Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 10:05 AM

Today is the last day of this year's Supreme Court session, so it is expected they will release the decision about Trump's claim of immunity (scroll to the bottom). Unless they punt it to next session (beginning first Monday in October).

Meanwhile, Heather Cox Richardson has spelled out the facts behind one of Trump's claims about the Ukraine during the debate (after saying he alone could get Putin to release Gershkovich, the Wall Street Journal reporter on trial now). Not sure if this is part of the public content (I paid for her Substack "Letters From An American" after the debate, to get sound information about the context of these political times). I've read the free stuff for quite a while. June 28, 2024 in which she discusses how Trump has today been interfering with negotiations to release Gershkovich, and how Putin's debt to Trump goes back to early planning of the annexing eastern Ukraine, ahead of starting the war.

She says:

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s 2019 report on Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election explained that Paul Manafort, Trump’s campaign manager and then conduit to Russian operatives, in summer 2016 “discussed a plan to resolve the ongoing political problems in Ukraine by creating an autonomous republic in its more industrialized eastern region of Donbas, and having [Viktor] Yanukovych, the Ukrainian President ousted in 2014, elected to head that republic.”

Manafort had helped to get the pro-Russian oligarch Yanukovych into office, and when Yanukovych fled to Russia after the Ukrainian people threw him out, Manafort was left unemployed and in debt to other oligarchs. When he went to work for Trump, for free, he promptly wrote to his partner Konstantin Kilimnik, whom the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee identified in 2020 as a Russian operative, asking how “we” could use the appointment “to get whole,” and made sure that the Russian oligarch to whom he owed the most money knew about his close connection with the Trump campaign (p. 135).

The Mueller Report continued: “That plan, Manafort later acknowledged, constituted a ‘backdoor’ means for Russia to control eastern Ukraine” (p. 140). The region that Putin wanted was the country’s industrial heartland. He was offering a “peace” plan that carved off much of Ukraine and made it subservient to him. This was the dead opposite of U.S. policy for a free and united Ukraine, and there was no chance that former secretary of state Hillary Clinton, who was running for the presidency against Trump, would stand for it. But if only Trump were elected….

And, in November 2016, he was.

According to the Republican-dominated Senate Intelligence Committee, Manafort’s partner and Russian operative Kilimnick wrote that "[a]ll that is required to start the process is a very minor 'wink' (or slight push) from D[onald] T[rump] saying 'he wants peace in Ukraine and Donbass back in Ukraine' and a decision to be a 'special representative' and manage this process." Following that, Kilimnik suggested that Manafort ‘could start the process and within 10 days visit Russia ([Yanukovych] guarantees your reception at the very top level, cutting through all the bullsh*t and getting down to business), Ukraine, and key EU capitals.’ The email also suggested that once then–Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko understood this ‘message’ from the United States, the process ‘will go very fast and DT could have peace in Ukraine basically within a few months after inauguration’” (p. 99).

According to the Senate Intelligence Committee, the men continued to work on what they called the “Mariupol Plan” at least until 2018.

There's quite a bit more to this column, if you can open the link.

Once Biden was in office the Trump folks were no longer fiddling in Ukraine affairs, and Putin went ahead and invaded.
Trump was able to dismiss the Mueller Report, with the help of his then Attorney General Barr, who offered a "summary" to the public that had nothing to do with what was actually in the report.

This is something else that Trump should be charged with, but chances are slim it would ever happen. Manafort and a couple of others did go to prison (though Trump pardoned Manafort, who is now working in the background of the Trump campaign.)

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 11:00 AM

Trump is getting a big bang from those Supreme Court appointees - he is given limited immunity, and the writeup is just starting so you'll have to read more detailed articles later to get the fine points.

6-3 decision along party lines, that Sotomayor said "never in the history of our republic . . . The long term results are stark" as she described as immunity from horrible behavior. He'll be able to take bribes legally, let people buy pardons, etc. Making him a king.

The one plus - should Trump get into office, he wouldn't be able to charge Biden (for simply being Biden.)

We have to get through this election and immediately pass some laws that render that decision null.

With this decision, things outside of official activity are not immune, but that looks like a huge gray area while someone is in office.

"Just slap the label 'official act' on it and do what you want," says Neal Katyal.

CNN has coverage and should be readable without a paywall.

There will be a lower court hearing to discuss official acts (and it gives Judge Chutkan a lot more "official" material to look through) and decide how much of the cases Jack Smith brought can go forward. She will still have some material to work with, but they've put hurdles in the way.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 02:49 PM

Interference in Ukraine by Russia with Trump's blessing and Manafort's assistance! OMG. Unbelievable in any normal times but just another Trump era escapade to add to the list of his misdemeanors.

I'm starting to realise why Putin was smirking at Trump when they met. I thought it meant that Putin thought Trump was an idiot. Now I think Putin just thought Trump was a performing monkey in a circus, trained to do any trick Putin wanted, easily used for his own ends.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 03:17 PM

> [Trump] has said very little about what he hopes to do
> if he is re-elected

In a word: Revenge.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 03:32 PM

Trump ally Steve Bannon arrives at federal prison to begin 4-month sentence - and every time another one of his cronies goes to prison, it makes it more imaginable that Trump could end up there also.

Trump is convicted, and if he is given a prison sentence, it's not like he reports directly to the hoosegow (only in Perry Mason). He then has to go through another bond process to stay out of jail during his appeal (is my rough understanding of how that can work). All of those steps, and of having a parole officer, are things that would work against any other candidate. Donald still has a lot of Teflon stuck to that orange exterior, though it has been pierced, so we're on pins and needles to see the outcome. Until the next outcome rolls along . . .

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 04:12 PM

When this is all over - will it ever be over? - just think of the TV series and Hollywood movies which will be made, each with their own take on who Trump really is, and then there will be the comedy takes on it all, but for now, it's all drama.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 05:04 PM

Have you not seen Bad President ?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jul 24 - 10:45 PM

I've heard about it. Perhaps it is time to look it up.

Trump's lawyers announced today they are going to ask the judge in his payments to Stormy Daniels trial to set aside the verdict, based upon the Supreme Court ruling today. But what he did was totally a private act, a non-official act, and the State of New York found him guilty. The lawyers didn't turn in their recommendations for his punishment that were due today (the prosecutors, the parole department, and the defense all get to give an opinion to the judge). So who knows what will happen next week.

Stay tuned.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 07:29 AM

Have I got this right - The supreme court have ruled that the president of the USA is immune from proscecution for "official acts"?

Heaven help us all and protect ups from the American "justice" system...

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 08:04 AM

Points of order:

* Is the ruling in question retroactive?

* There's been much discussion on the wireless this morning. It's been suggested that said ruling seems to be so tightly fitted to Don the Con's circumstances that it couldn't be used in other cases.

Adjudication, please.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 08:08 AM

Well I’m glad it’s not just me who’s jaw-dropped, Dave. I just don’t ‘get it’ how the judges can make this stuff up on the hoof - isn’t Congress the legislature of the US? Shouldn’t a change in the law require an Act of Congress?

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 09:25 AM

The way it was written, the Supreme Court would have to decide in the end, in any given case, what is "official" versus "unofficial." They could give no examples of these things during the reading of the decision. So something they let Donald get away with they wouldn't let Biden get away with.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 10:43 AM

The Supreme Court should be apolitical, not a tool of the political parties. And this latest piece of BS is proof absolute. Judges should not be appointed by Presidents, nor on the basis of their political leanings.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 03:51 PM

News just in:

Donald Trump's sentencing delayed after US Supreme Court ruling on presidential immunity

"A New York judge has delayed Donald Trump's sentencing for criminal conduct until September at the earliest, after the former US president asked for a chance to argue he should have been immune from prosecution.

"The former president's sentencing, for falsifying business records to disguise hush money paid to porn star Stormy Daniels, had been set for July 11.

"But it faces potential complications after the US Supreme Court ruled on Monday, local time, that ex-presidents have some immunity from criminal prosecution in some circumstances.

"The postponement delays the sentencing until at least September 18, well after this month's Republican National Convention, where Mr Trump is set formally to accept the party’s nomination for president in this year's race."

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jul 24 - 10:50 PM

Rudy Giuliani disbarred in New York as court finds he repeatedly lied about Trump's 2020 election loss

"In short:

"Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor, federal prosecutor and legal adviser to Donald Trump, was disbarred in New York after a court found he repeatedly made false statements about Trump's 2020 election loss.

"Mr Giuliani actively contributed to the fallout following the 2020 presidential election, the court said.
What's next?

"He is facing criminal charges in Georgia and Arizona over his role in the effort to overturn the 2020 election."

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 24 - 11:32 AM

Rachel Maddow did a long-form interview with Stormy Daniels last night. There was quite an "ick" factor, because they read through the transcripts of things that didn't go out over the air during the trial. She was not happy about the events in that hotel room.

During the program, Rachel noted that Daniels has financial problems because a decision that worked against her meant she had to pay Trump's legal fees (back in ~ 2018). It was the same kind of thing as in the E. Jean trial, but worked against Daniels. At any rate, a friend of hers set up a GoFundMe account to cover her legal bills and last night when I looked in it was at $30,000. Now it is up to $624,000. I made an anonymous donation (who wants their name on a list Trump Trolls can mine?) Part of Daniels problem is from refusing to fill out information on a form that would have included her 13-year-old daughter's name and address. Daniels herself was doxxed (a form was put up during the trial, and she pointed out to the judge that it had her address. She had to say it twice.) A sidebar resulted in the form being taken off of the screen and not entered into the record, but all of the attorneys and court officers could see that address before the form was taken down. Her home address was put online during that hearing. She wasn't paid or compensated for her time and travel during the trail (to which she was subpoenaed.)

Andrew Weissman yesterday pointed out that the sentencing date pushed to September is not a bad thing - it puts it right in front of the election "when people are starting to pay attention." (Hard to imagine that anyone isn't riveted to this news now, but whatever). And if Trump wants to appeal the conviction and sentence, the deciding body for any complaints is the New York Supreme Court, not the US one. That could come later, but way after the election.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Jul 24 - 04:44 PM

As of this afternoon, $708,000 to help Ms. Daniels. This is in 18 hours since Maddow's interview; I hope pundits are reading something into this. It's a damned shame the bulk of the money raised has to go to Trump for those legal fees. As she said last night, it isn't fair, when he set all of this in motion.

Subject: RE: Trump CONVICTED - NO new Trump threads part III
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Jul 24 - 11:22 AM

This morning she is up to $912,000 toward the $1M goal. Getting her out from under Trump's thumb will be a welcome move.

It seems there is always new material to mine when Trump's folks get their comeuppance. Lincoln Project apparently posted a jab at Bannon in prison, one of those "don't drop the soap" references, that has prison rights activists complaining. I don't get the impression that Danbury minimum security prison (this is the "high profile" prison for rich folks) has gangs. It's the punchline when talking about prison for rich folks (does it have a golf course?)

Trump can go there. I don't care. Just put him in prison. Except that's federal, and he would more likely end up at Rikers, next to his former COO.