter was put to work by his contacts on a building site without any interview, or showing any documents.

He was assigned to work on the roof of a building without any safety training or equipment, such as a hard hat.

The team also discovered more than 40 houses, each packed with around eight or nine illegal migrant labourers from Punjab, in India, in London's Asian-dominated Southall district.'

- AFP

The reporters highlight the exploitation of hundreds of mainly young, male Punjabi farmers living illegally in Southall, west London who are caught in a trap of false promises, the risk of deportation if discovered, and having to pay back the cost of transportation forged documents etc out of about £2* per hour.
* the National Minimum Wage for an adult is £5.52 an hour

Life as an illegal immigrant BBC News with video links

The criminals who exploit these hopeful economic migrants are no better than those trafficking in women lured with the promise of employment and forced into prostitution and I hope they are sucessfully prosecuted.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: alanabit
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:33 AM

I have not yet read today's stories about knife crime. One stabbing is one too many. I am aware of this debate. I am also aware of the way that crime statistics have been going for years under the regimes of both major political parties in the UK. Crime in general has been falling and certain crimes of violence have risen. Politicians of both parties like to posture that they are "tough on crime". Unfortunately the long term results of some of these policies have not always been fruitful. Scaring the Hell out of certain sections of the community does not always provide spectacular results when the police have to find witnesses. Remember the SPG? If you want to play political football with that one - good luck. I have better things to do.
With regard to the opening post, context is everything. I am staying off this thread now, because I believe it does Mudcat no credit.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,NPC
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:34 AM

Why are immigration issues immediately hijacked by the self rightous PC brigade? If you talk about anything related to immigration is a negative way you're a racist. But stuff happens and not all of it is nice, not every immigrant is a poor downtrodden good guy. What are you calling for, censorship of the news just because it doesnt agree with your opinions?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:49 AM

Teribus, I wasnt calling the BBC racist, I was referring to comments such as 'shouldnt criticise the non-white' ...

There are two sides as misled as each other. The 'PC brigade', who dont want to offend anyone, who scream 'racist' at any mention of immigration, and on the other side there are those who believe that everyone who raises the subject of someone being racist is somehow part of this PC brigade.

What happened to informed debate? This isnt a black and white issue.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:52 AM

It's all to do with intent. If the news report is intended to show the plight of the immigrant is is far from racist. If the thread was created with the intent of causing ill feeling against the majority of Indian immigrants by likening them to a minority criminal element then it is racist. How trustworthy is the BBC? How trustworthy is Guest, Al? Make up your own mind but I, for one, would be happy to see this thread go the way of the Polish immigrant one.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: ard mhacha
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 05:57 AM

Teribus are you suggesting that the streets of the UK are dangerous, my o my, can you be serious?.
When I forecast on this Site last year that many of the streets of the UK would be no-go areas for the people, I was accused by you of writing nonsense , do you still believe the streets are safe?.
The recent spate of stabbings would suggest that what I wrote then has come to pass, unless you want to argue with all of the Chief Constables in the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: bubblyrat
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:12 AM

I don't get this "racist" thing----what is it ?? All I know is that I am an Englishman who can trace his family history back to about 1560 ( still working on it !)in Surrey,Sussex, Norfolk and Gloucestershire, was brought up in the heart of the Sussex countryside, and did not set eyes on ANY coloured person, or indeed any kind of foreigner at all, until I was ten years old !! Consequently, I am not only disturbed,but quite upset at the ever-increasing number of foreigners / aliens who have been allowed , by successive British governments, to come and live in MY country without any prior consultation with myself or my fellow countrymen . It wouldn't be so bad if they were like us, but they are NOT !! --They do not share the same history, religion,language (in many cases)or sense of cultural identity as the rest of us "natives". Many of them continue to wear strange clothes,worship strange Gods, and speak in unfamiliar tongues, whilst espousing such alien concepts as polygamy,honour killings,Sharia law and yes, people-trafficking as per this thread.So please forgive me if I appear to be somewhat uncharitable, but I really do wish that "they"would all go back to where they came from, and let me /us have my/our country back , which,of course is simple anthropology, not racism !
             Finally, ---I am truly sorry if anyone finds my attitude,comments or opinions disturbing or offensive, but I know for a fact that there are many others who feel the same way that I do, and it is high time that we were allowed to say how WE feel !! The whole argument about "Racism" is far too one-sided and politically Left Wing for my liking , so let's have a bit of respect for the native English, for once.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM

Yeah, but it's all those immigrants with their different ways, clothes, languages, gods etc that have made Britain the way you seem to think it has always been.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:48 AM

"They do not share the same history, religion,language (in many cases)or sense of cultural identity as the rest of us "natives"."


Oh yeah? What are those things exactly? Care to be more specific so we can all see if we measure up to your perceived ideas of 'Britishness' or whatever.


"but I really do wish that "they"would all go back to where they came from, and let me /us have my/our country back , which,of course is simple anthropology, not racism ! "

Sounds like simple racism.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:49 AM

The total area of England is 130,395 square kilometres or 50,346 square miles. India is 2,973,190 square kilometres or 1,147,949 square miles. England is now more over-populated than India by at least 20%.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:49 AM

I was hoping to let this thread sink but I am afraid that the comment from bubblyrat has hit a nerve.

So please forgive me if I appear to be somewhat uncharitable, but I really do wish that "they"would all go back to where they came from, and let me /us have my/our country back , which,of course is simple anthropology, not racism !

What right do you have to say that my Father, who fought for this country in WW2 and was injured at Monte Casino, should go back to Poland where he came from? Why would you send an 85 year old man back to a country he left more than sixty years ago to escape the twin evils of facism and communism? How could you look me in the eye and say that a man who has put more into this country than you ever will has to leave his children, grandchildren and great grandchildren to spend the few remaining years he has left with complete strangers?

Your comment is not just hurtful and ignorant but epitomises all the stupid, blinkered philosophy of racism in one easy lesson! It is not often I would stoop to bad language but this is such an occasion. Fuck off back to the white supremacist days of 1560 where you belong.

And close the door on your way out.

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:55 AM

"What right do you have to say that my Father, who fought for this country in WW2 and was ..."

He said no such thing so stop being such an asshole.

---

pdq needs to learn to speak with a civil tongue.

-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:57 AM

He said " but I really do wish that "they"would all go back to where they came from"

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:01 PM

. . . implying all foreigners . . .

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:02 PM

Woould you like to explain who 'they' are then pdq? You know very well that bubblyrat is refering to everyone that is not English. Eg Anatoli Polakow - Born in Bialystok in June 1923 and therefore one of 'them'. Just who is being the 'asshole' I wonder?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:08 PM

If people cannot discuss immigration without resorting to screaming racist at people who disagree with them, they should stay out of such discussions. My opinion only.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:13 PM

I had a job as a donkey once - in the school nativity play. I was initially cast as Herod, but I couldn't remember the lines.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:17 PM

Don't change the subject, pdq. Bubblyrat made a distinctly racist statement that 'they' should all go back where they came from. You appear to support him or her. I ask once again. Who are 'they'?

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:18 PM

All I know is that I am an Englishwoman whose ancestors fled from famine and oppression in Ireland, and tyranny and persecution in the progroms.

I have visited other countries and usually am glad to return home as I love this country of my, my parents and grandparents birth until I read something like the comment from bubblyrat

btw bubblyrat, what particular race of invaders/ immigrants to Britain do you belong to?

Romans, Saxons, Vikings Normans?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:19 PM

...and the question applies equaly to bubblyrat.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: pdq
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:28 PM

bubblyrat said:

"I am not only disturbed,but quite upset at the ever-increasing number of foreigners / aliens who have been allowed...to come and live in MY country without any prior consultation with myself or my fellow countrymen."

"...so let's have a bit of respect for the native English, for once."

It seems sometimes that the English are the only people on planet Earth who must not be allowed self-determination.

BTW, if someone does not like or understand what a member says, try the PM route first, maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Stu
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM

""...so let's have a bit of respect for the native English, for once."

So who are these English? What is their racial makeup? You must have a definition or your argument is worthless.

I look forward to hearing it.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Paul Burke
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:33 PM

Send them ALL back home! All over the world. Australians and Americans back to Germany, Sweden, Italy, Russia, England, Ireland etc. English back to Germany! Irish back to Spain so some say.

I've got a bit of a dilemma, 6 great-grandparents born in Ireland, and two in Lancashire- but one of my grandparents was born in Hyderabad. I've got to go home to quite a few places.

Sod racism, and sod any of you who are racists.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Zen
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 12:40 PM

I commented on his colourful terms for various foreigners in a thread some time back and was told I was "sad" so will not comment further here.

Defiantly anti-racist and sad,

Zen

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 01:22 PM

I have already PMd someone on this thread and it is none of your business who. That is why it is Private or Personal Mail. However, a public comment like 'send them all back' deserves public condemnation.

Now, stop trying to wriggle out of it and tell us who 'they' are.

D.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 01:29 PM

'And you wonder why so many of us are racists !!! God help us.'
- posted O4/07 by bubblyrat

Now just who would the 'us' be as well I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Gulliver
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 02:01 PM

Well said, Paul Burke. By far the largest group of immigrants here in the Republic of Ireland is from the UK, far more than Poles, Eastern Europeans, etc. Does Bubblyrat suggest that they should be sent back to where they came from as well? Racist nonsense, that's all it is.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:07 PM

Glad to see so many constructive comments above, and the expected rubbish from the (If you mention race,creed or religion I will run to Joe Brigade).

The BBC did an extended news bulletin on this story last night, have any of you whiners contacted the BBC today because they dared to highlight non-white crime ? For heavens sake will some of you open your eyes and ears before you engage your mouth.

The thread highlighted one of the largest organised crime syndicates ever uncovered in Britain. This group could supply anything from a library card to a passport or a bank statement to a visa.

There are about a dozen members on this site that simply want to talk about themselves or bore the ass of us about something they feel accomplished in. (You all who I mean).

As soon as someone mentions Eastern Europeans of Africans in Britain they put a lip on.

Grow up and don't throw your rattly out of your pram so bloody often.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:22 PM

GUEST,Al - you seem to have just the two posts, both in this thread as far as I can see (unless of course - heaven's forfend - you are a member posing as a disingenuous 'guest' - surely not!
Strangely enough however you seem to have preconcieved views about members!

I think I said that criminals, of whatever race or creed, should be prosecuted; especially those that prey like vultures on the hopes for a better life of their fellow men or women and subject them to the kind of existence the BBC highlighted.

However I am sick and fed up of anonymous 'first time' 'guests using this forum to propogate doctrines of xenophobia and racism - there you go - I'm talking about myself! - happy now?

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:57 PM

Dear Emma.

I actually thought your posts were good. Could you explain how you have come to the conclusion that I came to the site to promote xenophobic or racial views ?

Sorry my dear if you view me as a racist, you really couldn't be more wrong. What I do dislike is being unable to speak freely about a subject without someone attempting to be a politicly correct parrot.

Would it be at all possible to direct me to a link where I can find information prohibiting "first time posters" on the site or a statement in relation to it from one of the moderators.


Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 10:08 PM

Everyone should get sent back to Africa since we all came from Mitochondrial Eve.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:16 PM

FAQ

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 12:47 AM

Ard the streets of anywhere can be dangerous, that doesn't necessarily make them no-go areas.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 03:29 AM

Nothing wrong with the BBCs documentary, Al. It was a damning report on anyone who traffics in human misery. Nothing wrong with you pointing out that it was on. Provided of course that you did not do so just to gloat in the fact that these criminals happened to be Indian. We do not know you. We don't know your motive in raising the issue. Why don't you let us know more about yourself?

Where do you stand, for instance, on bubblyrats contention that 'they' should all be sent back to where they came from? What would you do with people trafficers? Would you treat them all equaly or would you send the Indian ones 'back home' and give the English ones a jail sentence? What would you do with Indians who are here legaly if the commited crimes? What would you do with the crowd of second and third generation Bangladeshi kids who beat up white lad? What would you do with a crowd of Englsih lads that knifed a Bosnian immigrant?

There is nothing wrong at all with drawing peoples attention to crime. Trying to incite people into hatred of another race because of the crimes of a few is wrong though. Not saying that is what you were doing, just suggesting it may look like that.

Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 03:33 AM

BTW - Still no comment from the rat about who 'they' are I see. How about you pdq? You seemed happy to call me an 'asshole' when I questioned the bubbly one, so I guess you know what he or she meant. How about you explaining to me who 'they' are?

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 04:09 AM

There are a lot of particularly older people who feel the same way that Bubblyrat has expressed him or herself.

The cities of England have always been a bit of a racial hotchpotch, but if you have lived in a rural place then its quite possible that multiracial Britain seems quite recent and even threatening. In the village where I live the Asian parents escort their children home. The newsagents five year old kid was attacked by yob schoolchildren. Its a tough ex mining community - not known for its broad minded liberalism.

There is no way that England could or would want to go back to the kind of society we had just after WW2. a population of 30 million and everyone poor as church mice. The immigrants and the larger population are part of the reason we are all better off finacially.

Incidentally the last time i was in Ireland, I was renting a bungalow owned by a black lady from Manchester - she was married to an Irish bloke. She was getting out as she found the whole country totally racist. Her grown up children lived in Dublin and lived in constant fear of racist attacks - she described an atmosphere of fear much worse than anything Ive heard people talk about over here.

I think that element that looks on the past as white and secure and more desirable are in both our countries. I also think perhaps you need to make some allowances before coming out with the racist taunt - its also something to do with getting old and seeing the past (of which you feel there is more of than the future) as a better place - a place when you had all life's possibilities before you!

Subject: RE: BS: British criminality seems to be getting
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 04:19 AM

What annoys me is the labelling of anyone who questions or faces up to racism as being a wet liberal left winger. Its an excuse used by a number of people to not engage in sensible debate, maybe because people such as bubblyrat might realise that the views they hold are actually racist.