Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: GUEST,SteveG
Date: 30 Dec 10 - 07:26 PM

Moorman was from East Riding farming stock and by the time he wrote his dialect stuff was president of the YDS and a prof at Leeds Uni.
He wasn't using his native dialect if he had one. The first line does reflect to some degree his moving from East Riding rural to W Riding industrial urban.

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: stallion
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 03:13 AM

Got me fooled there steveG East Riding rural could be bevla, 'ornsea or dare i say it pock, maybe wolds way. The wolds accent was nearer to my dads accent (Staxton, very close)and from the Seamer and Malton markets which drew people from the North Yorks Moors as well as the vale of Pickering and the vale of York and as I remember undercernibly different if not a foriegn language! The urban accents were and probably still are very different, I spent two years living and working in 'ull '70 - '72 and boy the accent was the strangest and the stench from the fish dock on the wrong day was disgusting. My old english teacher, Mrs Brown, used to read out poems printed in the "Dalesman"in dialect in class she was worried that the Yorkshire identity would disappear with the loss of the dialect. Sadly it is dying out and what is worse, i was at the pub on christmas eve where they put on a christmas songs singalong and all the kids under 21 were singing with pseudo yankee accents what the hell is that all about?

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: r.padgett
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 03:35 AM

Just another point in passing
I recorded this recently and MCPS has Dave Keddie as being responsible for the tune officially

Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: Roughyed
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 03:39 AM

There is a Bradford in Manchester that my mother (a Lancashire woman) always pronounced Bratford. I never heard her refer to the place on the worng side of the Pennines. As for the dialect, it's a song about how awful Yorkshire is - of course it's got some Lancastrian constructions:)

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 04:19 AM

Sure you were listening carefully enough Roughyed?

I can't say for sure how the people on the TRUE wrong side of the Pennines might pronounce Bradford, but in every case I've ever encountered where someone has thought that a Yorkshire person has said "Bratford", they've not been listening properly....it's a glottal stop for sure, NOT a "t": "Bra'f'd" !!!

"Bra'f'd"
"Bra'f'd"
"Bra'f'd"
"Bra'f'd"
"Bra'f'd"

:-)

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 31 Dec 10 - 02:49 PM

Too true, Rob. The big problem is trying to explain to offcomedun's what the noise made by the absence of a sound makes what is left sound like.
Quack!
Geoff ' Duck.

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: GUEST,Peterr
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 11:18 AM

Delighted MCPS have the tune credited to Dave Keddy. It was the theme playing behind many scenes in 'Brassed Off' so should have been a nice earner. I'll be singing the song tonight at the Blue Anchor in Helston in memory of Pete Postlethwaite.

Subject: RE: Beggars Bush
From: GUEST,John Adams
Date: 09 Mar 11 - 04:51 PM

Neil - thanks for this useful intro to 'Beggars Bush'. We have one in Croydon, which sits on a hilltop very near the parish boundary with Wallington and a reputed 'Saxon' graveyard. I have been studying it for some time. The oddity is that it was a feature on the landscape, rather than a farm - it seems to have been a clump of trees. It first appears on maps in 1816, and had vanished from them by 1960, though it has a ghostly presence on land title deeds of houses on the spot. One theory is that it divided the arable lands of Croydon from the pastoral land of Wallington. Since Wallington was 'welsh', this could indeed be an ancient boundary. Any thoughts ? I would be interested to see your list of 120 - do you have the one between Stafforshire and Chester which was also a reputed graveyard (of beggars). You can mail me on [e-mail] if you wish. I will also send you my piece when it is finished. John.

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 25 Mar 11 - 02:59 PM

Meanwhile, another reason why you might want to be delivered from Hull:

drunks banned from Hull city centre

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 May 12 - 09:38 AM

Don't think Dennis Sabey ever got any credit for this. Song most associated with Dave Burland I think.....

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 06 May 12 - 11:07 AM

Mention is made here of the song 'The Methody Parson', sung by me on my Topic vinyl 'Champions of Folly'. I learned the song in 1962 or 63 from Tom Randall of Retford, then living in Cardiff. He got it from a great Yorkshire folk stalwart, the late Rennie Pickles. Tom is now retired from a career as a bookseller, and lives in Somerset, where he once played concertina in The Blue Hill Button Band. Maybe he still does.
Incidentally, 'Champions of Folly' was reviewed by someone in North Wales who said, in effect, I haven't got the original words, that the album was fine Except for 'The Methody Parson' which was in very bad taste'
Memories of Rennie Pickles anyone?

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 May 12 - 01:32 PM

Yep, Dave,
Lots of memories of Rennie, in The Cropper Lads. Jim Potter has returned to the fold in recent years and can be heard on the YG website. Pat Pickles is still around doing her jig dolls and postcards in Wakefield. I used to buy and sell books from Tom as well. Small world! I believe 'Methody Parson' was collected by one of the students on the Leeds Folklife Course. I've got it somewhere, but it's not particularly a Yorkshire song and not all that scarce.

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 May 12 - 03:25 AM

Jim Potter lives half mile from me in Barnsley! Stalwart again at The Grove in Leeds with Alma Wright

Rennie, big lad 40 cigs a day big mutton chops, Jim Potter has some nice photos of the Cropper lads in the early days

Pat and Rennie collected postcards too and were to be seen at Redcar ff for many years and a lad for mucky jokes and we had an hilarious time with Brian Howard, Johnny Booker and Rennie one year!

Dancing dolls to my shame I missed this with Pat, Rolf Harris and Dick Harrison and I think Steve Gardham and some more of my mates. All sort of dancing dolls collected by Pat and Rennie

Methody parson on Bill Price's first LP a Fine old Yorkshire Gentleman and of course Ruth and Sadie [Price] now singing together and Wendy playing melodeon for dance teams!
Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 07 May 12 - 04:29 AM

Hi Ray,
Went to see She Shanties at Ruscadors in Hull about a week ago. Very entertaining and Ruth and Sadie were in good form. Nice to see Ester and Eilish singing again, and Sally Gall as well. Mick did a good support spot.

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany?
From: r.padgett
Date: 09 May 12 - 04:32 AM

Holmfirth coming up Steve!
Busy festival time, might get to see the She Shanties sometime!
Ray

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Dec 21 - 01:25 AM

The Dalesman's Litany · Tim Hart & Maddy Prior: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbSRf8KUlRU

---

Differences marked in italics.

DALESMAN'S LITANY (DT Lyrics) It's hard when folks can't find their work where they've been bred and born When I was young I always thought I'd bide among fruits and corn But I've been forced to work in towns so here's my litany From Hull and Halifax and Hell Good Lord deliver me When I was courting Mary Jane The old Squire he said one day I've no room here for wedded folks Choose whether to wed or stay Well I couldn't give up the lass that I loved So to town we had to flee From Hull and Halifax and Hell Good Lord deliver me I've worked in Leeds and Huddersfield and addled honest brass At Bradford, Keighley, Rotherham I've kept m'bairns and m'lass I've travelled all three Ridings round And once I went to sea From forges, mills and sailing ships Good Lord deliver me I've walked at night thru Sheffield lanes T'was the same as being in Hell Where furnaces thrust out tongues of fire and roared like the wind on the fell And I've shovelled coals in the Barnsley pits with muck up to m'knee From Sheffield, Barnsley, Rotherham Good Lord deliver me I've seen fog creeping across Leeds brig as thick as Bastille soup I've lived where folks were stowed away like rabbits in a coop And I've seen snow float down Bradford Beck as black as ebony From Hunslet, Holbeck, Wibsey, Slack Good lord deliver me Well now our children are all fled to the country we've come back There's forty miles of heathery moor 'twixt us and the coal pits slack And as I sit by the fire at night I laugh and shout with glee From Hull and Halifax and Hell Good Lord deliver me.

DALESMAN'S LITANY (from Prior & Hart) It's hard when folks can't find their work where they've been bred and born When I was young I always thought I'd bide amidst fruits and corn But I've been forced to work in towns so here's my litany From Hull and Halifax and Hell Good Lord deliver me When I was courting Mary Jane The old Squire he says to me I've no rooms for wedded folks Choose whether to go or stay I could not give up the girl I loved So to town I was forced to flee From Hull and Halifax and Hell Good Lord deliver me I've worked in Leeds and Huddersfield and I've earned some honest brass At Bradford, Keighley, Rotherham I've kept my bairns and lass I've travelled all three Ridings round And once I went to sea From forges, mills and coaling boats Good Lord deliver me I've walked at night thru Sheffield lanes T'was just like being in Hell Where furnaces thrust out tongues of fire and roared like the wind on the fell And I've sammed up coals in Barnsley pits with muck up to my knee From Barnsley, Sheffield, Rotherham Good Lord deliver me I've seen fog creep across Leeds bridge as thick as the Bastille soup I've lived where folks were stowed away like rabbits in a coop I've seen snow float down Bradford Beck as black as ebony From Hunslet, Holbeck, Wibsey, Slack Good Lord deliver me But now that all our children have gone to the country we've come back There's forty miles of heathery moor 'twixt us and the coal pits' stack And as I sit by the fire at night I laugh and shout with glee From Hull and Halifax and Hell The Good Lord delivered me.

recorded by Hart and Prior on Olde England
and Frankie Armstrong on Here's a Health
@work @mining
filename[ DALESLIT
TUNE FILE: DALESLIT
CLICK TO PLAY
SOF

Popup Midi Player

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Dec 21 - 02:21 AM

It's actually ' Bevington Bush ' which is nearly always miss-sung as ' Beggars Bush ' and it is in Dublin.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 05:20 AM

where is Hunsley Slack?
Something came up (in a different parish) with an inscription on a boundary stone delineating the boundary of Hunsley. Which is probably High Hunsley, which doesn't seem to have any old coal mines. Assuming slack refers to a spoil heap laced with coal too small to be of much use.
Slack was a usual word for coal that is almost &/or dust, in South Staffs.
TIA

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 09:38 AM

According to Erwin Ekwall (Dictionary or English Placenames) , "slack" is a shallow valley, from old Norse slakki. Many Yorkshire placenames were influenced by the Vikings (mainly Danish in the east).

The East Yorkshire Hunsleys are far too rural to be associated with hell, I suspect it may have been Hunslet. Which was highly industrialised in the 19th century.

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 09:51 AM

The line in Moorman's poem, as shown in the first post in this thread, is "Frae Hunslet, Holbeck, Wibsey Slack".

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 10:17 AM

Thanks Guest, that enables us to pinpoint Wibsey Slack:
Just south of Hillam's garage

This is Slack Bottom on the 1852 6" OS map .

Subject: RE: Origins: Who Wrote Dalesman's Litany? (Moorman)
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 12:15 PM

^
Here's another link to the historic map zoomed in to Wibsey Slack,
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102344953#zoom=5.9&lat=2882&lon=9903&la

& on googlemaps very roughly marked out with a 'route'
https://maps.app.goo.gl/i48rHUqnfVxahtjw5