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BS: The writer's life
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Subject: The writer's life From: GUEST,(MEJ) Date: 26 Mar 02 - 03:53 PM Katlaughing's comment on another thread about the problems of managing a writer's life made me think of the following books on writing:
A couple of recent books: The Forest for the Trees by Betsey Learner By an editor - wonderfully good humored, and a lot of inside information on publishing. The Writer's Survival Guide by Rachel Simon From a fiction writer and writing teacher. A lot of basic stuff, would be very good for someone starting out. Which other 'catters are also writers? (I'm a tech writer myself.) What books and resources do you find helpful? Mary in Boston underlines fixed by mudelf ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Irish sergeant Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:21 PM Mary; I write mostly historical articles but I am currently working on a novel about Jack the Ripper and just finished a short story about the Civil War. The books I find useful? Writer's market guide., The New Dictionary of American Slang and various writig guides dealing with plotting and such. I tend to do alright in the area but I do like checking my facts and style before I final draft. Of course most of my writing has a historical bent so there is a lot of history books that are absolutely in dispensable. Hope it helps and belive me, It's a hard way to make a living at times but I would not change a thing. Kindest regards, Neil |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Sonnet Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:49 PM I write poetry. Having written most of my life, I recently graduated from the University of Huddersfield with MA in Poetry. Peter Sansom's 'Writing Poems' is an excellent book. Unless you read, you can't hope to write, and by that I don't mean just handbooks. Read around your own genre and beyond. Whoever I'm reading at the time tends to be my favourite poet, but those I go back to are Peter Sansom, Stanley Cook, Ian McMillan, Carol Ann Duffy, Raymond Carver, Maya Angelou, Keith Douglas, Dorothy Nimmo and Eavan Boland. Janet |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Barbara Shaw Date: 26 Mar 02 - 04:55 PM I retired last year from my corporate job in information technology, and now I'm a rookie freelance writer. In fact I just had my first article published in the magazine "Bluegrass Unlimited." I'm also working on a book (actually, several). I think the most important things would be to know what you're talking about, write about what you know, and know the market you're trying to write for. We've been subscribers to "Bluegrass Unlimited" for years, so I felt I knew what the magazine's readers would like, being one of them, and the editors apparently felt the same. The book is another whole story. I've been saving notes and documents for the book for many years, so my resource here is piles of notes. I'll be watching this thread for future information, if/when it ever gets to the point where I'm looking for an agent or publisher. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: CarolC Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:20 PM This looks like a good place to put a question I'd love to get some input from Mudcatters on:
I've written a little book that is in the format of a children's book, but it's for adults. It's got illustrations as well as text (I'm in the process of working on the illustrations now). It's about surviving and moving beyond abusive relationships. Because of the unusual nature of this book and its format, I'm at a loss about who to approach about getting it published. Anybody got any good suggestions? Thanks in advance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: poor lonesome boy Date: 26 Mar 02 - 05:26 PM Hey MEJ ... I'm a newspaper editor, so love and hate writers in the same sentence. However, you can't beat the simple Elements of Style for basic writing skills. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Steve-o Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:16 PM The answer for Carol C. can be found in Writer's Market, as already mentioned by the Irish Sergeant. Just read the blurbs about what the company wants as submittals, and start sending out query letters in every direction possible. I am a "semi-tech" writer for a living, and have had some small success getting fiction published... using the Writer's Market Guide. Best of luck to ya! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Peg Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:20 PM Rita Mae Browne also wrote an excellent book on becoming a writer in her book "Starting From Scratch."
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: CarolC Date: 26 Mar 02 - 07:58 PM Thanks Steve-o! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Don Firth Date: 26 Mar 02 - 09:22 PM poor lonesome boy is absolutely right. Strunk and White's The Elements of Style is basic and essential. On the principle that most good writing occurs after you get your first draft finished, I've found Getting the Words Right: How to Revise, Edit, and Rewrite by Theodore A. Rees Cheney to be a great help. He takes it all the way from when to dump a whole chapter ("kill your darlings") down to how to tighten up and clarify a sentence. A good dictionary and a good thesaurus are basic necessities, as is a good style manual. (The Chicago Style Manual seems to be the accepted standard. I've also found that The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage clears up a lot of questions about a lot of odds and ends, such as "do I capitalize this, put it in quotes, or italicize it?" The Random House Word Menu is a good one to have when you can think of the approximate word, but it isn't quite what you want. It gives you lists of words with similar meanings but different nuances. Very helpful. One of my prized and most valuable possessions is a little book called Power and Polish: Writing with a Word Processor by Annie Stewart. She's a local (Seattle) writer, and I think she self-published this. It's sixty-four pages and saddle stapled like a magazine. Published in 1987 by Jugum Press, P. O. Box 95916, Seattle, WA 98145-2916 (although I don't guarantee that this is still current or that the little book is still available). It's not a computer manual (much of what she says is obsolete but still useful), it deals with ways to use the features of a word processor to edit, tighten, and clean up your writing. Another excellent book along the same line is Improve Your Writing with a Word Processor by David F. and Virginia Noble, Que Corporation, Indianapolis, Indiana, 1984. Once again, I don't know if it can be found at all, and the computer information is way out of date, but it has some really ingenious ways of using the features of a word processor (any word processor) to improve your writing. The "blockbuster" macro itself is worth the price of admission. But if the Gods of Quill and Scroll will allow you only two books, make one a good dictionary and the other The Elements of Style by Strunk and White. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Chip2447 Date: 26 Mar 02 - 11:59 PM Now, how do I beat my writers block, brain constipation? Chip2447 |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Irish sergeant Date: 27 Mar 02 - 08:57 PM Chip2447: That's easy for me. I usually just start writing total nonsense and eventually ususally within minutes I can get on with the business of writing. Sometimes an hour of guitar really clears it up. Neil CarolC, PM me I will have an adress of a children's book producer for you by tiommmorow. he's the guys I'm doing my children's book for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Don Firth Date: 28 Mar 02 - 01:22 AM Somebody famous (Hemingway? I dunno.) used to type "The" and then wait to see what he felt compelled to type next. Claims it worked every time. Word processors are great because you can sit there and dither until you see something that looks like a cohesive sentence, then send the gibberish into oblivion with the touch of a button. Sort of the "infinite number of monkeys" method. But nothing cures writer's block quite like having a deadline. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: CarolC Date: 28 Mar 02 - 01:45 AM Thanks Neil. Will do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: JudyR Date: 28 Mar 02 - 04:22 AM Conversely -- re word processors -- sometimes when you are stuck -- actually putting a pen in your hand and seeing what flows out, will free you up. It's a brain-hand thing, I've found, and it works, I think, to deliver what's in the unconscious very directly. Because you can write too much on a computer. Too easy. The other thing I do when I'm stuck is to print it out. Seeing it there in print and being able to manually cross words or whole paragraphs out or change words, somehow makes the writing a tangible thing. This is when you're pretty much at the end of your second or third draft. I use different colored marking pens -- red, black, blue, sometimes yellow. Red works for replacing words above the crossed out lines (in black, of course). Yellow highlights. Then I type it out, repeat the process if necessary -- and amazing how quickly it's "there." And yes, deadlines help a whole, whole lot!
Yes, having a deadline worked for me every time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Barbara Shaw Date: 28 Mar 02 - 03:17 PM Something like a deadline: join a writer's group. I joined one that meets every week, and at each session people have the opportunity to read a bit of what they've written that week. Keeps you motivated to have something to read. Question about copyright. Now that I've published my very first magazine article, I signed a contract that gives the magazine the rights to it. Does that mean that I can't post it in a Mudcat thread? It's about music, so would be relevant, but I don't want to violate any laws! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: MMario Date: 28 Mar 02 - 03:24 PM depends on the wording in your contract! because you may have a) assigned the publishing rights to the magazine for that issue only b) assigned them the rights but retained the right to publish and or assign rights elsewhere. (sometimes this is done after a certain period of time) c) granted PERMISSION for them to publish but retained the rights unto yourself. or about 60 gazillion variations. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Don Firth Date: 28 Mar 02 - 03:50 PM JudyR, all very good suggestions. When I get jaded with the word processor, I go back to basics. I sharpen a whole quiverful of Dixon Ticonderoga #2s, move to a different location, and write on a yellow legal pad. It makes a nice change. When I was in high school (got led down the primrose path to writing aspirations by an English teacher who taught a Creative Writing class), I used to do most of my writing with a fountain pen. Can't buy a decent fountain pen anymore without mortgaging the ranch. Barbara, first of all, congratulations!! You'd need to check the contract to be sure, but most magazines buy "First North Amercan Serial Rights" (assuming you're on this side of the pond), which means they buy the right to publish the piece for the first time. Other than that, you retain rights and can republish it whenever and wherever you want. The 2002 Writer's Market has a pretty good rundown in a chapter called "The Business of Writing" that contains info on all this stuff. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Irish sergeant Date: 28 Mar 02 - 04:10 PM Nothing to add about the rights Judy. that has already been well covered. i don't often get writer's block as I stated. If I start getting stuck I have ways of rattling the cage. CarolC, sent the information I promised via PM if I can be of further help let me know, Kindest regards, Neil |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: JudyR Date: 28 Mar 02 - 04:35 PM Don, thank you. I agree with you about a legal pad and getting somewhere else (thanks for reminding me, though!). Anything to rattle the cage and do something to shake it out! Oh, about the fountain pen -- don't I know it! I had to do an article about an 80-year-old fountain pen shop. Poor guy was being beaten out by the web discounters, but heck -- at $300 for fountain pens, it's a hard purchase to make! Irish Sergeant: Oh, I said something somebody else already said? So sorry. I'll try to read everything on the site before I post it again. I was speaking in general, of anyone who has writer's block from time to time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: JudyR Date: 28 Mar 02 - 04:45 PM Sorry, Neil, I didn't mean to be "short" with you. It hurt my ego a little bit that my personal suggestions had already been "well covered"! I love these book suggestions!! Especially, "Getting the Words Right..." and "The Random House Word Menu!" Now, as soon as I get another check! It just occurred to me that (at least here), you can order books like that online from the main library downtown and have them sent to your local branch (I've done that, and if it's really something I can't do without, I buy it). |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Barbara Shaw Date: 28 Mar 02 - 04:52 PM Don, thanks for the reply. I really have to get a copy of that Writer's Market. I'm really new at this whole thing and don't really know how far it may develop, but I ought to find out what I can. I looked at the contract which says that upon request the magazine will reassign to the author the copyright secured on the work. So, I sent them an e-mail asking to reassign the copyright back to me. But I'm still not clear on whether I could post the article before getting the copyright back. I probably won't post it, though, because it's soooo corny (although heartfelt) that I should have used a pseudonym! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Soundsparker Date: 28 Mar 02 - 08:39 PM Hey writers. Check out the soundsparks.com site. It's fun. Good stories about how the music impacts one'slife. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: greg stephens Date: 28 Mar 02 - 08:58 PM Mudcat Forum accepts most of my stuff( except a thread I started the other day that got censored) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 28 Mar 02 - 09:14 PM One of the best books ever written, after Strunk and White, is The Reader Over Your Shoulder by Robert Graves and Alan hodge. It was first published in the 1940's, in London. Although it is particularly English -- that is, British -- in its examples it offers wonderful examples and insights into the art of disciplined writing. An excerpt of their principles for clarity and grace in writing can be found here. But the whole book is full of gems. Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 28 Mar 02 - 09:18 PM Here's a link to another pellucid essay by Mark Turner and Francis-Noël Thomas, authors of Clear and Simple Truth, also an excellent guide to good writing skills. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 28 Mar 02 - 10:01 PM Here's an introduction to the on-line version of the Writer's Guide which provides constant updates on publishing and writing topics, agents, new demands from magazines, etc, for a reasonable annual subscription. A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Lin in Kansas Date: 29 Mar 02 - 12:30 AM I'm not a writer, per se, but have been an editor, proofreader, and project manager producing books for many years. I would highly recommend the Chicago Manual of Style, 14th ed. for anyone wishing to become a professional writer. Also, as mentioned by several above, Writer's Market is an outstanding source for markets, how to articles, etc. One caveat: Writer's Market is published annually, so it's usually more efficient and economical to visit your public library than to buy the book. (I think it was running somewhere around $35 US last time I looked.) And long may you writers write, 'cause you keep me in business too! Best of luck to all of you. Lin |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Mudlark Date: 29 Mar 02 - 02:01 PM Ah! This is a thread to keep a tracer on. I was in technical publishing in a former life, before I became a potter. Now that I've retired from clay I'm back to writing again....have published in a few obscure journals. I go brain dead from time to time...in fact, every time I finally finish something, I'm sure it's the last thing I'll ever write. But somehow, from somewhere, comes something else sooner or later.
Books--Lots of good suggestions already here but also, for motivation and the pure joy of reading, Ann Lamott's Bird by Bird is excellent, a book to own; also Deena Metzger's Writing for Your Life. For a more general kick in the creative pants, The Artist's Way (julia cameron) is good.
Motivation: The above, plus I agree completely with belonging to a writer's group. Often the ONLY thing that gets me writing again is having to have something to read on Tuesday nights. And I sometimes pull the copies from my printer with barely enough time to make it to the group...still, last minute is better than nothing. I also agree about shifting from computer to pen to pencil...all are different in what they access. I tend to write poetry by hand, technical and fiction on the computer.
Publishing: Despite having been in the field eons ago I find this aspect very daunting. I've never been able to grasp the art of query letters...so much pressure! Suddenly I have to move from the internal to the external, write something that will engage an unknown person with the power of life or death over the child of my heart and brain! So I tend to write a LOT, then bog down at the scary and time consuming effort of trying to get what I write published. However, many people in my writing group have had great success with self-publishing...everything from hand-collated, stapled "booklets" to novels published through on-line houses like i-Universe and U-Publish, then arranging their own book tours. One writer, after going this route for 3 books, has finally hit it big with the fourth--a major publisher has accepted it. I think writing is very akin to making music...they are both fulfilling, energizing, satisfying (even if nothing ever gets published) and can be done alone, and anywhere. I use a computer and a guitar to augment, but a voice and a pencil/paper are virtually free... |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: katlaughing Date: 29 Mar 02 - 04:17 PM Here are some links some may find helpful: Writer's Market dot com, no need to buy the annual edition, as it's all online. You can pay a monthly fee of $2.99 or an annual one of $29.99 for full access which includes your own Submissions Tracker, files for favourites, etc. Well worth it, imo. Top 101 Independent Book Publishers with LOTS of additional info and links Funds for Writers sends out a weekly email of all kinds of funding sources For journalists and marketing: Newslink lists newspapers, magazine, radio, etc. around the world Writer's Digest dot com Editor & Publisher Natinal Assoc. of Women Writers (I haven't had time to explore this, but it looks interesting) Francis Ford Coppola's Zoetrope Studios is a terrific place for writers, screenwriters, composers, musicians, etc. For writing groups it is one of the best as there is a large number of people involved, so one gets really good and varied reviews. If I remember right, for every one story you submit, you have to review 5, or it may be 10. When you have done those, you get to read the reviews of yours, plus when you submit your story it is at the top of the pile as a new submission. Lots to explore and do at this site. Some of the info may be a little out of date at this site, but it is still an interesting read about the future of non-conventional book publishing, with links: The Once and Future Book If you are writing fantasy and building a new world, this is an incredibly helpful site P.C. Wrede's World Builder Questions and, AuthorLink: about Writers, Writing,Editors, Literary Agents... kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: GUEST,DK Date: 30 Mar 02 - 02:40 AM Yo Ho, Yo Ho, a writer's life for me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Irish sergeant Date: 30 Mar 02 - 09:16 AM Judy; I should be the one to apologize. I assumed I was clarifying my tricks as it were rather than stepping on your ideas. And by the way, I didn't think you were impolite or short with me. Kat and everybody; Thanks for the great suggestions, It's threads like this that continually prove what great people mudcatters are. Kindest regards and happy holidays be it Easter, Passover or what ever local holiday you might be celebrating Peace to all, Neil |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Peg Date: 30 Mar 02 - 10:10 AM kat, thanks for all those great links! And everyone else, this is really becoming a very useful thread... For anyone interested in genre writing (fantasy, horror, etc.) the site at www.speculations.com is a very good one... I used to buy The Writer's Market every couple years. It has gotten very expensive. There is no need to buy one every year since the listings of many of the small magazines are hopelessly out of date by publication anyway (editors' names, etc.). But it is a good basic guide to have around and buying your own copy means you can mark it up all you like! The same company also puts out specialty editions for short stories and poetry, etc. As for magazines, I prefer The Writer to Writer's Digest (the latter put out by the Market folks). Also The Science Fiction Chronicle is a good one for listing new or interesting markets every month... Peg
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: katlaughing Date: 06 Apr 04 - 09:08 PM refresh |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 06 Apr 04 - 09:51 PM A wonderful book for loosening up your blocks and other neuroses as a writer -- green or veteran -- is The Artist's Way, by Julia Cameron. I think anyone striving to shake loose the usual artistic shackles should read it and walk it. One of the hardest things it suggests is a sure cure for writer's block. 'Nuff said!! Amazon carries it, I am sure. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amergin Date: 06 Apr 04 - 10:01 PM Part of a writer's line of work is research, otherwise the story falls flat (even pure fantasy need some sort of research, like weapons or whatever)....so what about good research resources? Like me currently I am trying to find good resources (online preferably) of the effects of nuclear fall out. I have a general idea what happens to the human body....but not exact...also the effects on the environment...and the spread of the fallout.from hot zones...to more remote areas... Like I said I am looking..and have found some ok sources...but nothing that goes into detail. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 06 Apr 04 - 11:43 PM There are photos on the internet of the vicitims of Hiroshima (long after) or there were at one point. And there are books in the library. Between these you will find what you need. But you gotta do your own digging. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: JohnInKansas Date: 07 Apr 04 - 12:03 AM Amergin - One of the popular "fallout conspiracy" tales that's been batted around for several decades relates to the group of actors and filming crews who made 2(?) movies in the desert (Nevada or Arizona?) near where a US nuclear test had been staged. Era was the 1950s. The only irrefutable conclusion was that both the movies were "bombs," and I don't remember the names, but a couple of books claimed that nearly 35% of the people involved eventually died of cancer. The only participant whose name I'm sure of was John Wayne. At least one female (an actress) did file suit against the AEC(?) over it, but I don't know the outcome of the suit. At least it's a lead other than Chernobyl. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Rapparee Date: 07 Apr 04 - 02:07 PM See if you can get ahold of a book called "Effects of Nuclear Weapons." It was published in several editions by the US Government; my edition is that of 1967. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 07 Apr 04 - 03:01 PM Here's one document on the topic. If you just drop "Effects of Nuclear Weapons" into Google you'll find several. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amergin Date: 07 Apr 04 - 03:10 PM Thank you all...I will be sifting into alot of this information...i did find some documents on Kazaa regarding it and a couple of books to look for...(Thanks Rapaire)... I did find a book that sounded interesting...if a bit scary...it is called How to Make a Nuclear Bomb. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Don Firth Date: 07 Apr 04 - 04:08 PM It's been years since I read it, but you might see if you can find a copy of Thinking About the Unthinkable by Herman Kahn. Damned scary book! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: YorkshireYankee Date: 07 Apr 04 - 05:19 PM "The cast & crew of the film The Conqueror were exposed to atomic radiation from the Nevada test site and within 25 years a quarter of the 200 members had died of cancer, including Susan Hayward, Agnes Moorhead & John Wayne." (from the "20th Century America" site) And here's a link you might find useful: www.nuclearfiles.org/, "Everything you need to know about nuclear age history". Cheers, YY |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:05 PM Back to the subjectr, there is one book that no writer in English should be without. It is "The Reader Over Your Shoulder" by Robert Graves and Alan Hodges, and it is one of the clearest expositions on the bones of decent clear writing I haver had the pleasure to read. Vintage Books, New York, 1979 paperback edition.Originally published by Jonathon Cape, London, 1943 |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Amos Date: 06 Mar 10 - 06:24 PM I have finally gotten a copy of "The Forest for the Trees" by Betsy Lerner. If, as a writer, you want a well-turned fulsome collection of thoughtful insights into what you are doing, Lerner will fill the bill. I am enjoying it terrifically. Mostly, I think, because she gathers together the views of so many writers and presents them compassionately and thoughtfully, that in some way it makes you feel you are among friend who understand your battle in a way that others cannot understand. Riverhead Books, New York, 2000 I-57322-I52-X |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: katlaughing Date: 06 Mar 10 - 07:51 PM I am surprised none of us mentioned Stephen King's book "On Writing." It is excellent and surprising. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: ichMael Date: 06 Mar 10 - 08:04 PM Harbrace College Handbook, the Chicago Manual of Style, and the foot-thick old Webster's dictionary for grammar and such. I've found WordWeb to be a good little computer dictionary. You can download it for free. Amazing little tool. As for as writing websites, absolutewrite covers just about every type of writing you can think of. For submissions, duotrope and Preditors & Editors. The "Agents & Attorneys" link at P&E has a breakdown of reports received on unscrupulous organizations and people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Melissa Date: 06 Mar 10 - 08:14 PM I was reading to the bottom of the thread thinking how surprising it was that nobody had mentioned Stephen King's "On Writing" ..dang, scooped again! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: LadyJean Date: 06 Mar 10 - 11:33 PM Annie Dillard wrote about writing too. I don't know how good her book is. We went to the same high school, though not at the same time, and had the same wonderful English teacher, who taught me most of what I know about writing. I suspect she also taught Ms. Dillard, but Ms. Dillard wrote some very unkind things about her in her autobiography, "An American Childhood". I've been collecting rejection letters for more than 30 years. You'd think I'd learn better by now. My sister told me last Christmas that I didn't need to write. She's mistaken. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The writer's life From: Riginslinger Date: 07 Mar 10 - 07:52 PM It seems to me like literary fiction is saturated with people in MFA programs around the country--and other places--who, with little worldly experience themselves, continue to turn out pieces written by writers about writers. |
