BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?

Subject: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,The Caretaker
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 11:18 PM

I hope that even though I am a guest, this can be discussed. For the Liberal throngs here, is morality the correct answer? Or the lack of it?

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 11:35 PM

"... is morality the correct answer? "

To what question?

Tolerance as endorsement is always from a critic's viewpoint. You can hardly expect the 'tolerant' ones to answer that.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:07 AM

Dear Guest Caretaker,

Is this a test?

If so, who grades the test? You?

And if ao, if we have to take this test, I confess that I don't understand your questions.

I'm not sure who these Liberal throngs are or maybe you meant thongs or thrones??

And Dear Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. Guest Caretaker, if this is a test, I'm curious, what do we get if we pass?

And what happens if we fail?

Do we get kicked to the curb

or worse?

**

Sorry if you can't tolerate word games. Sometimes, I don't like word games either.

In any event, have a good day or a good night.

Shucks, have both a good day and a good night.


My name is Azizi and I endorse this post.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:09 AM

LMAO...two great responses in less than an hour!

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: John O'L
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:22 AM

Perhaps I can clarify things a little -

Q: When does tolerance become endorsement?
A: Morality.
OR
Q: When does tolerance become endorsement?
A: Lack of morality.


Discuss

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: folk1e
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:58 AM

When you allow your natural good feelings to your antagonist to slide into apathy!

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: TheSnail
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 08:11 AM

I refuse to tolerate intolerance.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 08:19 AM

when does tolerance become endorsement?

It never does.

But it can look like endorsement if the issue is important enough -- if the morality underlying the issue is grave enough.

"All it takes for evil to prevail in this world is for enough good men to do nothing."

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 08:30 AM

Always or Never depending upon your line of sight and field of vision. Remember to always allow for windage and elevation.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 09:52 AM

Tolerance can mean a whole host of things, ranging from total indifference about what other people do - "if you want to beat your wife thta's nothing to do with me" - to refraining from actually physicall;y punishing behaviour you object to.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 10:49 AM

John O'L said:

Q: When does tolerance become endorsement?
A: Morality.
OR
Q: When does tolerance become endorsement?
A: Lack of morality.

First, neither "Morality" nor "Lack of Morality" is a "when".

I don't see that either Q&A is at all meaningful, as phrased.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,The Caretaker
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:04 AM

Azizi, obviously the question is too deep for you to answer. Yes, you failed the test because you could not answer the question because it obviously made you uncomfortable. Thanks for participating.

When tolerance becomes endorsement, I believe morality can be jeopardized. And if you have a problem with morality, it is everyone's problem. Sorry, if you again are uncomfortable with this concept. Perhaps you are not as tolerant as you might think you are.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: autolycus
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:05 AM

There's no hard-and-fast dividing line.

So the question, incomprehensible as it looks, can't be definitiely answered.

next question.

oh, endorsement can come in positive and negative forms, like, positively, acting so the what might have been not tolerated is manifestly accepted; negatively, doing nothing; introducing a law one way or the other.

The tolerant response to intolerance is, i suppose, to say, carry on as long as no-one is being harmed or their rights infringed.

I suspect rights occasionally clash, so all liberty for all might be impossible.

On the other hand, if we were all Daoists (formerly known as Taoists, no, not Maoists), well then ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all problems solved.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: John Hardly
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:17 AM

Though I understand the concept (as I condensed it to the pithy "All it takes for evil to prevail..." quote) there are a number of problems with the concept that tolerance may imply endorsement.

Not the least of these problems is that there is not always a meaningful way by which one might express intolerance for some immorality.

It's kinda the flip-side of the dodge that says that unless you are doing something about solving a problem, you are, in effect, part of the problem.

It all sounds believable...until you start to look at it practically and realize that there are SO many things that one might even feel strongly about (as evil or wrong) but that one is in no position to be able to effect a change. The lack of action isn't from "tolerance" or "indifference". The lack of action is from "impotence". And it doesn't disqualify one from talking about it. It's just part of life.

In a democracy one at least has the chance to vote against what they believe is wrong. Well, unless there happens to be another wrong that's worse and is addressed by the opposing candidate.

yup. impotence.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:40 AM

I pick "C"...

I was gonna go with "D" be "C" seems *more* appropriate...

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:52 AM

Christ...I hate these threads.

Why don't you all sit back and listen to yourselves.

"Pseuds corner?" or "circus of the egos?"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:58 AM

Caretaker, your question is not "deep". It is incomplete. Is morality the correct answer... to what?
You need some lessons in forming questions that can be answered and lessons in critical thinking skills.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:59 AM

I can tolerate the smell of "shit" but that doesn't mean I think it beneficial, or to be sought after.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,The Caretaker
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:27 PM

Alice, I took the lessons. You just either lack the morality to answer a clearly presented question, or are just another one who is uncomfortable that it is being asked.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:29 PM

dear Caretaker..please study the following example of a deep question. It may enlighten you.


"If a man were to signify, if he had the POWER, which, being denied him, he were to endeavor anyhow, merely because he don't-would YOU?"

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:44 PM

Ahhhhh, them Philosphy majors do have a way with words, don't they???

But nevermind... I'm still stcikin' with "C"...

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:46 PM

... must have been lessons taken at Bob Jones University.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 12:56 PM

(over in the "On same-sex marriages" thread, Caretaker has revealed his motivation)

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,The Caretaker
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:02 PM

Actually, Bill D, you are off-topic. Why?

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: folk1e
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:10 PM

Bill D,
sorry but by my reading of your "deep question" you have 2 mutually exclusive paramiters!
Eather he does or he doesn't ..... take your pick, but not both at once!
By definition Tolerance means that you oppose something (whether or not you voice your opposition). If you did not oppose it you would be eather in agreement with, or indifferent to it!

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,Michael Savage Fan
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:12 PM

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:13 PM

Bill is not off topic at all.

Subject: RE: BS: On Same-Sex Marriages
From: GUEST,The Caretaker - PM
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 11:08 AM

I agree totally with Guest, Cruz. The masses HERE are in the minority in the real world. Gay marriage is not moral and does
not benefit society, only those who do not want to fit into it. It is where tolerance has gone too far and become endorsement.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:21 PM

not only is Bill on topic...*grin* ...but his "deep question" example was not meant to be clear...it was meant to 'enlighten'. It is from a book on Kierkegaard in which the author uses it as a funny bad example.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:38 PM

Are you talking about personal tolerance or Official (governmental, Institutionalized) tolerance? In the first case, the answer is clearly "not necessarily"; in the second case, the answer must be "yes".

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bee
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 01:49 PM

"When does tolerance become endorsement?

For the Liberal throngs here, is morality the correct answer? Or the lack of it?

Azizi, obviously the question is too deep for you to answer. Yes, you failed the test because you could not answer the question because it obviously made you uncomfortable. Thanks for participating.

When tolerance becomes endorsement, I believe morality can be jeopardized. And if you have a problem with morality, it is everyone's problem. Sorry, if you again are uncomfortable with this concept. Perhaps you are not as tolerant as you might think you are.

Alice, I took the lessons. You just either lack the morality to answer a clearly presented question, or are just another one who is uncomfortable that it is being asked." - our Guest

These words come to mind upon reading: pompous, intolerant, contemptuous, accusatory, dismissive, hidebound, unpleasant, insulting, ignorant... anyone care to add more?

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:02 PM

Pete Seeger put it succinctly. "It's important to get along but not go along".

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:03 PM

presumptuous? offensive? silly?

Rogét, help me!

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Alice
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:07 PM

Guest, if you want people to take your threads seriously, do not post a title and
then ask an incomplete question about the title. If you had studied critical thinking skills,
you would know better than to judge me without enough information to form a
judgement about me (that I'm lacking morality or uncomfortable with a question).

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,no tolerance for fools
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 02:32 PM

i think the fallacy here is that discussing tolerance in such broad sweeping terms. Narrow it down to a few cases, you can probably start a thread on each case and possibly no pair of induhviduals will agree on any two isses.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: autolycus
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 03:16 PM

Guest caretaker also appears to think that morality is a simple concept of a single meaning.

Which morality? Whose morality?

I'd guess from your posts that you'd say I've 'failed' some unnamed test purely because of the questions I've asked.

So my guess that for you, morality is obvious, unquestionable, and 'if we're not with you, we're against you.' The words @Bible' and 'The' spring to mind.






       Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:14 PM

Tolerance does not directly become endorsement. It has to pass through acceptance to get there.

I do not tolerate Fred Phelps.

I tolerate people who display Confederate battle flags, but I don't accept the validity of their reasons for doing so, much less endorse the practice.

I tolerate and accept Republicans, but I certainly don't endorse Republicanism. I am able to accept them because, while I disagree with many of their ideas, I cannot declare them absolutely invalid.

I tolerate, accept and endorse homosexual people living together in committed relationships, and I believe such relationships are entitled to the same rights and protections as their heterosexual counterparts.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:49 PM

Bee-dubya-ell -
If the government tolerates all the things that you say you do, it effectively endorses and legitimatizes them.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,The Caretaker
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 05:53 PM

Alic, I've got you completely pegged. Believe it. And Bill D., you were still off topic. Nice tap dance.

How's this:

I tolerate, accept but do not endorse homosexual people living together in committed relationships, and I believe such relationships are not entitled to the same rights and protections as their heterosexual counterparts.

Whiners, please tolerate this concept. Try. OK?

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 06:16 PM

I'm known for my intricate dance steps....but I'm also known for being able to categorize and identify topics..

oh....and for my belief in the rights of ALL folks who care for each other to decide for themselves who to live with and under what conditions. Your 'belief' that they are not entitled to equality tell me all I need to know about what YOU are known for.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:01 PM

The intitial statement of this thread is a newer softer hook of the Corrupt Christian Evangelical Beievers to help find others to join their hate campaign against : gays, liberals, democrats and any other group that serves as a scape goat for the rightious fanatics of the lord.

I have neighbors who engage in this very argument which usually ends with a comparison of people killing your children in cold blood and gays destroying the American family. They then ask you "Are you going to TOLERATE THAT?!!! (
this is not an exaggeration)

It is a hateful and ridiculous arguement.

These radical Christians should learn to tolerate the COnstitution of the United Sates before they start spouting off about the evils of tolerence.

It is as hateful and ridiculous as when the Nazis did it in 1935.
Allow one dwarf in your community and Bang YOUR Families are destroyed.

Families are destroyed all right but they are harmed by zealots and not folks and folk singers who simply want to live in peace and freedom.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:13 PM

"I tolerate, accept but do not endorse homosexual people living together in committed relationships, and I believe such relationships are not entitled to the same rights and protections as their heterosexual counterparts." the Caretaker (Caretaker of what? Our "morality"?

When you say that you "tolerate" homosexual people living together in committed relationships but do not believe such relationships are entitled to the same rights and protections as their heterosexual counterparts, are you saying that you don't fling torches into their windows? Or are you saying that although they are in "committed relationships" you would not be neighbor to anyone 'like that'?

You know, when - and I firmly believe it will be found to be the truth - homosexual people are found to have chromosonal or other physical differences that cause attraction to one sex and repulsion to the other, I think there are people alive today who are going to be doing a lot of fancy 'splaining'.

Not too long ago, em>your counterparts believed that epilepsy indicated demon possession, Downs Syndrome children were a disgrace that should be hidden in attics and a series of bad breaks were sent by a vengeful god. How about educating yourself now and beating the rush?

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: pdq
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:20 PM

In the last few years, there have been numerous bombings and assasinations carried out by Islamic jihadists. When the victims are from the Christian population, as in France, Germany, Italy, Holland, England and the United States, we see a few imams come out and read a tepid condemnation. It is for public relations only, as they go back inside their mosque and continue to read about a future paradise on Earth where there are only Moslims. In their hearts, the carnage is justified.

Most Muslims tolerate the violence because they tacitly endorse it.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:26 PM

Tolerance becomes endorsement when it is used to enable ideas that the tolerater finds objectionable. Tolerance is not endorsement when used to keep anger at bay.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:28 PM

"Azizi, obviously the question is too deep for you to answer. Yes, you failed the test because you could not answer the question because it obviously made you uncomfortable."

GUEST Caretaker is quite up his own arse, isn't he!

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 07:29 PM

The real question here is WTF are GUESTS allowed to start threads in any section of Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 09:05 PM

If you have decided to tolerate something or someone, then you have already prejudged it or them in a negative fashion.

How about instead not even exercising that sort of prejudgment?

Most people on either side in any war tolerate the violence against those on the other side because they tacitly endorse it.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: GUEST,The Caretaker
Date: 02 Sep 07 - 09:49 PM

Peace said: "GUEST Caretaker is quite up his own arse, isn't he!"
Peace, what does "quite" mean?

And I see many guests start threads here. But only the ones you don't like are you "INTOLERANT of, apparently.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 12:49 AM

In the context that Peace was using I think the word "quite" meant "more than a little". However, I am just offering that to be helpful, so don't take it personally.

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 01:14 AM

When does tolerance become endorsement? If you encounter intolerance or injustice and say nothing, that's endorsement.

If you're bothered by something that really makes no difference and isn't really any of your business and you can't shut up about it, that's intolerance.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: When does tolerance become endorsement?
From: autolycus
Date: 03 Sep 07 - 01:42 AM

I'm thrilled to bits that caretaker, who responds to mosr posters, didn't say anything about mine.





      Ivor