BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 02 - 11:58 PM

NAY - they are just like the priests.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: Wincing Devil
Date: 17 Mar 02 - 01:58 AM

What's wrong with the idea of letting a kid grow up in a home filled with love and respect? I'm afraid that to this day, some people are still confusing homosexuality with pedophilia.

WD

"Behold my son and son-in-law, with both of whom I am well pleased!" (That ought to piss off the Christian right, which is, of course, neither!)

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: WyoWoman
Date: 17 Mar 02 - 11:59 AM

It's particularly puzzling why the American Taliban is making such a big deal about gay issues large and small, considering that the Messiah they allegedly swear allegiance to didn't say zilch about gay/lesbian/bi/or straightness. Just about caring for the "least of these," which certainly applies to a bunch of children in need of a loving, supporting family.

So yeah, Spaw, my "humor" is more of the gallows kind. The situation is so grim and disgusting I don't know what to do but pull out my big irony gun and point it in that general direction. I can't believe we're chasing around blowing up various parts of the world and threatening to devastate others when the equivalent of a World Trade Center full of children is dying from stavation just about every day we draw breath.

We live amidst much irrationality.

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: SINSULL
Date: 17 Mar 02 - 01:50 PM

I wrote a three page tirade and then erased it. Your welcome!
Children need safe, loving, stable homes. If a gay single or couple can provide that, I for one am all for their right to adopt.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 17 Mar 02 - 03:13 PM

So long as the people in question are not supporters/believers of NAMBLA...

In my opinion, adoption should be based on a person or couples mental health. If they are healthy, sane, loving people, that should be the criteria, period. Gender, race, religion etc. should not matter.

However, there are still those in the mental health community who say that homosexuality itself is a pathological problem coming from early childhood issues and traumas, indicating that, if the person in question *is* homosexual, there automatically are inherant mental issues.

The flip side of the argument is that it is simply something that each gay person is hardwired for, that there is a "gay gene", and that it is no more a pathological problem than is heterosexuality.

I say the jury is still out, and until one side or the other proves it's case, *nothing* should be based on ones sexual preference alone. It should always be about the individual, their character, and their abilities. Frankly, I think this not a bad modality of thought concerning a great many issues...

However, I like Seamus' answer a great deal more. Very clever and funny...wish I'd thought of it first.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: Murrey
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 12:31 AM

It is quite evident that the "LAW " rarely makes decsions based on the welfare of a child and what is best. A child who is loved and secure and is taught to value their worth as a human being can handle anything that life hands out --even teasing about a home where two parents are of the same gender. It's time to put children first and open the doors to loving stable homes where they can grow and understand that diversity isn't something evil and maybe -maybe we'll all be better for it ! Murrey

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: Desdemona
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 12:05 PM

Spaw,

Love you right back, sweetie; my intention was not to tar & feather any & all foster families with one brush, although that's clearly what I did---mea maxima culpa!

Clearly, as in all kinds of families, including thje biological variety, there are excellent foster families and wretched ones, as well as all things in between. My meaning was that it seems not in the best interest of a child to deny them the opportunity to be adopted by a family they already belong to in emotional terms (and in many of these cases the prospective adoptive parents ARE the foster parents; the only parents these kids have known).

Bless you and Karen for being what I know in my heart were amongst the best foster parents a child could hope for; I wish that the necessary funds and resources were available to enable more good-hearted & right-minded people to perform this very important human service.

(I prolly should PM'd you on this one, but wanted to tender my apologies for any misconstrued and wholly unintentional offense in a public arena!)

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 01:00 PM

Nay... Gay couples have the inherent right to have their own biological children. Society has no place legitimizing an abnormality, by giving gays the right to adopt into an abnormal situation. This has nothing to do with religion either.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: MMario
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 01:28 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: RichM
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 06:59 PM

Abnormality?
Humans have been creating artificial(abnormal) environments and societies for many many centuries.
You could say that anyone who raises a child with love and care IS normal.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: John P
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 07:15 PM

Please don't feed the troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: RichM
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 07:23 PM

I've never been happy with the definition of *troll*, or of attempts to organize group shunnings of same.

The internet is a buffet meal; take what you like, and leave the rest....

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: kendall
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 08:23 PM

If we were all enlightened, we wouldn't be here. Those hate mongers wont face facts; it is biological, not a choice. Homo sexuality has been observed among animals; are they making a choice to be immoral?

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 18 Mar 02 - 11:21 PM

We Amurikins are a wierd bunch. Florida law denies gays the right to adopt (but it's OK to foster) needful children. NYC takes children away from abused and battered mothers because NYC feels the children could be exposed to violence! The city lost the suit filed on behalf of the battered mothers. The city is going to appeal!

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: GUEST,altview
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 12:38 AM

Just a few thoughts to stir the pot, and a rhetoric check… A lot of posts here suggest that a "loving family" should be the criteria, butfrom a policy standpoint how do you define "loving"?

I know, I know, you know it when you see it, but isn't that too subjective for law? I would include in a definition of love the values of discipline, self-control and commitment - virtues which are not much attached to sexuality in our culture, straight or gay…

I also believe it is best for a child to know the influence of both male and female in the family. To discard this as if it doesn't matter seems a form of sexism…

How does the logic of the argument apply to bi-sexual people? To those who are into bestiality? Where do we draw the lines? And why?

To compare "good" homosexuals with "bad" heterosexuals is rhetorically manipulative and not very helpful in grappling with the issues at hand… And finally, I'm sorry I missed the "Gay Adoption" documentary, but if I had to guess, I would say it was an advocacy piece in which homosexuals were presented in the best possible light and anyone who disagreed, particularly from a religious point of view, were presented as stereotypical, imbecilic, illogical morons… when was the last time you saw anyone even question, let alone disagree with, a homosexual on TV without being obviously pointed out as a "fundamentalist", fanatic idiot? Open minded, indeed…

Sorry to upset the apple cart, just wanted to express an alternative view

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: mzkitty
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 09:32 AM

I say "Yea", if the kid(s) to be adopted don't mind. I think love is above sexual prefrence. Many things "proven" right or wrong at one point in time or place have been "proven" differently at another time or place.

Meanwhile, lonely children live in pain, wondering why no one wants them. I wonder how those children would respond to the question of adoption by a loving gay couple.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 07:39 PM

Kendall penned: "If we were all enlightened, we wouldn't be here. Those hate mongers wont face facts; it is biological, not a choice. Homo sexuality has been observed among animals; are they making a choice to be immoral?"

Playing devils advocate here...

Just because a thing happens for animals as well as humans does not make it something that is *not* pathological in origin. Animals are subject to some of the same traumas that we are. Taking it completely away from the religious arguments that seem so prevalent, what purpose would it serve in nature? If natural selection is alive and well in the world, then the "genes" for it would die out with those that carried them inside of a generation or 2. Without intelligent intervention, 2 males or 2 females *cannot* procreate, and therefor, their genes will not be passed on. From an evolutionary standpoint, it doesn't make much sense. It is not "survival of the fittest" if you don't enter the gene pool.

Now, speaking for myself, I say that the jury is very much still out. Neither side has produced any absolutely conclusive evidence that it definitely *is* biological, or that it definitely *is* environmental. What 2 people decide to do in their own bedroom is none of my business, and a persons worth should be based on their own actions and honor, nothing more.

However...I think it is not logical to proclaim that something has been scientifically proven when it has not.

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: John P
Date: 19 Mar 02 - 11:10 PM

altview,
The problem with using religious principles to deny gay people the same rights that are enjoyed by non-gay people is that it is unconstitutional. Members of religions may believe any damn thing they like, but as soon as they start trying to pass laws making the rest of us live according to their beliefs they are engaged in an attempt to overthrow the constitution of the United States. They are often presented as moronic because they often act in a moronic manner. Have you ever really paid attention to the logical content of someone who thinks the right to get married is a "special right" for a gay person, but not for others? Assuming that our government should have some say in the sex lives of its citizens actually is imbecilic, so I'm not surprised that the news sometimes presents proponents of that belief in that light.

The only perversion I see in most of these arguments is the fact that so many people are willing to concern themselves with what other people do in bed. Most of these same people would be horrified if we expected to discuss their sex lives in public.

Should gay people, or single people, or members of other races have the right to adopt? Only in exactly the same way that non-gay, married, racially homogenous people have that right. Anything else is a serious human rights infraction.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: GUEST,Souter
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:17 PM

Well, assuming that were talking about good people who happen to be gay, there shouldn't be a problem. As to so called "traditional" i.e nuclear families, that's actually a very recent idea. Historically, people were muchmore likely to live in an extended family than a nuclear one. There's even cultures where people stay in the same homes with their mother and siblings all their lives, and the father lives with HIS mother and siblings, not his kids. Those cultures aren't any sicker than our own, so how can one say our "traditional" way is necessarily better?

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:39 PM

I haven't formed an opinion on this subject, but in answer to the supposition that there is no evolutionary basis for homosexual behavor, I suggest checking out this site, or doing a search on the keyword, "bonobo".

Bonobos

Subject: RE: BS: Gay Adoption-Yea or Nay
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 20 Mar 02 - 09:47 PM

Hah, good point about bonobos, Carol. :)

And my cat is gay...

---Lepus Rex (pro-gay-adoption, btw)